DoctorOfCrush Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 37 minutes ago, Cannon said: No, I agree with that. I’m still just not clear what is being claimed about the GM certification. So is this what is being claimed: 1) Vano sends the gripper to Tiziano. 2) Tiziano takes the spring off in a way that “causes cracks and gaps”. 3) Tizano manufactures a thinner spring that still fits in the handles, but makes a misstep to add a glossy coating 4) Certifies on the fake 5) Changes it all back and returns the gripper to Vano 6) Vano confirms for Ivan there was 100% no foul play. Nothing amiss. 7) Months later Vano is asked to check again and finds gaps and cracks. Let’s say all that happened. Aren’t the handles pinned? What about removing the spring would cause gaps and cracks? Having worked with springs extensively, I cannot think of how either of those things could happen. I’m not sure I could make a gap in a heavy spring even if I wanted to. I’m not arguing for anything here, I am just struggling to understand the content of this claim. With how involved all of this sounds, it's high time I remove 'Fake a gripper cert' from my bucket list. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) I think these GMC grippers are adjustable by design to order the specific RGC you desire. Edited February 5 by insane.warrior 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 11 minutes ago, insane.warrior said: I think these GMC grippers are adjustable by design to order the specific RGC you desire. This is what I recalled about them as well, so it would be quite easy to switch the spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, dubyagrip said: This is what I recalled about them as well, so it would be quite easy to switch the spring. The main difficulty was to put the spring exactly the same as it was at the time of sending 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, SeNoLD said: I don't think it's any more difficult than opening the package unnoticed. Perhaps this thing just comes off like a Band-Aid and is glued repeatedly. Okay. Thank you again for the replies. Thinking through all these details is important for your claim. For example in this case we have an apparent tamper-evident safeguard which is not acting to detect evidence of tampering. Since the grippers were adjustable, it would make sense the paper was inextricable from the spring and identifies the spring as the correct one. Was that the intention? But maybe the paper was only meant to be a protection against a heated spring where it would get burned up in the process (I have thought about doing this for certs). But if it could be easily taken off and put back on then it wouldn’t protect against heating at all. Maybe it was not meant to be anything. Maybe it was just a note. The gap is a compelling thing. But if the paper was meant to identify the spring in any reliable way, how is it there? Again, only asking questions to understand how this certification worked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashmonster268 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 This is a fascinating thread! The level of thought and effort that went into faking at least this cert is mind boggling to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 And why? He hires an expensive strength coach, cheats in a complicated way and misses details that seem very obvious. For what? There's is no Nike endorsement or picture on a Wheaties box waiting. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, Mashmonster268 said: This is a fascinating thread! The level of thought and effort that went into faking at least this cert is mind boggling to me. It just feels like too much to be the final answer. Maybe there are good questions like the gap, but all of it together is awfully implausible. Citing the scale problem is honestly a better argument for general deception (if the scale problem will remain unexplained). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 22 minutes ago, Cannon said: Okay. Thank you again for the replies. Thinking through all these details is important for your claim. For example in this case we have an apparent tamper-evident safeguard which is not acting to detect evidence of tampering. Since the grippers were adjustable, it would make sense the paper was inextricable from the spring and identifies the spring as the correct one. Was that the intention? But maybe the paper was only meant to be a protection against a heated spring where it would get burned up in the process (I have thought about doing this for certs). But if it could be easily taken off and put back on then it wouldn’t protect against heating at all. Maybe it was not meant to be anything. Maybe it was just a note. The gap is a compelling thing. But if the paper was meant to identify the spring in any reliable way, how is it there? Again, only asking questions to understand how this certification worked. No, Vano just marked the load of the expander on this paper so as not to confuse anything during shipment. It was fastened with duct tape. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, SeNoLD said: No, Vano just marked the load of the expander on this paper so as not to confuse anything during shipment. It was fastened with duct tape. Okay, thank you for your time. I appreciate the clarifications. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Allen Heineck said: And why? He hires an expensive strength coach, cheats in a complicated way and misses details that seem very obvious. For what? There's is no Nike endorsement or picture on a Wheaties box waiting. For ego/status/impressing people, probably women? Maybe he wants everyone in Italy to think he is the coolest strongest guy there, and found a system he could be in control enough to cheat without anybody familiar with grip strength being present. Italy is pretty far away from where most of us live, it would be a big ordeal for someone to visit or show up unannounced. His real strength is probably pretty weak or average, and instead of training hard, accepting failures and a slower progress rate, he chose cheating, thinking he was smart enough and everyone else was stupid enough to fall for it forever. Not out of the ordinary for narcissistic personality traits. People will cheat for much less It's Monday now so maybe he's found an electrician to modify the scale so he can finally post a video of it As far as hiring a coach let's say he can close a 2 or 2.5, he would still need base levels strength to close ordinary grippers with fake handles on them, or it could be for show too Edited February 5 by C8Myotome 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, C8Myotome said: For ego/status/impressing people, probably women? Maybe he wants everyone in Italy to think he is the coolest strongest guy there No one cares or even knows about this stuff outside of our community man lol I don't believe he does grip for the chicks, cheating or not. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashmonster268 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 12 minutes ago, dubyagrip said: No one cares or even knows about this stuff outside of our community man lol I don't believe he does grip for the chicks, cheating or not. @dubyagripSpeak for yourself man, I'm swimming in ladies ever since my 2005 COC #3 cert! 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorOfCrush Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 14 minutes ago, dubyagrip said: No one cares or even knows about this stuff outside of our community man lol I don't believe he does grip for the chicks, cheating or not. That’s another t-shirt right there. “I grip for the chicks” 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, dubyagrip said: No one cares or even knows about this stuff outside of our community man lol I don't believe he does grip for the chicks, cheating or not. People cheat in online chess at 300 elo. The thrill of being a "winner" is intoxicating to some. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, bruce1337 said: People cheat in online chess at 300 elo. The thrill of being a "winner" is intoxicating to some. Oh I'm well aware, i just wanted to use the grip for the chicks line. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith513 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, dubyagrip said: Oh I'm well aware, i just wanted to use the grip for the chicks line. I usually ask them if they want to see my inch. 1 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Lol ok let's keep it above the line, folks. The comedic relief was refreshing though. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 There are so many nuances and factors in all of this. It really is a fascinating topic. - I feel like much of the discourse with Tiziano gets lost in translation, in combination with some immaturity and ego. I don't say that to insult him; I consider him a friend regardless, or at least intend to treat him that way. I've talked with him in detail the past 48 hours, and he doesn't seem to ever be able to understand why anyone would want further proof, despite me trying to convince him over and over. He sees it all as a personal attack, rather than genuine inquisitiveness to verify his abilities in a positive way. (This is just me reporting how things are stated, not stating what I personally believe, as you will see later in this message. I intend to be as unbiased and objective as possible here.) - He views his two Instagram live streams with GripBoard members as evidence, where he supposedly showed everything in detail, and answered all critical questions people had, and showed all of his equipment (I wasn't aware of these live streams, and did not see them, if they existed. Just reporting what he has said). He thinks no one will ever believe him, even if they witnessed him in person. I've tried to explain to him that this is irrational. He also said GBI has already visited him and watched him perform in person. - He invites basically anyone reputable from the board to his home, including Chez. You'll have to get with him personally for his address, if you so desire to visit him, and if he actually lets anyone visit in reality. - Tiziano already has a longtime girlfriend, and most women notoriously couldn't care less about grippers, unless they are personally involved in the sport. Not buying the 'trying to pick up chicks' motive. - Ego and narcissism is a more likely motive, but I'm not here to ridicule the guy. But this is a weird motive also. The hyperion gripper video has 141 views, and 99% of those views are just us watching for the supposed video splice in the past two days. Who in their right mind would go through the hassle of altering a random gripper none of us care about, to get 141 views from people whose opinion he's said he literally doesn't value? Not saying someone wouldn't ever do this, but the motive would be so strange. This is like performing a Mission Impossible level heist in order to steal a single