Ironmind bending certs

[bruce1337]

27 minutes ago, climber511 said:

Just for the heck of it I just tried a Blue Nail under the new rules - brutal!  No go at all with what I would call DO from the start.  I then did reverse to around the 40 degree mark and then switched to low DO - with zero contact at stomach level and the stupid loose wraps all I did was spin across (couldn't get stable) - as soon as I made contact with my abs I was able to finish but it was WAY harder.   I've not been bending but it was a Blue Nail - not exactly a normally tough bend in any fashion.  The position does make it tougher but I think I could adapt to that somewhat - but the new wrapping method really sucked.  It wasn't the length as much as the looseness.

They allow you to chalk the pads so i guess if you had some really good quality chalk and you covered that pad with a massive layer of chalk I think it would help with slipping

Edited March 9, 2022 by bruce1337

[climber511]

16 minutes ago, bruce1337 said:

They allow you to chalk the pads so i guess if you had some really good quality chalk and you covered that pad with a massive layer of chalk I think it would help with slipping

These were older pads but I simply "folded" them - almost zero overhanging off the ends and touching in the middle.  They had been chalked earlier but no more added this time - I'll trying a loose "wrapping" later  - interested in seeing what others think when they try just folding the pads - loose wrapping the pads - and single pad.  I'm guessing single pads will be more secure but no doubt more painful.

[stranger]

My attempt at the new rules with a soft 60d . 

 

 

 

[Jermiah Merciconah]

6 minutes ago, stranger said:

My attempt at the new rules with a soft 60d . 

 

 

 

Completely off topic you look like Dave Chaffee when you're bending

[bruce1337]

5 hours ago, stranger said:

My attempt at the new rules with a soft 60d . 

 

 

 

It's so hard to not touch your body or stay below the sternum. Have no idea if a judge would claim that this would be a good bend or not.

[anwnate]

25 minutes ago, bruce1337 said:

It's so hard to not touch your body or stay below the sternum. Have no idea if a judge would claim that this would be a good bend or not.

"... the hands should be roughly between waist and sternum height."

You do not need to be below the sterum. However, above the sternum is no longer acceptable. It was written "roughly" to account for different styles of bending. (Verified)

That said, dropping the nail to the chest area will definitely create a MUCH more challenging DO bend. This will be harder to overcome than acclimating to the different wrap rules.

[Tommy J.]

Question-

has anyone verified if we can use a single wrap the way we’ve been doing it for years?

@stranger I noticed folded the ends of the wrap in so no wrap hangover off the end of the nail was happening. Is this how the rules say a single wrap must be done?

I’ll play ball whatever way is accepted. But I’d like to clarify the single wrap rule(s) before I dedicate any time to something that’s not allowed.

trying to clarify here because, so far, I suspect the single wrap may be the most consistent way to do it vs the bs loose folding method that’s lined out for using two pads. That and many of us are already familiar with the single wrap thing.

 

if you guys can’t tell, I’m disinterested in groveling about it. Admittedly, I’d love to participate in the different directions the chat has gone… but… I feel I should instead laser focus on clapping back with a cert bend under the new rules. So to get a W for OUR (the steelbending community) team.

 

once we figure it out, I vote that we flood the cert list like an army of pissed off Berserkers. So to send a clear and concise message that we ARE strong!

 

as I said before, I stopped reading at page 6. So I don’t know what all was hashed out… but I assume everyone here is sort of on the same page, mostly? It not, start sticking together. And make this happen en masse.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Tommy J.

[bruce1337]

41 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Question-

has anyone verified if we can use a single wrap the way we’ve been doing it for years?

@stranger I noticed folded the ends of the wrap in so no wrap hangover off the end of the nail was happening. Is this how the rules say a single wrap must be done?

I’ll play ball whatever way is accepted. But I’d like to clarify the single wrap rule(s) before I dedicate any time to something that’s not allowed.

trying to clarify here because, so far, I suspect the single wrap may be the most consistent way to do it vs the bs loose folding method that’s lined out for using two pads. That and many of us are already familiar with the single wrap thing.

