martincerven Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 15 minutes ago, Londonjoseph said: For any future gripboard certifications, even maybe the feats list, a witness should be required. None of this would have happened if a trusted witness was present. 4 minutes ago, martincerven said: Maybe do certifications only during competitions? But this would discriminate people where no witnesses live and no comps are, IDK, Madagascar or Virgin Islands? Also witnesses aren't everything, Joe's wife is as credible witness as Tiziano's dog. I kinda like current format. Carl also had sus CoC4 cert video where he pulled the gripper out of frame, but Carl also repeatedly closed grippers in front of Larry and ton of other people. On the other hand, Tiziano is not living on an remote island in middle of an ocean, and has put out increasingly ridiculous videos, while refusing to ever meet anyone. Context matter, if you claim to No Set close 260lbs gripper, sure but show up at some competition or at public space so it could be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonjoseph Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 5 minutes ago, Climber028 said: If we did that I'd like to somehow stratify it based on how elite the lift is. If someone wants to be on the list for pinching two 35lb plates I certainly am not going to put on my detective hat and spend weeks analysing the video, but if you are claiming something world class or some small percentage away that's when extra scrutiny is required. Need to be efficient and not interrogate everyone who does "normal" feats since that could make fewer people want to participate if there's too many hoops to jump through I agree with this stance. Hell, you could certify 2x25lbs pinch on gripboard However we have had so many frauds, at this point if you claim something world class you need a witness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorOfCrush Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Climber028 said: If we did that I'd like to somehow stratify it based on how elite the lift is. If someone wants to be on the list for pinching two 35lb plates I certainly am not going to put on my detective hat and spend weeks analysing the video, but if you are claiming something world class or some small percentage away that's when extra scrutiny is required. Need to be efficient and not interrogate everyone who does "normal" feats since that could make fewer people want to participate if there's too many hoops to jump through 25 minutes ago, stranger said: This would eliminate so many from ever getting on the lists, so i say no. There were cheaters before Tiz and there will be cheaters after. Let's not let him dictate how things are done. These were my immediate thoughts. I plan on trying to do the new Mash Monster cert when it goes live in the 140 range and hopefully up to the 160 range one day, but I certainly would not be doing it if it meant I would have to jump through these additional hoops. It's already going to be a lot for me to coordinate peaking and timing that kind of thing with work and family, let alone trying to arrange a witness. But I'm not claiming some world class feat that should require the utmost scrutiny. I think stipulations like this would drive down participation in such things...a lot. Edited February 6 by DoctorOfCrush 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderbrew Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 This has been a monster thread. Does anyone care to put a succinct list together of what Tiziano has done that is most damning? I don’t trust him as far as I can through his styrofoam plates, but it would be nice to have a post that I can reference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Yeah, if we required witnesses, no one would participate. If you're doing a world class feat and no one knows who you are already, then we can require extra verification. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 22 minutes ago, stranger said: This would eliminate so many from ever getting on the lists, so i say no. There were cheaters before Tiz and there will be cheaters after. Let's not let him dictate how things are done. Agree, I do not see the gripboard heading this direction. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 19 minutes ago, Boulderbrew said: This has been a monster thread. Does anyone care to put a succinct list together of what Tiziano has done that is most damning? I don’t trust him as far as I can through his styrofoam plates, but it would be nice to have a post that I can reference. Basically, we know his scale has been set to lbs while claiming lifts in kg, and the evidence of spring tampering was sufficient enough for Vano to remove him from the Grippermania leaderboard. The scale is the only hard evidence we have that he has been deceptive about his strength and ability, unless you want to count the foam weights he had in that troll video. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I am wondering if anyone can provide this evidence to ironmind to get him off that cert list like hubgeezer since he knows Randall so well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IROC-Z Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I'm kind of late to the game here, but what is the actual point of faking all these feats? I would think if a guy that size was truly that strong, he would want to show up to every contest he can find and completely dominate. Clearly this guy can never show up at any contest because he would instantly be exposed as a fraud. Makes no sense to me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 11 minutes ago, Chez said: I am wondering if anyone can provide this evidence to ironmind to get him off that cert list like hubgeezer since he knows Randall so well The problem is that the scale stuff is not evidence he cheated on that cert. Right now, regarding that video—and supposedly IronMind has the second angle as well—I don’t believe there is any concrete objection. The concern is more like “There is a blip that can be noticed.” That is not very compelling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 22 minutes ago, Chez said: I am wondering if anyone can provide this evidence to ironmind to get him off that cert list like hubgeezer since he knows Randall so well I would really like it to be removed from the certified coc 3.5, however, it will be impossible to prove the substitution of the gripper there. We can only appeal that he is a liar. And yes, he had to change the spring to close the 83kg with a 20mm block. This means that he had no chance to close Coc 3.5 from the card. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I closed my Coc 3.5 when I pressed 94kg from a 20mm block twice. And look how it looked. Not at all like Tiziano's, yes) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeNoLD Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 minutes ago, SeNoLD said: I would really like it to be removed from the certified coc 3.5, however, it will be impossible to prove the substitution of the gripper there. We can only appeal that he is a liar. And yes, he had to change the spring to close the 83kg with a 20mm block. This means that he had no chance to close Coc 3.5 from the card. So we need someone who knows Randall well to influence him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 3 minutes ago, Cannon said: and supposedly IronMind has the second angle as well I wonder if they'd be willing to share that video. At the time, I remember that second angle video being pretty conclusive about there being zero video cuts/splices. Which means any manipulation would have had to happen to the gripper itself. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, DoctorOfCrush said: These were my immediate thoughts. I plan on trying to do the new Mash Monster cert when it goes live in the 140 range and hopefully up to the 160 range one day, but I certainly would not be doing it if it meant I would have to jump through these additional hoops. It's already going to be a lot for me to coordinate peaking and timing that kind of thing with work and family, let alone trying to arrange a witness. But I'm not claiming some world class feat that should require the utmost scrutiny. I think stipulations like this would drive down participation in such things...a lot. Agreed with this, and the previous comments. I'm not trying to jump through a million hoops just to certify in the 140 range. Perhaps if people are in the upper ranges or world record territory, judges could use their discretion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 10 minutes ago, SeNoLD said: So we need someone who knows Randall well to influence him. Can’t the facts just be the way? The facts about the cert do not justify reconsideration IMO. Good luck arguing it to IM. I sure would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) He should be removed from the GHP list and IM..it will be difficult to figure out exactly how the IM was faked even though we all know it is fake, also what an insult to those actually 3.5 certified to try to make such a difficult feat look so effortless with a triple. I don't think IM would want to be associated with someone being fraudulent on such a high level even elsewhere. If he was so willing to lie about scale weights, even after getting caught, why would anything else have been true, we are still trying to figure out exactly how he did it now. I agree it would have to take people that know both Wade and Randall to make a case to remove both certifications. Maybe a master document preparing as much evidence as possible could be prepared to show them, with details like Jared's timelime, that could prove how unlikely he was ever capable of doing ghp9 or 3.5 certs. Maybe this time line could be put alongside actual legitimate people who have completed the same certs and are known to be all around strong in other areas that have more background/reputation. Without solid evidence on the 3.5 cert there's plenty of already existing evidence that could prove he was never capable of the 3.5 cert beyond all reasonable doubt. Vinnie is a lawyer he could probably word it in a convincing way Edited February 7 by C8Myotome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 3 minutes ago, Jared P said: I'm not trying to jump through a million hoops just to certify in the 140 range. I have quite a few ideas about safeguards at any level. I just do not see this being an ongoing problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 minute ago, C8Myotome said: Vinnie is a lawyer he could probably word it in a convincing way I think you’re thinking about this wrong. Shouldn’t it just take actual evidence? The best case you could maybe make right now would be to point out the inconsistencies on the GM cert. (Which I don’t feel is even fully flushed out yet. Vano said—via David—the spring doesn’t match but it’s not like he posted photos, has he?) But if I was IronMind, I would reply “Cool. Prove he cheated our cert.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Yeah, you've got to consider the implication for Ironmind. Basically, they'd be admitting their process was exploited and they were duped. Let's be real...there's a lot of egos on this board and in this thread, and now Doc Strossen is going to be thrown into the mix with flimsy evidence? I'm here for it, but I don't see this ending with anyone being happy or satisfied with the outcome. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Sounds like everyone here either believes, or is highly suspicious, that he had to have cheated these gripper certs. The problem is, the only piece of 'evidence' so far is one photo without context where a spring looks kind of glossy and like there might be a small gap in the coil. How has he done this? Is this guy some kind of evil mastermind? Is this like an episode of Penn and Teller: Fool Us, and we can't figure out his trick? The 3.5 certification gets me the most. How did he take the gripper out of the parcel without detection, remove it from the vacuum sealed packaging, remove the handles or simply swap out the entire gripper (which also would have had to been altered without detection), and seal all of the packaging back up perfectly? Or is it just simply a video edit, that is undetectable, despite his hair and body being perfectly placed before and after a splice, while having swapped out the gripper? I believe if we can acquire the second angle video, it will tell the story of whether or not his manipulations were with video editing or gripper editing, or somehow both. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonjoseph Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Maybe I can speak to Randall, Randall loves me. He's having me do a red nail cert video demo, explaining all the do's and don'ts. He is sending me a buncha free red nails and free new pads. We've had some good conversations and now I'm getting free product 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 2 minutes ago, Londonjoseph said: Maybe I can speak to Randall, Randall loves me. He's having me do a red nail cert video demo, explaining all the do's and don'ts. He is sending me a buncha free red nails and free new pads. We've had some good conversations and now I'm getting free product I remember when you hated his guts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonjoseph Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 2 minutes ago, dubyagrip said: I remember when you hated his guts. Shh...... Don't hate the player, hate the game. I'm getting free reds and free pads, I'll give GREAT endorsement for now , 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) All I've got right now is at 1:40 he steps out of the camera frame for a few seconds. During this time the gripper is on the table out of the (mailing) package, inside cellophane. This would be such an easy video splice moment. I believe the athlete stepping out of video frame should be a red flag, it is just as bad as a gripper leaving the frame. It could be possible he set the real 3.5 down in cellophane, stepped out of frame, swapped the real 3.5 to a modified gripper with 3.5 handles that he may have done a really good job resealing. The original package is shown at close up first, but then the package after he stepped out of frame is opened away farrrrr from the camera. You could exacto knife the gripper out of the cellophane and swap the gripper without ripping any of the backing paper. However it was resealed, with glue or tape would not be visible with how far away from the camera it was opened. It is not clear at all that it was the original package being opened. That's how I'd do it if I was going to fake a cert. There's people that make counterfeit products for a living, resealing some cellophane is probably day 1 of counterfeit training And then proceed with fake close...ccs a 2.5 maybe 3 times That's my theory I'm surprised it was not flagged for him leaving the frame after the package was open..10 hours could go by and you would never know, what an easy moment to splice 2 clips You could easily melt the glue in the handles to swap 3.5 handles onto a 2.5 and reglue, and reseal the exacto knifed package, then only open it far away from the camera..voila Edited February 7 by C8Myotome 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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