Denis Cyplenkov

[Pancake Sprawl]

bulky is not bad, like i said before the strongmen are bulky but they're athletic. i'm strictly talking about guys who take bulky to a whole other level. like Bob Sapp and Ronnie Coleman. there are guys their weight that are like 6 or 7 in. taller then they are and STILL look bulky. these guys are so huge. Bob Sapp gasses after 2-3 minutes of fighting. this cannot be healthy.

another thing is there are definitely guys out there that aren't that bulky that can deadlift a car off someone. the answer would be i'd want someone there who could do it, regardless. i'm not disagreeing with you, i'm just saying i think guys like Coleman and so forth are too huge and i don't think they can live a healthy life. too heavy is too heavy no matter if it's muscle or fat, it just can't be healthy.

BUT, just like i don't think the severely bulky guys can be has healthy as the athletic ones i don't think the athletic ones would be as strong as the bulky guys. of course there are exceptions for both.

Edited May 11, 2008 by Pancake Sprawl

[Ivarboneless]

I'd rather have 24inch arms than be extremely agile and be a gymnast. Anybody can be a gymnast.

Magnus I don't fault you for not wanting to be a gymnast. People have different goals, yours is obviously not being a gymnast and there is nothing wrong with that however:

Your statement that anyone can be a gymnast is completely misguided. It's true that "anybody can be a gymnast" much the same as "anyone can be a body builder" because all you have to do is compete (even if you suck you are still a gymnast/power lifter/body builder/whatever). In reference to your argument I would take this to mean that you are of the assumption that anyone can be a successful gymnast.

This is wrong.

I would put up any amount of money that I could raw bench 400lbs for 5 reps faster than you can become capable of an elite level rings routine. I would have about 15 years of time to get my bench up to that level assuming that you never got injured, and I would bet any amount of money again that you would tear a bicep and ruin your shoulders before you ever got close to a whole routine.

You seem to hate chins. Why? Chins are an excellent exercise. No, a 110lb kid that does 30 chins is in no way comparable to Big Z, but when I can chin with my 150lb frame plus 120lbs (270lbs) and a 250lb man cannot do a chin HELL YES I am stronger than him (in the lats and rear delts). A 300lb man should be able to do some chins. PERIOD. Chins are not that hard. I am freaking 150lbs and I am closing in on a 300lb chin (probably can already do it, but I dont have enough weight).

If a 150lb guy does 30 chins and a 220lb guy does 18, no the small guy is not stronger because he cannot do 18 at the same weight, but your 280lb ass better be able to do some chins or else a 150lb guy adding some weight to himself is going to school you. I do not expect a 300lb man to be able to do 30 chins (that would be amazing), but 10 would be a reasonable amount. I don't know why the heavier guys neglect the chins. Should a light guy like myself give up on a double bodyweight bench simply because 300lbs is heavy and harder to attain than for a 250lb man?

I seem to catch some disrespect to agility and bodyweight strength in your posts. I don't know why. Just because a certain training aspect is not your goal is no cause to shrug it off like it is without importance or benefit. I bet you would rather bench 500lb raw weigh 250lbs and be flexible and agile with good cardio than weigh 350lbs and bench 500 with no flexibility unable to continuously jog a mile.

Edited May 11, 2008 by Ivarboneless

[dimeisgod]

pull-ups was an example, the same thing would go for push-ups, handstands push-ups, pistols etc....

these unlikely to happen situations are really not a reason for you to be going to the gym everyday, you better drive safely than put a 1000 hours training to lift a car.

all the special forces and special military units surely do not demand a 500 lb bench but would surely demand a good amount of pull-ups and the ability to run. and i would rather have one of them save me than a 500lb bench presser.

and you tell me who's strong:

this guy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlDWdfTAx8o

or this guy:

http://beastskills.com/tutorials.htm

Jonathan.

[Pancake Sprawl]

thats what i'm trying to say. you can be strong in weights but not in real life situations and vice versa. like working on a farm. sure, having 1010lbs bench press means your strong, there is no denying that, but if you don't have the stamina to buck hay all day or move the pigs to different pens and shave the sheep and stuff what's really useful about it? sure, lifting a car off someone is important, but when will you ever do that? a lot of people think you have to be a giant of a man to be strong, you just need the heart and determination, whether your big or small that's just a tiny part of it.

just like the military like Pantera said. do you really want to be 350lbs and 5% body fat standing around a bunch of guys trying to shoot you? or lost in the woods with barely anything to eat and low sleep? i think it would be hard when the hunger pangs begin.

[Matt Brouse]

You know something...Denis Cyplenkov has huge arms! Someone should start a thread about him, I bet his AW trening is impressive.

[Magnus]

Alright, let me clarify here:

Pancakes: If I were in the military, I wouldn't be 350@5%bf.

I'm not in the military, so if I could take my pick, I'd be 350@5%bf.

But also, I live near a marines recruiting center, and they are some of the biggest, bulkiest

guys in the area, so what's your point?

And also, Magnus Samuelsson is a farmer, and he can bench over 600lb like nothing,

weighs 353lb, has a 58in chest and 23.6 arms. Case in point, no?

Greg Kovacs can do military presses w/ 400 , and weighs 400, so there you have it,

a bulky guy that can do hand-stands. The lighter you are, the easier it is to control your own bodyweight.

Jonathan: I do consider Gene stronger, even though he's a fat guy(quite fat, as a mof).

Scot Mendelson can bench better than Gene, and also has a 6-pack.

The there guys are very fit, and have a good strength/weight ratio and body control.

And in the same way you should drive safely, I also suggest keeping all limbs inside the ferris wheel as well.

I'm not the one that came up w/ that, pancake sprawl did, I was just making a spin off of it.

Ivarboneless: The point I was trying to make is that it's MUCH easier too

become a gymnast than have 24" arms and bench 495lb. You can't deny that if you trained one person

to be a gymnast and another to look like Branch Warren, the gymnast would be a better gymnast faster than the

lifter could look like Branch. You can't deny that. I don't hate chins. They are good for your lats. I think it's annoying,

however, when people start measuring absolute strength by them. And I don't disrespect bodyweight exercises, but they

don't mean strength.

You know something...Denis Cyplenkov has huge arms! Someone should start a thread about him, I bet his AW trening is impressive.

Good point, Matt.

Edited May 11, 2008 by Magnus

[dimeisgod]

look, theres nothing wrong with being big or having a certain amount of body fat %. but aiming for bulk? I shouldn't have taken that 1010 bench presser as an example, because the other guy (the gymnast) isn't a world champion. But there are so many guys who would rather bench 500lbs rather than doing a one arm push-up.

as with the "any guy could be a gymnast" , that entirely depends on the person. if a dude already weighs 300lbs it would be easier aiming for that bench than a one arm chin-up. but take that guy and get him training for gymnastics and it would be so much harder for him to reach that goal. it's easier IMO to eat like a bear and neglect cardio exercise and become huge rather than running and keeping a tight diet.

but as an example of a "bear" who was really strong take Bert Assirati. he weighed 109 kg and could do 3 one arm chins.

Jonathan.

[Ivarboneless]

It is not even close to "MUCH easier." From what I can gather they both take about the same amount of time. Most elite gymnasts start training at around 5 years old and reach their peak at around 25 years old, that's with nonstop constant training. 20 years of work.

Branch Warren was born in 1975, and appeared to have his best competition results in 2005-2006. Assuming that he started lifting and training seriously at age 10 (he probably first got started around age 12-13) then that would be 20 years until 2005.

Mariusz Pudzianowski was born in 1977 and similar (20 years) training time can be expected from him.

American gymnastics legend Blaine Wilson was born in 1974, he started training at age four and got a silver medal at the Olympic Games in 2004. That is twenty six years of training!

You'll notice that that is 20 or more years in ALL cases. Saying that becoming an elite gymnast is MUCH easier than becoming an elite powerlifter/strongman/body builder is rediculous. I hope that these comparisons have opened your eyes a little bit.