Hi Tommy.

Yes it states that the overhang must be folded back into the centre so there no "folding" action happening with the bend.

[Jermiah Merciconah]

The issue i'm seeing with that point of view and its one i've spoken to other benders about, Is that if people just suck it up as they had done in the past with the CCS rule, It continues the precedent that randall can change what he wants at a whim and people can't do anything about it

[stranger]

4 hours ago, anwnate said:

"... the hands should be roughly between waist and sternum height."

You do not need to be below the sterum. However, above the sternum is no longer acceptable. It was written "roughly" to account for different styles of bending. (Verified)

That said, dropping the nail to the chest area will definitely create a MUCH more challenging DO bend. This will be harder to overcome than acclimating to the different wrap rules.

So here the issue with how that's written. They use the word 'should'. When the word 'should' is used then it's a recommendation, an therefore doesn't have to be followed. If they used the word 'shall' then it would be a solid rule, not a recommendation but a must. I'm not sure if Ironmind knows this or not. 

Hey @Vinnie, you're a lawyer, right? Am I correct in my interpretation of that wording? 

Should- request

Shall- have to

[stranger]

1 hour ago, Tommy J. said:

Question-

has anyone verified if we can use a single wrap the way we’ve been doing it for years?

@stranger I noticed folded the ends of the wrap in so no wrap hangover off the end of the nail was happening. Is this how the rules say a single wrap must be done?

I’ll play ball whatever way is accepted. But I’d like to clarify the single wrap rule(s) before I dedicate any time to something that’s not allowed.

trying to clarify here because, so far, I suspect the single wrap may be the most consistent way to do it vs the bs loose folding method that’s lined out for using two pads. That and many of us are already familiar with the single wrap thing.

 

if you guys can’t tell, I’m disinterested in groveling about it. Admittedly, I’d love to participate in the different directions the chat has gone… but… I feel I should instead laser focus on clapping back with a cert bend under the new rules. So to get a W for OUR (the steelbending community) team.

 

once we figure it out, I vote that we flood the cert list like an army of pissed off Berserkers. So to send a clear and concise message that we ARE strong!

 

as I said before, I stopped reading at page 6. So I don’t know what all was hashed out… but I assume everyone here is sort of on the same page, mostly? It not, start sticking together. And make this happen en masse.

Yea, ends must be tucked in. Although, I'm not sure if how I did it was allowed be I tucked about half way through rolling and I think the rules stat they have to be tucked after. 

 

I sent that video to Ironmind asking if its within the rules. I'll let you guys know if I get any answer. 

[Tommy J.]

53 minutes ago, Jermiah Merciconah said:

The issue i'm seeing with that point of view and its one i've spoken to other benders about, Is that if people just suck it up as they had done in the past with the CCS rule, It continues the precedent that randall can change what he wants at a whim and people can't do anything about it

Not at all saying I’m in agreement with the rule changes.. I flat out don’t like it. however, it is a private business. Governed by Randall and Randall only. No amount of protest from the niche group of steel benders will have an effect on how he chooses to run it. And make no mistake… we ARE the only group that the rule changes effect.

obviously as customers we “think” we get a say.. and we also assume our “say” will be persuasive. Because nearly all of us were raised with the pompous and entitled view that “the customer is always right!”, people tend to think they are VIP because they spent a few bucks. When the truth is…. The only customers that are actually VIP are the ones that spent VIP money.

the harsher truth is, a handful of unhappy customers will have almost zero effect on a multi million dollar business. Morally or legally, etc. Especially when none of us can show any proof of genuine hardship/loss/whatever (other than our feelings) as a result of that companies decisions.

Obviously you and everyone else are free to vote with your wallet in response. That vote can’t be taken from you by any non criminal means. And I advocate for your freedom to cast that vote whichever direction you please.

That aside, in my mind, there is 1 option and 1 option only to rattle the cage.. and that option, as petty as it sounds, is spite. Spite that rule change and certify under the new rules.

[Tommy J.]

