SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 hours ago, Jared P said: This is the full video. What possible purpose would a cut serve in this video? He didn't open the gripper on camera, so a cut would be meaningless, as the gripper wouldn't need to be swapped out at all. He could just start with a manipulated gripper from the beginning, no cut needed. I'm all for finding evidence of fraud in these grippers videos, if such a thing exists, but so far none of it has been convincing, at all. We spent the whole night Russian arguing, defending one point of view or another. And here's what I can say: logically, what Tiziano is doing is absolutely impossible. There are a lot of inconsistencies in the video, sudden acceleration, unsuitable springs in appearance, etc. But all this looks too subjective to give a final conclusion. I was amazed that we, having all the cards in our hands, could not voice a verdict. It's absurd)) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonjoseph Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 18 minutes ago, SeNoLD said: Nikita does not say that Karl is a fraud, he says that such video cannot be counted, because they violate the rules. If you remove the gripper from the frame at 7c, then everyone here will be able to close Coc 4, having enough audacity) My apologies to Nikita, I should not have shoved words in his mouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Let me tell you what I didn't like, in case someone is interested. Let's start with a logical conclusion: Tiziano covers 100kg of RCC from the card. I only do it with 88 kg. That is, he is about 14% stronger than me. I think it's like the difference between me and Vitaly Laletin in terms of finger capabilities. It is impossible to have only strong fingers, especially since Tiziano trains the flexors of the hand. So his brush is also at a very high level. He is also 20mm block stronger than me, which means that the strength of his biceps is also at the highest level. I have a level of about the top 10 of the country in the weight class u110kg in armwrestling. And Tiziano has such a level of strength at a weight of 60kg. This means that right now he can win the World ArmWrestling Championship and qualify for the armfight series, which will make him a world-class star and give him a lot of money, these strength will be enough for the 75 category even. Nevertheless, I saw a video of some guy knocking out his brush. We noticed that Tiziano is at least twice as light as those people who have approached the load that he covers. Tell me, have you seen at least one example of such a difference in power sports in history? Powerlifting? Weightlifting? Or maybe you saw how Prokopchuk beat Levan? Suppose this is the first case in history, OF COURSE, it requires serious confirmations that would be impossible to refute. (Another thing you need to know about the difference in strength depending on weight: the world record in the clean and jerk in the category up to 61kg is 174 kg. I can push more, despite the fact that I have absolutely nothing to do with weightlifting. I'm stronger just because I'm a huge man. It works the same way with a grip.) Next, something that cannot be accurately stated from the video, but against the background of other doubts, it is impossible not to pay attention to it. This is a comparison of our springs when we passed the GMC certification on SE springs. Mine has no gloss and looks thicker. And this is a comparison of springs on Coc 4. I don't use photoshop and counted by pixels. The size of the handles has converged, the size of the spring is smaller. I'm not saying it could be a distortion, but... And this is his Coc 4 vs Coc 3.5 and the size of the springs is the same. I agree, so many questions arise precisely because it seems impossible. I believe that questions should be answered. It's as if I suddenly did a 600kg deadlift right now. I guess at this point I stop following the topic. One of these days I will ask Vano to send me 96kg of RGC for certification in order to regain the first place. And that will be the end of the matter. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 49 minutes ago, SeNoLD said: Nikita does not say that Karl is a fraud That's exactly the opposite! He definitely meant that "Carl is a fraud". People here know how use auto-translate on YouTube or translate Yurkovets's comments under the video. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honk Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 2/3/2024 at 12:13 AM, Alawadhi said: I actually am shocked to see this evidence was needed to make the unelected Tiziano lawyers doubt him. People kept asking @Londonjoseph and others why do you doubt Tiziano. I already gave him my amazing offer (Dubai offer) and he refused. That must be alarming. Heck his weight to strength ratio is out of this world. Guys, to keep it simple, imagine a 60 or 70 KG man claiming to beat Eddie Hall deadlift record or Hussain Rezazadeh / Lasha Talakhadze C&J record. It is that simple. There are no complications. It won't happen unless in a sci-fi future or black magic past. I have been long enough in strength games, around the strongest people to know how strength works, who can achieve what, and who cares to be on a list that a handful of people around the world see. Heck even strong people (like silverback-ex member) who still faked a lift or close when in reality they are strong enough to achieve it with training. Silverback also competed and did very well, but nowhere close to his online videos. Our man is another Gazza, Timmy, or Kinney. Extraordinary strength on video, not so much in real life in front of a credible witness. I have seen it a lot over the years. Never say "oh I had hopes in him because he was our hope to gain more strength". Guys, really -__-' ?! If anyone is too simple to believe this, then stay simple. I (neither anyone else) won't argue with simple Jack. Until then, our man can prove himself if he really wants it and I will publicly apologize, but we know that won't happen. Wow I didn't know all that The thing is, other grip athletes with exceptional strength to body weight ratio proved themselves in competition... ...I'm thinking of Steve Sherwood, Yves Gravelle and Ben Galper. I mean there's been a KK venue for the last few years, what's the problem? Most grip guys are actually excited to meet fellow gripsters and compete with them. And who refuses are free vacation? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, insane.warrior said: That's exactly the opposite! He definitely meant that "Carl is a fraud". People here know how use auto-translate on YouTube or translate Yurkovets's comments under the video. The difference between Russian and English is much wider than translation possibilities. I communicate with Nikita, he is not a fool and understands Karl's capabilities perfectly well. The point is that such an ugly video shooting gives HIM the OPPORTUNITY TO BE a FRAUD, which is unacceptable for such an event and such an athlete. Although, to be fair, Nikita doubts the GHP 10 measurements. But these are the features of everyone, I also sent my expanders to him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, SeNoLD said: The difference between Russian and English is much wider than translation possibilities. I communicate with Nikita, he is not a fool and understands Karl's capabilities perfectly well. The point is that such an ugly video shooting gives HIM the OPPORTUNITY TO BE a FRAUD, which is unacceptable for such an event and such an athlete. Although, to be fair, Nikita doubts the GHP 10 measurements. But these are the features of everyone, I also sent my expanders to him) I know russian language perfectly, lol. I fully understand what he was saying or writing. He stated multiple times that such a powerful close of GHP 10 is not achievable and that is a bullsh*t. The words and intonations he used do not speak of his friendly but skeptical attitude, but rather of envy and hidden hatred. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, insane.warrior said: I know russian language perfectly, lol. I fully understand what he was saying or writing. He stated multiple times that such a powerful close of GHP 10 is not achievable and that is a bullsh*t. The words and intonations he used do not speak of his friendly but skeptical attitude, but rather of envy and hidden hatred. Oh, I was talking about Coc 4 certification. I don't share his opinion here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Vano confirmed that the spring is different. Upon closer inspection, cracks were found between the coils of the spring, which are very different from the original. Through these slits is his flag. GMC certification has been revoked. I think there is no more unbiased judge than Vano. The end. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martincerven Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 23 minutes ago, SeNoLD said: Vano confirmed that the spring is different. Upon closer inspection, cracks were found between the coils of the spring, which are very different from the original. Through these slits is his flag. GMC certification has been revoked. I think there is no more unbiased judge than Vano. The end. Wasn’t that cert few months ago? How come he only found something on spring now? And can he post pictures of the “cracks” or differences? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Yes, I see that the GM gripper has a different spring. The glossiness and difference in thickness isn't just from lighting or a different angle. Also the stamps on the handles are aligned differently. I am now convinced there's trickery with the grippers. There are still a lot of questions about how he pulled off the other closes and attempts, but I have no problem admitting he absolutely fooled me. I was nowhere near as invested or concerned about it to inspect his videos to this level due to the percieved level of strength displayed on the grippers sent to him by Carl, but I appreciate the perspective from those who were. Being 2nd place or surpassed by someone who seems to have cheated sucks, so when you finally get the evidence, it must be acted upon. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 30 minutes ago, martincerven said: Wasn’t that cert few months ago? How come he only found something on spring now? And can he post pictures of the “cracks” or differences? I thought this was part of Ivan’s initial support though? Ivan contacted me saying that him and Vano went over this thoroughly and that he wanted permission to publish emails from Vano that confirmed the gripper was intact and the cert could not have been faked. “He is the most strict judge” was the defense then too. I’m not saying anything here except that I don’t understand how this played out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Cannon said: I thought this was part of Ivan’s initial support though? Ivan contacted me saying that him and Vano went over this thoroughly and that he wanted permission to publish emails from Vano that confirmed the gripper was intact and the cert could not have been faked. “He is the most strict judge” was the defense then too. I’m not saying anything here except that I don’t understand how this played out. It’s not so strange IMO. They could’ve missed it the first time. And upon later inspection found evidence of foul play. I myself looked at another of Tiz’s gripper closes just now and noticed a similar gap in the spring on another video. It was only visible for a split second. Very easy for a referee to miss. But it’s clearly there. Some springs will have such a gap. But if the particular cert-gripper does not have such gap. But the gripper in the video does. Well then that’s a clear indication that the springs were swapped. Edited February 5 by David_wigren 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 And I’m only asking this because I don’t know much about the GM certification. The gloss is credibly fresh oil to me. These are both new Titanium grippers. The sheen has a slimming effect in my opinion. But how does the GM cert work? Is the claim that Tiziano swapped the handles to a different spring and then put them back? All in a way that Vano could not tell under heavy scrutiny with Ivan, but then could tell months later when asked to look again? My main question here is I don’t understand how this GM cert thing played out. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, Cannon said: And I’m only asking this because I don’t know much about the GM certification. The gloss is credibly fresh oil to me. These are both new Titanium grippers. The sheen has a slimming effect in my opinion. But how does the GM cert work? Is the claim that Tiziano swapped the handles to a different spring and then put them back? All in a way that Vano could not tell under heavy scrutiny with Ivan, but then could tell months later when asked to look again? My main question here is I don’t understand how this GM cert thing played out. Oil would not cause a gap in the spring where there was none before though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) While looking at previous posts, I immediately thought about certification requiring spring measurements. And after watching all three GHP certification videos, I noticed that Tiziano never showed the top of the handles where the spring is inserted in (screenshot from Carl's cert, clearly showing the top of the handle). In order to fake those calliper measures, a person can wind something thin, barely noticeable from afar that the measurement will show the corresponding value of the diameter on the "locally thickened" spring, e.g. certifying on GHP 7 with GHP 8 sticker + winded thin thread, cellophane tape, you name it, on the spring. This is definitely an assumption, not an accusation, but something to note. Perhaps well documented measurements should become part of all certifications. Edited February 5 by insane.warrior 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 14 minutes ago, David_wigren said: Oil would not cause a gap in the spring where there was none before though. No, I agree with that. I’m still just not clear what is being claimed about the GM certification. So is this what is being claimed: 1) Vano sends the gripper to Tiziano. 2) Tiziano takes the spring off in a way that “causes cracks and gaps”. 3) Tizano manufactures a thinner spring that still fits in the handles, but makes a misstep to add a glossy coating 4) Certifies on the fake 5) Changes it all back and returns the gripper to Vano 6) Vano confirms for Ivan there was 100% no foul play. Nothing amiss. 7) Months later Vano is asked to check again and finds gaps and cracks. Let’s say all that happened. Aren’t the handles pinned? What about removing the spring would cause gaps and cracks? Having worked with springs extensively, I cannot think of how either of those things could happen. I’m not sure I could make a gap in a heavy spring even if I wanted to. I’m not arguing for anything here, I am just struggling to understand the content of this claim. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 25 minutes ago, Cannon said: And I’m only asking this because I don’t know much about the GM certification. The gloss is credibly fresh oil to me. These are both new Titanium grippers. The sheen has a slimming effect in my opinion. But how does the GM cert work? Is the claim that Tiziano swapped the handles to a different spring and then put them back? All in a way that Vano could not tell under heavy scrutiny with Ivan, but then could tell months later when asked to look again? My main question here is I don’t understand how this GM cert thing played out. Vano sent Tiziano a grip measured to one hundred grams. Tiziano took it out of the package, measured it (he has a calibrator), photographed the position of the handles, etc. Then he took off the handles, put them on his spring and packed them back into the parcel. He filmed the video certification, returned the handles to their place and set them clearly in accordance with the first measurements so that Vano would not find any differences. And so it happened. Now it took us two days to find significant discrepancies, because visually the size and color of the spring may differ depending on lighting and other factors. Tiziano gave only a gap in the coils of the spring. He was well prepared, but he was wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, SeNoLD said: Vano sent Tiziano a grip measured to one hundred grams. Tiziano took it out of the package, measured it (he has a calibrator), photographed the position of the handles, etc. Then he took off the handles, put them on his spring and packed them back into the parcel. He filmed the video certification, returned the handles to their place and set them clearly in accordance with the first measurements so that Vano would not find any differences. And so it happened. Now it took us two days to find significant discrepancies, because visually the size and color of the spring may differ depending on lighting and other factors. Tiziano gave only a gap in the coils of the spring. He was well prepared, but he was wrong. So you are saying the gap is on the fake spring which was used in the certification video? The clarification is that Vano did not find the gap on the gripper in his possession. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, SeNoLD said: Vano confirmed that the spring is different. Upon closer inspection, cracks were found between the coils of the spring, which are very different from the original. Through these slits is his flag. GMC certification has been revoked. I think there is no more unbiased judge than Vano. The end. Where was this still taken from the video? Like what time stamp? Was the gripper under any pressure at all? When you close any gripper, there is deflection in the top coils where they open up. This happens even when gaps cannot be observed otherwise. If the gripper is under any pressure it should not be compared to the static position in terms of looking for differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 minutes ago, Cannon said: Where was this still taken from the video? Like what time stamp? Was the gripper under any pressure at all? When you close any gripper, there is deflection in the top coils where they open up. This happens even when gaps cannot be observed otherwise. If the gripper is under any pressure it should not be compared to the static position in terms of looking for differences. There are no such gaps on Vano's gripper. This is from the 86rgc certification video, it doesn't open for me right now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, SeNoLD said: There are no such gaps on Vano's gripper. This is from the 86rgc certification video, it doesn't open for me right now Thank you that answers my question. The larger frame also shows that the gripper was not under pressure. What is the paper through the spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, Cannon said: Thank you that answers my question. The larger frame also shows that the gripper was not under pressure. What is the paper through the spring? Some kind of note from Vano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, SeNoLD said: Some kind of note from Vano And Vano feels it’s possible to transfer that to the fake spring and back without evidence of tampering? It could be moved without being broken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, Cannon said: And Vano feels it’s possible to transfer that to the fake spring and back without evidence of tampering? It could be moved without being broken? I don't think it's any more difficult than opening the package unnoticed. Perhaps this thing just comes off like a Band-Aid and is glued repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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