New Log On The Quest For The Number 4!

[Geo]

Twice, one day machines and the other grippers, with wrist rolling on a diff. day.

Well done for undertaking this task I hope you succeed! Joes part of the COC book is one of the best pieces of writing on training ever.

However if your gripper training is just what I have quoted above then you arent doing what Joe did in order to crush the #4. Dont forget Joe squatted 20 - 30 reps every morning before breakfast to build test- every day . I dont know of anyone else that has done this (?anyone know?) But I have replicated his grip training methods without the daily squatting - and have not found it beneficial. Before I started a log here I got up to 55 sets of negs twice a week. It certainly conditioned my hands! but I injured my middle finger tendon quite badly and couldnt train for a while. My hands just felt knackered all the time and they got more and more so until I got an injury.

I think maybe the key to Joes success was not just the negatives but the negatives combined with the high rep squatting -every day.

On another note I cant get on with the electrical tape - I find my pinky slips off all the time.

[Wes]

Warmed up with some hand stretching and by closing my #3. LOL I don't even have a gripper weaker than a #3 anymore! I've got a #3 (3.0), a supposed MM1 dud (3.5), a crazy hard SE (4.1) and a #4 (4.0). I did manage to close it left handed with a paralell set, which is awesome. Now if I can work up to a TNS, you'll be seeing my name on that double no set list!

Did negatives with my #4 x 60. I had to stop early, because the hole in my palm was hurting like hell. At first, just loading it with chalk worked, but then it got bigger and bled some more, so I had to quit. I cleaned it off and put some super glue on it, and it should be good in a couple of days. On these negs I would set it to paralell, and push it against my leg a bit until it was closed and then pull my hand off, and squeeze like hell! it would immediately open to 3/4 or so, and I would hold until it got just past paralell.

Tommorrow, I will do some negs on the TTK, and the day after I should be good for some short range wrist rolling (no more chest high, see my old log for details.. I'll be setting it on sawhorses from now on, and using a fairly short ROM)

edited to add- earlier I was walking outside after screwing around with my #3, and I picked up my ghetto inch loaded to 170 about a foot off the ground. The offset handle makes it roll like crazy!

Edited July 13, 2006 by Wes

[Timmy]

Warmed up with some hand stretching and by closing my #3. LOL I don't even have a gripper weaker than a #3 anymore! I've got a #3 (3.0), a supposed MM1 dud (3.5), a crazy hard SE (4.1) and a #4 (4.0). I did manage to close it left handed with a paralell set, which is awesome. Now if I can work up to a TNS, you'll be seeing my name on that double no set list!

Did negatives with my #4 x 60. I had to stop early, because the hole in my palm was hurting like hell. At first, just loading it with chalk worked, but then it got bigger and bled some more, so I had to quit. I cleaned it off and put some super glue on it, and it should be good in a couple of days. On these negs I would set it to paralell, and push it against my leg a bit until it was closed and then pull my hand off, and squeeze like hell! it would immediately open to 3/4 or so, and I would hold until it got just past paralell.

Tommorrow, I will do some negs on the TTK, and the day after I should be good for some short range wrist rolling (no more chest high, see my old log for details.. I'll be setting it on sawhorses from now on, and using a fairly short ROM)

edited to add- earlier I was walking outside after screwing around with my #3, and I picked up my ghetto inch loaded to 170 about a foot off the ground. The offset handle makes it roll like crazy!

SE > #4? That is very odd! Have you tried placing a bar between the spring and jumping on it? I don't see how a SE could be harder then the #4 - under normal conditions.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Timmy

[jad]

Timmy: It's my old SE and I know of at least one #4 it is certainly harder than and one that it is VERY close to.

Hope you stick with this program Wes, I'll be interested to see how it turns out.

[Wes]

You'd have to as Josh Dale about that one, he has closed a #4, but he said he never managed to close that SE It probably came from the same batch of steel as that dud, they're both freakishly hard at that last bit. The SE is barely easier on the sweep, but it just loads up like a mother towards the end.

whoops, I see Josh answered already-

Edited July 13, 2006 by Wes

[Teemu I]

Twice, one day machines and the other grippers, with wrist rolling on a diff. day.

Well done for undertaking this task I hope you succeed! Joes part of the COC book is one of the best pieces of writing on training ever.

However if your gripper training is just what I have quoted above then you arent doing what Joe did in order to crush the #4. Dont forget Joe squatted 20 - 30 reps every morning before breakfast to build test- every day . I dont know of anyone else that has done this (?anyone know?) But I have replicated his grip training methods without the daily squatting - and have not found it beneficial. Before I started a log here I got up to 55 sets of negs twice a week. It certainly conditioned my hands! but I injured my middle finger tendon quite badly and couldnt train for a while. My hands just felt knackered all the time and they got more and more so until I got an injury.

I think maybe the key to Joes success was not just the negatives but the negatives combined with the high rep squatting -every day.

On another note I cant get on with the electrical tape - I find my pinky slips off all the time.

There isn't anything secret about Kinney's success, he found a perfect way for him to make progress. It isn't the one and only way to train for success with big grippers. I think the most important part of Joe's wisdom that he has shared is the mindgame: attempts where you give only 99% effort aren't useful, so you better make each and every attempt your best. I've personally noticed, that it's the hardest part. I find myself becoming more and more able to push myself, as I've worked real hard to make my mindset right. All the volume alone is not what makes the difference, yes, squats and other stuff that makes you stronger all over are important, but I think that it's mostly about right mindset. I think it's better to do five severe negatives, where you know for sure that you have done it right than it is to do 55 negatives while your peaceful and happy. That's the "secret" of Holle brothers also, discipline to give each and every attempt everything you got. That isn't easy, I find myself learning to give more day by day. I previously thought I was giving it all I got, but actually, I haven't.

[Wes]

Good stuff Teemu-

Thumb Work-

Warmed up with 2 25's one hand plate pinch, these are wide as hell. Passed them about 10 times around, then did it with 3 fingers x 5, 2 fingers x 5 and a slow negative with 1 finger. I went to the 35's, and I could get them about a half an inch off the grund, but no full lifts. On to the TTK-

One hand TTK negs with 20lbs x 40 total (I'd try and keep the handles touching, and then let up), and then a burnout set x 20 with both hands.

[Wes]

My forearms were feeling alright, so I'll work in the wrist rolling today as well.

I remade my wristroller so it sits a couple of feet off the ground, and covered the handle with athletic tape, and used gloves. The ROM is about 3 inches up and down, so up and down that 3 inches is one rep.

90 x 10 Flexion

90 x 10 Ext

135 x 10 Flexion

135 x 10 Ext

180 x 10 Flexion

180 x 10 Ext

225 x 5 Flexion

225 x 0 Ext (My extensors aren't strong enough to do it this way)

Edited July 13, 2006 by Wes

[unseenbeat]

My forearms were feeling alright, so I'll work in the wrist rolling today as well.

I remade my wristroller so it sits a couple of feet off the ground, and covered the handle with athletic tape, and used gloves. The ROM is about 3 inches up and down, so up and down that 3 inches is one rep.

90 x 10 Flexion

90 x 10 Supination

135 x 10 Flexion

135 x 10 Supination

180 x 10 Flexion

180 x 10 Supination

225 x 5 Flexion

225 x 0 Sup (My extensors aren't strong enough to do it this way)

Do you mean extension instead of supination?

[Wes]

Yup-

[unseenbeat]

Lol, glad to be of help. Tommorrow, me and Scott and Joel are gonna get together and work out some more. Scott has short arms! He was in the bottom of a deep squat and still was hunched over when we were trying to teach him to deadlift! Plus, he is a bit inflexible, and thus kept coming up on his toes. I think I'm going to teach him how to deadlift sumo, I think that'd work better for his body type.

[Wes]

I need to get outta this house man! Think one of you all could pick me up tomm?

[unseenbeat]

I need to get outta this house man! Think one of you all could pick me up tomm?

I dunno, probably. We also might go to the rock gym, I know you couldn't do much of that, but afterwards you could hang with the rest of us.

If we did pick ya up, it'd be kinda early I'm sure. Me and Scott would probably roll over.

[Geo]

Twice, one day machines and the other grippers, with wrist rolling on a diff. day.

Well done for undertaking this task I hope you succeed! Joes part of the COC book is one of the best pieces of writing on training ever.

However if your gripper training is just what I have quoted above then you arent doing what Joe did in order to crush the #4. Dont forget Joe squatted 20 - 30 reps every morning before breakfast to build test- every day . I dont know of anyone else that has done this (?anyone know?) But I have replicated his grip training methods without the daily squatting - and have not found it beneficial. Before I started a log here I got up to 55 sets of negs twice a week. It certainly conditioned my hands! but I injured my middle finger tendon quite badly and couldnt train for a while. My hands just felt knackered all the time and they got more and more so until I got an injury.