Further, I did see some sentiments early in the thread that suggest separate lists to illustrate who certed under what rules. But what many of you don’t know is rule-change-gate already happened with the red nail list back when Eric Milfeld certified. He was LITERALLY the first guy to certify in imps. When everyone before him was allowed to use thick leather wraps, or whatever else they so chose, wrap wise.

….and it happened with gripper certs.. and it happened with RT world records via no mention of what model RT was used. The RT records list may have changed since then? Regardless, it wasn’t that way last time I looked.

so since the asterisks and separate lists didn’t happen then, despite heavy protest, it won’t happen now… despite heavy protest. So even advocating for it ends up being wheels spun for nothing.

 

And personally, I could care less how it “looks” that my name is going to stay listed on the cert list even though newer and more difficult rules are in place. I certed legit. Under the rules proper during that time. And I won’t allow a rule change, or anyone else to make a mockery of my efforts just because the owner of the company decided to change the rules years after I did the cert. I mean it doesn’t appear that anyone on the cert list even got a say. So WE aren’t to be punished. I followed the rules at the time of the cert, became a part of bending history, legitimately, and I don’t owe, nor will I advocate for any reparations via revision. what I’ll do instead, is write it (my name standing legit on that list) in stone via recertifying under the new rules.

Note that I underlined the word personally. I did so because I won’t fault anyone on the cert list for seeing it different than myself. Everyone who hasn’t certified pretty much acts as bonafide peanut gallery worrying about separate lists under various rule changes. I mean some of you are acting as if your name will somehow be tarnished by being listed along side those of us who did it under the old rules… which is an odd concern… considering you never even did it under the older “easier” rules, as you put it. And if you’re one of those people, you damn sure ain’t gonna ever have to worry about it with these newer more complicated rules. So why the fuss?

Also, I have zero qualms about residing on the #3 list post credit card rule and new out of package, right along side guys who did it pre credit card rule, not new out of package. They did it legit during their time just like I did during my time.

And here’s another angle.. not all of the people on those list are even still alive to plead their cases. Or to request to be removed from the list. Consider that before casting stones acting as if every person who certified under old rules should share your views.

and no. This isn’t an attack on anyone. Merely my .02, just like everyone else so far.

[stranger]

@Tommy J. I'm excited to see your return to bending, you're easily one of the best to ever do it. I'm curious as to when you can do DO style and new IM rule style as if now. 

That being said, I am one those not certified, but I was/am ready. (Old rules, obviously) they announced that they lifted the halt on certs  and I submitted my video. The next day they announced the rule change. F me. I even did it with out using rubber bands and rolling up in my leg while standing. The whole video is less than 2 minutes and the bend was only ~15. 

The real problem is that someone (no me) requested the Gold cert and sent in the required video. Ironmind seen this then stopped the certifications. Coincidence? Could be but I highly doubt it. They claim they wanna get back to the "tradition" of the bend and make it more focused on wrist and Grip strength. They do this not after a few guys certified in DO style but after almost 20 years and hundreds of certifications? 

All that being said, I do think the Red is possible and I could probably get it in a few months along with many others. The Gold however, I'm not sure anyone will be able to do that. 

[David_wigren]

Tommy, I don’t see why you are even interested to try. If you can reverse a red nail in a single IMP rolled up like a cigar, then you’ve done the strength portion of the feat. We already know roughly the people that can do this. Who cares about if one goes the next step which is to try and balance the nail as you crush it down to 2” in front of your chest?
 

For me I liken this change to seeing who can close a CoC 3 and then do a backflip and juggle five juggling balls. Sure, it’s neat to be able to juggle five balls. But I personally only care about the strength portion. And that was basically over after the first 40-60 degrees of the bend.

[stranger]

12 hours ago, Jermiah Merciconah said:

Completely off topic you look like Dave Chaffee when you're bending

 

[Tommy J.]

23 minutes ago, stranger said:

@Tommy J. I'm excited to see your return to bending, you're easily one of the best to ever do it. I'm curious as to when you can do DO style and new IM rule style as if now. 

That being said, I am one those not certified, but I was/am ready. (Old rules, obviously) they announced that they lifted the halt on certs  and I submitted my video. The next day they announced the rule change. F me. I even did it with out using rubber bands and rolling up in my leg while standing. The whole video is less than 2 minutes and the bend was only ~15. 

The real problem is that someone (no me) requested the Gold cert and sent in the required video. Ironmind seen this then stopped the certifications. Coincidence? Could be but I highly doubt it. They claim they wanna get back to the "tradition" of the bend and make it more focused on wrist and Grip strength. They do this not after a few guys certified in DO style but after almost 20 years and hundreds of certifications? 

All that being said, I do think the Red is possible and I could probably get it in a few months along with many others. The Gold however, I'm not sure anyone will be able to do that. 

Thank you for the kind words.

I wouldn’t say I’m returning to bending just yet. But do intend to practice the red nail cert under the new rules. 
 

bummer that the certification was closed just as you were ready to certify… what a shame

as far as derricks gold nail/Ironmind shunning, let me first start by saying I’m not a fan of Derrick. But I do agree that he should have still got his shot at making the gold official. Although, in hindsight, I guess it’s better that Randy shut it down prior to him making anything official, vs afterward. Otherwise Derrick would have been the only name on the gold list, forever after the rule change. Which would have been a huge shame, considering Alex was/is also another one that was deserving of that accolade.

[Tommy J.]

47 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

Tommy, I don’t see why you are even interested to try. If you can reverse a red nail in a single IMP rolled up like a cigar, then you’ve done the strength portion of the feat. We already know roughly the people that can do this. Who cares about if one goes the next step which is to try and balance the nail as you crush it down to 2” in front of your chest?
 

For me I liken this change to seeing who can close a CoC 3 and then do a backflip and juggle five juggling balls. Sure, it’s neat to be able to juggle five balls. But I personally only care about the strength portion. And that was basically over after the first 40-60 degrees of the bend.

Valid question brother. I guess in a way it sort of ends up being like the black nail cert we all asked for years back as a stepping stone to the gold nail?.. it’s obviously still the same nail… but the anti is up now regardless. In a way making it a new bend to chase.

There were a few who did the same with the #3 cert after the credit card rule who are listed twice. Paul Knight and Richard Sorin both re certified. Right off the top of my head.

but there were ZERO on the red nail list that did it prior to the imp rule that came back and did it in imps. (Other than Eric! His name was added when he bent it in a beach towel, removed, and then added again after bending in imps)

also, with fbbc and the cert lists, there is no distinction between who all bent bastards in imps vs leathers or doubles. So at least we can easily track who certed the red nail under what rules simply by date of certification. Can’t do that with FBBC certs unless you spend hours watching videos of exact cert bends from various benders so to know what wraps they used.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Tommy J.

[bruce1337]

[bruce1337]

Alot of people will get injured even training this way IMO. Not worth it. I am moving on from IM

[Tommy J.]

Also Wiggy, I’ve never bent a red reverse in a single imp. Let alone with the ends of the wraps folded in. So it’s gonna take a good bit of dedication to get it done.

[Tommy J.]

9 minutes ago, bruce1337 said:

I dig the folding the ends of the wrap… sorry “pad” (LOL!) in midway. From what I’m reading it’s well within the rules.

And I agree. There are going to be some injuries bending this way.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Tommy J.

[Vinnie]

4 hours ago, stranger said:

So here the issue with how that's written. They use the word 'should'. When the word 'should' is used then it's a recommendation, an therefore doesn't have to be followed. If they used the word 'shall' then it would be a solid rule, not a recommendation but a must. I'm not sure if Ironmind knows this or not. 

Hey @Vinnie, you're a lawyer, right? Am I correct in my interpretation of that wording? 

Should- request

Shall- have to

I agree with your interpretation, but as a lawyer, you are trying to persuade a judge, not just a general audience.  The judge here is Iron Mind, not me or the community of reasonable lawyers.  So, whoever presents that argument to Iron Mind will get their ruling.

Tommy got it right - it's just a private company doing their thing, and they can do it how they see fit.  You don't have any right or entitlement to make them do it in a way that seems fair to you, even if your view is perfectly reasonable (I am not a bender so I don't really have strong thoughts on this anyway, but it looks to me somewhat like the rule change on certing grippers by credit card instead of parallel).  If you don't like what they do, you can let them know either verbally or by not spending money there, and they can decide if the comments or loss of business they suffer warrant reconsideration of their decision.  It probably won't.

As for me, I feel good that I certified on the COC 3 under the harder rules, but I don't begrudge anyone who certified before the rules got harder.  They weren't asked to do it a harder way, so the fact that they did it the easier way doesn't tell you that they could not have done it.  It may not tell you that they could have, but it just wasn't the issue then.  If it matters to them that people believe they can do it the harder way, they can always do the cert again like Sorin did.  Maybe some could have at the time but can't now.  They still did the thing required when it was required.  I mean, I am not even sure I could cert the 3 today if you asked, even the same way I did three months ago.  For sure I won't be able to in 10 or 20 years.  But I did it in November under the rules in force.  The cert just records what you did at a certain point in time.

I am sorry for those of you who were almost there and now have a ways to go, with the red nail.  I will say, even just a 60-D seems hard to me, and I had already decided the red was beyond where I wanted to go even the "easy" way!  Good luck.

My next goal I think is going to be the Inch.  I just have to take the plunge and get one.

[stranger]

9 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

I agree with your interpretation, but as a lawyer, you are trying to persuade a judge, not just a general audience.  The judge here is Iron Mind, not me or the community of reasonable lawyers.  So, whoever presents that argument to Iron Mind will get their ruling.

Tommy got it right - it's just a private company doing their thing, and they can do it how they see fit.  You don't have any right or entitlement to make them do it in a way that seems fair to you, even if your view is perfectly reasonable (I am not a bender so I don't really have strong thoughts on this anyway, but it looks to me somewhat like the rule change on certing grippers by credit card instead of parallel).  If you don't like what they do, you can let them know either verbally or by not spending money there, and they can decide if the comments or loss of business they suffer warrant reconsideration of their decision.  It probably won't.

As for me, I feel good that I certified on the COC 3 under the harder rules, but I don't begrudge anyone who certified before the rules got harder.  They weren't asked to do it a harder way, so the fact that they did it the easier way doesn't tell you that they could not have done it.  It may not tell you that they could have, but it just wasn't the issue then.  If it matters to them that people believe they can do it the harder way, they can always do the cert again like Sorin did.  Maybe some could have at the time but can't now.  They still did the thing required when it was required.  I mean, I am not even sure I could cert the 3 today if you asked, even the same way I did three months ago.  For sure I won't be able to in 10 or 20 years.  But I did it in November under the rules in force.  The cert just records what you did at a certain point in time.

I am sorry for those of you who were almost there and now have a ways to go, with the red nail.  I will say, even just a 60-D seems hard to me, and I had already decided the red was beyond where I wanted to go even the "easy" way!  Good luck.

My next goal I think is going to be the Inch.  I just have to take the plunge and get one.

Well said. And good luck with the Inch. I suggest getting the 2 3/8 loadable dumbbell from Arm assassin strength shop, that's what I'm using right now to train for it. 

[David_wigren]

Not to toot my own horn but I’m probably one of the few who could, at least with a big of training, bend according to the new rules. This is actually a perfect invitation for me to boost my own ego by adhering to their new rules. But I think it’s dumb and I’d rather just train other things that’s gonna make me stronger and not just good at a very odd feat. And that’s what Ironmind has turned this into, a very odd feat.

I would not compare this to the addition of the credit card set. I would liken this to forcing you to dip the gripper in olive oil, close the gripper halfway and then stop to do a finger dance, and then finally closing the gripper. An impressive feat for sure. But it’s dumb AF and odd to anyone who cares about being strong on grippers. I’d rather just move on to harder grippers than doing odd feats like that.