Grip Strength Nationals

[Matt Brouse]

Actually, weight classes in PL, lights & heavies in Strongman. Weight classes in Oly, height classes in BB.

I read ya John, but I am talking like modifying the deadlift to match one guys shin bone length so it's fair. Weight classes make sense, for grip and otherwise but anthropometric variables are what make the sports dynamic.

Do they still use height classes in bodybuilding?

Jad, being as you compared "true grip" events to "true grip" events (vbar to 2" vbar) are you saying that if a guy with a really strong grip performs poorly on one event it is not a true test of grip strength? There is obviously some other variable at work...?

People with strong grips should perform elite across the board? Just want to make sure I follow you.

Also, my hope for the structure and event selection would be a set number of standard event (i.e grippers, 2HP, etc.) that are pretty exclusively hand action and have, say, 2 other events at the promoters discretion that would be a bit more dynamic if he would so choose.

[John Beatty]

Actually, weight classes in PL, lights & heavies in Strongman. Weight classes in Oly, height classes in BB.

I read ya John, but I am talking like modifying the deadlift to match one guys shin bone length so it's fair. Weight classes make sense, for grip and otherwise but anthropometric variables are what make the sports dynamic.

Got ya. In Strongman a lot of events balance out, DL from normal height is tougher for the tall guys, as is tire flip, Herc hold with pillars favors the shorter guy, but the bigger guy's hand size evens that, the crucifix sucks for the really tall guys & short guys with long arms (me). On & on.

Do they still use height classes in bodybuilding?

Don't know. Remember, I'm old, we old folks remember things from the distant past. I haven't followed BB since there were height classes, don't know if there are anymore.

[stew2]

I am a salesman thats how I make my living now adays I'm a commercial sales rep for overhead doors pretty glamorous huh . I like grip alot but if I didn't and was reading this I would not be sold. You have to find the balance to get as many people invovlved as possible, while still making it marketable to the elite. That means finding a way to make Jon Doe think he has a chance at competing with the big boys (even if it's only an illusion) you organize, set up a governing body, rules, with divisions so people at different levels can compete. When more people are involved and their is a possiblity at making gains (usually monetary) moe people would be willing to give sponsorship. Some one's not going to sponsor something that either doesn't have a large base of competitors or a large number of spectators because they won't sell anyhting or gain any customers, so unless they really like grip and have alot of money your not getting anything. It's a big vicious cycle. If we want it to go anywhere quit arguing organize and be organized and market I don't know exactly what angle to use yet but I think we can all agree the one we're using now isn't working. Don't worry so much about who or what events worry about who else I can get intrested and why. Always look for an angle read people you'll know if they like it or not real quick unless your not paying attention to them and thats what we're doing now it's not what I want or you want it's about what the guy I don't know wants ( which you'll find will usually boil down one way or another to some sort of money). Don't know if this is a help or just babling but either way it fits here because right now I'm not sold and I care some.

[MalachiMcMullen]

I am a salesman thats how I make my living now adays I'm a commercial sales rep for overhead doors pretty glamorous huh . I like grip alot but if I didn't and was reading this I would not be sold. You have to find the balance to get as many people invovlved as possible, while still making it marketable to the elite. That means finding a way to make Jon Doe think he has a chance at competing with the big boys (even if it's only an illusion) you organize, set up a governing body, rules, with divisions so people at different levels can compete. When more people are involved and their is a possiblity at making gains (usually monetary) moe people would be willing to give sponsorship. Some one's not going to sponsor something that either doesn't have a large base of competitors or a large number of spectators because they won't sell anyhting or gain any customers, so unless they really like grip and have alot of money your not getting anything. It's a big vicious cycle. If we want it to go anywhere quit arguing organize and be organized and market I don't know exactly what angle to use yet but I think we can all agree the one we're using now isn't working. Don't worry so much about who or what events worry about who else I can get intrested and why. Always look for an angle read people you'll know if they like it or not real quick unless your not paying attention to them and thats what we're doing now it's not what I want or you want it's about what the guy I don't know wants ( which you'll find will usually boil down one way or another to some sort of money). Don't know if this is a help or just babling but either way it fits here because right now I'm not sold and I care some.

:rock :rock

[The Natural]

Jad, being as you compared "true grip" events to "true grip" events (vbar to 2" vbar) are you saying that if a guy with a really strong grip performs poorly on one event it is not a true test of grip strength? There is obviously some other variable at work...?

I'd like a little clarification on this too. The argument seems to be something like

David Horne & Tommy Heslep would not/do not do well on this event.

Therefore, it's not a good test of grip strength.

The suppressed premise being, of course, "If David Horne & Tommy Heslep don't do well at event X, event X is not a good test of grip strength."

There's danger of begging the question, here, obviously. I want a reason to accept the suppressed premise other than "It's true by definition".

I may have it all wrong. Maybe Josh can help me out.

-Rex

Edited February 3, 2009 by The Natural

[MalachiMcMullen]

Josh is referring to events that do not discriminate based on handsize. Not about what certain people would be good at. Perhaps naming names dillutes the point. All things being equal, a guy with 7" hands cannot compete against a guy with 9" hands in events like thickbar, blobs, etc. It's not a "awwww too bad" situation. This is a pointless argument as classes of some kind would make handsizes practically a wash.

[jad]

Actually, weight classes in PL, lights & heavies in Strongman. Weight classes in Oly, height classes in BB.

I read ya John, but I am talking like modifying the deadlift to match one guys shin bone length so it's fair. Weight classes make sense, for grip and otherwise but anthropometric variables are what make the sports dynamic.

Do they still use height classes in bodybuilding?

Jad, being as you compared "true grip" events to "true grip" events (vbar to 2" vbar) are you saying that if a guy with a really strong grip performs poorly on one event it is not a true test of grip strength? There is obviously some other variable at work...?

I'm saying in the case of the 2" vbar, the only thing that changed was the dm of the bar and all of sudden Chad is destroying Ryan and that's a strength difference and not a handsize thing?? The other variable you speak of is Chad's hand is a good 1/2" longer if not more. If a group of guys consistently peform poorly on one event or type of event and can hold their own on others, then yes, maybe we should look into that. What's the best mark on axle with 7.75" hands or below...like 360ish? That's not even close to being competitive and you're going to tell me all these guys are just weak at thickbar and need to get stronger?? It's not even that complicated with thickbar and widepinch. Why are they hard? I'm sure you can see where this is going. It doesn't measure strength unless people have the same size and some would even argue shape, hands.

People with strong grips should perform elite across the board? Just want to make sure I follow you.

No, but they should perform elite across disciplines. For example, Beatty clearly has support grip, pinch, and plenty of backstrength yet he couldn't pull the axle at BBB. I think he's a 350ish AA puller. He loses only to Chad on the HH. There's something wrong there. Klein had/has the 1" vbar world record, Chad was/is 2nd. On 2", Chad locks out 20 more pounds than Ryan and looks around the room before setting it down. These are the same disciplines and the results are completely different. In both cases, a thicker bar is used and the "stronger" guy has larger hands...hmm These events do not measure strength.

Also, my hope for the structure and event selection would be a set number of standard event (i.e grippers, 2HP, etc.) that are pretty exclusively hand action and have, say, 2 other events at the promoters discretion that would be a bit more dynamic if he would so choose.

[jad]

Jad, being as you compared "true grip" events to "true grip" events (vbar to 2" vbar) are you saying that if a guy with a really strong grip performs poorly on one event it is not a true test of grip strength? There is obviously some other variable at work...?

I'd like a little clarification on this too. The argument seems to be something like

David Horne & Tommy Heslep would not/do not do well on this event.

Therefore, it's not a good test of grip strength.

The suppressed premise being, of course, "If David Horne & Tommy Heslep don't do well at event X, event X is not a good test of grip strength."

If a large handed guy can't beat David Horne at the 1HDL but can beat him in axle, then that proves axle is not much of a test of support grip. If you can beat David at blob fw but can't beat him at 2HP, then blob fw is not a good pinch event. If the new WR holder from TX can beat David on 2" vbar can't beat him at 1" vbar, then 2" vbar is not a good event. They should be the same across the disciplines if we're interested in measuring strength and not handsize.

There's danger of begging the question, here, obviously. I want a reason to accept the suppressed premise other than "It's true by definition".

I may have it all wrong. Maybe Josh can help me out.

-Rex

Edited February 3, 2009 by jad

[The Natural]

If a large handed guy can't beat David Horne at the 1HDL but can beat him in axle, then that proves axle is not much of a test of support grip. If you can beat David at blob fw but can't beat him at 2HP, then blob fw is not a good pinch event. If the new WR holder from TX can beat David on 2" vbar can't beat him at 1" vbar, then 2" vbar is not a good event. They should be the same across the disciplines if we're interested in measuring strength and not handsize.

See, this is what I suspected, and it doesn't sound so plausible to me.

Let's change things up a bit. Instead of considering an event at which the large-handed person has an advantage, let's look at two events at which the smaller handed person has an advantage.

Hubbing

Casey Emery can hub quite a bit more than me. I can 2HP quite a bit more than him. Now, we all know that hubbing benefits those with smaller hands--they are able to get their hands deeper. Greater percentage of surface contact and all that. Casey's hands are smaller than mine.

Now, if we reason the way you do, we should conclude that hubbing is "not a good pinch event". That seems plainly not true. It is a good pinch event, one that I need to get better at. Casey is no doubt getting a big advantage over me because he can get his hands deep and I'm using just my fingertips, but so what?

Grippers

Those with very big hands have trouble generating lots of strength in the critical "last 1/16th" range of gripper closes. It just falls outside our normal range of power output. That critical area, however, falls within the normal power output range of those with smaller hands.

In some tests of crushing grip (TNS), I can beat smaller-handed folk. But...

You can see where I'm going with this. If I beat a smaller-handed person on some crush event, but he kills me on chokered parallel grippers because that range is better for those with smaller hands, should I conclude that it's not a good test of hand strength?

No. I just need to build up more power in the range of motion that's hard and un-natural for me.

-Rex

Edited February 3, 2009 by The Natural

[climber511]

This whole thing seems like writing traffic laws before we invent the car. Let's get an organization of sorts up and running - get some sort of actual rules (at least then we will have something for us to fight about), membership, dues, officers and whatever in place before arguing about every little or not so little thing. When it's all said and done - no one will get every single thing their way but until we actually get organized no one is getting anything at all except typing exercise. I guess that is good for our fingers anyway.

[The Natural]

This whole thing seems like writing traffic laws before we invent the car. Let's get an organization of sorts up and running - get some sort of actual rules (at least then we will have something for us to fight about), membership, dues, officers and whatever in place before arguing about every little or not so little thing. When it's all said and done - no one will get every single thing their way but until we actually get organized no one is getting anything at all except typing exercise. I guess that is good for our fingers anyway.

Chris,

When it comes time to appoint officer positions, can I be Chief Debater?

-Rex

[EricMilfeld]

This whole thing seems like writing traffic laws before we invent the car. Let's get an organization of sorts up and running - get some sort of actual rules (at least then we will have something for us to fight about), membership, dues, officers and whatever in place before arguing about every little or not so little thing. When it's all said and done - no one will get every single thing their way but until we actually get organized no one is getting anything at all except typing exercise. I guess that is good for our fingers anyway.

Chris,

When it comes time to appoint officer positions, can I be Chief Debater?

-Rex

That request is up for debate.

[Bob Lipinski]

To preface, let's just get this thing going. To be honest, if someone ambitious wrote up a rule set, and Diesel Crew said "yup, that is a US grip org!" we would have what we want. Jedd, help us! I've got rules on my website, I could give a shit if my rules, records, or whatever were just cut and paste, lets just get this done. We just need a credible voice to step forward and take charge. I would do it if I could. If Jedd got together with David Horne..... Well, we'd be done arguing.

Oh boy, the handsize thing....

I'll just cut the bullshit. Ironmind wants grip to be a big mans game. The CCS was the start. Holle didn't sell enough books, maybe Tex will. Who knows, Randy likes the big guys. A blob by the face and six 10's sure is impressive, but then again so is John Holmes's privates. I'm not long enough for any of the above, and no amount of training will change that.

As far as an advantage for small hand with hubbing and grippers- I doubt it. Not trying to be snide, just brief. If you look across the best of the big guys and little guys, the results don't seem to suggest leverage advantage. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. Across the board with very very few exceptions, big hands=better. Some events just don't give as much of advantage.

[Wade Gillingham]

If a large handed guy can't beat David Horne at the 1HDL but can beat him in axle, then that proves axle is not much of a test of support grip. If you can beat David at blob fw but can't beat him at 2HP, then blob fw is not a good pinch event. If the new WR holder from TX can beat David on 2" vbar can't beat him at 1" vbar, then 2" vbar is not a good event. They should be the same across the disciplines if we're interested in measuring strength and not handsize.

See, this is what I suspected, and it doesn't sound so plausible to me.

Let's change things up a bit. Instead of considering an event at which the large-handed person has an advantage, let's look at two events at which the smaller handed person has an advantage.

Hubbing

Casey Emery can hub quite a bit more than me. I can 2HP quite a bit more than him. Now, we all know that hubbing benefits those with smaller hands--they are able to get their hands deeper. Greater percentage of surface contact and all that. Casey's hands are smaller than mine.

Now, if we reason the way you do, we should conclude that hubbing is "not a good pinch event". That seems plainly not true. It is a good pinch event, one that I need to get better at. Casey is no doubt getting a big advantage over me because he can get his hands deep and I'm using just my fingertips, but so what?

Grippers

Those with very big hands have trouble generating lots of strength in the critical "last 1/16th" range of gripper closes. It just falls outside our normal range of power output. That critical area, however, falls within the normal power output range of those with smaller hands.

In some tests of crushing grip (TNS), I can beat smaller-handed folk. But...

You can see where I'm going with this. If I beat a smaller-handed person on some crush event, but he kills me on chokered parallel grippers because that range is better for those with smaller hands, should I conclude that it's not a good test of hand strength?

No. I just need to build up more power in the range of motion that's hard and un-natural for me.

-Rex

I agree with Rex completely. If we put another quarter in him he could probably outline the rest of the events that favor small handed vs. big handed. Here's a start: 1" vbar and short bending.

[Hubgeezer]

Just wanted to post the date for Nationals - August 29th, 2009. It is the last Saturday in August, but it is NOT the same weekend as Labor Day, so we do not have to deal with that this year.

The event will most likely be held right at my house this year instead of having to rent a facility and cart all of the equipment around my myself the day before the contest again.

You must qualify. I will post specifics down the line as far as weights in specifics events that will qualify you. For now, just remember that if you finish top 3 in a contest, you qualify.

To make your contest a qualifier, you must email me ahead of time, going forward. We need to make sure the contests that are being done hold to the same guidelines that we have been using for the last few years.

Any questions, feel free to post them here. There will be plenty more information to come, such as the specific events and the hotel info, etc.

Thanks.

Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth...

Okay, thanks for posting this Jedd. Now we know when and where the contest will be. We also know one way of qualifying (top 3 in an approved contest), and will later find out the specific criteria of qualification based on performances in specific events at contests. The other important piece to come will be what are the specific events that will be contested. To some competitors, that is important. To others, it makes no difference.

Thank you very much for letting us know plenty in advance, as it helps with planning.

Mike

[Wade Gillingham]

To preface, let's just get this thing going. To be honest, if someone ambitious wrote up a rule set, and Diesel Crew said "yup, that is a US grip org!" we would have what we want. Jedd, help us! I've got rules on my website, I could give a shit if my rules, records, or whatever were just cut and paste, lets just get this done. We just need a credible voice to step forward and take charge. I would do it if I could. If Jedd got together with David Horne..... Well, we'd be done arguing.

Oh boy, the handsize thing....

I'll just cut the bullshit. Ironmind wants grip to be a big mans game. The CCS was the start. Holle didn't sell enough books, maybe Tex will. Who knows, Randy likes the big guys. A blob by the face and six 10's sure is impressive, but then again so is John Holmes's privates. I'm not long enough for any of the above, and no amount of training will change that.

As far as an advantage for small hand with hubbing and grippers- I doubt it. Not trying to be snide, just brief. If you look across the best of the big guys and little guys, the results don't seem to suggest leverage advantage. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. Across the board with very very few exceptions, big hands=better. Some events just don't give as much of advantage.

That's a pretty bold statement to throw out there. It's completely unfounded, off base, and unprofessional. I would expect more from the leader of our US Grip Organization.

I've had enough of this nonsense. Good luck everyone.

Wade

[Bob Lipinski]

I'm just small time. I do what I can. Based on current developments, I don't think I am way off base.

Wade, you haven't helped us much anyways. You've never made a serious effort to help. Maybe we'll get along sometime in the future.

Here is a comprehensive list of typical competition events that favor competitors with small hands:

Edited February 3, 2009 by Bob Lipinski

[bencrush]

I agree with Rex completely. If we put another quarter in him he could probably outline the rest of the events that favor small handed vs. big handed. Here's a start: 1" vbar and short bending.

1" vbar might be more difficult to get a hold of for guys with massive hands, but if you look at the vbar list, there are no shortage of guys with large hands in the top section of it. Yes, there are a lot of normal-sized hands on that list too. I wonder if it's because the small hand guys know they've got a better shot of competing with the large hand guys on the 1" vbar at least. The 2" is obviously going to be much more suited to someone who can get more of their thumb wrapped on the outside of any of their fingers.

Short bending, depending on your definition of short (mine is probably different since I actually bend), is not being contested much or at all. 7" and 6" seem to be the standard for those contests that have bending in them. A long hand is NOT a disadvantage in even 6" bending because they can go into the hands interlocked position earlier than a guy with shorter hands. That's a huge advantage. Do the large hands get in the way? Yes. Wrap farther on the ends of the bar then. I'd trade having my hands get in the way for being able to interlock my fingers far sooner than a guy with smaller hands.

It was mentioned earlier, but I agree that hubbing is more suited to guys with shorter fingers.

I wonder how hard a 1/2" vbar would be for guys with normal size hands and those with 8.5"+ hands. I guess promoters could always find a way to hold a contest that favors whatever hand size they want to favor that day.

It is delightful that when the hand size issue is discussed, and someone supports the hand size classes, there are guys that automatically spout off that we are (not quoting) afraid to compete, need to get stronger, etc. I'm still amazed that intelligent guys refuse to believe that their gigantic hands are an enormous advantage in nearly all things grip. That's why the discussion over hand size divisions.

It's just not the same feat when a 7.5" hand pulls the Blob and when a 9" hand does the same. I'm extremely impressed when Josh pulls the Blob with his shortish hands. I'm totally not impressed when I hear of someone with an 8.5" or 9" hand pulling the Blob. Is the big-handed guy very strong? Yes, without a doubt. Is he as strong as the guy with the shorter hands? Possibly. But you sure won't be able to figure that out by such an obviously mismatched test.

Joe Roark's "Fair Bar" idea is really one that I think has merit. Let's say a guy with 7" hands can touch his thumb and index finger together just barely when wrapped around a 1.5" diameter bar. Now let's say that a 9" hand can touch thumb and index finger together around a 2.5" bar. That, IMO, would be a pretty fair test of who has the stronger thickbar strength! Unless the large-handed guy is going to volunteer to use a bar that is large enough to force him to have a 1" gap between his thumb and index finger...like some small-handed guys I've seen pulling on the Rolling Thunder.

I'm sure we'll argue/discuss this for years to come, but it's always interesting to me to hear both sides.

And for those that are always referencing what Strongman (I like SM contests) has in its contests and how that should pertain to grip competitions...they have a sport already in progress for you. It's called Strongman! I actually like grip contests that have an element of "lifting" in them. But when the events are so heavy that they require lots of full-body strength, it's no longer largely a grip test.

I enjoy watching the monsters of grip! I think we all do. I'm just stating how ridiculous it is to knock down the achievements of mid-pack grip guys (like me) who have clawed and scratched to get stronger over a period of years on the grip stuff. I don't begrudge the fact that there are guys that literally start out at a higher level than what I'm at now after about 9 years of training. Different genetics, etc. In fact, that's utterly fascinating to me too. But why compare yourselves with mid-pack guys with average genetics, when what you really want is to lock horns with other genetic monsters? This probably fits into the whole getting more exposure and that approach. Why not just start going to strongman shows and challenging some guys that are working with a similar genetic potential? There's your competition right there.

[bencrush]

I'm just small time. I do what I can. Based on current developments, I don't think I am way off base.

Wade, you haven't helped us much anyways. You've never made a serious effort to help. Maybe we'll get along sometime in the future.

Here is a comprehensive list of typical competition events that favor competitors with small hands:

Great stuff Bob! You're not small time in my book man. You're strong. You've earned it. You've worked hard to get it and that's more impressive when it's not something that just fell into your lap. Unlike the ability to lift the Blob on your first try, mainly because your hand is almost long enough to hook grip it.

[jad]

If a large handed guy can't beat David Horne at the 1HDL but can beat him in axle, then that proves axle is not much of a test of support grip. If you can beat David at blob fw but can't beat him at 2HP, then blob fw is not a good pinch event. If the new WR holder from TX can beat David on 2" vbar can't beat him at 1" vbar, then 2" vbar is not a good event. They should be the same across the disciplines if we're interested in measuring strength and not handsize.

See, this is what I suspected, and it doesn't sound so plausible to me.

Let's change things up a bit. Instead of considering an event at which the large-handed person has an advantage, let's look at two events at which the smaller handed person has an advantage.

Hubbing

Casey Emery can hub quite a bit more than me. I can 2HP quite a bit more than him. Now, we all know that hubbing benefits those with smaller hands--they are able to get their hands deeper. Greater percentage of surface contact and all that. Casey's hands are smaller than mine.

Now, if we reason the way you do, we should conclude that hubbing is "not a good pinch event". That seems plainly not true. It is a good pinch event, one that I need to get better at. Casey is no doubt getting a big advantage over me because he can get his hands deep and I'm using just my fingertips, but so what?

