Us Championships - 2008

[vikingsrule92]

Maybe it's just me. I don't need a prize to compete. I would gladly pay $50 to show up and compete. I think a t shirt with registration is more than enough for most people. Little statues are cool and all but, not needed. I go to see what other people are doing and to meet new people. I think a novice class would be a great chance to learn from everyone else and get motivated to improve. Maybe that's just me

brent

I don't either, I was purely curious. I'm sure I won't get a prize anyway so it clearly doesn't matter to me

[Booyah!!!]

Sorry about this guys, but I just have to bring this up 1 more time. The last time I posted this it got spun after the 1st part of the discussion.

I have what I consider a very important point about the "National Championship" . It appears that The Crushing, Supporting and Pinch aspects of Grip are going to be well represented, however, all 3 aspects of bending, DO, DU, Rev, should also be represented as they are all 3 totally different disciplines. I think 2 styles decided at the meet with coin toss would seem balanced. Each one utilizes a different part of the wrists and grip. This will equalize the competition field and make the "National Championship" results/rankings more meaningful and isn't that the point of it all

There is a lot of interest in the bending Game. It is nowhere near sledge levering or table top wrist curls or weaver stick.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I too would like the Games to grow

[climber511]

Sorry about this guys, but I just have to bring this up 1 more time. The last time I posted this it got spun after the 1st part of the discussion.

I have what I consider a very important point about the "National Championship" . It appears that The Crushing, Supporting and Pinch aspects of Grip are going to be well represented, however, all 3 aspects of bending, DO, DU, Rev, should also be represented as they are all 3 totally different disciplines. I think 2 styles decided at the meet with coin toss would seem balanced. Each one utilizes a different part of the wrists and grip. This will equalize the competition field and make the "National Championship" results/rankings more meaningful and isn't that the point of it all

There is a lot of interest in the bending Game. It is nowhere near sledge levering or table top wrist curls or weaver stick.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I too would like the Games to grow

I'll no doubt draw some fire but here goes. Much of bending the way it is being done now has little to do with grip, hand, or wrist strength. Some people (but certainly not all) have pretty much turned it into an overall upper body crush move more dependent on chest and arms than hands or wrists. Double Overhand is mostly upper body power, Double Underhand can be a good wrist test but in watching videos - it is becoming pretty much of an upside down double overhand. Reverse - a good test if done strictly but even this one is beginning to see some pretty darn innovative techniques. Bending is fun for sure but for me at least, it's not much of a grip event and one method per contest is plenty.

[Bob Lipinski]

I agree with Chris.

Also, there is enough crap to train on already. I think the only reasonable way to do it is to give notice for what the event will be.

I mean, we're not gonna test 3 types of grippers, 3 types, of pinch, etc.

[Jedd Johnson]

Sorry about this guys, but I just have to bring this up 1 more time. The last time I posted this it got spun after the 1st part of the discussion.

I have what I consider a very important point about the "National Championship" . It appears that The Crushing, Supporting and Pinch aspects of Grip are going to be well represented, however, all 3 aspects of bending, DO, DU, Rev, should also be represented as they are all 3 totally different disciplines. I think 2 styles decided at the meet with coin toss would seem balanced. Each one utilizes a different part of the wrists and grip. This will equalize the competition field and make the "National Championship" results/rankings more meaningful and isn't that the point of it all

There is a lot of interest in the bending Game. It is nowhere near sledge levering or table top wrist curls or weaver stick.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I too would like the Games to grow

I'll no doubt draw some fire but here goes. Much of bending the way it is being done now has little to do with grip, hand, or wrist strength. Some people (but certainly not all) have pretty much turned it into an overall upper body crush move more dependent on chest and arms than hands or wrists. Double Overhand is mostly upper body power, Double Underhand can be a good wrist test but in watching videos - it is becoming pretty much of an upside down double overhand. Reverse - a good test if done strictly but even this one is beginning to see some pretty darn innovative techniques. Bending is fun for sure but for me at least, it's not much of a grip event and one method per contest is plenty.