Bodyweight exercises do mean strength by the way, if you think that you don't have to be strong to do bodyweight exercises you are a fool. I never train with weights, but I can outlift many people at my weight. I have never been beaten at the crucifix lift by anyone even remotely close to my weight (I can hold out 45's), this is due to planche training building very strong shoulders. I am not even close to an inverted cross either, so I can't even imagine how much weight an elite gymnast (bodyweight training only) could hold out. I don't see how you can say bodyweight exercises don't mean strength when they obviously do.

[Magnus]

It is not even close to "MUCH easier." From what I can gather they both take about the same amount of time. Most elite gymnasts start training at around 5 years old and reach their peak at around 25 years old, that's with nonstop constant training. 20 years of work.

Branch Warren was born in 1975, and appeared to have his best competition results in 2005-2006. Assuming that he started lifting and training seriously at age 10 (he probably first got started around age 12-13) then that would be 20 years until 2005.

Mariusz Pudzianowski was born in 1977 and similar (20 years) training time can be expected from him.

American gymnastics legend Blaine Wilson was born in 1974, he started training at age four and got a silver medal at the Olympic Games in 2004. That is twenty six years of training!

You'll notice that that is 20 or more years in ALL cases. Saying that becoming an elite gymnast is MUCH easier than becoming an elite powerlifter/strongman/body builder is rediculous. I hope that these comparisons have opened your eyes a little bit.

Bodyweight exercises do mean strength by the way, if you think that you don't have to be strong to do bodyweight exercises you are a fool. I never train with weights, but I can outlift many people at my weight. I have never been beaten at the crucifix lift by anyone even remotely close to my weight (I can hold out 45's), this is due to planche training building very strong shoulders. I am not even close to an inverted cross either, so I can't even imagine how much weight an elite gymnast (bodyweight training only) could hold out. I don't see how you can say bodyweight exercises don't mean strength when they obviously do.

*Yawn*...this is getting so boring already...reminiscent of arguing on youtube over Vettes and Ferraris.

I didn't say bodyweight exercises don't make you strong, I said being able to control your bodyweight doesn't mean you're stronger than somebody who's heavier and can't, so please don't put words in my mouth. So, I do see now how it takes similar amounts of tome to be either/or. But, now seeing that, wouldn't you rather start out and be Branch after 20yrs, and curl 225 for 10 reps, or would you rather do a crucifix? No matter how you slice it, how you dice it, stronger is stronger. Heck, I have a friend who can out push-up me, out pull-up me, the works. But, he can't bench 190 to save his life, while I can rep-out on it. Does the ability to do push-ups make him feel anymore stupid when he can't de-rack a weight I can easily bench? Does it help him when he can't cheat-curl a dumbbell once when I can do it for 8 easy reps w/ strict form? I'm sorry, it's just the way I see it. Look, you'll NEVER convince me to the way you see it, and I'll apparently NEVER convince you I'm right, so why don't end it already? All where doing is making this go hopelessly off-topic and we've broken a few rules while were at it, so what's the point? Agree to disagree?

[Magnus]

look, theres nothing wrong with being big or having a certain amount of body fat %. but aiming for bulk? I shouldn't have taken that 1010 bench presser as an example, because the other guy (the gymnast) isn't a world champion. But there are so many guys who would rather bench 500lbs rather than doing a one arm push-up.

as with the "any guy could be a gymnast" , that entirely depends on the person. if a dude already weighs 300lbs it would be easier aiming for that bench than a one arm chin-up. but take that guy and get him training for gymnastics and it would be so much harder for him to reach that goal. it's easier IMO to eat like a bear and neglect cardio exercise and become huge rather than running and keeping a tight diet.

but as an example of a "bear" who was really strong take Bert Assirati. he weighed 109 kg and could do 3 one arm chins.

Jonathan.

Heh, yeah, I do eat like a bear But, eating alot isn't as simple as you think, sounds stupid but true. You don't just stuff yourself when you feel like it. You're still on a diet, per se, but you have to have patience to plan out and eat once about 50g of protein and over 100g of carbs every 2-3hrs. It's easier to just cut back and trim up. Try it sometime and you'll see it's not as easy as it sounds. In fact, that's the top reason people aren't successful in lifting. Also, yes, I dislike cardio, but lemme tell you, it's nowhere near as nasty as doing some painful hardcore workouts.

Edited May 11, 2008 by Magnus

[Ivarboneless]

Finally we reach peace.