Grippers

Those with very big hands have trouble generating lots of strength in the critical "last 1/16th" range of gripper closes. It just falls outside our normal range of power output. That critical area, however, falls within the normal power output range of those with smaller hands.

In some tests of crushing grip (TNS), I can beat smaller-handed folk. But...

You can see where I'm going with this. If I beat a smaller-handed person on some crush event, but he kills me on chokered parallel grippers because that range is better for those with smaller hands, should I conclude that it's not a good test of hand strength?

No. I just need to build up more power in the range of motion that's hard and un-natural for me.

-Rex

Hubbing: do you train it? Seems like Casey hits it pretty hard? We'll see what Dave T pulls at MGC and find out. Wade seems to be alright at it as well as Shaw.

Grippers: you're not even close. Paul Knight: large hands, Chad: large hands, Dave Morton: large hands, Shane Larson: large hands, Rob V: large hands, Mobster: large hands, Jedd: large hands, of those guys, only Mobster doesn't set to parallel. TNS is not a good test of crushing grip unless the guys have the same size hands. Are you saying you could beat said individual at the chokered grippers if you were allowed to let the choker out some? I have my doubts.

Wade mentioned 1" vbar: huh??? Have you actually tried this lift? The longer the fingers the better. Jim Wylie anyone??

Short bending: wrong again. Jedd demonstrated why at Gripmas for reverse and with DO, the bigger handed guys can interlace the fingers quicker.

[lifesnotfair]

A bit afraid of typing in here, seeing the big names and all, but just food for thought:

Noone complains of the 2HP because it's adjustable and all that. It would fun if at a contest some of you guys put up, there are several different diameter bars, and before everyone pulls you have them all try the bars and let them pull on a bar where, for example, their thumb just meets their middle finger, for example. It would be cool to have everyone deadlifting with the same gap between fingers, and see how the numbers compare.

As for grippers, I always thought that a good idea was to use different blocks for different handsizes. Short hands a 20mm block, big hands a little bigger block, and monster hands even a bit bigger (but never reaching the ~53mm width of the credit card, maybe for Mark Felix size hands), to also make it "fair".

I love this thread

[vikingsrule92]

Ill post a longer response to all of this stuff later when at home but I'm so glad you guys proved Me right. I really enjoy being right, especially when its over someone I compete with normally like zach.

[The Natural]

Hubbing: do you train it? Seems like Casey hits it pretty hard? We'll see what Dave T pulls at MGC and find out. Wade seems to be alright at it as well as Shaw.

Grippers: you're not even close. Paul Knight: large hands, Chad: large hands, Dave Morton: large hands, Shane Larson: large hands, Rob V: large hands, Mobster: large hands, Jedd: large hands, of those guys, only Mobster doesn't set to parallel. TNS is not a good test of crushing grip unless the guys have the same size hands. Are you saying you could beat said individual at the chokered grippers if you were allowed to let the choker out some? I have my doubts.

Wade mentioned 1" vbar: huh??? Have you actually tried this lift? The longer the fingers the better. Jim Wylie anyone??

Short bending: wrong again. Jedd demonstrated why at Gripmas for reverse and with DO, the bigger handed guys can interlace the fingers quicker.

Josh,

If I said that having longer arms helps for the deadlift, it wouldn't matter if you produced ten thousand champion deadlifters with normal or short length arms. I'll go further and say that if every deadlifter of any fame to ever live had short arms, it wouldn't be any evidence against the claim. It's just a matter of physics--less range of motion is better. It's like the claim that, other things being equal, short bridges are less prone to collapse compared to very long bridges. If every bridge to ever collapse in the world was short, the engineer wouldn't come to doubt the claim or wonder if physics might be all wrong.

So instead of playing the name-game, which is not useful anyway in a sport with such a small sample size, I suggest we just look at things from an anatomical perspective. For hubbing, smaller handed guys have more surface contact. More surface contact is better for gripping. End of story. For grippers, a very large hand is asked to generate power within a range of motion at which the hand is weaker, compared to a smaller hand (it may help to imagine the handles of a gripper each becoming an inch and a half thick. If THAT happened, then the smaller handed guy would be operating in a disadvantageous range for the final bit of close, while the large handed guy would be operating in a better range).

-Rex

[Matt Brouse]

August 29th sounds good by the way.

[matthcarl]

August 29th sounds good by the way.

It sucks for me

(Horse racing season)

Edited February 3, 2009 by The Writer