We choose reverse because it focuses on wrist strength more than double overhand and double underhand.

The way I see it, reverse is more "pure grip" strength than the other two because there is less involvement from the upper back, chest and shoulders.

With purity in mind, Climber, your point is well taken. Are you referring to my method of hand wrapping with reverse style? I've been thinking about that lately...

[climber511]

Sorry about this guys, but I just have to bring this up 1 more time. The last time I posted this it got spun after the 1st part of the discussion.

I have what I consider a very important point about the "National Championship" . It appears that The Crushing, Supporting and Pinch aspects of Grip are going to be well represented, however, all 3 aspects of bending, DO, DU, Rev, should also be represented as they are all 3 totally different disciplines. I think 2 styles decided at the meet with coin toss would seem balanced. Each one utilizes a different part of the wrists and grip. This will equalize the competition field and make the "National Championship" results/rankings more meaningful and isn't that the point of it all

There is a lot of interest in the bending Game. It is nowhere near sledge levering or table top wrist curls or weaver stick.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I too would like the Games to grow

I'll no doubt draw some fire but here goes. Much of bending the way it is being done now has little to do with grip, hand, or wrist strength. Some people (but certainly not all) have pretty much turned it into an overall upper body crush move more dependent on chest and arms than hands or wrists. Double Overhand is mostly upper body power, Double Underhand can be a good wrist test but in watching videos - it is becoming pretty much of an upside down double overhand. Reverse - a good test if done strictly but even this one is beginning to see some pretty darn innovative techniques. Bending is fun for sure but for me at least, it's not much of a grip event and one method per contest is plenty.

We choose reverse because it focuses on wrist strength more than double overhand and double underhand.

The way I see it, reverse is more "pure grip" strength than the other two because there is less involvement from the upper back, chest and shoulders.

With purity in mind, Climber, your point is well taken. Are you referring to my method of hand wrapping with reverse style? I've been thinking about that lately...

Jedd - in keeping with the "spirit" of reverse bending - I have to say I disagree with your hand wrapping technique. It's not against the "rules" perhaps but it reminds me of Eli Keiners head butt sledge technique - legal but not "right". I figured you would be thinking about it so I never said anything - I thought I knew you well enough that you would come to it by yourself given time. This is how new rules become necessary - an advantage is found that while legal at the time either changes the event to something other than intended or it's something that not everyone can even do (I'm not sure your technique is possible with smaller hands than yours). I have to agree that reverse (done strictly) is the better test of wrist strength of the three styles at this point in time. Actually I like the old hands on top of each other bending at waist level as a wrist test from years ago. I know it sure cuts down on what I can bend in a hurry.

[Jedd Johnson]

Yes, I agree.

I'm not going to use that technique anymore in any contests.

[vikingsrule92]

Yes, I agree.

I'm not going to use that technique anymore in any contests.

Just out of curiousity, what is it that you were doing wrong? I watched your videos and I can't see anything, but obviously I'm NOWHERE near a reverse expert.

[ox3782]

I am curious as well I have seen you reverse in person and I did not notice either?

[jad]

Yes, I agree.

I'm not going to use that technique anymore in any contests.

Just out of curiousity, what is it that you were doing wrong? I watched your videos and I can't see anything, but obviously I'm NOWHERE near a reverse expert.

He didn't do anything wrong. He thought outside of the box and came up with a great way to bend big steel reverse style. If we just want to test front and rear lever strength, which is really what you're doing if your reverse bend "strictly", then let's just make some type of weaver stick event and be done with it.

[climber511]

Yes, I agree.

I'm not going to use that technique anymore in any contests.

Hey Jedd I really respect that but I have to admit I'm not surprised. Now, do you remember the "vertical" style from Terry Duty's old site? http://home.insight.rr.com/strongman/bending.html

Check it out and give it a try - let me know what you think please (and what you can bend that way). Maybe it's time to add a fourth style to our bending?

[Jedd Johnson]

I know that technique well.