Now I can tell what you're getting at. I have apparently misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

being able to control your bodyweight doesn't mean you're stronger than somebody who's heavier and can't

I completely agree. This is 100% correct.

No matter how you slice it, how you dice it, stronger is stronger.

True.

But, now seeing that, wouldn't you rather start out and be Branch after 20yrs, and curl 225 for 10 reps, or would you rather do a crucifix?

No, I wouldn't. I would rather be a rings beast and curl 200lbs for 1 rep. That's just goals, everyone has their own goals. I train towards mine just the same as you train towards yours. If I wanted to look like a bodybuilder I would be training like one.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Magnus]

Finally we reach peace.

Now I can tell what you're getting at. I have apparently misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

being able to control your bodyweight doesn't mean you're stronger than somebody who's heavier and can't

I completely agree. This is 100% correct.

No matter how you slice it, how you dice it, stronger is stronger.

True.

But, now seeing that, wouldn't you rather start out and be Branch after 20yrs, and curl 225 for 10 reps, or would you rather do a crucifix?

For my mother , my dearest friend.

No, I wouldn't. I would rather be a rings beast and curl 200lbs for 1 rep. That's just goals, everyone has their own goals. I train towards mine just the same as you train towards yours. If I wanted to look like a bodybuilder I would be training like one.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Haha, no problem, dude And yes, everybody has their own goals, so good luck with yours. But, btw, I don't wanna look like a bb, I wanna look and be like (insert sounds of thunder and visions of lightning)

Edited May 12, 2008 by Magnus

[Pancake Sprawl]

Finally we reach peace.

Now I can tell what you're getting at. I have apparently misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

being able to control your bodyweight doesn't mean you're stronger than somebody who's heavier and can't

I completely agree. This is 100% correct.

No matter how you slice it, how you dice it, stronger is stronger.

True.

But, now seeing that, wouldn't you rather start out and be Branch after 20yrs, and curl 225 for 10 reps, or would you rather do a crucifix?

For my mother , my dearest friend.

No, I wouldn't. I would rather be a rings beast and curl 200lbs for 1 rep. That's just goals, everyone has their own goals. I train towards mine just the same as you train towards yours. If I wanted to look like a bodybuilder I would be training like one.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Haha, no problem, dude And yes, everybody has their own goals, so good luck with yours. But, btw, I don't wanna look like a bb, I wanna look and be like (insert sounds of thunder and visions of lightning)

i never disagree with being bulky. in fact, i, myself am and was pretty bulky. i am 6'5 and i am now 310lbs, before i was 350lbs.

bulk is great, just like being lean is also. different bodies for different jobs. what i'm saying is when you become the size of Coleman, who is not even 6'0 tall but is close to weighing as much as people like Magnus Samuelssen who is bulky for his height, i think it is detrimental to health. you said he's not muscle bound, and that muscle bound is a term used for people who don't train properly. all i can say is, i'm sure Coleman has a harder time wiping his butt because of his immense girth.

i honestly think that kind of EXTREME bulk is unnecessary to be strong as he is. yes, bulk you will need to reach your peak strength, but you can also be too huge for your own good. i know i could weigh +400lbs if i really wanted to, but i wouldn't be able to do normal things like scratch my back, trouble tying my shoes because of how huge i will be at my height.

i'm sure even you who would love to be bulky wouldn't want to sacrifice mobility and agility (and i don't mean some gymnast type agility, i'm talking about strongman mobility like farmer's walk, this is where you didn't understand what i was talking about) just to be extremely strong.

[Magnus]

At least Ronnie doesn't have any hair to comb

[Magnus]

And I also think Ronnie is a bit extreme, and I wouldn't exactly want to look like him, cuz people would think I was a freak

But, I do, like I said before, want to try to match Magnus' physique as much as possible, like this:

That's what I'm aiming for.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Magnus

[Pancake Sprawl]

And I also think Ronnie is a bit extreme, and I wouldn't exactly want to look like him, cuz people would think I was a freak

But, I do, like I said before, want to try to match Magnus' physique as much as possible, like this:

That's what I'm aiming for.

yes yes! now you know what i'm talking about and i know what you're talking about! hahaha!

that's what i mean, bulk is very good, but too be that gigantic as Coleman is a little ridiculous imho and in yours as i see also.

i also wouldn't mind being the size of Magnus but i need some work haha

[dimeisgod]

but still shouldn't the aim be for the strength of magnus rather than his size?

