bcpower66 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Agreed John. No offence Chris, but credibility also comes from experience, not from writing books. All the advice I saw regarding Mike's vid is generally accepted knowledge on squat technique. Not rocket science for guys who have many years under "belts" squatting! Your assumption seems to be that guys posting on a grip board don't know anything about squatting. Rip is probably a good coach, but again using your logic, would you rather have someone operating on you who has watched thousands of surgeries, or someone who has done them? Brent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdawg Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Mike, I would suggest getting the book Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. Or learn from people who can put up big numbers or have some credibility in squating or teaching people how to squat. As for starting strength, it will give you step by step instructions on basic barbell movements. Squat, Deadlift, Bench and Military press. No offense to anyone here on the board, but most people here focus on hand strength not core lifts. Look at everyones goals. You don't see many high number squats, deads or military press. So it's not the best place to get advise. Just my 2 cents. Chris So by your logic, Rippetoe can squat ad DL more than anybody on the board? He might be a good coach but most of us can out lift him in our sleep. There is value in good coaching, but more value in experience. Brent. Did you read my post. I also said credibility in squating or teaching people how to squat. I'm willing to bet there are pleanty of people that don't have perfect form but they continue to go heavy and don't address there problems or weaknesses. To many people ego trip. It's just not lifting I'm talking about, it's everything in general. People seem to give advise in a subject that they haven't come close to mastering, or they don't practice what they preach. Who's to say Ripp-off is right, though? All he does is try to squeeze every single person into the same box. We can't all squat and pull the same way. People have different leverages that need to be taken into account. Every time I've tried to squat the way he says is "right" I get dumped forward and put a ton of strain on my back. So who would you consider a good teacher or coach? How about this post a video of you sqauting 135 then post on of you doing 90% of your max. Lets compare your form. I think there's a ton of qualified individuals out there (and not all of them are out to make a buck). My issue was your assertion that none of them are on this board. There's videos of me squatting out there, if you want to see them bad enough. I never claimed to be a great squatter, but I did notice some easy fixes to help someone out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sher Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I just really appreciate everyone helping with the critiques and advise. Compared to me, most everyone on here is an expert. I started lifting weights again a little over a year ago and at 42 am pretty late to the game. I just think it's cool that you guys are willing to help a guy that is obviously not super strong at this point, but wants to learn the right way to do this stuff. In fact, I was very hesitant and more than a little embarassed to even put the video up here asking for help because it is such low weight and the form was so bad. But my desire to get it right outweighed my pride (that wouldn't have happened in my 20s ) In my 20s I could load the bar up and go as deep as i wanted. My form was probably not much better then, but I could get there. This time around, not so much. between the two back surgeries and the extra 20 years, the body sometimes doesn't want to do what I tell it. By asking these questions and putting it out there on my grip stuff and my DLs I have been able to reach a pretty decent level in those areas. Hopefully I can get my squat where it needs to be as well. But one thing is for sure, I could never get there without people like you guys helping me. I'm always amazed how willing people on this board are to pay it back and help us guys who are trying to learn. Very cool Anyway, thanks for helping the weak, old guy with the funny form. I will definitely be working on this and will let you guys know how it goes. Thanks Again!!! - Mike My squat isn't there yet either, and dissecting my problems will only help me in the gym. It's been effective for me to watch your form, then look for and study the problems the critiques address. Your problems are pretty much mine btw (and other's, I'm sure). [so, technically, you are providing a public service by putting yourself out there. ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 This thread is spoiled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Chris You are no doubt correct - I had Louie Simmons work with me on my box squat and raw power lifting squat and DL technique with coaching the lifts to students as the focus of the session (s) - multiple times. I've had several national level Olympic coaches help me learn personally and with learning to teach the front and back squat - one of those was Tommy Kono who worked very briefly with me. I'm quite sure none of them know squat of course. And I'm sure that my 51 years under the bar hasn't taught me anything either. Come to think of it - I'm not qualified at all - I learned from a bunch of hacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcpower66 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Louie and Kono?? Now THERE is what I would call credentials....true legends who coach from experience. Coach Rip?? Lots of talk... I agree Parris, this thread has pooped the bed and I apologize to Mike. Hope he got some useful