I think maybe the key to Joes success was not just the negatives but the negatives combined with the high rep squatting -every day.

On another note I cant get on with the electrical tape - I find my pinky slips off all the time.

There isn't anything secret about Kinney's success, he found a perfect way for him to make progress. It isn't the one and only way to train for success with big grippers. I think the most important part of Joe's wisdom that he has shared is the mindgame: attempts where you give only 99% effort aren't useful, so you better make each and every attempt your best. I've personally noticed, that it's the hardest part. I find myself becoming more and more able to push myself, as I've worked real hard to make my mindset right. All the volume alone is not what makes the difference, yes, squats and other stuff that makes you stronger all over are important, but I think that it's mostly about right mindset. I think it's better to do five severe negatives, where you know for sure that you have done it right than it is to do 55 negatives while your peaceful and happy. That's the "secret" of Holle brothers also, discipline to give each and every attempt everything you got. That isn't easy, I find myself learning to give more day by day. I previously thought I was giving it all I got, but actually, I haven't.

I am not saying that someone couldnt carry on with this way of training without doing the squats and have success. Maybe it is possible, who knows. However Joe even says it in his book. something along the lines of "the more he squatted the more the gains kept on coming" The point I was making is that this type of training is pushing yourself beyond your limits (which is cool) however it is very tough to recover from. Squatting helps recovery and this IMO is what helped Joe suceed.

Is it possible to do 55 sets of negatives twice a week for 3 months or so and be peaceful and happy?. When I was training like that My hands split open every week, I tore a huge piece of skin off my palm that took 6 weeks to heal, when i would finish my hands shook and I poured with sweat everytime I trained.

Whatever the case I wish Wes all the best with his training, I hope you smash your 4.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Geo

[Wes]

Thanks Geo-

I'll get up with you later Tim

[Teemu I]

Twice, one day machines and the other grippers, with wrist rolling on a diff. day.

Well done for undertaking this task I hope you succeed! Joes part of the COC book is one of the best pieces of writing on training ever.

However if your gripper training is just what I have quoted above then you arent doing what Joe did in order to crush the #4. Dont forget Joe squatted 20 - 30 reps every morning before breakfast to build test- every day . I dont know of anyone else that has done this (?anyone know?) But I have replicated his grip training methods without the daily squatting - and have not found it beneficial. Before I started a log here I got up to 55 sets of negs twice a week. It certainly conditioned my hands! but I injured my middle finger tendon quite badly and couldnt train for a while. My hands just felt knackered all the time and they got more and more so until I got an injury.

I think maybe the key to Joes success was not just the negatives but the negatives combined with the high rep squatting -every day.

On another note I cant get on with the electrical tape - I find my pinky slips off all the time.

There isn't anything secret about Kinney's success, he found a perfect way for him to make progress. It isn't the one and only way to train for success with big grippers. I think the most important part of Joe's wisdom that he has shared is the mindgame: attempts where you give only 99% effort aren't useful, so you better make each and every attempt your best. I've personally noticed, that it's the hardest part. I find myself becoming more and more able to push myself, as I've worked real hard to make my mindset right. All the volume alone is not what makes the difference, yes, squats and other stuff that makes you stronger all over are important, but I think that it's mostly about right mindset. I think it's better to do five severe negatives, where you know for sure that you have done it right than it is to do 55 negatives while your peaceful and happy. That's the "secret" of Holle brothers also, discipline to give each and every attempt everything you got. That isn't easy, I find myself learning to give more day by day. I previously thought I was giving it all I got, but actually, I haven't.

I am not saying that someone couldnt carry on with this way of training without doing the squats and have success. Maybe it is possible, who knows. However Joe even says it in his book. something along the lines of "the more he squatted the more the gains kept on coming" The point I was making is that this type of training is pushing yourself beyond your limits (which is cool) however it is very tough to recover from. Squatting helps recovery and this IMO is what helped Joe suceed.

Is it possible to do 55 sets of negatives twice a week for 3 months or so and be peaceful and happy?. When I was training like that My hands split open every week, I tore a huge piece of skin off my palm that took 6 weeks to heal, when i would finish my hands shook and I poured with sweat everytime I trained.

Whatever the case I wish Wes all the best with his training, I hope you smash your 4.

Yeah, I totally understand your point, I have also read many times what Kinney wrote in that book. I DO think squats are important, but point I tried to make is that success is about all the little details combined and IMO mindgame is the part that is hardest and the part where most people fail.

My example about doing 55 negatives and beeing happy at the same time and all was intentionally a bit out of perspective, I've done enough negatives to know that no matter how you do them, you'll get beaten up, but there's still a difference between a negative and THE NEGATIVE if you know what I mean. You have to have a mindset where you don't even notice how much they hurt. That's something of a skill I try to develop, I say try because it isn't easy at all.

Sorry Wes for writing this to your log..keep up the good war!!!

[Wes]

I did a "recooping" session, something to give my palm a rest. I filed my #3 to get some BTR strength, and I filed a good bit of it off. I closed it for probably 10 singles, and tried for reps, and got 4 opening to paralell. I came within a 16th lefty, so my left hand is slowly getting up to speed. I attempted the dud and got it to a 16th. It has a weird spongy last 1/4 inch which is hard as hell! The sweep isn't that bad.

[Wes]

I did some sqattin' today, I don't have any racks, so I just clean the weight and press it and drop it behind my neck. I'll see if it affects my gripping.

135x20 Olympic Squat (hi bar, narrow stance, atg)

Edited July 18, 2006 by Wes

[TelegraphKey]

Wes, I guess the nice thing about having no squat racks is that you can just drop the weight off your back if you get in any trouble. I think Arnold (and, really, all the old time strongmen) squatted without any racks (Arnold & his boys squatted barefoot in the Black Forest of Bavaria until they could lift no more). But you might see if you can use blocks or sawhorses or something to hold the bar until you get it on your back, so you can do more weight, even if you don't have a rack to spot yourself. If it were me, I'd also try to always have someone spotting me, in case I get too bent over to drop the bar off my back. Good luck.

[Wes]

Thanks Jim : It's not that hard to dump a sunk squat, I just sink down to the bottom and lean back a bit and just let the barbell fall.

I did some pressing today, I'm considering entering the Georgia's Strongest Man contest as a Novice Teen Lightweight, so it can't hurt to work on my pressing.

Military Press, weight was hang cleaned in position

135x3 plus 5 or 6 singles performed throughout the day

140x1

145x2

150x1 PR!!!! My old military press at the absolute best was 135 a couple of weeks ago, and I've gained 15lbs on it just by working my CNS. I would leave 135 sitting outside every day, and when ever I went outsside I would do 1 rep in the clean and military press several times a day.. GtG works!

Push Press, my legs were still screwed up from the squatting yesterday, so I could probably put a good bit more weight on these. It was hang cleaned in position

135x5

150x5

170x5

I called up a metal supply place, and they said 7' of 1 and 15/16th CRS would run me $63, and my dad can weld the collars, so I will have a solid 2'' thick bar for less than $70. They have to order it though, so it will take a while to get here. I'm aching to see what I can DL on this!

[Wes]

Did some squatting when I woke up this morning

140x20 (HB, ATG Style)

Grippers:

#4 negatives x 60

I got my Rolling Thunder from Jedd, this is the first time I've used one of these.

135x5

160x5

170x2

180x1 My hands were fried to begin with, and this was as much as I could pull.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Wes

[Ivarboneless]

Keep chopping down that #4 !!

[TelegraphKey]

You did SIXTY negatives with a #4????

[Wes]

Yep Jim, my hand is still sore

I'm heading out tommorrow to North Carolina for a week or so of camping, and while I'm up there, I'm going to go hang out with Tommy Heslep and try some grippers, see if I can lift the Inch and see if I can pry any training secrets out of him Should be fun, I'm going to bring all of my grippers so I won't be missing any workouts. Trying my RT the other day really fried my forearms for some reason, but I did some gripper work today anyway. I didn't do any negs, but I screwed around with my filed #3 a bit. No set it a few times, closed it inverted and regular as well. Here's where it gets interesting, I was looking at old pics of david erives 2 fingering a #3 and I was wondering if I could do it, so I tried. I managed to hold it at ~1/4''with my index and middle fingers. I think that if I worked on this, I could 2 finger a #3 fairly quickly.

[Alawadhi]

don't forget to ask tommy to show you some magic tricks. have fun