Jared P Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 You may want to go back and re-read what I wrote. I'm not quite sure you understood. I say that with sincerity, not to mock you. Cheers dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonjoseph Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 minute ago, Jared P said: You may want to go back and re-read what I wrote. I'm not quite sure you understood. I say that with sincerity, not to mock you. Cheers dude. I read it perfectly fine. Just pointing out that some men believe in things others would consider impossible. Nothing wrong with that, to a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matek Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I think I've never commented on the topic, but here is what I think. Let's assume Tiziano is/was faking his gripper closes. He is either a master video editor or has incredible sleight of hand (modifying the grippers is another option of course, but he returned grippers to Vano and Carl, etc.). There is a reason why he is being discussed for long now. The "proofs" that he is a cheater is that 1. he never performed his closes infront of a trusted person, 2. refused to go to a foreign country (he would have been reimbursed, but still), and 3. that what he is doing is 'unbelievable' (or impossible, but I don't know enough about biology/anatomy to make this claim). My point is that although all of these are suspicious, neither of these is conclusive. So, at this point, there are still a lot of people who believe Tiziano's closes. Then this pro magician/editor makes this silly mistake about the scale. This is so amateur. He probably understands that everybody agrees that "once a cheater...", and from now, nothing can be taken seriously from him. But how did this con artist make such a mistake multiple times? Did he get careless with editing/manipulating the scale? Because compared to his other "feats" this would have been a piece of cake. Now let's assume Tiziano is not/was not faking his gripper closes. If I were him, it would bother me a lot that many people call me a cheater. I would go to a comp in Italy, and even if I didn't compete, I would close a few grippers in front of other people there, let them take videos, etc. But anyway, let's say he has his reasons. He can't leave home, he can't abandon his job, he doesn't have enough money to travel, whatever. If he is/was cheating with the scale on purpose, I won't believe anything from him, and you shouldn't either. And now I'm assuming he genuinely did those gripper closes. So two scenarios: 1. The scale is malfunctioning, measuring in kg, but showing lbs. Unlikely, but possible of course. Now if this is the case, he needs to document this very well, with another person (calibrated weights, the other person taking and uploading the video, etc.). 2. He didn't realize it was lb. The biggest problem with this is not even that you need to be dumb for this, but this would make Tiziano a weak gripster. But this contradicts our premise; he is closing 4s. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 24 minutes ago, Londonjoseph said: I read it perfectly fine. Just pointing out that some men believe in things others would consider impossible. Nothing wrong with that, to a point Clearly there isn't much synergy of thought taking place here, due to the nature of your responses. Not much can be done in the way of advancing such a conversation, should failure of reading comprehension persist. But I'll make a final attempt, for your sake: You're conflating hesitancy of accusation, with blind belief, when the reality of the situation was vocalized skepticism waiting for tangible evidence prior to accusation. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 12 minutes ago, Jared P said: Clearly there isn't much synergy of thought taking place here, due to the nature of your responses. Not much can be done in the way of advancing such a conversation, should failure of reading comprehension persist. But I'll make a final attempt, for your sake: You're conflating hesitancy of accusation, with blind belief, when the reality of the situation was vocalized skepticism waiting for tangible evidence prior to accusation. I think it'd be good for you and @Londonjoseph to continue this phase of your conversation in private messages. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I think the people who supported Tiziano are just being good hearted and supportive. But that’s a stretch to do that with claims of strength like this. Even holding judgement until proven guilty is not going to make him prove it without a shadow of a doubt, because it’s too easy for him to get the praise. it’s okay to reserve judgment, too. but strong isn’t a small man’s game…that’s just the way it is…unless it’s against other men who are around the same. I could say in my opinion, just like anyone else can, whether I think he’s a fraud or legitimate…I’d say, a 221 pound no.4 close for a small guy like that is impossible. Is that being negative? Well…perhaps, but he is the one putting that here for me to see and be impressed with. Why can’t I go the other way? the First