dubyagrip Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, bruce1337 said: On a very related note, refer to my comment 4 months ago Yep, I ended up being wrong about him. I also apologize for any of my responses or interaction that came across as antagonistic with those of you who were skeptical of him from the start. I think it went both ways, but I'll own up to my end of it whether anyone else wants to or not. It cost me nothing to take his word for it and to think what was being shown was not some elaborate scheme. As Vinnie said earlier in the thread, there's a level of civility to trust one another until given a reason not to, even if you have reservations. I really didn't care if he was up to no good or not because I see grippers as feats and not competition. I get that others feel differently, and that is cool. While the evidence is indisputable, there are still questions as to what was legit and what wasn't. I still maintain it would be even more difficult to fake the Ironmind cert than the GMC, but at this point, nothing would surprise me as the discovery continues. I'm aware of the jitter in the 3.5 video, but it occurs throughout. Maybe he did that to throw people off the scent? How did he fool the folks who sent him the grippers and received them back fully intact? Maybe one day he will come clean and tell us. Hopefully the division can now end, and we can get on to arguing about the next ridiculous nonsense that is inevitably making its way to the gripboard. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haleygow7 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 here for the drama. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Quote Also, how did he fool Carl? Surely Carl knows grippers, having trained with them for 7 years. Is it possible that Tiziano could have removed the handles, and reattached them, all without detection from Carl? Haha, this is all so weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, Jared P said: Wait... I just went and picked up a random CoC 4 from my collection, my heaviest at 224. Haven't even measured the others yet. It measures around 7.83-7.85mm, depending on my hand moving. Made sure it was zeroed out correctly, and triple checked the measurement. I don't know what to make of that. I ran around and measured quite a few and cannot get below 0.310" on anything. I am seeing my initial math was wrong and 7.83 is 0.308, not 0.307" so I at least corrected that in my original question about this. At this point, maybe my calipers suck, I cannot deny your result. Although it still doesn't make sense to me because a 0.312" should never get down to 0.308". I don't know what to make of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, dubyagrip said: Yep, I ended up being wrong about him. I also apologize for any of my responses or interaction that came across as antagonistic with those of you who were skeptical of him from the start. I think it went both ways, but I'll own up to my end of it whether anyone else wants to or not. It cost me nothing to take his word for it and to think what was being shown was not some elaborate scheme. As Vinnie said earlier in the thread, there's a level of civility to trust one another until given a reason not to, even if you have reservations. I really didn't care if he was up to no good or not because I see grippers as feats and not competition. I get that others feel differently, and that is cool. While the evidence is indisputable, there are still questions as to what was legit and what wasn't. I still maintain it would be even more difficult to fake the Ironmind cert than the GMC, but at this point, nothing would surprise me as the discovery continues. I'm aware of the jitter in the 3.5 video, but it occurs throughout. Maybe he did that to throw people off the scent? How did he fool the folks who sent him the grippers and received them back fully intact? Maybe one day he will come clean and tell us. Hopefully the division can now end, and we can get on to arguing about the next ridiculous nonsense that is inevitably making its way to the gripboard. All water under the bridge. What I want to learn from this whole experience is how exactly did he pull it off so we can safeguard future certifications from it. If @Cannon decides to start a new cert list we need to be able to protect the list from any fraudulent activity. This is kinda like when Frank Abagnale became a security consultant for banks I would like to have Tiziano as one of the official gripper cert judges. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, Jared P said: Also, how did he fool Carl? Surely Carl knows grippers, having trained with them for 7 years. Is it possible that Tiziano could have removed the handles, and reattached them, all without detection from Carl? Haha, this is all so weird. When Tiziano first opened them on camera he failed to close them. Then a day later he filmed himself finally closing it. You can probably easily deduce what happened here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Cannon said: I don't know what to make of that. I ran around and measured quite a few and cannot get below 0.310" on anything. I am seeing my initial math was wrong and 7.83 is 0.308, not 0.307" so I at least corrected that in my original question about this. At this point, maybe my calipers suck, I cannot deny your result. Although it still doesn't make sense to me because a 0.312" should never get down to 0.308". I don't know what to make of that. Only one conclusion can be drawn. You are selling us fake grippers, like Nikita thought all along! 