tips! Brent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I did Brent. Thanks to everyone. A lot of new tips and suggestions on things to try. I'm going to keep working on it and report back my progress. All the input was very much appreciated. Definitely going to keep up with the mobility stuff and the goblet squats. I am now going to incorporate box squats and wall squats into the mix. I really need to increase my ability to spread the knees out and get back more than just dropping in the hole. Some of what I heard i had heard before when I posted on this a couple months back (When things looked much worse than this with less weight on the bar ). I have been trying to work on those things, but the body just isn't quite there yet. Also, a tip that I was given before, but forgot about was the plywood. I will definitely pick some up before my next workout. Thanks again everyone! I also have a chance to get to Gold's this week. I will definitely hit the squat rack if there isn't somebody already using it for curls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcpower66 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Hey Mike, if your squats start to look like this, you are on the right track: This guys form demonstrates that with good ankle and hip flexibility, you don't need to bend way forward or go with a big wide stance. He is putting a good load on his quads, but it all depends on your goals. Depending on your proportions and your goals, the big lean, wide stance PL style might suit you, but I prefer to see a more athletic, pure strength oriented lift like this guy does. I've done both styles over the years. Brent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Actually, this is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoggoth Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Actually, this is better. Hahaha! Severe Negatives! Did something similar when I was younger. First time I tried barbell lunges i loaded up the bar and got stuck. I was by myself at a comm. gym. Very good learning experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) When I was 13, my grandma bought me those plastic, sand filled weights and a bench. I'll never forget the first time I benched all alone in the basement and got stuck. Rolling the weight down my bony chest and ribcage was absolutely no fun. Brent, that guy doing the 20 rep squats in that video is actually a member on here. Somebody posted that video a while back and he got on here to post about it. I'll see if i can find it. Good stuff. I would be happy with half that weight and half the reps if i could do them with that form. Question. I go down very slow when I squat, but I notice a lot of guys, including the gentleman in the vid, go down pretty quick and almost bounce out of the bottom. Should I be moving faster when I squat or stick to slow for now??? Update: Andy Ruse - I see you already saw the thread. Edited December 22, 2009 by Bullitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwdutton Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Mike, Speed is key in any core lift. Whether it be the Bench,deadlift or squats. Incorporating a speed day into your routine is something you should SERIOUSLY consider man. Oh, and get a darn power rack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judoboy Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 loads of great advice on squatting. i say mix it up - front/back/OH/goblet/log/kettlebell/keg squats. hitting your-self from different angles with various types/size/shape of weight will build core stability and help dial out bad form habits. in terms of confidence - an experienced spotter is massive! if flexibility is an issue, especially in the posterior chain, i'd focus on front/over-head squats with no or little weight. try doing a OH with poor flexibility, it's all wrong! best of luck - keep us posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcpower66 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Once you find a groove that is comfortable and the motion feels natural, absolutely speed up your descent. I don't recommend bouncing at all, I have injured my right knee in the past by bouncing. The guy in the vid is bouncing off some well conditioned and properly loaded muscles, not the end-range of his joints. What you want to do is "carry" the weight down quickly and in control, and de-celerate to a stop at the bottom, not bounce off your ligaments. When you reach the bottom, you should have completely loaded your hips, glutes, hams and quads to the point where you have energy (myostatic stretch reflex) built up to drive you up again. Keep working at it, keep reading stuff and making small changes until you develop a good squat mojo and have the confidence to make a quick, controlled, effective descent. I'm no expert by any means, but I have learned from many years of powerlifting, strongman, good coaching and trial and error. I will be picking your brain with grip stuff for sure, it looks like you have the same background and success in these lifts! Brent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Thanks guys. Yea, definitely need a power rack. Santa? I will keep working on it and update my progress. More than happy to help on the grip tips Brent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 It doesn't look that bad to me. I think you just need some confidence, you need to keep putting the work in with different kinds of squats and mobility work, and I think you need a platform. There's ways to work around not having a power rack (for instance build some boxes to spot the weight) but a hard surface to stand on should help your form get more solid and consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlifterfromberlin Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Hi Mike, I