Squat Depth And Form Check

[The Natural]

Hey Mike,

Others may already have noted this, but you're lowering your head and eyes during the ascent. Keep the chin up. Also, your back arch needs to be more pronounced. Make a proud chest, pull those shoulder blades togeher, and deliberately arch your lower back. Looking better.

[climber511]

Here is a video of some of his big squatters doing them. Pretty cool:

Are they squatting that wide because it's box squat, or would they use the same stance otherwise?

The really wide stance is a result of a couple things. First is the mono lift - you don't have to walk the weight out with it - walking out a big weight and getting into a super wide stance might be a little difficult.

Secondly the heavy squat suits are made to work best with a wide stance also. The wide stance allows more hip and other biomechanical advantages also. There are suits for a more standard stance as well. It's more complicated than that of course but you can learn a lot about it by going to the Westside website and reading all their stuff.

[Guest Bullitt]

Hey Mike,

Others may already have noted this, but you're lowering your head and eyes during the ascent. Keep the chin up. Also, your back arch needs to be more pronounced. Make a proud chest, pull those shoulder blades togeher, and deliberately arch your lower back. Looking better.

Thanks Rex. I didn't realize how much I was looking down until I watched the video a few times. Definitely need to work on it as my back seems to lose what little arch i have whenever my head goes down. Thanks man and have a great new year.

[Guest Bullitt]

Spent a couple hours with Chris this afternoon on my way to see my kids in Cincy. On top of calibrating all my grippers and showing Melissa, Lindsey, and I how to properly snatch a kettlebell, he spent about an hour working on my squatting.

As with anything, actually working with someone hands on is worth a year of watching videos and trial and error. Chris really knows his stuff. He didn't say, "this is the form to use, let's teach you to do it." Instead, he said, let's see you squat and figure out the best way to get you into the proper position.

So away we went. The first thing he had me do was squat down with no weight. I could get down to around parallel. he watched me from a couple different angles and said, "what size shoe do you wear?" "13", i said. Take your shoes off and go put those on, he says, pointing to a pair of shoes that looked like fancy sneakers someone had attached to the soles of dress shoes with a serious heel (ok, that was my first impression of olympic lifting shoes ).

Anyway, I put them on and walk back over to the platform. I think we're about to work on some super secret technique to teach me the key to perfect squats. He just says squat down again. Um, OK... Bam! I went down comfortably, way past parallel. I couldn't believe it!!!! (note - Sam told me early on in this thread to get oly shoes ). Then he had me do some squats holding a light rod overhead. MUCH MUCH better. We did some squats with the shoes on and he had my wife watch my form and then he had me take them off and it was right back to the old crap. Now she knows what to look for. I still have a lot to work on, but what a huge difference! I also found out the right width for me to squat at. It's just slightly outside shoulder width. Chris had me jump up and land with my feet at different widths (yes, the old man can still get air ). Turns out the natural place I land with my feet was the perfect width for me to squat at.

Then, in my stocking feet, we moved over to the rack to work on the wide stance box squats that Louie Simmons told me to work on. Luckily for me, Louie had personally taught Chris how to do these correctly. After about 5 - 10 minutes, he had me doing what he generously called a very good box squat. Of course, this was with just the bar, but now I know what these are supposed to look and feel like. He also had Melissa study my form on these so she can correct me when I start doing something wrong.

The other big thing I need to work on, as already discussed prior, is my flexibility. Chris hooked me up here as well with a yoga course on DVD that has helped him a ton. One of the surprising things that Chris found was that what i thought was my problem with getting an arch wasn't the real culprit. I always thought it was my lower back that didn't let me get a good arch, whether it was squatting or on the bench. Not so. My lower back is actually pretty flexible and arches just fine. It's my upper back that is super tight and has no flexibility. My arch starts fine, but half way up my back it just won't go. He gave me some exercises to work on this and I will focus more on the upper body mobility stuff from Smitty and the Diesel Crew too.

The final thing I need to get over is my, for lack of a better word, fear. Ever since the back surgeries (and almost dying from the MRSA) I have been over protective of my lower back. Not without reason. But I definitely need to get over this if I'm going to progress. If I progress slowly on the weight and get my form dialed in right, the back should be fine.