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, Cannon said: I don't know what to make of that. I ran around and measured quite a few and cannot get below 0.310" on anything. I am seeing my initial math was wrong and 7.83 is 0.308, not 0.307" so I at least corrected that in my original question about this. At this point, maybe my calipers suck, I cannot deny your result. Although it still doesn't make sense to me because a 0.312" should never get down to 0.308". I don't know what to make of that. I got .3085 using my caliper on a #4 that you rated. My caliper doesn't suck. For the last 25 years I have aligned centrifugal pumps for a living. In the old days I used a dial indicator, now I use a laser. I use a Mitotuyo caliper to verify shim thickness. I've never seen a caliper as nice as mine used to measure a gripper spring. What I'm saying is Cannon's measurements/findings seem on point. As they should. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, Jared P said: Only one conclusion can be drawn. You are selling us fake grippers, like Nikita thought all along! Yeah, I’m sorry if that analysis raised the overall confusion. I think it best to retract that objection. We are down to the question of a thousandth here or there and it’s less clear. I cannot find any that low, and I really tried, but I appreciate your contribution that it’s possible for a #4 to measure that low. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I just measured all 5 of my CoC 4s. 205 210 214 219 224 Depending on how much pressure I use to close the caliper after touching, I can get a result as low as 7.83-7.86mm on most of them. But if I stop the caliper right as it barely touches the spring, my results are closer to 7.89-7.92mm. So I guess it's kind of arbitrary. Would be curious to hear what other people's 4s measure at. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Jared P said: I just measured all 5 of my CoC 4s. 205 210 214 219 224 Depending on how much pressure I use to close the caliper after touching, I can get a result as low as 7.83-7.86mm on most of them. But if I stop the caliper right as it barely touches the spring, my results are closer to 7.89-7.92mm. So I guess it's kind of arbitrary. Would be curious to hear what other people's 4s measure at. Im no expert but aren't you supposed to just touch it? Thats how I have always measured. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, Allen Heineck said: I got .3085 using my caliper on a #4 that you rated. My caliper doesn't suck. For the last 25 years I have aligned centrifugal pumps for a living. In the old days I used a dial indicator, now I use a laser. I use a Mitotuyo caliper to verify shim thickness. Thank you for this. It does help establish that 7.83 mm should not be considered out of spec. Even if I could not find anything that low, that doesn’t mean it cannot be that low which I thought was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 10 minutes ago, Allen Heineck said: I got .3085 using my caliper on a #4 that you rated. My caliper doesn't suck. For the last 25 years I have aligned centrifugal pumps for a living. In the old days I used a dial indicator, now I use a laser. I use a Mitotuyo caliper to verify shim thickness. I've never seen a caliper as nice as mine used to measure a gripper spring. What I'm saying is Cannon's measurements/findings seem on point. As they should. That's 7.836mm, the same measurement as Tiziano got in the photo in question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Don't worry, you'll get him eventually boys. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Love the analysis going on here cause I absolutely can’t stand cheaters. I trained my butt off to get my crush strength so someone cheating drives me nuts . 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Meh, he should’ve just used two quarters on the #4 and the expression “you can see that’s pretty fat”, this has worked charms in the past Why all the hassle with the calliper 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 46 minutes ago, bruce1337 said: Im no expert but aren't you supposed to just touch it? Thats how I have always measured. You do not squeeze tightly. You usually have a standard to check against like a gauge block. @Jared P Do you have one? It really matters in this case no matter the quality of the caliper. And you have to kind of train the right pressure that gives a repeatable and correct result on the gauge block since it's a known figure. Once you know your caliper is measuring the standard correctly then you take a measurement from the part. You should measure the standard in the same place you plan to measure the part, in this case out near the tip of the jaws. I'm going through that process on the springs I can check here. Nothing is anywhere near 0.308". The lowest I have found is 0.310 to 0.311". So that still bothers me. This is hard for me to reconcile. Excessive pressure to close the caliper during the measurement can absolutely affect the result. Basically I feel it's unknown if Tiziano's measurement was well done and unfortunately it matters. This one is going to bug me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martincerven Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 9 minutes ago, Cannon said: You do not squeeze tightly. You usually have a standard to check against like a gauge block. @Jared P Do you have one? It really