bruce1337 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 Just now, DoctorOfCrush said: He might be referring to this style: Exactly what I'm referring to. Thanks for the find. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climber028 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 It is a little uncommon but a lot of people have used the washer method which is easy and leaves plenty of room for your hands. The tape could be nothing or could be covering tampering we really have no way of knowing for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, DoctorOfCrush said: He might be referring to this style: Ok. Makes sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 On a very related note, refer to my comment 4 months ago On 9/29/2023 at 7:37 PM, bruce1337 said: They called us nay-sayers They called us doubters They called us bullies They called us crazy But the truth always comes through at the end of the day. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, Climber028 said: It is a little uncommon but a lot of people have used the washer method which is easy and leaves plenty of room for your hands. The tape could be nothing or could be covering tampering we really have no way of knowing for sure. I concede. I forgot that was even a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, bruce1337 said: On a very related note, refer to my comment 4 months ago I was on his side. More because of the initial "he couldn't do it because i can't" theory. You were right. He didn't and couldn't do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorOfCrush Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Allen Heineck said: I was on his side. More because of the initial "he couldn't do it because i can't" theory. You were right. He didn't and couldn't do it. Same. I've grown accustomed to folks doing things I can't , so that didn't do it for me. This stuff just doesn't pass the sensibility test, and the evidence keeps mounting. Where there's this much smoke. . . 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Jared P said: Also, I just noticed this piece of tape, or whatever it is, on the left side of the spring above the handle. This is from his original CoC 4 201 lbs post. That's pretty weird. I've never seen anything like that before. You are confirming that is a #4 in the photo? 7.83 mm indicates a 0.306” spring which is not a level that IronMind uses. Wire is only available in certain sizes. The #3.5 is a 0.295” spring (same as Tetting Elite, Standard Cobalt). The #4 is a 0.312” spring (same as Tetting GE, Standard Tungsten). 0.306” is used on grippers like Tetting Super Elite and Standard Titanium, but IM has not ever used that size to my knowledge. Spring manufacturers have tolerances for wire that are in the neighborhood of +/- .002”. I don’t think a 0.312” spring could ever measure 0.308”. The tolerance does not allow that. That would have to be a 0.306” wire that was off by 0.002”. It wouldn’t take much for the calipers to be off in their starting position. But that photo seems to exhibit an IronMind gripper that shouldn’t exist. Edit: Please read further in the thread as other members have reported 7.83 mm or nearby measurements for their grippers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, Allen Heineck said: I was on his side. More because of the initial "he couldn't do it because i can't" theory. You were right. He didn't and couldn't do it. Our argument was never "i cant do this so he cant". It was "how did he progress from 180 block set to 221 ccs in MONTHS when it took Carl 7 years of dedication?" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Cannon said: You are confirming that is a #4 in the photo? 7.83 mm indicates a 0.306” spring which is not a level that IronMind uses. Wire is only available in certain sizes. The #3.5 is a 0.295” spring (same as Tetting Elite, Standard Cobalt). The #4 is a 0.312” spring (same as Tetting GE, Standard Tungsten). 0.306” is used on grippers like Tetting Super Elite and Standard Titanium, but IM has not ever used that size to my knowledge. Spring manufactures have tolerances for wire that are in the neighborhood of +/- .002”. I don’t think a 0.312” spring could ever measure 0.308”. The tolerance does not allow that. That would have to be a 0.307” wire that was off by 0.001”. It wouldn’t take much for the calipers to be off in their starting position. But that photo seems to exhibit an IronMind gripper that shouldn’t exist. My guess from the start has been that its a ghp8 spring. It makes for a believable #4 at a glance. But i'm unsure of a standard GHP8 wire size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climber028 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 The heavy Coc 4 close is the moment I knew for sure he was fake, some of the other feats are at least plausible but the magnitude of the feat and the short timeline of improvement just aren't going to be possible. Cheaters just get too greedy, he could have just cheated a little bit andade small improvements over years and it would seem at least believable. Nobody is going from not closing a 3 to closing a 4 in that short of time, even ignoring the small bodyweight which still is a huge factor. To me, today, Yves is at or near the pinnacle of performance for light weights I can at least get close to a few of his lifts and he has had a long slow progression in strength 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, bruce1337 said: Our argument was never "i cant do this so he cant". It was "how did he progress from 180 block set to 221 ccs in MONTHS when it took Carl 7 years of I think we're talking about different threads here. But my interest in defending him is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, bruce1337 said: My guess from the start has been that its a ghp8 spring. It makes for a believable #4 at a glance GHP 8 is also 0.295” not 0.306”. It cannot be a GHP 8 spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 Just now, Cannon said: GHP 8 is also 0.295” not 0.306”. It cannot be a GHP 8 spring. Then throw my theory out the window. How difficult is it to procure your own torsion springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, Cannon said: It wouldn’t take much for the calipers to be off in their starting position. But that photo seems to exhibit an IronMind gripper that shouldn’t exist. I feel like this is as much as I can confirm. If that photo is supposed to be of a #4 then it seems to exhibit an IronMind gripper that shouldn’t exist. Or it was measured poorly without the calipers being zeroed properly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) I do not know which gripper this spring is from Edited February 5 by SeNoLD 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cannon said: You are confirming that is a #4 in the photo? 7.83 mm indicates a 0.306” spring which is not a level that IronMind uses. Wire is only available in certain sizes. The #3.5 is a 0.295” spring (same as Tetting Elite, Standard Cobalt). The #4 is a 0.312” spring (same as Tetting GE, Standard Tungsten). 0.306” is used on grippers like Tetting Super Elite and Standard Titanium, but IM has not ever used that size to my knowledge. Spring manufacturers have tolerances for wire that are in the neighborhood of +/- .002”. I don’t think a 0.312” spring could ever measure 0.307”. The tolerance does not allow that. That would have to be a 0.306” wire that was off by 0.001”. It wouldn’t take much for the calipers to be off in their starting position. But that photo seems to exhibit an IronMind gripper that shouldn’t exist. Honestly I don't know how this didn't spark something in my mind in the original thread that goes all the way back to the beginning. I guess I didn't do the conversion at the time and my American brain doesn't fluently speak millimeters. But that IronMind gripper should not exist. There could MAYYYYYBBEEEE be an argument that it was a GHP 9 spring as those tend to measure just slightly under their peers, I think because of how they are polished removes a very small amount of material. But that's not good either because it still points to a swapped spring, but I'm still skeptical it could get down to 0.307" even with a GHP 9 spring. Bottom line, I've ran around the shop measuring a bunch of grippers just to make absolutely sure. IronMind #3.5 is 0.295" and #4 is 0.312". A 0.306" IronMind should not exist. Edit: Please read further in the thread as other members have reported 7.83 mm measurements for their grippers. Edited February 5 by Cannon Clarity 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 9/29/2023 at 11:37 AM, bruce1337 said: They called us nay-sayers They called us doubters They called us bullies They called us crazy But the truth always comes through at the end of the day I concede, you were likely correct, as far as I can tell. Well done. I've tried to remain impartial and even generous all this time, despite having several red flags appear in private conversation, even as far back as 6 months ago, which I will keep private. If I accused him, and was somehow wrong, I'd feel terrible for jumping on the bandwagon and becoming just another one of his wrongful accusers. There has also been an incredible amount of claims which seemed very difficult to fake. The certification videos. The gripper inspections from Vano, Carl, and Nathan of the grippers they sent him and received back. But as time has passed, the reality has slowly made itself clear. We may have been dealing with a master manipulator after all. We've been duped, folks. Bamboozled. Hoodwinked. Gripfished. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorOfCrush Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 15 minutes ago, Cannon said: Honestly I don't know how this didn't spark something in my mind in the original thread that goes all the way back to the beginning. I guess I didn't do the conversion at the time and my American brain doesn't fluently speak millimeters. But that IronMind gripper should not exist. There could MAYYYYYBBEEEE be an argument that it was a GHP 9 spring as those tend to measure just slightly under their peers, I think because of how they are polished removes a very small amount of material. But that's not good either because it still points to a swapped spring, but I'm still skeptical it could get down to 0.307" even with a GHP 9 spring. Bottom line, I've ran around the shop measuring a bunch of grippers just to make absolutely sure. IronMind #3.5 is 0.295" and #4 is 0.312". A 0.306" IronMind should not exist. He closed a CoC 4 that doesn't have the proper spring size that every other CoC 4 has. A CoC 4, that should not exist in reality. I think that qualifies as official evidence of fraud, though in theory he could claim to have purchased an altered gripper unknowingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 30 minutes ago, Jared P said: We've been duped, folks. Bamboozled. Hoodwinked. Gripfished. Some people were 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Wait... I just went and picked up a random CoC 4 from my collection, my heaviest at 224. Haven't even measured the others yet. It measures around 7.83-7.85mm, depending on my hand moving. Made sure it was zeroed out correctly, and triple checked the measurement. Quote 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABZSTS Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 2/2/2024 at 11:54 PM, Jared P said: I'd be curious to see if a study exists, or simply the raw physics, that precisely calculates (or roughly estimates) the maximum possible crushing grip force that could be exerted relative to body mass or weight, presumably with a dynamometer. Perhaps a question that Ivan, Derek, or matek could answer. I'm curious, too. I imagine hand size, and even pectoral strength would be other variables. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Am I doing the math wrong now? I have to admit it's been a very long day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Jared P said: Wait... I just went and picked up a random CoC 4 from my collection, my heaviest at 224. Haven't even measured the others yet. It measures around 7.83-7.85mm, depending on my hand moving. Made sure it was zeroed out correctly, and triple checked the measurement. Interesting. @Cannon What is your input? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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