experience I think we all had was the 201 no.4 close. Which he could not produce that gripper because his friend wouldn’t allow. then you had his coach backing up his claims, which I’m sure sold a lot of people on his legitimacy. Although I’ve never seen Sam backing up his no.4 close? When pushed to prove himself beyond what he showed, he claimed he was injured…that happened twice. The only sus close I seen was maybe the GHP 9 or something like that he visibly helped back open with his left thumb. other than that, you cannot see anything out of the ordinary. The scale? just another thing that brings more doubt and questions. If the scale is correct, the weight must be fake plates or something like that…seems like a pretty big stack to only be 142 lbs! On the one lift I watched. I thought we were done with this one but he loves the camera. Bruce did some fine work though! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 19 minutes ago, slazbob said: a 221 pound no.4 close for a small guy like that is impossible. I'd be curious to see if a study exists, or simply the raw physics, that precisely calculates (or roughly estimates) the maximum possible crushing grip force that could be exerted relative to body mass or weight, presumably with a dynamometer. Perhaps a question that Ivan, Derek, or matek could answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 That is also an element working against Tiziano, that he has made no attempt to get on the GM-150 dynamometer records list, despite doing the GM gripper certification. GM-150 dyno records relative to bodyweight: https://grippermania.ru/gm150/ranking#m-rel GMC gripper records relative to bodyweight: https://grippermania.ru/gmc/ranking#bs-rel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matek Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 26 minutes ago, Jared P said: I'd be curious to see if a study exists, or simply the raw physics, that precisely calculates (or roughly estimates) the maximum possible crushing grip force that could be exerted relative to body mass or weight, presumably with a dynamometer. Perhaps a question that Ivan, Derek, or matek could answer. Even if this is possible, I'm not your man. Even with a somewhat good estimation of the cross-sectional area of the relevant muscles and using the specific tension highest possible for humans, there are just way too many variables (not just about muscle force). After a very complex model we would get something which is still very simplified to be conclusive about the physiological limit. But Derek is far more knowledgeable about this topic than me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, slazbob said: The scale? just another thing that brings more doubt and questions. If the scale is correct, the weight must be fake plates or something like that…seems like a pretty big stack to only be 142 lbs! On the one lift I watched. I thought we were done with this one but he loves the camera. Bruce did some fine work though! Stacks can easily be made to look bigger than they are. I believe most of the weights are bumper plates. The image attached is a rough calculation on the plate math. If we assume the largest plate is 20kg bumper, the the two above (which are thinner) can be estimated to 15kg. The top plate could be either 5 or 10kg. Below the 20kg is one very thin bumper (because of the rough matt texture) we assume to be 5kg plus the bottom plate is part of the loading pin of unknown weight. Total weight is 60-75kg (130-165 lbs) Even if I were to give Tiziano the benefit of the doubt and assume all plates were 20kg, it would total 120kg including the loading pin. So something is off here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiziano Becchio Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Guys, go read the old treads, talk about just one quick and easy test to do, Phrase heard at least 10,12 times, the other times I satisfied you, the result? A temporary false estimate, waiting to attack as soon as I've made half a misstep, I'm simply no longer interested in all this. The only accusation that made sense in recent years was a blurry screenshot on a scale, Could I disprove everything in a few seconds? Yes. Would it really do any good? No. We even watch the second hand in the ironmind video blurring for two seconds. Would it all be fake? Are Carl myrescot or holle's tettings also my accomplices? ironmind, GMC? Grappling friends with whom I have trained or played live? Did I manipulate them live too? The only regret I have is that I was too helpful and kind to some of you Lenninx and London above all. Ps I invited Bader to my house. to sleep and eat at my expense. not in the hotel with a possible refund if I had closed on the 4th and he didn't come. So here too you invent stories that you don't even know exist. So I close by saying that I no longer care what you think, am I the strongest man of all time? or the biggest scam? You'll never know. I can't unsubscribe from this site @cannon If you please ban me or remove me you will do me a favor, thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennix Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 