jad Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Mike, I hear you on the sumo. Two directions to go from there - (1) we could say no sumo (2) everyone could train it sumo and get good at it that way. It's not an easy decision, that's for sure. Jedd And pulling on thick handled implements such as the axle gives huge advantages to those with larger hands so I guess I don't understand why we're concerned about pull heights with stances but we brush over the fact that other support grip events are a farce in their very nature, when trying to compare competitor A to competitor B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andurniat Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 No such thing as a perfect world. Pick a height and go with it. I will lift and compete regardless. Don't wish it was easier, work to get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamTGlass Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 No such thing as a perfect world. Pick a height and go with it. I will lift and compete regardless. Don't wish it was easier, work to get better. X2 Chris it is 22.5" with 45's for the start of the lift. The handle is 1" diameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) Jedd - you're as tall as most - do a lift and have someone measure the distance from the plates to the floor. Find someone shorter and measure them. Then just pick a height. It doesn't look like anyone really cares one way or the other - the only "wrong" thing you could do would be to set a height requirement that a full lift by a shorter person simply couldn't reach. Edited June 14, 2011 by climber511 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 ^Right. Debating it is amusing but like the others have said, I'll be there either way, competing and having a good time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbe705 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Chris it is 22.5" with 45's for the start of the lift. The handle is 1" diameter. andrew measured his and told me 20" to the bottom of the handle. I guess it could have been different brands of plates but...are the plat busters all the same spec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 ^Right. Debating it is amusing but like the others have said, I'll be there either way, competing and having a good time. And I'll be standing next to you making fun of your freakishly small hands. And then I'll cry when you close a bigger gripper than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 ^Right. Debating it is amusing but like the others have said, I'll be there either way, competing and having a good time. And I'll be standing next to you making fun of your freakishly small hands. And then I'll cry when you close a bigger gripper than me. I'll be too busy getting stronger so I can face lift blobs and pull the Inch, to notice your tomfoolery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 ^Right. Debating it is amusing but like the others have said, I'll be there either way, competing and having a good time. And I'll be standing next to you making fun of your freakishly small hands. And then I'll cry when you close a bigger gripper than me. I'll be too busy getting stronger so I can face lift blobs and pull the Inch, to notice your tomfoolery. Your going to lift a blob with your face? I can't top that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Parker Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'm out. Had a recurrence of my nerve trouble. Shoulders don't work right, grip barely does. Sorry to hear your having trouble Bob, hope everything gets sorted out for you soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 What about this as a possible solution use a bar above the PB like that is used in a two hands pinch? This way there is a strong visual for spectators. When my parents where at Durniats event it was obvious to my mother what we where trying to do the in 2HP but I was getting asked why people had two different stances in the thick bar Deadlift. This would also simplify judging and allow the competitor to pick between sumo and conventional pulling as long as the PB can be pulled high enough to touch the cross bar. The only problem I see is that the cross bar would have to have two setting; one for touching the loading pin for competitors using less plates and one where the plates need to touch the cross bar for the monsters out there but i'ts still easy to make the pull length the same. With this different contest could pull to different heights much like how you can have a parallel and credit card set with the grippers. If it would help, I have an adjustable set up I could bring down to nationals with me. Andrew Pantke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamTGlass Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 What about this as a possible solution use a bar above the PB like that is used in a two hands pinch? This way there is a strong visual for spectators. When my parents where at Durniats event it was obvious to my mother what we where trying to do the in 2HP but I was getting asked why people had two different stances in the thick bar Deadlift. This would also simplify judging and allow the competitor to pick between sumo and conventional pulling as long as the PB can be pulled high enough to touch the cross bar. The only problem I see is that the cross bar would have to have two setting; one for touching the loading pin for competitors using less plates and one where the plates need to touch the cross bar for the monsters out there but i'ts still easy to make the pull length the same. With this different contest could pull to different heights much like how you can have a parallel and credit card set with the grippers. If it would help, I have an adjustable set up I could bring down to nationals with me. Andrew Pantke Respectfully- rules are built for the ones doing the event, not the ones watching it. This is not prowrestling it is a strength contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Mike, I hear you on the sumo. Two directions to go from there - (1) we could say no sumo (2) everyone could train it sumo and get good at it that way. It's not an easy decision, that's for sure. Jedd And pulling on thick handled implements such as the axle gives huge advantages to those with larger hands so I guess I don't understand why we're concerned about pull heights with stances but we brush over the fact that other support grip events are a farce in their very nature, when trying to compare competitor A to competitor B. Who's brushing over stuff Josh? The event is a one-inch handle. I'd say that the thick handle advantage to larger handed guys was strongly considered this year, not just brushed over as you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Thanks for the discussion guys. I've done a lot of thinking about this. The event will be a pull to "lockout," as defined as an erect torso, knees and hips locked. It will be nearly impossible to lockout the shoulder. This decision is based on the judging aspect and the view from the spectator. In more detail: Judging: In my opinion, if we forget about the shoulder portion of the deadlift, then we should have very little issue. The knees and the hips should be fairly easy to judge. Pull distance will only vary a few inches. Even with heavier weights, for a healthy individual who has put the work in, the Grip should be the limiting factor, not