I included that in my bending ebook. I got a 60D pretty easy with that technique.

[climber511]

Yes, I agree.

I'm not going to use that technique anymore in any contests.

Just out of curiousity, what is it that you were doing wrong? I watched your videos and I can't see anything, but obviously I'm NOWHERE near a reverse expert.

He didn't do anything wrong. He thought outside of the box and came up with a great way to bend big steel reverse style. If we just want to test front and rear lever strength, which is really what you're doing if your reverse bend "strictly", then let's just make some type of weaver stick event and be done with it.

Josh I wasn't going to start any more trouble hehe but I have to disagree. There is a difference in Innovative and doing an event within the spirit of the event. Innovative was Eli's head butting a sledge hammer half way back to vertical (not in the rules but come on now) - and we could go on and on of course. If the only object is to bend bigger steel, then that's one thing but if the object is a fair test of a certain event on a certain day in a certain contest, then everyone must do the event within a narrow set of guidelines or the test is not a fair one. Is the Clean and Jerk done under Olympic rules the same as a Continental and Push Jerk - yes the bar ended up overhead but it's just different is all. TO ME the object is to see which of us is the strongest in a particular test of strength - not to see which one of us can think up the most advantageous method that no one ever thought up before that isn't in the rules yet that day. This is just my feeling - I knew when I started in on the bending that others would disagree with much of how I feel. But that's fine - if everyone finds that a certain "new" way is more popular - then we should write up the event rules that way - I want to have strong hands - not strong "loophole" skills.

[vikingsrule92]

I still don't understand what it is Jedd did. Can someone clarify for me, so I make sure as to not stir up any controversy.

[Jedd Johnson]

Here it is if anyone is having difficulty visualizing this: http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=26019

[jad]

Yes, I agree.

I'm not going to use that technique anymore in any contests.

Just out of curiousity, what is it that you were doing wrong? I watched your videos and I can't see anything, but obviously I'm NOWHERE near a reverse expert.

He didn't do anything wrong. He thought outside of the box and came up with a great way to bend big steel reverse style. If we just want to test front and rear lever strength, which is really what you're doing if your reverse bend "strictly", then let's just make some type of weaver stick event and be donetw with it.

Josh I wasn't going to start any more trouble hehe but I have to disagree. There is a difference in Innovative and doing an event within the spirit of the event. Innovative was Eli's head butting a sledge hammer half way back to vertical (not in the rules but come on now) - and we could go on and on of course. If the only object is to bend bigger steel, then that's one thing but if the object is a fair test of a certain event on a certain day in a certain contest, then everyone must do the event within a narrow set of guidelines or the test is not a fair one. Is the Clean and Jerk done under Olympic rules the same as a Continental and Push Jerk - yes the bar ended up overhead but it's just different is all. TO ME the object is to see which of us is the strongest in a particular test of strength - not to see which one of us can think up the most advantageous method that no one ever thought up before that isn't in the rules yet that day. This is just my feeling - I knew when I started in on the bending that others would disagree with much of how I feel. But that's fine - if everyone finds that a certain "new" way is more popular - then we should write up the event rules that way - I want to have strong hands - not strong "loophole" skills.

Chris we all know what a troublemaker you are..ha ha. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one buddy.

In my opinion, the only object of your bending event was to bend bigger steel and that is based off the fact that's how you determined the winner. In other words, you didn't give out style points. Jedd won because he bent the biggest piece. He did it within all guidelines on that given day. If the guidelines listed aren't narrow enough to test what the contest promoter had in mind then perhaps he should pick a better test or tweak the rules.