[Magnus]

but still shouldn't the aim be for the strength of magnus rather than his size?

You can't have that kind of strength without having that size.

[Pancake Sprawl]

but still shouldn't the aim be for the strength of magnus rather than his size?

yes, but you will need the bulk, it's just that simple. sure, some will be able to achieve his strength being a little lighter than he is, and some will achieve his strength by being heavier, some won't achieve it with either, everyone is different. but you will definately be a BIG man to have that strength, no matter how much you weigh.

[Magnus]

but still shouldn't the aim be for the strength of magnus rather than his size?

yes, but you will need the bulk, it's just that simple. sure, some will be able to achieve his strength being a little lighter than he is, and some will achieve his strength by being heavier, some won't achieve it with either, everyone is different. but you will definately be a BIG man to have that strength, no matter how much you weigh.

Speaking of bulk, I started a new bi routine on monday. I'm posting a topic about it in a bit in the Goerner forum, but I'll give you a hint: Ouch

[Robert Bishop]

but still shouldn't the aim be for the strength of magnus rather than his size?

yes, but you will need the bulk, it's just that simple. sure, some will be able to achieve his strength being a little lighter than he is, and some will achieve his strength by being heavier, some won't achieve it with either, everyone is different. but you will definately be a BIG man to have that strength, no matter how much you weigh.

you should change that to most will never achieve his strength do to genetics no matter how hard they try

[Pancake Sprawl]

but still shouldn't the aim be for the strength of magnus rather than his size?

yes, but you will need the bulk, it's just that simple. sure, some will be able to achieve his strength being a little lighter than he is, and some will achieve his strength by being heavier, some won't achieve it with either, everyone is different. but you will definately be a BIG man to have that strength, no matter how much you weigh.

you should change that to most will never achieve his strength do to genetics no matter how hard they try

very true

[Magnus]

Sad thing is, alot of the people that do have the genetics are probably paper-pushers.

[Pancake Sprawl]

Sad thing is, alot of the people that do have the genetics are probably paper-pushers.

i know a guy who has a similar structure to Cyplenkov. he doesn't have outrageous arms but his hands i would bet are even wider, thicker, and bigger then Denis'. this guy is a huge man, probably 6'2 6'3 and 330lbs. but he's not fat looking or bulky, it's like he just a huge man. even though i'm taller than him and comparable in weight he's just a thicker built man. if i didn't know any better i think he'd have gigantism because of how huge he is. but he's a construction mason, building mostly rock walls. the sad thing is he's a crackhead also (i know, it's hard to believe a crackhead being 330lbs huh?) and i can only imagine what he would've been in his prime and actually training for world strongest man, cuz i've seen this guy lift rocks comparable in size to atlas stones but much more oddly shaped and this guy is an absolute monster.

it's sad that he's a crack addict, and he's probably around 50 yrs old now, but he's still just an absolute monster.

[Magnus]

Sad thing is, alot of the people that do have the genetics are probably paper-pushers.

i know a guy who has a similar structure to Cyplenkov. he doesn't have outrageous arms but his hands i would bet are even wider, thicker, and bigger then Denis'. this guy is a huge man, probably 6'2 6'3 and 330lbs. but he's not fat looking or bulky, it's like he just a huge man. even though i'm taller than him and comparable in weight he's just a thicker built man. if i didn't know any better i think he'd have gigantism because of how huge he is. but he's a construction mason, building mostly rock walls. the sad thing is he's a crackhead also (i know, it's hard to believe a crackhead being 330lbs huh?) and i can only imagine what he would've been in his prime and actually training for world strongest man, cuz i've seen this guy lift rocks comparable in size to atlas stones but much more oddly shaped and this guy is an absolute monster.

it's sad that he's a crack addict, and he's probably around 50 yrs old now, but he's still just an absolute monster.

Now I know what I'm gonna do for a living