28 minutes ago, Tiziano Becchio said: Guys, go read the old treads, talk about just one quick and easy test to do, Phrase heard at least 10,12 times, the other times I satisfied you, the result? A temporary false estimate, waiting to attack as soon as I've made half a misstep, I'm simply no longer interested in all this. The only accusation that made sense in recent years was a blurry screenshot on a scale, Could I disprove everything in a few seconds? Yes. Would it really do any good? No. We even watch the second hand in the ironmind video blurring for two seconds. Would it all be fake? Are Carl myrescot or holle's tettings also my accomplices? ironmind, GMC? Grappling friends with whom I have trained or played live? Did I manipulate them live too? The only regret I have is that I was too helpful and kind to some of you Lenninx and London above all. Ps I invited Bader to my house. to sleep and eat at my expense. not in the hotel with a possible refund if I had closed on the 4th and he didn't come. So here too you invent stories that you don't even know exist. So I close by saying that I no longer care what you think, am I the strongest man of all time? or the biggest scam? You'll never know. I can't unsubscribe from this site @cannon If you please ban me or remove me you will do me a favor, thank you very much. I mean, I have always been clear with that I think you have done something to those grippers I just never figured out what. There's no reason not to be kind in any direction I have never treated you wrong. But I sure have scrutinised your videos and seen oddities with every accomplishments you have done. From not opening the gripper handles, to lifting on the non chalked areas on blob/axle and that whole thing with cutting the videos before releasing the blob. So much wierd stuff and then we see on all your recent wr lifts that the scale is on lbs and that there's a bright light directly above it which for sure is no coincidence. You tried to hide the marker. When I record grip feats I'm always super super scared that the camera will miss the weight on the scale and I will be filming it for way way to long. You are doing world records and it looks like your scared of the numbers on the scale. Just briefly showing it and then going away from it. You are claiming to be the strongest guy in the world and when you get questioned with these "questions/accusations" your reaction is to quit. If I were questioned about any lift I ever done, I would gladly do anything to show whatever is needed for them to believe. To be completely honest, I don't want you to quit grip. I want you to stop with the wierd stuff. Just quit it, start lifting with the regular weights you have on the wall and not the unmarked weights. Start lifting on the chalked side of the blobs and the axle. Keep wearing your tank top and not some sketchy long armed sleeve. And start doing world records for your class and not for the 120+ class. Because then I will start to applaud your progress and strength. That will also mean you can go to competitions and compete and have fun in the community. Because you obviously care alot about our sport, and we would love to see you compete and do well. But we don't want people that cheat. Also, since its taking this much time to correct us on the LBS accusations, I'm sure you are trying to find a way to fix the scale. Don't bother, if it was just a grafic mistake you would have already shown us. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonjoseph Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Regardless of any video posted from here on out, I don't have any reason to believe. There would just be more tampering. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 (edited) @Tiziano Becchio Why do you intentionally hide the scale units? Why does your scale appear to show all units in 'lb'? Why can't you easily rectify these claims with a simple weighing and unit clarification? Why do you hide behind words and rhetoric instead of addressing the question at hand? Blurry screenshot on a scale? You can see in clear HD that the unit marker is not where the 'kg' should be (despite your obvious attempts to hide it). So either you scale is broken or you are lying. You can set the record straight or come clean and perhaps save some dignity. The grip community wont alienate you. In fact you will gain some respect for being honest and you could continue your training. And perhaps win record in your weight class. You are clearly dedicated. You bought a lot of grip tool which aren't cheap. A PR is a PR whether it's 50kg or 200kg. And we as a community will congratulate you for your progress so long as your honest; and not just to us, but to yourself as well. Edited February 3 by bruce1337 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiziano Becchio Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Lennix there are videos in my profile where I show the Blobs after having also raised them on the chalk side. So we come to a point There are records I have made that are indisputable like the 130 in v bar ghp8 41kg Pinch block 33 kg hub etc because they were made live Others indisputable because