Personally, I really enjoy "innovation" and it's one of the main reasons I go to contests. I'd imagine the word innovation is all over the Diesel Crew website and ebooks. Learning a tip or "innovation" from somebody else means a lot more to me than some prize. Let's not forget, these innovations are open to everyone. People could have copied Jedd's technique and got the same advantage. If they couldn't or wouldn't that's their problem. I think it's a very slippery slope when trying to determine the difference between good technique and "innovation". I was folding away from my body during the reverse event and I make no appologies. I was trying to learn how to do it in the months leading up to the contest. I still had to kink it with wrist strength though; I couldn't start a fold on a straight piece in the reverse style. Maybe others can? The Inch is famous for rotating out of your hand. I've found if I grip it neutral vs. trying to cock my wrist I can minimize the rotation and it turns it into a fingertip exercise. This technique greatly reduces what the implement is famous for so is that innovation or just good technique? If you grip the ends during reverse vs. the keeping your hands as close as possible, is that innovation or just good technique? I want strong hands too but in a competition setting I'm going to do everything I can, within the rules, to win.

[climber511]

Yes, I agree.

I'm not going to use that technique anymore in any contests.

Just out of curiousity, what is it that you were doing wrong? I watched your videos and I can't see anything, but obviously I'm NOWHERE near a reverse expert.

He didn't do anything wrong. He thought outside of the box and came up with a great way to bend big steel reverse style. If we just want to test front and rear lever strength, which is really what you're doing if your reverse bend "strictly", then let's just make some type of weaver stick event and be donetw with it.

Josh I wasn't going to start any more trouble hehe but I have to disagree. There is a difference in Innovative and doing an event within the spirit of the event. Innovative was Eli's head butting a sledge hammer half way back to vertical (not in the rules but come on now) - and we could go on and on of course. If the only object is to bend bigger steel, then that's one thing but if the object is a fair test of a certain event on a certain day in a certain contest, then everyone must do the event within a narrow set of guidelines or the test is not a fair one. Is the Clean and Jerk done under Olympic rules the same as a Continental and Push Jerk - yes the bar ended up overhead but it's just different is all. TO ME the object is to see which of us is the strongest in a particular test of strength - not to see which one of us can think up the most advantageous method that no one ever thought up before that isn't in the rules yet that day. This is just my feeling - I knew when I started in on the bending that others would disagree with much of how I feel. But that's fine - if everyone finds that a certain "new" way is more popular - then we should write up the event rules that way - I want to have strong hands - not strong "loophole" skills.

Chris we all know what a troublemaker you are..ha ha. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one buddy.

In my opinion, the only object of your bending event was to bend bigger steel and that is based off the fact that's how you determined the winner. In other words, you didn't give out style points. Jedd won because he bent the biggest piece. He did it within all guidelines on that given day. If the guidelines listed aren't narrow enough to test what the contest promoter had in mind then perhaps he should pick a better test or tweak the rules.

Personally, I really enjoy "innovation" and it's one of the main reasons I go to contests. I'd imagine the word innovation is all over the Diesel Crew website and ebooks. Learning a tip or "innovation" from somebody else means a lot more to me than some prize. Let's not forget, these innovations are open to everyone. People could have copied Jedd's technique and got the same advantage. If they couldn't or wouldn't that's their problem. I think it's a very slippery slope when trying to determine the difference between good technique and "innovation". I was folding away from my body during the reverse event and I make no appologies. I was trying to learn how to do it in the months leading up to the contest. I still had to kink it with wrist strength though; I couldn't start a fold on a straight piece in the reverse style. Maybe others can? The Inch is famous for rotating out of your hand. I've found if I grip it neutral vs. trying to cock my wrist I can minimize the rotation and it turns it into a fingertip exercise. This technique greatly reduces what the implement is famous for so is that innovation or just good technique? If you grip the ends during reverse vs. the keeping your hands as close as possible, is that innovation or just good technique? I want strong hands too but in a competition setting I'm going to do everything I can, within the rules, to win.

If the guidelines listed aren't narrow enough to test what the contest promoter had in mind then perhaps he should pick a better test or tweak the rules. Hehe - I can do that!

[Booyah!!!]

Sorry about this guys, but I just have to bring this up 1 more time. The last time I posted this it got spun after the 1st part of the discussion.

I have what I consider a very important point about the "National Championship" . It appears that The Crushing, Supporting and Pinch aspects of Grip are going to be well represented, however, all 3 aspects of bending, DO, DU, Rev, should also be represented as they are all 3 totally different disciplines. I think 2 styles decided at the meet with coin toss would seem balanced. Each one utilizes a different part of the wrists and grip. This will equalize the competition field and make the "National Championship" results/rankings more meaningful and isn't that the point of it all

There is a lot of interest in the bending Game. It is nowhere near sledge levering or table top wrist curls or weaver stick.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I too would like the Games to grow

Thanks for the reply Chris

I'll no doubt draw some fire but here goes. Much of bending the way it is being done now has little to do with grip, hand, or wrist strength. Some people (but certainly not all) have pretty much turned it into an overall upper body crush move more dependent on chest and arms than hands or wrists. Double Overhand is mostly upper body power, Double Underhand can be a good wrist test but in watching videos - it is becoming pretty much of an upside down double overhand. Reverse - a good test if done strictly but even this one is beginning to see some pretty darn innovative techniques. Bending is fun for sure but for me at least, it's not much of a grip event and one method per contest is plenty.

Regarding your 2nd sentence, I find all 3 types of bending very dependant on hand and wrist strength. When I work out, these areas take a significant beating and require extended rest periods for full recovery. Maybe this is because I am a Geezer I have also had to increase my emphasis on Grip Strength because it is my weakest link and is stopping some good bends. I do agree with you about bending taking a lot of upper body strength, all 3 styles do. Bending is also a crowd pleaser and would draw more spectators. I do think 2 styles would be sufficient at contests and they should be rotated. Regarding the strict Reverse bend, I started this way and grew into the style I have now through My Mentors on this GripBoard I am extremely Proud of My Mentors and they have all my Respect Innovation stimulates growth.

Regarding a strict Reverse bend. A strict reverse bend is very subjective and can not possibly be controlled, except maybe if we would go to perhaps a 10 inch bar, so big hands can fit, and have a good size fender washer or something similar welded to each end so the hand could not go past it. Seems a bit labor intensive for what you would get out of it, or is it? Thanks again Chris Booyah!!!

[Booyah!!!]

Also, there is enough crap to train on already. I think the only reasonable way to do it is to give notice for what the event will be.

Thank You Bob!!!! I agree and must have been out of my mind

I mean, we're not gonna test 3 types of grippers, 3 types, of pinch, etc.

Hey, that is not a fair comparison

I look at it as Gripping-3 examples and Bending-3 examples or 2

Gripping and Bending go together so well, they draw a good amount of people together, it would be a shame to have 1 represented without the other because they Both Kick Ass

Thanks again Bob!!!!!

[climber511]

Booyah - this is just for me but my hands are enough stronger than my body that I view it the other way around I guess. I have no doubt if I had someone else help pull on my arms in reverse - I could do much much more. Your body is just strong enough to make your hands work hard and mine is not - darn it! I'm not sure if I can explain exactly how I feel but I'll try. Contests are somewhat different to me than feats of strength. In a contest setting the idea (to me) is that everyone tries to do exactly the same thing in the same exact way to see who is the strongest that minute in time under the exact same circumstances. Changing the rules is fine but not during the short window of time of the contest. I agree with you that innovation is good but I don't think changing the rules in the middle of an event is the way to do it. Bending is so dependent of individual body leverages, strengths etc that people will all find the way their body allows them to bend the biggest steel - BUT - for it to be an apples to apples test - we need to at least "make the effort" to do it the same way during an individual contest event. Then as time goes on and people look at changes in methods etc, we can all see what the consensus is and act accordingly.

The "spirit" of competition is to compare yourself in a fair manner to each other - I don't feel that as a promoter my job is to fill loopholes in the rules but perhaps it is. My fear is that events we like may not be offered because of issues such as this - that would be a shame.

[The Mac]

As someone outside the argument I think Jedd's position is an honourable one. I have no problem with bending as a test of overall upper body strength - use whatever technique get's the steel turned. But as an event in an all-round grip contest - to test wrist strength - then I think it should be quite strictly policed.