q-tip from Walgreens. - But the glossy spring in the GM certification video is interesting. Is this spring and gripper for the 95kg cert the same exact spring and gripper that was sent to David Shamey for his 94.5kg cert, just with the handles mounted slightly deeper - or an entirely different gripper? - Another element of course is the very world record claim itself, the CCS of 221 rgc. Most have said this is physically impossible, though I think they mean highly improbable. Impossible denotes that it breaks the laws of physics, which I'm not sure anyone here, or anywhere, could provide such a mathematical proof that would validate that claim. But yes, this is highly improbable. I made a post in another thread detailing just how crazy this level of strength would be; exactly 2x the strength to bodyweight ratio of Carl (1.50 vs. 0.75), which at the very least is extremely hard to believe, and highly unlikely. Maybe indeed impossible, though probably not provably so. - Finally, let's examine his trajectory in the sport. On September 5, 2022 he posted his ability to do 4 mms reps on a CoC 3. The next day, September 6, 2022, his GHP 7 certification was posted, which actually took place on September 4. He could barely get the GHP 7 closed (average rating of 147 rgc), which I believe is an accurate assessment of the situation. Almost exactly two months later, on November 16, 2022, he posted that he could now close a CoC 4 rated 201 lbs rgc. To me, this is the ultimate smoking gun in the situation. It isn't conclusive as tangible evidence of fraud, but it is simply not believable, without extreme proof and witnesses supporting it. - On a somewhat unrelated note, speaking of chess, which I am very fond of, the current situation in the game is that all of the top GMs have basically turned on each other, with more cheat accusations coming out almost daily. In about two years time, it went from full trust, to the Spiderman pointing meme. Kramnik is accusing Hikaru, Magnus of Hans, Ian and MVL accusing Jospem and Lazavik just this week, etc. It seems like in an increasingly digital world, with more avenues of cheating made available, trust will continue to degrade. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I agree a 221 rgc CCS with this body type is physically impossible, good job making the timeline Jared, everything past the GHP7 cert is when i lost trust in him. If you went from GHP7 to 221 RGC you would probably be posting PR's once hitting the 160s, for 1 rep then 2 then 3..same for 170 180 190 etc, there was never any of that, nobody will ever make that progress in 2 months, like picking up a summer hobby. He has the forearm mass of barely a tennis player at best. I know the forearm anatomy, I've dissected it on a human and been tested on it. Grippers primarily use the flexor digitorum profundus and superficialis, on strong grip guys there becomes some noticeable bowing of the forearm muscles as all that muscle mass has to grow in there making the muscle wider, as the muscle is obviously not going to grow longer. His only noticeable muscle is on the proximal half of the forearm with literally nothing on the distal half, showing he has pretty much no hypertrophy of any of his wrist flexor/extensor/deviation muscles at all, there's just nothing there, how would he ever have the wrist stability to do 221 RGC without his arm shaking like having a seizure. In this picture he has no noticeable hypertrophy of the wrist or finger extensors and looks like he trains biceps more than forearms. The muscle mass is simply just not there to be doing any of the supposed feats. He has the forearm muscle of a con man. There are teenagers with bigger forearms than that 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Also, I just noticed this piece of tape, or whatever it is, on the left side of the spring above the handle. This is from his original CoC 4 201 lbs post. That's pretty weird. I've never seen anything like that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mashmonster268 said: This is a fascinating thread! The level of thought and effort that went into faking at least this cert is mind boggling to me. 7 minutes ago, Jared P said: Also, I just noticed this piece of tape, or whatever it is, on the left side of the spring above the handle. This is from his original CoC 4 201 lbs post. That's pretty weird. I've never seen anything like that before. Just an identifier most likely. Some use wire ties. I've seen electrical tape. It's not some form of tampering. Just a way to distinguish his stuff from someone else's. Edited February 5 by Allen Heineck No real edit, just a quote mishap somehow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, Jared P said: Also, I just noticed this piece of tape, or whatever it is, on the left side of the spring above the handle. This is from his original CoC 4 201 lbs post. That's pretty weird. I've never seen anything like that before. Its common for people who choke grippers and dont want the spring damaged. Just my 2 cents on the tape. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, bruce1337 said: Its common for people who choke grippers and dont want the spring damaged. Just my 2 cents on the tape. A choker on the spring is uncommon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorOfCrush Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Allen Heineck said: A choker on the spring is uncommon. He might be referring to this style: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts