slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Technically isn’t under the chin braced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, slazbob said: Technically isn’t under the chin braced? Nope, if it were bent behind the neck and around (like the old time strongman steel bending comp) then yes. Edited February 27, 2022 by bruce1337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Examples of braced 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) With DO your hands and arms do the work, the fulcrum is your index+middle finger, and its all on your wrist and knuckle to bear the load. Just because the steel is touching my neck does not mean im using my neck to push against the ends of the bar for support. Edited February 27, 2022 by bruce1337 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, bruce1337 said: Nope, if it were bent behind the neck and around (like the old time strongman steel bending comp) then yes. David mentioned Brookfield’s bend as slightly braced in his blueprint video because his hands touched his belly. Let’s just say the chin is making a fulcrum point so to speak. When long putters came out and they were bracing the grip to their sternum they were making everything on the greens on the senior tours back then. When they made them not let the top of the putter touch anymore, they were not as good. So iron mind isn’t the only people who like to change rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 When something is an a mechanical advantage it must be reeled in. What about a big dude who is super strong in the upper body who can’t get his hands up that high? Does that explain why the gold hasn’t been certified? I think it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, bruce1337 said: With DO your hands and arms do the work, the fulcrum is your index+middle finger, and its all on your wrist and knuckle to bear the load. Just because the steel is touching my neck does not mean im using my neck to push against the ends of the bar for support. Again, Bruce…I’m not saying you’re not a strong guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Slazbob, so you would like to see a rule change where you can still DO but it has to be done a little lower on the lower part of yoir chest instead of the higher point of your chest? How would that involve more wrist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, David_wigren said: Slazbob, so you would like to see a rule change where you can still DO but it has to be done a little lower on the lower part of yoir chest instead of the higher point of your chest? How would that involve more wrist? It would invoke the exact same stress on the wrist, fingers and hands. But you will just have less overall power due to lack of upper body involvement. The only way to add "more wrist" is to make the bending technique wraps touching slim style. Edited February 27, 2022 by bruce1337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, David_wigren said: Slazbob, so you would like to see a rule change where you can still DO but it has to be done a little lower on the lower part of yoir chest instead of the higher point of your chest? How would that involve more wrist? You wouldn’t be able to use forces from upper body as much. The chest crush would be a lot less. More flexion of the wrist also would be needed. big bend guy usually have some over hang of the pads and drive the heel pad against it in a crush in. With it low you really have to drive down with the heels of the hand and up with the index fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 It’s definitely bad ass to do it that way. Has anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, slazbob said: When something is an a mechanical advantage it must be reeled in. What about a big dude who is super strong in the upper body who can’t get his hands up that high? Does that explain why the gold hasn’t been certified? I think it does. Just because it's a mechanical advantage doesn't mean you have the finger, hand and wrist strength (not to mention skin toughness) to pull it off. A strong DO bender put together a strong upper body, extremely good wrist and hand strength, and optimal technique to get the bar moving. And in the eyes of the steel bending community, bending a gold nail with ironmind pads is nothing short of world class. You seem to keep forgetting that the rule change was sparked by Randalls hatred of ONE guy who attempted to cert gold nail and he could't bear to see him on his list. Imagine if just moments before Eddie Halls 500kg deadlift, the competition organiser changed the rules so that Eddie couldn't wear figure 8 straps simply because he didn't like him. This is essentially whats happening right now and is the reason why so many of us are in disbelief. Edited February 27, 2022 by bruce1337 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Why do they only use half of the wrap? All that space between the wraps. I think that should be a measured thing as well maybe 1” over hang for protection from the end. you guys can maybe explain why that is? a 2” over hang isn’t needed when the pad is folded by 3. Plus the ends are not jagged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, bruce1337 said: Just because it's a mechanical advantage doesn't mean you have the finger, hand and wrist strength (not to mention skin toughness) to pull it off. A strong DO bender put together a strong upper body, extremely good wrist and hand strength, and optimal technique to get the bar moving. And in the eyes of the steel bending community, bending a gold nail with ironmind pads is nothing short of world class. You seem to keep forgetting that the rule change was sparked by Randalls hatred of ONE guy who attempted to cert gold nail and he could't bear to see him on his list. Imagine if just moments before Eddie Halls 500kg deadlift, the competition organiser changed the rules so that Eddie couldn't wear figure 8 straps simply because he didn't like him. This is essentially whats happening right now and is the reason why so many of us are in disbelief. Is that Derek Graybill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, bruce1337 said: Just because it's a mechanical advantage doesn't mean you have the finger, hand and wrist strength (not to mention skin toughness) to pull it off. A strong DO bender put together a strong upper body, extremely good wrist and hand strength, and optimal technique to get the bar moving. And in the eyes of the steel bending community, bending a gold nail with ironmind pads is nothing short of world class. You seem to keep forgetting that the rule change was sparked by Randalls hatred of ONE guy who attempted to cert gold nail and he could't bear to see him on his list. Imagine if just moments before Eddie Halls 500kg deadlift, the competition organiser changed the rules so that Eddie couldn't wear figure 8 straps simply because he didn't like him. This is essentially whats happening right now and is the reason why so many of us are in disbelief. Well usually rule changes come in organized sports every year or more years…but they do change. Let’s not forget this happens in the off-season, and iron mind doesn’t have that luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 46 minutes ago, slazbob said: Well usually rule changes come in organized sports every year or more years…but they do change. Let’s not forget this happens in the off-season, and iron mind doesn’t have that luxury. Yes rules change, but not out of spite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 32 minutes ago, bruce1337 said: Yes rules change, but not out of spite. Is that an assumption or fact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 If it’s the guy I asked you about it would make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 19 minutes ago, slazbob said: Is that Derek Graybill? Here is a link to Derek's Instagram. https://www.instagram.com/p/CaSJBN6lS57/ If Derek performed everything required from IronMind's certification process, and they decided to change the rules because of him, shame on them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Pete Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) This is so stupid. There are so many different styles and challenges in steel bending. So much to learn and so much to go after, or just focus on the styles that attracts you. Some of those disciplines are extremely taxing on the wrist. Like wraps touching double underhand and reverse. Then there are styles that is not mainly a test of wrist strength. Forearm, wrist and handstrength and toughness will play a part in all styles, but the amount it requires will vary. Steel bending is a small sport. We are a few guys in the world that is really passionate about this endeuover. We are trying to keep guys motivated by making cert list of our own. Trying to make it develop and expand. Since IM has been accepting DO of the style that we are seeing today for what, 20 years? How could they change the rules now without scraping the entier list? Why limit steel bending to a test of wrist strength when it can be a test of your mental toughness and overall body strenght. Edited February 27, 2022 by Slippery Pete 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, John McCarter said: Here is a link to Derek's Instagram. https://www.instagram.com/p/CaSJBN6lS57/ If Derek performed everything required from IronMind's certification process, and they decided to change the rules because of him, shame on them. I did watch a video of him bending a gold from months ago, John. He was berating Randall and iron mind for half of it. So it isn’t surprising that Randall would feel the way some are saying. But they did the same thing to a guy certing the no.3 changing the way most swiped the card mid cert. didn’t give a heads up to him either. He swiped it as good as anyone and they didn’t accept it. Like I said to Bruce, rule changes happen on the fly for iron mind because they don’t have a cert season. You must be prepared for curveballs. If it means that much to That guy, he’ll make the changes and Randall will have no place else to go…that is, of course, if it’s really intentional, which I don’t believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 minute ago, slazbob said: I did watch a video of him bending a gold from months ago, John. He was berating Randall and iron mind for half of it. So it isn’t surprising that Randall would feel the way some are saying. But they did the same thing to a guy certing the no.3 changing the way most swiped the card mid cert. didn’t give a heads up to him either. He swiped it as good as anyone and they didn’t accept it. Like I said to Bruce, rule changes happen on the fly for iron mind because they don’t have a cert season. You must be prepared for curveballs. If it means that much to That guy, he’ll make the changes and Randall will have no place else to go…that is, of course, if it’s really intentional, which I don’t believe. I'm not arguing against rule changes. I understand rules do change. But changing the rules must reflect an issue that must be addressed. If it's because of the "double overhand" method, or the pads, fine, change it, but don't allow it to stay in place for 2 decades. Again, if a person met the requirement according to the "established" rules, pass them or fail them based on what they did for the certification. If IronMind decides to change those rules because of a single person because how they "feel" towards that said person, it reflects badly upon the company. Derek and Randall's issues between one another, that is none of my concern. If Derek wants to scream at the top of his lunges the most obscene language towards Randall's behavior as the CEO of IronMind and the practices of that company, he can do that. If Randall wants nothing to do with Derek, ban him from ever attempting a certification attempt, period. But if Randall allowed a certification attempt to happen on the Gold Nail, and decided they must change the rules because of their feelings towards Derek, again, shame on them for doing that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, John McCarter said: I'm not arguing against rule changes. I understand rules do change. But changing the rules must reflect an issue that must be addressed. If it's because of the "double overhand" method, or the pads, fine, change it, but don't allow it to stay in place for 2 decades. Again, if a person met the requirement according to the "established" rules, pass them or fail them based on what they did for the certification. If IronMind decides to change those rules because of a single person because how they "feel" towards that said person, it reflects badly upon the company. Derek and Randall's issues between one another, that is none of my concern. If Derek wants to scream at the top of his lunges the most obscene language towards Randall's behavior as the CEO of IronMind and the practices of that company, he can do that. If Randall wants nothing to do with Derek, ban him from ever attempting a certification attempt, period. But if Randall allowed a certification attempt to happen on the Gold Nail, and decided they must change the rules because of their feelings towards Derek, again, shame on them for doing that. We don’t know. But on the other hand, Randall looks worse having someone who berated him and his company, now the face of his bending certification. Even though this is speculative. Randall should have the right to do what he’s doing. Just like Derek has the right to voice his opinion on the company. what would Bill do in the instance of someone bashing him and the board but signs up for the MM cert? Would they still let them? He should have the right to reject them without judgment. again, just speculation. But if you feel that happened to you, because of hard feelings, in the back of your mind, you knew this day would come…or it would have never crossed your mind it was intentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Did he actually get the nail sent and certified, but they failed it? Is there a video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 minute ago, slazbob said: Did he actually get the nail sent and certified, but they failed it? Is there a video? I think Derek will be on Beyond the Bend podcast to clear the air about what happened. Stay tuned and find out I guess. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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