Anyway, I need to get some oly shoes when I can afford a pair. Until then, I may just get a cheap pair of work boots with a big heel to get the feel. One day a week, box squats in flat shoes and one day a week of traditional squatting with a bigger heel.

Thanks Chris!!!!!!!!! Can't wait to get started! Squats Monday anyone?

[Sher]

Wow, Mike, sounds like you made some really good progress from that session! (Which Chris? Rice?) Very cool. I'm definitely following all this so keep us posted!

[Guest Bullitt]

Wow, Mike, sounds like you made some really good progress from that session! (Which Chris? Rice?) Very cool. I'm definitely following all this so keep us posted!

Ooops. Yea, Chris Rice. Climber. My new workout guru!

[cwdutton]

Good stuff Mike! Glad there was someone who could give you some direction in person. It's pretty hard to look at a video and automatically come to a conclusion unless your name is Louie Simmons

[Guest Bullitt]

Good stuff Mike! Glad there was someone who could give you some direction in person. It's pretty hard to look at a video and automatically come to a conclusion unless your name is Louie Simmons

yea, I was half way there on the box squats, but having Chris there to actually get me in the PROPER position so i could feel it and see it, was key!

I couldn't believe the difference the oly shoes made on the regular squats. Night and day bro. I will keep working on my calf flexibility, but until (or if ever) the day comes where i can do these properly in a flat shoe, I am definitely squatting in a heeled shoe. Hell, I'd squat in stilletos if it helped.

I think getting the upper back more flexible is really going to help with my arch for benching too. At least that's what i'm hoping. And I know it's going to help my DO bending.

[cwdutton]

Good stuff Mike! Glad there was someone who could give you some direction in person. It's pretty hard to look at a video and automatically come to a conclusion unless your name is Louie Simmons

yea, I was half way there on the box squats, but having Chris there to actually get me in the PROPER position so i could feel it and see it, was key!

I couldn't believe the difference the oly shoes made on the regular squats. Night and day bro. I will keep working on my calf flexibility, but until (or if ever) the day comes where i can do these properly in a flat shoe, I am definitely squatting in a heeled shoe. Hell, I'd squat in stilletos if it helped.

I think getting the upper back more flexible is really going to help with my arch for benching too. At least that's what i'm hoping. And I know it's going to help my DO bending.

It will help on the bench! Build those traps, your back, and keeping flexibility throughout is key!

[Guest Bullitt]

Squatted tonight. Here are a couple of the sets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiTtRB1W918

Edited January 5, 2010 by Bullitt

[rico300zx]

No prob, jst makin sure your cool.

Ok todays vid:

2nd set looked like you had the bar on your neck, if it floats would make a nice life preserver. Its going to bury your head into your carpet once it gets heavy. Try keeping it on the back of your delts. And don't bend over keep you back up a little more, you'll be kissin the carpet. And that vid I wanna see all the way through!

Rico

[bcpower66]

Looking more and more comfortable Mike. The heel really does make a difference at the bottom, but don't neglect stretching your calves in a few different positions, it really helps too. Still looks like you pitch forward just a bit at the bottom, I know it's a tough habit to break but practice keeping the weight towards the mid-back of your foot on your warmups with the empty bar.

Brent.

[rico300zx]

Brent

This is what I saw too , the pitch forward, and I think its going to get Mike into trouble that's y I think it may be from the bar being so hi up on the neck. And not looking up again also. but once you have your form you can do front squats and your form will not change. Then you can look anywhere u want too. Empty bar pratice will help but so would 405 teach a quick lesson.

Rico

[Guest Bullitt]

Yea, I was thinking about everything else so much, I forgot to get the bar lower on my traps and delts. next time.

And Rico, with 405 on the bar, I'm not getting out of the hole with perfect form... unless there's a winch involved.

Brent, stretching the calves every day.

Depth looking better on these? I think I got past parallel on every rep.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Bullitt

[bcpower66]

Depth looks great Mike, I wouldn't worry about going deeper than that. Rico is right, with the bar up high, it will want to throw you forward at the bottom. Yes it is a pretty technical lift, so there are lots of things to think about as you are doing it.

Brent.

[CoC#3]

Depth looks good.

The bar looks too high up to me, you have it even higher than oly squatters do. Chalk your t shirt where the bar goes and try to hold it slightly lower. I'm not saying to do a PL type squat, but with a lower bar it is easier to get out of the habit of falling forwards.

At the top, get some air in, and hold your breath throughout the squat - this will help you push out against your belt which will keep you more upright. While on the way up try and drive through your heels. When i remember to push through the heels when i squat the weight goes up a lot easier and i stay upright easier.

I really think investing in some oly shoes will be well worth it. It is so easy to make depth in them, and they offer a stable foundation to squat off. Before i got oly shoes, it was on and off with depth for me as, like you, i'm not naturally flexible and i needed 405+ to even make depth but now i can bury all my squats even with just the bar.

[Stew]

For me personally I reckon working really light weight or no weight until the technique is perfect, then once it is you will just pile the pounds on.

I think one of the best ways to achieve a god squat is lots and lots of reps with a broomstick were you can fully focus on the movement without thinking of the weight. Once you have done the movement enough times it will become so natural it will be the same whatever weight you put on the bar.

[Sher]

They're a lot better from where you started with this thread, Mike! Nice work!

[deadlifterfromberlin]

Hey Mike, looking a lot more stable with your squats. Depth would be easily given good in IPF powerlifting comps... but your knees move still far in front of your toes, because most of your weight is still on the forefoot. You start with moving your butt backwards - good. But when it should be moving a little more to the back while going down you don't do it. I guess your hip should be at least 3cm to 6cm farther backwards at the bottom,. That should help to distribute to load of the bar more naturally on your body, and maybe save your knees from to much stress. So keep working on it, to keep your back and knee healthy (as well as your nose by not landing on it ).

Anyone who gets the chance should take a look how children squat down when they just learn walking - better form there than seen at the gyms most of the time (because the kids don't have the strength yet to squat with bad form...).

BTW thanks Chris Rice for giving out good advice and help continually!

[Guest Bullitt]

Thanks everyone. Still a long way to go, but Chris actually has me thinking I might get these one day.

Lifting in Chris' oly shoes and on a hard surface was much better than my home setup. As soon as I get the money, i will get a pair of the shoes. Will definitely keep working on getting back and starting out of the hole with more up than forward. Chris noticed on this video that I was raising my hips first coming out of the hole, which is what seems to be bending me forward. Going to work on that first move out of the hole with light overhead squats (just the bar).

Going to keep working on sitting back more with box squats once a week as well. I was able to get back further and actually squat a lot deeper at Chris' house with the shoes, but these were definitely better than when i started this.

Thanks again for all the advice everyone. Sucks having to relearn something like this at age 42 (actually, I probably never did them right, but got away with it because I was young and flexible). Anyway, I will keep working with the light weights and get these dialed in. Then look out!

[bcpower66]

Anyone who gets the chance should take a look how children squat down when they just learn walking - better form there than seen at the gyms most of the time (because the kids don't have the strength yet to squat with bad form...).

I was watching my 1.5 yr old neice run around the house at Christmas as she effortlessly dropped into a perfect squat each time she went to pick something up and I was really jealous.

You have the right idea Mike, stay with it using light weights until all the right muscles catch on and the movement will just start to feel more and more natural. Try to see coach Chris periodically so he can keep evaluating you and keep you on the right track.

Brent.

[Guest Bullitt]

Jason Steeves sent me this pic of his nephew demonstrating perfect squat form a week or so ago.

Great stuff, and cute as hell too! HAHAHA

[Shoggoth]

He does like a good squat. Usually a few times a day the little bugger!

[bcpower66]

Ok, I'm jealous again. Great shot, really cute kid! Mine are 11 and 9 now and I get jealous watching them do overhead presses and squats. Perfect form and flexibility.

[lifesnotfair]

Since I don't squat big weights (or intermediate, actually) I didn't want to say anything, but I'm glad deadlifterfromberlin said it: your knees are going too far forward. Your butt should be farther back, even if it means your torso is more leaned forward, as long as the bar path is over the middle of your foot (viewed from the side) and you don't round your lower back it's ok.