Ironmind bending certs

[climber511]

I’m older than dirt and have lived through a lot of change in every area of sport.  I used to pole vault into a sawdust pit on a rigid aluminum pole (and bamboo at one point).  I ran on cider tracks and occasionally on dirt.  And watched in fascination as the sport of Power Lifting went from none to one to god knows how many federations because different people thought they had better ideas.  I (like many of you) went through the Ironmind COC cert debacle and am now watching the same happen with bending.  It’s human nature to take advantage of anything that we can.  Grippers at one point were pretty much being closed with two hands and held with one long enough to take a still picture (an exaggeration I know).   So “we” changed our rules to try and prevent that – IM changed theirs even more to start the Credit Card Cert.  And with video being so easy to do now days that also became part of the proof process.  Bending has undergone many changes as well – with wraps probably the most and then moving to high under the chin double overhand technique.  Every change made over the years has been made to allow us to run faster – jump higher – throw further – lift more – close bigger grippers – bend bigger steel – then  in the normal course of things comes a push to limit such.  And as long as we compare apples to apples I can’t work up the energy to care all that much.  To be honest when I started bending I (like about everyone) used double leather wraps – crush pads – wraps about any length etc.  So to me – I don’t care what IM does – but I have issues with comparing feats done under different settings.  If there is a rule change of any consequence I think there should be a new list made stating the rules used at the time.  I believe we (meaning GB and the serious benders here etc) have a pretty good handle on a rule set after people that truly are in the know have come up with the rules we now have.   

[Cannon]

24 minutes ago, slazbob said:

Thanks, Matt. 
but the educated man is trying to insult my intelligence by calling me “dumb” which is stupid I think he should stay out of this since he doesn’t know the difference between the two.

I'm just trying to focus the discussion on what could come out of this. We can have a good ole squabble here but if people are submitting their opinions directly to IronMind, regardless of what they are, that seems like time better spent. For me personally, I'm pretty uneducated about bending. I hope IronMind is getting good feedback from all sides and that they take the community voice into their final considerations. 

[bruce1337]

10 minutes ago, Cannon said:

I'm just trying to focus the discussion on what could come out of this. We can have a good ole squabble here but if people are submitting their opinions directly to IronMind, regardless of what they are, that seems like time better spent. For me personally, I'm pretty uneducated about bending. I hope IronMind is getting good feedback from all sides and that they take the community voice into their final considerations. 

This is my hope as well. Only other thing we can do is wait patiently for the next update (and share memes)

[bruce1337]

15 minutes ago, climber511 said:

I’m older than dirt and have lived through a lot of change in every area of sport.  I used to pole vault into a sawdust pit on a rigid aluminum pole (and bamboo at one point).  I ran on cider tracks and occasionally on dirt.  And watched in fascination as the sport of Power Lifting went from none to one to god knows how many federations because different people thought they had better ideas.  I (like many of you) went through the Ironmind COC cert debacle and am now watching the same happen with bending.  It’s human nature to take advantage of anything that we can.  Grippers at one point were pretty much being closed with two hands and held with one long enough to take a still picture (an exaggeration I know).   So “we” changed our rules to try and prevent that – IM changed theirs even more to start the Credit Card Cert.  And with video being so easy to do now days that also became part of the proof process.  Bending has undergone many changes as well – with wraps probably the most and then moving to high under the chin double overhand technique.  Every change made over the years has been made to allow us to run faster – jump higher – throw further – lift more – close bigger grippers – bend bigger steel – then  in the normal course of things comes a push to limit such.  And as long as we compare apples to apples I can’t work up the energy to care all that much.  To be honest when I started bending I (like about everyone) used double leather wraps – crush pads – wraps about any length etc.  So to me – I don’t care what IM does – but I have issues with comparing feats done under different settings.  If there is a rule change of any consequence I think there should be a new list made stating the rules used at the time.  I believe we (meaning GB and the serious benders here etc) have a pretty good handle on a rule set after people that truly are in the know have come up with the rules we now have.   

Couldn't have said it better myself. I think the biggest takeaway is that we, as a bending community, will always be at the forefront of progress and its for the other companies that start cert lists to follow our example.

[David_wigren]

1 hour ago, slazbob said:

Thanks, Matt. 
but the educated man is trying to insult my intelligence by calling me “dumb” which is stupid I think he should stay out of this since he doesn’t know the difference between the two.

I didn’t call you dumb. I called what you are doing dumb, there is a difference. I did however say that you didn’t know much about the subject, which you don’t. Trust me, you don’t even know what you don’t know. There are many levels to this and I assure you, your ideas have already been tested and failed.

At this point I almost want Ironmind to ruin their own list. By the sounds of their news update I doubt they are capable to formulate a set of rules that wouldn’t just turn into an absolute shit show. 

We all know what this is really about. Ironmind is reluctant to credit Derek as a certified gold nail bender and they are willing to change the rules for it. Randall and Derek had a falling out over a decade ago and now Randall wants to use his position to mess with Derek.

 

[slazbob]

1 hour ago, Cannon said:

I'm just trying to focus the discussion on what could come out of this. We can have a good ole squabble here but if people are submitting their opinions directly to IronMind, regardless of what they are, that seems like time better spent. For me personally, I'm pretty uneducated about bending. I hope IronMind is getting good feedback from all sides and that they take the community voice into their final considerations. 

I agree. Im definitely not in my element with bending, but gave an observation with what I do know. Hopefully they can get it right and I think they will.

[slazbob]

38 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

I didn’t call you dumb. I called what you are doing dumb, there is a difference. I did however say that you didn’t know much about the subject, which you don’t. Trust me, you don’t even know what you don’t know. There are many levels to this and I assure you, your ideas have already been tested and failed.

At this point I almost want Ironmind to ruin their own list. By the sounds of their news update I doubt they are capable to formulate a set of rules that wouldn’t just turn into an absolute shit show. 

We all know what this is really about. Ironmind is reluctant to credit Derek as a certified gold nail bender and they are willing to change the rules for it. Randall and Derek had a falling out over a decade ago and now Randall wants to use his position to mess with Derek.

 

I don’t want to discredit you or anyone on the subject. The only time I bent was when I got my bag of nails in the early ‘2000’s…I used the reverse style I guess? The kind you would use with David Horne’s gadget. I bent all the easy ones but couldn’t do the red and I was done with it. Much rather keep my hands healthy for gripping. But I think it’s a cert that should be looked into so that you know, what you thought you knew wasn’t so.

 

[David_wigren]

28 minutes ago, slazbob said:

I don’t want to discredit you or anyone on the subject. The only time I bent was when I got my bag of nails in the early ‘2000’s…I used the reverse style I guess? The kind you would use with David Horne’s gadget. I bent all the easy ones but couldn’t do the red and I was done with it. Much rather keep my hands healthy for gripping. But I think it’s a cert that should be looked into so that you know, what you thought you knew wasn’t so.

 

Did you kink them reverse and then finished double overhand or did you bend them all the way to a “U” in the reverse position? If you finished them double overhand, how far did you bend it reverse before you transitioned? 40 degrees? Did you stop to measure it before transitioning? How far do you think the bar should be bent reverse before transitioning, should ine measure this in a lengthy boring procedure? Or perhaps it’s just better to bend it to a full “U” in the reverse position. It’ll be a bit of a circus act but how else are we going to ensure that the bars aren’t being braced?

Personally I’ve bent much harder bars than the red in reverse. Small wraps, big wraps. Wraps touching in the middle, wraps on the ends, doesn’t matter, the red is easy for me. I don’t think I’ve ever bent a red to a full “U” in the reverse position though. But I did bend bars that rated the same as the easy red nail from 2019 to a full “U” in the reverse position. It wasn’t anything I trained, just something I tested for shits and giggles. I’m sure I could also do it with an average and hard red nail it was something I actually cared about doing.

[slazbob]

20 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

Did you kink them reverse and then finished double overhand or did you bend them all the way to a “U” in the reverse position? If you finished them double overhand, how far did you bend it reverse before you transitioned? 40 degrees? Did you stop to measure it before transitioning? How far do you think the bar should be bent reverse before transitioning, should ine measure this in a lengthy boring procedure? Or perhaps it’s just better to bend it to a full “U” in the reverse position. It’ll be a bit of a circus act but how else are we going to ensure that the bars aren’t being braced?

Personally I’ve bent much harder bars than the red in reverse. Small wraps, big wraps. Wraps touching in the middle, wraps on the ends, doesn’t matter, the red is easy for me. I don’t think I’ve ever bent a red to a full “U” in the reverse position though. But I did bend bars that rated the same as the easy red nail from 2019 to a full “U” in the reverse position. It wasn’t anything I trained, just something I tested for shits and giggles. I’m sure I could also do it with an average and hard red nail it was something I actually cared about doing.

Nothing was measured…I bent it until I ran out room with my hands and then crushed it down with my hands. DO I tried but don’t remember being successful at more than a kink

[slazbob]

26 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

Did you kink them reverse and then finished double overhand or did you bend them all the way to a “U” in the reverse position? If you finished them double overhand, how far did you bend it reverse before you transitioned? 40 degrees? Did you stop to measure it before transitioning? How far do you think the bar should be bent reverse before transitioning, should ine measure this in a lengthy boring procedure? Or perhaps it’s just better to bend it to a full “U” in the reverse position. It’ll be a bit of a circus act but how else are we going to ensure that the bars aren’t being braced?

Personally I’ve bent much harder bars than the red in reverse. Small wraps, big wraps. Wraps touching in the middle, wraps on the ends, doesn’t matter, the red is easy for me. I don’t think I’ve ever bent a red to a full “U” in the reverse position though. But I did bend bars that rated the same as the easy red nail from 2019 to a full “U” in the reverse position. It wasn’t anything I trained, just something I tested for shits and giggles. I’m sure I could also do it with an average and hard red nail it was something I actually cared about doing.

I’d like to see that type of wrist strength in this certification process. I think flying your elbows up in the air and crushing down with longer leverage than the bar because of the wraps,  is Not a wrist feat. You know this David, and since people in the bending community listen to you, bring those hands down. I don’t believe iron mind let’s you bend any other way than DO? I think reverse and DU is a great test of hand and wrist strength.

[David_wigren]

24 minutes ago, slazbob said:

I’d like to see that type of wrist strength in this certification process. I think flying your elbows up in the air and crushing down with longer leverage than the bar because of the wraps,  is Not a wrist feat. You know this David, and since people in the bending community listen to you, bring those hands down. I don’t believe iron mind let’s you bend any other way than DO? I think reverse and DU is a great test of hand and wrist strength.

We used to keep a list like this at the Steelbenders site about 10 years ago. But it was not possible to regulate strictly so it was mostly enforced by the simple honor system. Athletes would kink the bar to an arbitrary degree which they did not need to measure and then they finished by crushing down with a normal cheat crush, just like Brookfield did in the video you mentioned earlier. 
 

Actually, I’ve recently added double overhand bending with thick double wraps (I call them ”pipes” because the wraps are so thick) to my training regimen to strengthen my radial deviation for armwrestling. Works great. I think Thom Fingalsson (Lennix) can agree that if you bend double overhand the day before armwrestling, your radial deviation and back pressure will be affected.

[Fist of Fury]

33 minutes ago, slazbob said:

I’d like to see that type of wrist strength in this certification process. I think flying your elbows up in the air and crushing down with longer leverage than the bar because of the wraps,  is Not a wrist feat. You know this David, and since people in the bending community listen to you, bring those hands down. I don’t believe iron mind let’s you bend any other way than DO? I think reverse and DU is a great test of hand and wrist strength.

Tell that to all people who injured their wrists bending in that style.

You really like to talk shit about stuff you have no clue about.

[David_wigren]

1 minute ago, David_wigren said:

We used to keep a list like this at the Steelbenders site about 10 years ago. But it was not possible to regulate strictly so it was mostly enforced by the simple honor system. Athletes would kink the bar to an arbitrary degree which they did not need to measure and then they finished by crushing down with a normal cheat crush, just like Brookfield did in the video you mentioned earlier. 
 

Actually, I’ve recently added double overhand bending with thick double wraps (I call them ”pipes” because the wraps are so thick) to my training regimen to strengthen my radial deviation for armwrestling. Works great. I think Thom Fingalsson (Lennix) can agree that if you bend double overhand the day before armwrestling, your radial deviation and back pressure will be affected.

We called the list Terminator style to honor Pat Povilaitis. The bend would be reversed at hip level and then finished DO at chest level. Similar to how Pat did some of his earlier bend.

 

[slazbob]

14 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

We used to keep a list like this at the Steelbenders site about 10 years ago. But it was not possible to regulate strictly so it was mostly enforced by the simple honor system. Athletes would kink the bar to an arbitrary degree which they did not need to measure and then they finished by crushing down with a normal cheat crush, just like Brookfield did in the video you mentioned earlier. 
 

Actually, I’ve recently added double overhand bending with thick double wraps (I call them ”pipes” because the wraps are so thick) to my training regimen to strengthen my radial deviation for armwrestling. Works great. I think Thom Fingalsson (Lennix) can agree that if you bend double overhand the day before armwrestling, your radial deviation and back pressure will be affected.

I like attaching a loading pin to a pulley for that kind of work. 

[slazbob]

13 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Tell that to all people who injured their wrists bending in that style.

You really like to talk shit about stuff you have no clue about.

I rarely post for the most part. But every thread has you in it spewing your mouth so leave it be. 

[slazbob]

16 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Tell that to all people who injured their wrists bending in that style. 

Yeah, because it’s harder. It’s a test of strength, right? I don’t want it any easier…why would anyone? All the comments about the ccs rules also played out the same way. But people got stronger and overcame it. 
 

bending isn’t as complicated as you’re trying make it- like it’s so far beyond the realm that I don’t know what I’m saying. “You just don’t get it man!” C’mon.

[Lennix]

8 minutes ago, slazbob said:

 

bending isn’t as complicated as you’re trying make it- like it’s so far beyond the realm that I don’t know what I’m saying. “You just don’t get it man!” C’mon.

This shows that you don't know anything about DO bending. When you get higher up the technical stuff with DO bending is way harder then anything else in grip. 

[Fist of Fury]

56 minutes ago, slazbob said:

I rarely post for the most part. But every thread has you in it spewing your mouth so leave it be. 

Stop talking shit then.

49 minutes ago, slazbob said:

Yeah, because it’s harder. It’s a test of strength, right? I don’t want it any easier…why would anyone? All the comments about the ccs rules also played out the same way. But people got stronger and overcame it. 
 

bending isn’t as complicated as you’re trying make it- like it’s so far beyond the realm that I don’t know what I’m saying. “You just don’t get it man!” C’mon.

And what have you accomplished yourself? You're just another troll who haven't accomplished anything, yet you think you're an expert.

 

[Bill Piche]

15 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Stop talking shit then.

And what have you accomplished yourself? You're just another troll who haven't accomplished anything, yet you think you're an expert.

 

Um, you know we have rules here right? No personal attacks and all.  I edited your post.  

This goes to the next person who tries to personally attack another...you are going to get the boot from posting for a month.  

And, the other person won't even see what you posted because it will be vaporized first.

[Fist of Fury]

53 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

Um, you know we have rules here right? No personal attacks and all.  I edited your post.  

This goes to the next person who tries to personally attack another...you are going to get the boot from posting for a month.  

And, the other person won't even see what you posted because it will be vaporized first.

I appologize fro breaking the rules. But next time if I break the rules. It's better if you leave my post as it is and ban me. So that everyone can see what I wrote.

[slazbob]

1 hour ago, Lennix said:

This shows that you don't know anything about DO bending. When you get higher up the technical stuff with DO bending is way harder then anything else in grip. 

Enlighten me, then. Technique to me is trying to make it easier..is that what you’re referring to? I’m really curious…not one speck of sarcasm. For training you can definitely go down that road as long as you don’t get too far off the track.

[slazbob]

2 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

I appologize fro breaking the rules. But next time if I break the rules. It's better if you leave my post as it is and ban me. So that everyone can see what I wrote.

I wasn’t interested in it anyway.

[Fist of Fury]

2 minutes ago, slazbob said:

I wasn’t interested in it anyway.

If you're not interested don't reply to my comments.

And I'm pretty sure most of us here who actually bend steel aren't interested in your opinions on the matter either.

[David_wigren]

4 minutes ago, slazbob said:

Enlighten me, then. Technique to me is trying to make it easier..is that what you’re referring to? I’m really curious…not one speck of sarcasm. For training you can definitely go down that road as long as you don’t get too far off the track.

I hate olympic weightlifting. Way too much technique! They should focus on getting stronger instead of improving technique to lift those weights! 
 

I’m gonna join a weightlifting forum and remind them on how they’re all doing it wrong!

[slazbob]

1 minute ago, Fist of Fury said:

If you're not interested don't reply to my comments.

And I'm pretty sure most of us here who actually bend steel aren't interested in your opinions on the matter either.

That’s fine…people that believe in Bigfoot also don’t like it when I tell them the truth. I’m talking about hand and wrist strength not a shoulder and chest feat. What are you defending here, actually? I never said anything about steel benders being weak …it’s just become more and different than it was set out to be. What’s wrong with that? You talk about people hurting their wrist doing DO bending…that’s a strength issue, not an technical issue. Has anyone hurt their wrist bending an coat hanger? No.