they were made with the same scrupulous procedures and with HD videos in the case of ironmind even two videos not just one, in their possession, GMC 95 kg GMC 83 kg the same thing as ironmind. Put your soul at peace on this. All the rest? Coc 4, blob, the latest Rises, do we want to question them? OK no problem These are dubious raises Don't take them at face value I stole When I post you can enjoy the video and consider it valid or not When I travel for competitions if we meet you will be able to see me and I you Until then I owe no further explanations except to the judges or to those who certify me I have given you many and they are there for all to see, as are the next uprisings etc. I'm not asking to be believed, it's your choice I think spending time, for example, seeing if a hand on a wall clock blurs for two seconds To try to get me to remove a certification for example is one of the craziest I've seen here among the many seen. I hope I have been clear to everyone. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennix Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 5 minutes ago, Tiziano Becchio said: Lennix there are videos in my profile where I show the Blobs after having also raised them on the chalk side. So we come to a point There are records I have made that are indisputable like the 130 in v bar ghp8 41kg Pinch block 33 kg hub etc because they were made live Others indisputable because they were made with the same scrupulous procedures and with HD videos in the case of ironmind even two videos not just one, in their possession, GMC 95 kg GMC 83 kg the same thing as ironmind. Put your soul at peace on this. All the rest? Coc 4, blob, the latest Rises, do we want to question them? OK no problem These are dubious raises Don't take them at face value I stole When I post you can enjoy the video and consider it valid or not When I travel for competitions if we meet you will be able to see me and I you Until then I owe no further explanations except to the judges or to those who certify me I have given you many and they are there for all to see, as are the next uprisings etc. I'm not asking to be believed, it's your choice I think spending time, for example, seeing if a hand on a wall clock blurs for two seconds To try to get me to remove a certification for example is one of the craziest I've seen here among the many seen. I hope I have been clear to everyone. I really hope we meet at a competition and as I said multiple times before, you are welcome anyone of us gripnerds in Sweden if you have the chance and I hope your gym is available if anyone of us goes to Italy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 10 hours ago, Londonjoseph said: I read it perfectly fine. Just pointing out that some men believe in things others would consider impossible. Nothing wrong with that, to a point No, I think I understand why Jared says you didn't understand what he was saying: No one is saying we believed in Tiziano. We are saying we chose not to expressly accuse him of fraud. It is different. There is a certain civility about granting a presumption of validity to people's claims, even if you don't truly believe them, while scrutinizing the proof. It's a similar principle to the presumption of innocence in criminal law (my field of practice). Indeed, I am a prosecutor, and my job is to convict people (well, since I do appeals, they were already convicted and my job is to argue that the convictions were valid). But those convictions are based on evidence that overcame the presumption of innocence. Even as the prosecutor, I grant the defendant the presumption of innocence until the evidence establishes otherwise. It does not mean I did not believe he was guilty. I just presumed he was not until proven he was. Same with Tiziano. I accepted the feats not because I truly believed in him, but because I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he posted videos of his feats, which is what we usually require of others, until convincing evidence of fraud was exposed. And I think that is all that Jared was saying. Not that he believed it, but that he would give the benefit of the doubt until the evidence of fraud came out. And so it did: the scale with the weight set to pounds while claiming the lifts were in kilograms is powerful evidence of fraud, and Tiziano is deflecting by saying "Hey, look at my other videos where you didn't catch any evidence of fraud" instead of saying "Your analysis of this scale is mistaken, let me show you" -- which would be so easy, if he really could lift the weight. Now we can all agree that he faked at least those videos with the scale trick, and make inferences about what that means about his other videos in which we were not able to see the fraud, and move on. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I see above that Tiziano has asked to be removed from the GripBoard, which is one possibility if Cannon can do that. I actually liked @Lennix's suggestion better: How about Tiziano just fesses up, maybe even apologizes for wasting people's time and lying, and starts working toward being his own true best instead of making ridiculous claims that virtually begged people to look for a mistake that Tiziano inevitably eventually made? This community is one of the only ones where you could get away with this nonsense and still be accepted. I'd be happy to accept his apology and welcome him back. He's young, and above average in strength for his size even if he's lifting in pounds what he claimed he lifted in kilos. So he can be a weight-class contender. But at this point I don't think a scale explanation video is going to mean anything, as he could easily have done that right away if he were capable of the lifts, instead of after a day or two of indignant stalling while he figures out a new fake. If you want to be recognized as the most impressive grip athlete who ever lived, as his feats would make him at almost any body weight let alone a tiny one, you have to do better with the videos than a scale that is clearly set to pounds when you claim a crazy number in kilos. Seriously. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 8 hours ago, matek said: Even if this is possible, I'm not your man. Even with a somewhat good estimation of the cross-sectional area of the relevant muscles and using the specific tension highest possible for humans, there are just way too many variables (not just about muscle force). After a very complex model we would get something which is still very simplified to be conclusive about the physiological limit. But Derek is far more knowledgeable about this topic than me. I was about Tiziano's size before I started weight lifting in general (148 lbs 5'8"), I'm also half-italian if it matters, but I have a good idea of his body type as I am not much different besides being 40-50 lbs heavier than he is currently. As I've said in other threads I saw his progress very early on while just barely managing to close a coc 3/ghp7, then mere months later was certified on ghp8 then very soon ghp9 etc..as someone also making similar progressions I have an honest understanding of how difficult each of these progressions are, and I pretty much stopped paying attention after the ghp8 cert as I was doubting things very early on before it became sensationalized on gripboard. That's old news at this point but I was still willing to give some benefit of the doubt, because grippers are levers where smaller hand and finger width are an advantage, it takes less overall power to close a gripper the further down the handle you can fit, which only makes people closing big grippers with wide fingers and hands even more impressive because they have worse gripper leverages, disregarding anything to do with finger length. So this is probably why I've (just recently) began repping 3.5s, but I do 102.2 kg on a dyno which is not really that impressive on a competitive level, but probably why I can outcrush many people on grippers who otherwise outperform on dyno or any other brute force grip lift, or friction based lifts where hand size has a directly proportional advantage. Like I said I pretty much stopped paying attention after the GHP8 cert, I rarely watch people's training videos, I don't watch grip podcasts, so I am out of the loop on most things, and I'm not familiar with what's considered "good" with blob lifts etc as I have no experience with them but obviously there's been some top notch detective work done in this thread, and all I can say is that if anyone thought the gripper stuff was absurb, all these other blob and static grip implement lifts are even way more absurb to be claiming world class level strength on, because these are actual strength based lifts where bigger guys with bigger hands and overall higher force output are going to dominate. This is no longer a "hOw iS hE sO gOoD aT gRiPpErS" question, where the answer is pretty much just what are your anatomical gripper leverages, and do you know how to effectively train grippers or not, because otherwise grippers are not rocket science. For example I've talked with Matias now and then who just did 130 kg something on a GM150 but underperforms on grippers compared to me, and me with my 102.2 kg dyno is way ahead on grippers in comparison. Because one feat is pure strength, and one feat is leverages/overall just practice/skill. For Tiziano to be claiming world class status on basically every other grip implement in existence where now just brute strength is being taken into question, is even more ridiculous than the whole gripper controversy, which i was still willing to give him some chance to prove himself on, I think the IM videos would be very hard to fake, I have not examined it in as close detail as others but it would even be tough to sync up that strand of hair he had hanging to swap out a gripper etc. I think it's possible to still be great at grippers while not having giant hands or a giant body. But all the other grip lifts, especially after the VERY OBVIOUS pictures of the scale reading lbs and not kg, who does he think he is fooling at this point. Mail the scale to CPW to inspect or something... As far as I'm concerned Tiziano is basically the Criss Angel of gripsport, uses the magic of videos to portray an image of being really strong, but will never do the same feats in a public setting where conditions are not controlled for, where someone who actually understands what is and isn't real strength is present, that's never going to happen, the all expenses trip to Dubai will never happen, someone reliable training in his gym with him will never happen, just like mailing the 200 rgc #4 to Cannon never happened, just like nothing else will ever happen. Criss Angel F'd up with levitation stunts on video by having mismatched backgrounds between shots etc, Tiziano F'd up with the scale thing, at this point do people wanna continue being lied to or just ignore him. Anyway I'm going to go train some grippers, have a good day everyone. 