Ironmind bending certs

[Cannon]

3 hours ago, David_wigren said:

I would not compare this to the addition of the credit card set. I would liken this to forcing you to dip the gripper in olive oil, close the gripper halfway and then stop to do a finger dance, and then finally closing the gripper. An impressive feat for sure.

Remember this vid? Ben was ahead of his time.

https://youtu.be/YZOF2BYguDM 

 

[David_wigren]

18 minutes ago, Cannon said:

Remember this vid? Ben was ahead of his time.

https://youtu.be/YZOF2BYguDM 

 

I actually do remember it XD

[David_wigren]

Btw I just bent a 7” 7mm nail and 7” 7.6mm nail according to the new rules… well, I might have accidentally been a little high when I crushed it down. I totally forgot about that part. 
 

I would seriously advice people to NOT pursue this type of bending. During the 7mm bend I slipped in a very unpredictable manner and almost injured my wrist. I’ll post videos later. Had I gone full force I would’ve for sure gotten injured or at least hurt. The thing was that it wasn’t even hard. Just REALLY REALLY awkward. Pure balancing act.

[bruce1337]

13 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

Btw I just bent a 7” 7mm nail and 7” 7.6mm nail according to the new rules… well, I might have accidentally been a little high when I crushed it down. I totally forgot about that part. 
 

I would seriously advice people to NOT pursue this type of bending. During the 7mm bend I slipped in a very unpredictable manner and almost injured my wrist. I’ll post videos later. Had I gone full force I would’ve for sure gotten injured or at least hurt. The thing was that it wasn’t even hard. Just REALLY REALLY awkward. Pure balancing act.

Yeah the risk to reward is not worth it. I'd rather bend DO and be injury free than chase a dumb circus act. There are way better certs out there.

[Buccos1]

32 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

I would seriously advice people to NOT pursue this type of bending. During the 7mm bend I slipped in a very unpredictable manner and almost injured my wrist. I’ll post videos later. Had I gone full force I would’ve for sure gotten injured or at least hurt. The thing was that it wasn’t even hard. Just REALLY REALLY awkward. Pure balancing act.

100% agree with this.  If you like bending, and want to be bending 10, 15, 20 years from now, then you must avoid bends and body position angles that are going to put you at risk for a serious injury or something that may derail your bending hobby forever.  Double-overhand is such specific maneuver to get into optimal position that there is not much room for error if you want to ensure both joint-friendly position and adequate force/power.  If you start getting away from that, then it's not a matter of if an injury is going to happen, but a matter of when and how bad it's going to be.  And if it's going to prevent you from continuing in this form indefinitely.

For a lot of people that have built-up their double-overhand technique over the years, there was very specific training and musculature involved.  And tons and tons of repetition.  To completely switch that up could be a big problem for them.  I guess if one would start from the ground-up, over again, and worked slowly at this new way/cert, then they could build up the appropriate parts of the upper body.  But, I think with that, still, comes a lot of unnecessary risk of injury and a potential end to their bending journey, unfortunately.  

[David_wigren]

1 hour ago, David_wigren said:

Btw I just bent a 7” 7mm nail and 7” 7.6mm nail according to the new rules… well, I might have accidentally been a little high when I crushed it down. I totally forgot about that part. 
 

I would seriously advice people to NOT pursue this type of bending. During the 7mm bend I slipped in a very unpredictable manner and almost injured my wrist. I’ll post videos later. Had I gone full force I would’ve for sure gotten injured or at least hurt. The thing was that it wasn’t even hard. Just REALLY REALLY awkward. Pure balancing act.

Crap, I just realized that I braced my hand against the wrist on my other arm in a way that was not incidental in order to prevent another slip as I was reverse bending it. Guess I broke the rules.

[devinhoo]

1 hour ago, bruce1337 said:

Yeah the risk to reward is not worth it. I'd rather bend DO and be injury free than chase a dumb circus act. There are way better certs out there.

I think at this point all that’s left is to give this new bending style it’s own name, because it definitely isn’t what I would consider “double overhand”

[bruce1337]

11 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

Crap, I just realized that I braced my hand against the wrist on my other arm in a way that was not incidental in order to prevent another slip as I was reverse bending it. Guess I broke the rules.

Pretty sure thats allowed. It says you cant brace hand and arms against the body. Said nothing about bracing hand against wrist.

[David_wigren]

10 minutes ago, bruce1337 said:

Pretty sure thats allowed. It says you cant brace hand and arms against the body. Said nothing about bracing hand against wrist.

Technically the wrists are a part of the body.

[bruce1337]

Just now, David_wigren said:

Technically the wrists are a part of the body.

Part of the arms id say

[stranger]

Ok, so I've been emailing back and forth with Randall today and it seems the language on the new rules is a bit confusing but from with I gather the major thing is wraps. He wants to find a way to wrap the bar without any overhang. 

 

As far as the bending style, he said that hasn't changed and we can still do high under the chin DO. Not sure why it's worded the way it is in the new rules but he said the way I did my 'Flash' bend was good, except for wrapping. 

So basically do any of you guys have any ideas for single or double wrap without overhang? Please share if you do or email him. 

 

Tl:Dr same rules for style but no over hang on pads is what it's looking like 

@David_wigren@bruce1337 @devinhoo @Tommy J.

Edited March 10, 2022 by stranger

[Tommy J.]

7 minutes ago, stranger said:

Ok, so I've been emailing back and forth with Randall today and it seems the language on the new rules is a bit confusing but from with I gather the major thing is wraps. He wants to find a way to wrap the bar without any overhang. 

 

As far as the bending style, he said that hasn't changed and we can still do high under the chin DO. Not sure why it's worded the way it is in the new rules but he said the way I did my 'Flash' bend was good, except for wrapping. 

So basically do any of you guys have any ideas for single or double wrap without overhang? Please share if you do or email him. 

 

Tl:Dr same rules for style but no over hang on pads is what it's looking like 

@David_wigren@bruce1337 @devinhoo @Tommy J.

Okay then in this case, just wrap them (a wrap on each end) the way Bruce did on his single wrap bend. And then bend it DO. As it will protect your hands from the end of the jagged edge nail, and also not add leverage.

With this clarification from Randy, I’ll do this exact bend this weekend if I can find any red nails in my old bending stock.

plus it looks like the time limit went up. To 2 min. That said, I don’t see any reason everyone on the cert list that is still alive can’t recert under these new rules.

also keep in mind that Randy himself may not have even written the rules laid out on his site. …he does pay full time employees to handle all kinds of tasks. So the confusion could simply be a game of telephone we are experiencing.

[anwnate]

17 minutes ago, stranger said:

Ok, so I've been emailing back and forth with Randall today...

...As far as the bending style, he said that hasn't changed and we can still do high under the chin DO.

Interesting.  I got a completely different impression from him in our exchange.

[stranger]

2 minutes ago, anwnate said:

Interesting.  I got a completely different impression from him in our exchange.

As far as bending style, wraps or both?

[anwnate]

3 minutes ago, stranger said:

As far as bending style, wraps or both?

Bending style.

[stranger]

4 minutes ago, anwnate said:

Bending style.

Maybe one of use is talking with Randall and the other is talking to Randy? Lol

I sent my Red Nail 'Flash' bend video and he said besides the wrapping it was good. Maybe they're still trying to sort this out. 

 

[anwnate]

1 minute ago, stranger said:

Maybe one of use is talking with Randall and the other is talking to Randy? Lol

I sent my Red Nail 'Flash' bend video and he said besides the wrapping it was good. Maybe they're still trying to sort this out. 

 

Sounds that way.

[Tommy J.]

thoughts?

[Tommy J.]

I’ll submit a few bends to Randy this weekend of various wrapping and bending styles for clarification.

we go back a few years and have shot the breeze more than a few times. I can’t speak for others dealings. But he’s never not been reasonable with me.

if it turns out there is simply a bit of confusion, I’ll do what I can to help Ironmind iron the rules out to make them more clear for us, and also report back here. I can’t make any promises. Because It really is his say. My intent lies solely in getting full clarity on what’s allowed and what is not. Then moving forward from there.

without taking to him directly, what I can gather so far is he no longer wants wraps hanging off the ends essentially being used as leverage. Which is what most of us refer to as “pistol grip”. Which so happens to also be what Derek exploits, to the maximum. So I’m starting to get more of an understanding of what went down to cause the rule mod.

regardless, even if DO as we know it is allowed to stay, the certification bend still did get significantly more challenging due to the wrap rules alone. And I’m okay with that. Because if I had to guess, I’d say the certs for the red nail are about to look a lot like David Horne’s DO hand certs. And nobody complains of how David does it with wraps touching.

[stranger]

12 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

thoughts?

That's exactly what I was thinking. Two new IMP's might be too bulky. I'll try in the next few days. 

[ChuckinCanuck]

 This thread is something else... What a rollercoaster of emotions and opinions. 

[gripmaniac]

4 hours ago, stranger said:

Ok, so I've been emailing back and forth with Randall today and it seems the language on the new rules is a bit confusing but from with I gather the major thing is wraps. He wants to find a way to wrap the bar without any overhang. 

Aaaaah!  Now things are starting to become a lot clearer.  With no (or rather very little) overhang you wouldn't be able to quite so effectively pistol grip a bar under the chin . . .therefore rendering technique less than optimal.  

To me, changing the way the bar has be wrapped means forcing a change to the way it can be gripped and therefore what technique can then be used.  I really like the way he's thought this difficult issue through . . . . . 

 

I can't say I like the rule about no contact with the body - trying to DO kink or sweep a bar at chest level (my  preferred technique) without steadying contact is frankly extremely risky. Pretty sure the initial "ancient" bending rules we had here (which I think DH had more than a little input on) clearly implied this.   I'd never consider adhering to such a rule just to chase a cert. 

[ChuckinCanuck]

28 minutes ago, gripmaniac said:

Aaaaah!  Now things are starting to become a lot clearer.  With no (or rather very little) overhang you wouldn't be able to quite so effectively pistol grip a bar under the chin . . .therefore rendering technique less than optimal.  

To me, changing the way the bar has be wrapped means forcing a change to the way it can be gripped and therefore what technique can then be used.  I really like the way he's thought this difficult issue through . . . . . 

 

I can't say I like the rule about no contact with the body - trying to DO kink or sweep a bar at chest level (my  preferred technique) without steadying contact is frankly extremely risky. Pretty sure the initial "ancient" bending rules we had here (which I think DH had more than a little input on) clearly implied this.   I'd never consider adhering to such a rule just to chase a cert. 

Agreed. That kind of away from the body pressure with fresh wraps is super shady even if a steel bender is very experienced. 

[stranger]

@ChuckinCanuck @gripmaniac

From what I've gathered so far the bending style will not change. The way that @ChuckinCanuck and I currently bend will be acceptable. The only thing that's changing is the wrapping process and placement. 

but again, noting is in stone and it seems like they're still trying to figure stuff out.

[Horrido]

Hello, my name is Ladnar, welcome to our house. Are you looking for a new car?
Hi, thanks, yes I am searching for a new car. Can you offer me a good one?
Of course, I can show you one of the best of ours, here is a brand new Ford Edge. A great car.
Yes, truly a great car. Can you show me some features?
Sure, my suggestion is, that you enter the car from the trunk and try to reach the backseat on the right side, from there you can try to reach the steering wheel and start the car.
Hm, are you sure? I think there are better solutions to start the car?
This is the way to go. I also talked to my team and we are very sure that this is the way to go. Other things are just circus tricks.
Hm, I am not sure about this. I think even Henry (Ford) would think there are better ways!?
Mark Henry is also biulding cars!? I think he will do it in a great way. Do you want the car now?
I think this car is not the best for me. I have to search in other directions.
Ok, I think you need more time to get better education for a new car. Good luck on your way.
Hm, thanks. Bye!