the hips or knees as they are much, much stronger. View of the Spectator: I was thinking back recently the first time I saw the vertical bar lift being contested and I remember asking myself, "Why is it only a two inch pull?" I mean two inches? I guess I just accepted it as the way it was since it was an established event. Now, even Mikael, the man who I think helped originate the lift questions the two inch height. I do think that the viewpoint of the spectators and the public is important to take into account, so I think it is the best way to go. I also reviewed some of my video doing the PB. I was using a baseball as the marker, which is a bit larger than two inches. All of my legal lifts went at least 4 or 5 inches up, and very close to lockout. I was mainly focusing on the two-inch lift, so I did not go to lockout, but I believe I could have gotten many of them to the locked-hip and knee position fairly easily. So, to reiterate, we will pull to lockout, as defined as the torso erect, the hips and knees locked. The shoulder doing the pulling will be in a different position for everyone based on body type. Let me know if any questions. Jedd What about this as a possible solution use a bar above the PB like that is used in a two hands pinch? This way there is a strong visual for spectators. When my parents where at Durniats event it was obvious to my mother what we where trying to do the in 2HP but I was getting asked why people had two different stances in the thick bar Deadlift. This would also simplify judging and allow the competitor to pick between sumo and conventional pulling as long as the PB can be pulled high enough to touch the cross bar. The only problem I see is that the cross bar would have to have two setting; one for touching the loading pin for competitors using less plates and one where the plates need to touch the cross bar for the monsters out there but i'ts still easy to make the pull length the same. With this different contest could pull to different heights much like how you can have a parallel and credit card set with the grippers. If it would help, I have an adjustable set up I could bring down to nationals with me. Andrew Pantke Andrew, I like your idea, but in this case we will go with "lockout." Thanks for the offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Mike, I hear you on the sumo. Two directions to go from there - (1) we could say no sumo (2) everyone could train it sumo and get good at it that way. It's not an easy decision, that's for sure. Jedd And pulling on thick handled implements such as the axle gives huge advantages to those with larger hands so I guess I don't understand why we're concerned about pull heights with stances but we brush over the fact that other support grip events are a farce in their very nature, when trying to compare competitor A to competitor B. Who's brushing over stuff Josh? The event is a one-inch handle. I'd say that the thick handle advantage to larger handed guys was strongly considered this year, not just brushed over as you suggest. Did we eliminate the axle and I'm just missing it? That was the point of the post. What swayed the strong considerations to go with the 2 Liter style wrist roller vs. a standard one? Also, is sumo allowed on the PB then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 What is a 2 Liter style wrist roller? The axle never was in Nationals this year from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Josh, Suppose we just stop beating around the bush. You apparently have a problem with some event selection(s), so why don't you just come right out and say it instead of making little remarks. Jedd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I have two questions that pertain to my old age and shaky back: 1. Will belts be allowed? 2. Can the off hand be braced on the knee/thigh for stability as in V-bar? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Josh, Suppose we just stop beating around the bush. You apparently have a problem with some event selection(s), so why don't you just come right out and say it instead of making little remarks. Jedd Ohhh Jedd, 1. You're taking this entirely too seriously. As I said earlier, it's fun to debate but I'll be at Nats either way having fun and hanging out with friends. 2. I totally missed the axle being excluded this year and I appoligize for that. 3. I don't know how much more clear I can make my position. I AM the guy that brings up the handsize issue time and time again and I have no problem being THAT guy and will continue to be THAT guy. I'm just pointing out we're debating pull heights on the PB because sumo might give a shorter guy like Bob L. an advantage if we pull to lockout vs. a set distance but we glaze over the fact that the axle just being a thickbar gives an advantage to those with a larger hand. Where's all the "get stronger" comments for that? Even though the axle is not in Nats this year (THANK YOU!) it's still a requirement for "elite", standard at most contests, a qualifying event for Nats, and put on some pedestal in the grip and strongman world; common sense be damned. 3. The wrist roller is 3.5". If such strong considerations were given why would you pick something that thick? It's not like that's the standard size. You've added a thickbar component to it. In closing, it's your contest, you're putting the work in to organize and promote it, so pick whatever you want and if people don't like it, they don't have to compete. However when you put a monsterously thick wrist roller in, don't be surprised when people question the idea that strong considerations were given for hand size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Josh, it is the only wrist roller I have. You act like I hunted through my wrist roller pile and picked out the biggest one or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Mike, Belts are allowed and so is thigh bracing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubgeezer Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 All this discussion about events got to me. I PM'd Jedd, and asked him if I could "donate" a couple of things to the Cause. He can decide if they are worthy of accepting. Last year I donated a Get A Grip DVD and even got a "thank you" PM from the recipient! The participation this year looks good and it all looks like a lot of fun. Good luck to everyone! Hubgeezer Top Tier of the "D List" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 Thanks to Hubz for the donation! Also a major announcement, Andrew Durniat is stepping up and will be bringing his wrist roller set-up to Nationals for us to use so that I do not have to work on re-structuring the wrist roller platform that I have any further. This also means that the wrist roller will be 2 inches in diameter!!!! Thanks Andrew Durniat, and also Brent Barbe and Chris Rice for working on this behind the scenes for me. I consider you guys an integral part of my team in Grip Sport along with a few others who have helped contribute to the cause in various forms. Jedd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 This will give us all something to talk about after Nationals - it will take my mind off the butt kicking I am going to get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Thank you Mike and Andrew for your generous contribution! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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