would say the same as most of the others write. Just some additional thoughts: -The guy doing the 20 rep squats shorter thighs compared to his torso than you (my impression from comparing the vids). This usually results in a little more forward lean for you. -The forward lean should be the result of a backward move of the hip, not from forward movent of the shoulder. (This is just to word it differenly, I know from martial arts training that the same explanation heard for the x-th time suddenly works because others words were used) This also one main point worked on by boxsquats. -Concerning squat speed, I would stay with your medium tempo, as you are not trying to become a powerlifting competitor. I suffered a slipped lumbar disc (L5/S1) in 2004 with enough problems stemming from there - I do speed squat work, but wouldn't if I were not competing in powerlifting. -To help develop the feel for the center of mass staying closer to your heel than your toe while squating, two drills I use for demonstrating how this feel are: 1. Squat down to your personal bottom position (close to something to hold on to, to steady you if necesarry), stay there and move your whole body slighty for- and backward. Basically you keep the feet flat on the floor and flex/extend the ankles. 2. Stand on the aforementioned plywood (in shoes), toes and some of the ball of the feet hanging over the edge. Squat in this position (only bodyweight) and you'll fall on your nose if you don't move butt backwards... Or at least your toes will move to the ground. Nice for developing a feel for your center of gravity... Merry christmas to all of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Thanks again guys. Squats and rack pulls tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timstruse Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 And the award for most controversial squat vid 2009 goes to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 HAHA. I hope this one isn't controversial. Went to Gold's tonight and filmed some box squats. How do these look? Any better? I would have filmed the 225 triple too, but a young man started using the other squat rack to do curls. I chit you not. Anyway, I tried to do what I have heard in this thread. I have been working on wall squats and flexibility/mobility every day. Note to self: do not do rack pulls before squats. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlhdlN0Dls0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoC#3 Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I think you need to grow your goatee back again. Constructive criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I think you need to grow your goatee back again. Constructive criticism. Yea, the goat was good for 5 - 10 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoC#3 Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Grow it long enough and you have 2'' less bench ROM aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcpower66 Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 (edited) Those are starting to look better Mike. Your first few reps, especially the first one, indicate that you are lacking the confidence to make the initial commitment to the squat. Could this be a result of the surgeries? You look like you are initiating the movement by breaking first at the knees which tells me you are trying to protect your back, maybe subconsciously. By rep 4, you start clearly breaking at the hips first which is proper and looks like more of a strong, confident move, and sets you on the right groove. Your lower back is barely maintaining neutral, if not rounding a bit. Do you have the flexibility to maintain more of a positive static arch? Concentrate on keeping your chest high which can be accomplished while moving the hips back and inducing a bit of lean while maintaining the center of gravity where it should be-through your heels or toward mid-foot. Like someone said in an earlier post, simply leaning at the waist will just move the bar forward of your center of gravity and put more pressure on the low back. Any lean should be the result of the hips going back. You look pretty tall, what is your height? The main benefit of box squats is being able to use a box low enough that you load all the right muscles, but have to start from the bottom at a dead stop, developing good drive out of the hole. Your height makes that bench look almost the right height, so keep using it until you are confident, then find a lower box. Do you have the flexibility to move your hands in on the bar towards your shoulders? This helps stop the back from rounding and maintains "tightness" through the lift. All these things are minor points that require just a bit of tweaking. If you try to use exaggerated movements, it will feel uncomfortable and you will think I'm retarded. (you may already!) Sorry for the novel-sized reply, but I'd love to see you nail this movement! Brent. Edited December 24, 2009 by bcpower66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I definitely started feeling more confident as they went on and tried to consciously start back instead of down. I kind of felt wierd on the first couple. Good catch. Plus, I definitely shouldn't have done heavy rack pulls before these. My lower back was already pretty fatigued by this point. Next time, definitely squats first. That's about as much arch as I can get right now. I'm working on it with a foam roller, but it is very tight since the surgeries. I'm between 6'3 and 6'4. Weigh right around 255. I can move my hands in. I can get them just inside the rings without it being too uncomfortable. I'll try that next time. i really appreciate all the feedback! I won't give up on these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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