matters in this case no matter the quality of the caliper. And you have to kind of train the right pressure that gives a repeatable and correct result on the gauge block since it's a known figure. Once you know your caliper is measuring the standard correctly then you take a measurement from the part. You should measure the standard in the same place you plan to measure the part, in this case out near the tip of the jaws. I'm going through that process on the springs I can check here. Nothing is anywhere near 0.308". The lowest I have found is 0.310 to 0.311". So that still bothers me. This is hard for me to reconcile. Excessive pressure to close the caliper during the measurement can absolutely affect the result. Basically I feel it's unknown if Tiziano's measurement was well done and unfortunately it matters. This one is going to bug me. I know that thickness of the wire is important, but what about hand of the clock - teleport in Ironmind video at 3:48? Set the quality to 1080p, I don't think this can be attributed to compression or glitching, I've shot and edited a lot of videos and clocks don't skip randomly like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderbrew Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) This has been pissing me off for awhile. I had hoped that he really was freak strong…but it seems like he really is a cheat. On his Instagram story he posted 2 20kg plate air transfer…the weights looked quite fake to me. https://imgur.com/a/qxb7wKQ Edited February 5 by Boulderbrew 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, martincerven said: I know that thickness of the wire is important, but what about hand of the clock - teleport in Ironmind video at 3:48? Set the quality to 1080p, I don't think this can be attributed to compression or glitching, I've shot and edited a lot of videos and clocks don't skip randomly like that I have no idea about that. There are more interesting problems to me. The scale and now the GM spring. The #4 measurements have me rattled, but none of the video stuff has interested me much so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 17 minutes ago, Cannon said: You do not squeeze tightly. You usually have a standard to check against like a gauge block. @Jared P Do you have one? It really matters in this case no matter the quality of the caliper. And you have to kind of train the right pressure that gives a repeatable and correct result on the gauge block since it's a known figure. Once you know your caliper is measuring the standard correctly then you take a measurement from the part. You should measure the standard in the same place you plan to measure the part, in this case out near the tip of the jaws. I'm going through that process on the springs I can check here. Nothing is anywhere near 0.308". The lowest I have found is 0.310 to 0.311". So that still bothers me. This is hard for me to reconcile. Excessive pressure to close the caliper during the measurement can absolutely affect the result. Basically I feel it's unknown if Tiziano's measurement was well done and unfortunately it matters. This one is going to bug me. I don't have any gauge blocks, nor had I ever heard of them. Perhaps Allen does, and can re-measure his 4. What about the GHP and CPW setting blocks. Are those very accurate? I also have a 20mm diameter aluminum pipe I bought from the hardware store, before I had a 20mm block. Can those be used to calibrate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 10 minutes ago, Boulderbrew said: This has been pissing me off for awhile. I had hoped that he really was freak strong…but it seems like he really is a cheat. On his Instagram story he posted 2 20kg plate air transfer…the weights looked quite fake to me. https://imgur.com/a/qxb7wKQ I think that was just him trolling/joking. I don’t think he attempted it to look real. It was meant to look fake. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climber028 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 11 minutes ago, Boulderbrew said: This has been pissing me off for awhile. I had hoped that he really was freak strong…but it seems like he really is a cheat. On his Instagram story he posted 2 20kg plate air transfer…the weights looked quite fake to me. https://imgur.com/a/qxb7wKQ Wow that looks extremely fake, especially right after he does a tiny lateral raise with ease nobody is doing that with 40kg. Looks like he's lifting a bottle of water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Jared P said: What about the GHP and CPW setting blocks. Are those very accurate? I also have a 20mm diameter aluminum pipe I bought from the hardware store, before I had a 20mm block. Can those be used to calibrate? I think your best bet in a pinch would be a new drill bit. But getting into that is even starting to get a little sloppy even if it improved your number. Like measure on a 1/4" bit until you're zeroed at 0.2500" and then go from there. And it still doesn't give clarity on Tiziano's number in comparison. I think ultimately if this is what we're doing with the measurements, it's not a fruitful avenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderbrew Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, David_wigren said: I think that was just him trolling/joking. I don’t think he attempted it to look real. It was meant to look fake. You think? Quite brazen given the hot water he is in. Maybe I wasn’t reading into the caption enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts