moser1972 Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 On which comp Dickey Oskarsson had qualified? LGC? Dickey took first and Jörgen third place in the Nerikes grip championship #2 (NGC) hold in Vretstorp (Örebro) 8th of october 2005. I don't understand why You ask this question but here You are... Thanks. Very simple Burkhard. I asked because I was not sure. I only had heard that he is a very strong guy in overall, esp. in FatBar and Pinch. Again, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 (edited) On which comp Dickey Oskarsson had qualified? LGC? Dickey took first and Jörgen third place in the Nerikes grip championship #2 (NGC) hold in Vretstorp (Örebro) 8th of october 2005. I don't understand why You ask this question but here You are... Moreover, it is borderline silly talking about qualifying competitions when there is not even 12 competitors willing to compete in the Euros this year. I think it is excellent that Dickey decided to pay a considerable amount of money just to compete in a grip comp in Germany. Pointless discussing qualifying competitions for the Euros unless there is a queue. The whole qualifying requirement rule is effectively sunk by you (English) guys not showing up. Why not add a couple of local Germans to make it 12 competitors? England is fading away on the European grip scene. Sad but true. The question was asked by a German not one of 'you English guys'. And of those English guys that have competed it's been me more often than not. Now I have an opportunity to put on, together with a few others, a display that will be seen by many 100's as opposed to say 20 that might both attend and watch the Euros. Some of those watching have seen my grip exhibitions (including a crowd of 150 or more) and which have made the local papers. You may also recall my similar comment to your own in my trying to persuade Andy to attend. While I agree in principle with you the comments do not encourage attendance. Who knows what will happen next year. I have already had several approaches from those wishing to compete as novices next year. However, the bottom line is my form has gone to shit in the last few weeks and as such together with this chance for a major display of strength (plus the money raised by the children sponsoring us goes towards equipment for a hospital) makes my decision that much easier. Edited August 2, 2006 by mobsterone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkhardmacht Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 On which comp Dickey Oskarsson had qualified? LGC? Dickey took first and Jörgen third place in the Nerikes grip championship #2 (NGC) hold in Vretstorp (Örebro) 8th of october 2005. I don't understand why You ask this question but here You are... Moreover, it is borderline silly talking about qualifying competitions when there is not even 12 competitors willing to compete in the Euros this year. I think it is excellent that Dickey decided to pay a considerable amount of money just to compete in a grip comp in Germany. Pointless discussing qualifying competitions for the Euros unless there is a queue. The whole qualifying requirement rule is effectively sunk by you (English) guys not showing up. Why not add a couple of local Germans to make it 12 competitors? England is fading away on the European grip scene. Sad but true. I always wondered what would happen if Dickey will compete in a big international contest - now we will have an opportunity to see what's going on in this case. I'm quite sure that there are no other German competitors who want to compete - this thread is 5,5 months old and no one except the listed competitors had shown real interest in competing. This missing interest even made me asking some people outside the gripscene - Heinz Ollesch for example. If there are no other Germans who want to compete I have no problem at all to welcome more Swedes or competitors of other nationalities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Err we both know that is not the case. As per PM and emails there is something of a split (for god only knows what reason) in the German camp that is IMO very childish and silly (hence my not replying to such PM's). We see rivalry all the time in many many sports but such is put aside when international teams are prepared. While it is impossible to like everyone you meet and compete against or even with the opportunity to represent your country is not one that happens that often and as such should be grabbed with both hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Dickey has very big and powerfull hands! Steve, be careful! Don't shake his hands! Ha ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkhardmacht Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Err we both know that is not the case.Yes, You're right but what can I say... As per PM and emails there is something of a split (for god only knows what reason) in the German camp that is IMO very childish and silly. Yes, indeed - the reasons too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Dickey has very big and powerfull hands! Steve, be careful! Don't shake his hands! Ha ha! I wont be there so it's not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Dickey has very big and powerfull hands! Steve, be careful! Don't shake his hands! Ha ha! I wont be there so it's not a problem. I know, but sooner or later..... He he! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkhardmacht Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 updated competitor list: 1. Martin Arildsson (Sweden) 2. Jens Jepsson (Sweden) 3. Jörgen Holm (Sweden) 4. Dickey Oskarsson (Sweden) 5. Johan Albrektsson (Sweden) 6. Marco Bouma (Holland) 7. Florian Kellersmann (Germany) 8. Erik Franz (Germany) 9. Martin Ressel (Germany) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 On which comp Dickey Oskarsson had qualified? LGC? Dickey took first and Jörgen third place in the Nerikes grip championship #2 (NGC) hold in Vretstorp (Örebro) 8th of october 2005. I don't understand why You ask this question but here You are... Moreover, it is borderline silly talking about qualifying competitions when there is not even 12 competitors willing to compete in the Euros this year. I think it is excellent that Dickey decided to pay a considerable amount of money just to compete in a grip comp in Germany. Pointless discussing qualifying competitions for the Euros unless there is a queue. The whole qualifying requirement rule is effectively sunk by you (English) guys not showing up. Why not add a couple of local Germans to make it 12 competitors? England is fading away on the European grip scene. Sad but true. I always wondered what would happen if Dickey will compete in a big international contest - now we will have an opportunity to see what's going on in this case. I'm quite sure that there are no other German competitors who want to compete - this thread is 5,5 months old and no one except the listed competitors had shown real interest in competing. This missing interest even made me asking some people outside the gripscene - Heinz Ollesch for example. If there are no other Germans who want to compete I have no problem at all to welcome more Swedes or competitors of other nationalities. At least on page 2 were you talking about a qualification for the euros;it would be better if it was open since the beginning for everyone and i am sure more germans would come-i do not understand even talking about a quali-this is about gripstrength-there are only few people doing this.for example for the germans(same place)there are more than 10 comp. every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 The issue with qualification is two fold. 1) There are a few German competitions which these wonderful athletes who could not be bothered to qualify at could have attended. In that way they show their support as well as try and (see point 2) give some structure to the sport. 2) If an event is going to be called a national, a European or a Wold Championships surely (at least the last two) should be events you qualify for. Mikeal made a similar statement about having an open competition and the pool of talent not being so big that we can afford to shut the doors on having a good number of competitors but what were those same potential competitors doing all bloody year that could not hold a local event and get the winners to go fordward to the German nationals and then onward to a Europen Championships? Bugger all. Instead we get snide comments about a competition you aren't involved in from someone who hasn't put on event themselves and as part of the fractions within the German groups that I referred to earlier. I've recently been reading a book (translated from Italian) by an Ironhistory author. It is set about the time of the 1904 Olympics and talks about how the Greek's favorite lifter did a bunch of tricks and fouls to favour himself. However, the book is prefaced by a chapter on the division within the sport on how, of all things, the clean was to be done. It refers to the petty rivalry and sniping between the British and the French, the French and the Germans and northern Europe with the rest of Europe. So Alexander have you competed? Did you compete in any German event this year? Have you put on a competition or is your thoughts and attitude set in 1904? I'm sure that there are a few dozen German potential athletes who could have competed but who all have an excuse as to why they did not and now wish to take part in a European level event. Even Chad, as a guest lifter, won the large hands division of the GGC (effectively the USA nationals). Next year eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I competed in the nationals in 04(3.place) and 05(9.place) and also in the RT nationals 04(3.) and 05(2.) and no one asked me to compete in the EM.I want to compete in the EM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 (edited) Without making any presumption on behalf of the organizers it is normal to qualify for a competition such as a European event by competing in the same year or as close to. It is also normal to send only those at the top level through. In other words not 9th place but from the top three unless they do not wish to compete (then 4th, 5th etc downwards are allowed). In properly organized and structured events the athletes are sponsored and supported by their federation. As there is none or there is none with the money to do so the grip athletes which currently compete do so out of their own pocket. The RT event is a single lift competition and while their is a RT lift in the European championships why did you not compete in this years (06) German nationals? As a German yourself and hopefully a follower of the sport in Germany you'll know who the German athletes are and what position they got an in what competitions. 'Wanting to compete' having managed a 9th place 2 years ago is not normally seen as a qualification nor one which is likely to honor Germany with a placing never mind a win. Further more and as discussed in some detail when our grand plans for a HHSA was trying to be set and as I stated in my previous posts in order to at least TRY and make our hobby into a potentially acceptable sport one does try and use some kind of structure for these things. Imagine explaining to a child how you came to compete in a European Championships worthy of the name 'why child I came 9th in a competition 2 years ago child' adding 'that ought to be enough'. If there was only the 9 competiting I'd keep that very quiet ha ha Edited August 3, 2006 by mobsterone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Without making any presumption on behalf of the organizers it is normal to qualify for a competition such as a European event by competing in the same year or as close to. It is also normal to send only those at the top level through. In other words not 9th place but from the top three unless they do not wish to compete (then 4th, 5th etc downwards are allowed). In properly organized and structured events the athletes are sponsored and supported by their federation. As there is none or there is none with the money to do so the grip athletes which currently compete do so out of their own pocket. The RT event is a single lift competition and while their is a RT lift in the European championships why did you not compete in this years (06) German nationals?Because the Germans 06 will be AFTER the EM!!!!!!!!!!!! As a German yourself and hopefully a follower of the sport in Germany you'll know who the German athletes are and what position they got an in what competitions. 'Wanting to compete' having managed a 9th place 2 years ago is not normally seen as a qualification nor one which is likely to honor Germany with a placing never mind a win. Further more and as discussed in some detail when our grand plans for a HHSA was trying to be set and as I stated in my previous posts in order to at least TRY and make our hobby into a potentially acceptable sport one does try and use some kind of structure for these things. Imagine explaining to a child how you came to compete in a European Championships worthy of the name 'why child I came 9th in a competition 2 years ago child' adding 'that ought to be enough'. If there was only the 9 competiting (there have been 14)I'd keep that very quiet ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 So the closest, according to you, was the 05 event in which you feel you qualified by coming 9th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moser1972 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 On one hand I read here its silly or stupid to talk about qualifications and why not to fill up the field with local Germans - and on the other site I see that it seems to be a problem when Alex want to start. We have the results from the last German Grip Champs: 1 Kellersmann Florian (start @ Euros) 2 Henritzi Frank (not able to do it) 3 Reubold Gerrit (not able to do it) 4 Ressel Martin (start @ Euros) 5 Macht Burkhard (not able to do it) 6 Becker Thomas (not able to do it) 7 Franz Erik (start @ Euros) 8 Helmbold Uwe (not sure if anyone had asked him?!) 9 Geitner Alexander (WILL START!!!) 10 Hoffmann Axel So why run around and ask non grip guys in Germany???? Ask the Grip guys! Only my 2 cents....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 When using the phrase 'on one hand or the other' it is normal practise to put two opposing views. Both your points are indentical. Are you saying that there should be no attempts at making people qualify for a Euro level event? Are you further suggesting that (as per my comment) at least the top three, if at all possible (and according to your own info the first three that were willing and able are competing) should be be those that represent your country. Or that instead the guy that came 9th is to be pushed forward bearing in mind the obvious chance he will be beaten and thus have taken a place that could have been occupied by someone who might win? It is better Moser, and I am aware that you are part of the fraction in Germany, to work with the others involved in Grip in Deutchland. Contact them and arrange between you to put on a number of all round competitions from which the top three might compete in a German nationals. By doing such work more events and thus more opportunities become available. Set aside your differences and work together towards a bigger and better time. Then in 12 months times you could easily present a team of as many as 5 or even 6 for which some small sponsorship might be provided (good for t-shirts at least) who could represent Germany and made up of the top three (on placings and lifts). There will always be personal differences between groups (as there was in 1904) but these can be set aside to further the sport). No offence to Alexander but a 9th place should be a last resort as far as a member of a German team is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moser1972 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Steve, thank you for the constructive feedback. Sorry for the 'phrase' - my english sucks sometimes First I want to agree with you, I am one of the guys who tries to make grip a bit more public here than it is, because it's worth! It's worth because the grip guys are a very special and friendly group - I saw that again and again in every grip comp i promote. And because of that, again, still only my opinion, its worth to go down the leader from place 1 from the last German Champs - Flo to the 12th or 13th place BEFORE I ask other athletes! You see the results in my last post! All the guys gave his best in Training and Grip comps. I don’t know the background why Alex made the 9th in 2K5, sure, on the first view the 9th isn't really enough for an international standard, but when I remember right Alex was 3rd (?) in the 2K4 German Grip Comp! Maybe he had an injury last German Champs, had a trainings pause, maybe other things - really not sure but it's only fair to ask the guys from the German Champs like Uwe Helmbold and Alex (because I want to promote the grip, the grip guys and not want to see athletes that are disappointed when we ask other instead of them) Steve, this is not to make things complicated or something else. Today I just shoot an email to Erik that he talks to Thomas that he starts at the Euros. I also ask Martin Kotte again. -> Yeah, sure, he is also not qualified but who can tell he is a weak one. I am not the one that blocks here, I am the one who will that we get a structure into grip and also I will that it is fair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Thorsten I personally think that you and the other Germans are doing a great job with your competitions wether they be just for fun or for nationals etc and it will be an honour to come over and enjoy a few beers with you and my other German friends in October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moser1972 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 ThorstenI personally think that you and the other Germans are doing a great job with your competitions wether they be just for fun or for nationals etc and it will be an honour to come over and enjoy a few beers with you and my other German friends in October. gazza - thanks for your kind words. I am looking forward to bend some steel and empty some beers with you and all the other competitors in october! CHEERS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I see from your response that you are as keen to get on with it as my earlier reply promoted. I agree with Gazza that ALL of the German guys are great to share a beer with hence my earlier reply at NOT responding to the PM's I had from others within the German camp about the fractions. It seems something of a shame that both parties seem as keen as each other, in their way, to do something for the sport and yet cannot see eye to eye. Ideally only the top three would go foward (or at least three as a team) but this works only if other countries are equally supportive and send athletes. In the meantime and as prefaced by my comment about my speaking before any promoter (or any party acting for the promoter - who does have email and so can join the forum) it seems to make sense that Alex contact him and asks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 I see from your response that you are as keen to get on with it as my earlier reply promoted. I agree with Gazza that ALL of the German guys are great to share a beer with hence my earlier reply at NOT responding to the PM's I had from others within the German camp about the fractions.It seems something of a shame that both parties seem as keen as each other, in their way, to do something for the sport and yet cannot see eye to eye. Ideally only the top three would go foward (or at least three as a team) but this works only if other countries are equally supportive and send athletes. In the meantime and as prefaced by my comment about my speaking before any promoter (or any party acting for the promoter - who does have email and so can join the forum) it seems to make sense that Alex contact him and asks. I sent an email to Mr Korte and i am waiting for an answer.Let us see what he is going to say? To mobsterone:Well, you are right i am not as strong as winning the Euros and perhaps i am going to be on the last place(hopefully not!) but through the lack of competitors i thought it is good enough to open the comp. to everyone who already competed in a grip comp.-we are only few people who do this sport let us work together and not get divided(like powerlifting)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moser1972 Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 I see from your response that you are as keen to get on with it as my earlier reply promoted. I agree with Gazza that ALL of the German guys are great to share a beer with hence my earlier reply at NOT responding to the PM's I had from others within the German camp about the fractions.It seems something of a shame that both parties seem as keen as each other, in their way, to do something for the sport and yet cannot see eye to eye. Ideally only the top three would go foward (or at least three as a team) but this works only if other countries are equally supportive and send athletes. In the meantime and as prefaced by my comment about my speaking before any promoter (or any party acting for the promoter - who does have email and so can join the forum) it seems to make sense that Alex contact him and asks. We have the comfortable benefit here to have 2 promotors of grip comps. Hermann Korte with the German Grip Champs and me with the MGC; Int. RT Champs and Nail Bending Champs. When you talk about two parties and mean that, than I agree with you. When you mean 2 parties and mean a fight against them, then i disagree. Sure, I would made some things complete differnet than Mr Korte, but that is not the point because I am not involved in the Euro planning. Theres no problem between us. The thing is that we both have nothing to do with each other. Maybe it would make more sense to contact him earlier to help him with the EURO but the question is if he agreed with that. Another thing is that I say what I think and that make me some problems in some cases it seems to me And when I see that we have a strong grip freak that is willing to start I cannot say nothing Steve. But now its important to get together all the things and promote a great competition so that all athletes have fun to come, have a great lifting time, a nice time after the comp so that they have the Euros in a good mind. I fully agree that Alex' start is a promoter decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkhardmacht Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 We should talk about the European Grip Championships in this thread - not about divergent interests in the gripscene. So stop spamming this thread with offtopic things and open a new thread Thorsten! BTW the reasons for not competing Thorsten mentioned are not right: 1 Kellersmann Florian (start @ Euros) 2 Henritzi Frank (no interest and injured) 3 Reubold Gerrit (not able to do it) 4 Ressel Martin (start @ Euros) 5 Macht Burkhard (able to do it but other guys like Erik and Tom wanted to compete, in the meantime not able to compete any more) 6 Becker Thomas (sometimes interested, sometimes not - obviously not able to make a decision ) 7 Franz Erik (start @ Euros) 8 Helmbold Uwe (he never showed interest, in my opinion he is not strong enough - look at the comp results) 9 Geitner Alexander (we will see what happens and it depends on the organizers decision) 10 Hoffmann Axel (don't know the reasons, I tried to contact him without success) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moser1972 Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 We should talk about the European Grip Championships in this thread - not about divergent interests in the gripscene. So stop spamming this thread with offtopic things and open a new thread Thorsten!BTW the reasons for not competing Thorsten mentioned are not right: 1 Kellersmann Florian (start @ Euros) 2 Henritzi Frank (no interest and injured) 3 Reubold Gerrit (not able to do it) 4 Ressel Martin (start @ Euros) 5 Macht Burkhard (able to do it but other guys like Erik and Tom wanted to compete, in the meantime not able to compete any more) 6 Becker Thomas (sometimes interested, sometimes not - obviously not able to make a decision ) 7 Franz Erik (start @ Euros) 8 Helmbold Uwe (he never showed interest, in my opinion he is not strong enough - look at the comp results) 9 Geitner Alexander (we will see what happens and it depends on the organizers decision) 10 Hoffmann Axel (don't know the reasons, I tried to contact him without success) No need for a new topic. I think all is said with your kind words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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