11 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsMcHanderson Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Doesn’t care what we think, isn’t willing to disprove the evidence, but is willing to put in more time than it would take to disprove the evidence by replying with ramblings about completely separate issues. The focus on the clock thing is telling, it’s the weakest argument for cheating and has an easy explanation, so he probably focuses there because it’s an area where he didn’t cheat. He barely mentions the main issue here (the scale) because it would he hard to overcome that evidence as a cheater. @Tiziano Becchio what competition do you plan on entering? You mentioned “when I travel to competitions” do you have one in mind? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHATMUSCLE COACHING Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 The original poster in this thread has the #3 as a goal , this explains the mentality that spawns posts such as these. It usually takes me about a month to get athletic guys up to a #3 , with my coaching. The inch isn't unliftable, a dozen guys in my gym can lift it. A few of those have small hands. For me as a coach I see the stuff tiz does every day, it doesn't even phase me. I have a guy in my gym that lifts the inch for sets of ten and he doesn't weigh anymore than the inch. He is a rock climber and has a fantastic CNS People on this board need to redefine what they think is good in grip. A #3, 2 45s , 45 hub and the inch happen hundreds of times per day in one little gym here, reset what you think is hard and it all makes sense. I'm tiz' coach , he pays good money to work with me. I haven't got any knowledge on editing though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 3 minutes ago, PHATMUSCLE COACHING said: The original poster in this thread has the #3 as a goal , this explains the mentality that spawns posts such as these. It usually takes me about a month to get athletic guys up to a #3 , with my coaching. The inch isn't unliftable, a dozen guys in my gym can lift it. A few of those have small hands. For me as a coach I see the stuff tiz does every day, it doesn't even phase me. I have a guy in my gym that lifts the inch for sets of ten and he doesn't weigh anymore than the inch. He is a rock climber and has a fantastic CNS People on this board need to redefine what they think is good in grip. A #3, 2 45s , 45 hub and the inch happen hundreds of times per day in one little gym here, reset what you think is hard and it all makes sense. I'm tiz' coach , he pays good money to work with me. I haven't got any knowledge on editing though. So you're cool with your clients using lbs on their scale and telling people it's kg? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsMcHanderson Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 5 minutes ago, PHATMUSCLE COACHING said: The original poster in this thread has the #3 as a goal , this explains the mentality that spawns posts such as these. It usually takes me about a month to get athletic guys up to a #3 , with my coaching. The inch isn't unliftable, a dozen guys in my gym can lift it. A few of those have small hands. For me as a coach I see the stuff tiz does every day, it doesn't even phase me. I have a guy in my gym that lifts the inch for sets of ten and he doesn't weigh anymore than the inch. He is a rock climber and has a fantastic CNS People on this board need to redefine what they think is good in grip. A #3, 2 45s , 45 hub and the inch happen hundreds of times per day in one little gym here, reset what you think is hard and it all makes sense. I'm tiz' coach , he pays good money to work with me. I haven't got any knowledge on editing though. None of this addresses the issue at hand. Crapping on someone for their goals and hyping your coaching doesn’t address the concern at all. In fact, OPs goal has nothing to do with evidence of your athlete cheating. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHATMUSCLE COACHING Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 minute ago, C8Myotome said: So you're cool with your clients using lbs on their scale and telling people it's kg If people such as "Bruce" put as much time into training as seeing stuff that's not there, he'd be a danger of getting strong. This thread reminds me of the paranormal... oh look a shadow on a video it must be a ghost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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