[Booyah!!!]

Yes, I agree.

I'm not going to use that technique anymore in any contests.

Just out of curiousity, what is it that you were doing wrong? I watched your videos and I can't see anything, but obviously I'm NOWHERE near a reverse expert.

He didn't do anything wrong. He thought outside of the box and came up with a great way to bend big steel reverse style. If we just want to test front and rear lever strength, which is really what you're doing if your reverse bend "strictly", then let's just make some type of weaver stick event and be donetw with it.

Josh I wasn't going to start any more trouble hehe but I have to disagree. There is a difference in Innovative and doing an event within the spirit of the event. Innovative was Eli's head butting a sledge hammer half way back to vertical (not in the rules but come on now) - and we could go on and on of course. If the only object is to bend bigger steel, then that's one thing but if the object is a fair test of a certain event on a certain day in a certain contest, then everyone must do the event within a narrow set of guidelines or the test is not a fair one. Is the Clean and Jerk done under Olympic rules the same as a Continental and Push Jerk - yes the bar ended up overhead but it's just different is all. TO ME the object is to see which of us is the strongest in a particular test of strength - not to see which one of us can think up the most advantageous method that no one ever thought up before that isn't in the rules yet that day. This is just my feeling - I knew when I started in on the bending that others would disagree with much of how I feel. But that's fine - if everyone finds that a certain "new" way is more popular - then we should write up the event rules that way - I want to have strong hands - not strong "loophole" skills.

Chris we all know what a troublemaker you are..ha ha. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one buddy.

In my opinion, the only object of your bending event was to bend bigger steel and that is based off the fact that's how you determined the winner. In other words, you didn't give out style points. Jedd won because he bent the biggest piece. He did it within all guidelines on that given day. If the guidelines listed aren't narrow enough to test what the contest promoter had in mind then perhaps he should pick a better test or tweak the rules.

Personally, I really enjoy "innovation" and it's one of the main reasons I go to contests. I'd imagine the word innovation is all over the Diesel Crew website and ebooks. Learning a tip or "innovation" from somebody else means a lot more to me than some prize. Let's not forget, these innovations are open to everyone. People could have copied Jedd's technique and got the same advantage. If they couldn't or wouldn't that's their problem. I think it's a very slippery slope when trying to determine the difference between good technique and "innovation". I was folding away from my body during the reverse event and I make no appologies. I was trying to learn how to do it in the months leading up to the contest. I still had to kink it with wrist strength though; I couldn't start a fold on a straight piece in the reverse style. Maybe others can? The Inch is famous for rotating out of your hand. I've found if I grip it neutral vs. trying to cock my wrist I can minimize the rotation and it turns it into a fingertip exercise. This technique greatly reduces what the implement is famous for so is that innovation or just good technique? If you grip the ends during reverse vs. the keeping your hands as close as possible, is that innovation or just good technique? I want strong hands too but in a competition setting I'm going to do everything I can, within the rules, to win.

I totally agree with you Josh!!!! This also carries over to the other innovative techniques for grip lifts, which I am slowly but surely catching on.

I would like to add/include 2 rotating bending techniques in Grip Comps and including US Championships. Due to the fun and popularity this will help expand our Sport. Gripping and Bending Go Together This is 2008!!!!

[John Beatty]

There's plenty of rules in Strongman that have been added because someone "got away" with something once. The Kazmaier rule on Stones, The Pfister rule on Farmers, the little short English dude that used the duct tape ring on the husafell stone. There's more.

Jedd is an honorable guy & if people disagree with something he does, he would (and did) stop. I haven't even watched the vid, but as I said, if Jedd stopped using the form, that's that.

I'm not personally a big fan of reverse or DU, as I never train them & I have wrists like a little girl.

[gazza]

Mike[booyah] Hadland

Matey maybeez yaz just 2 gud an alround bender an people are just 2 frightened to take you on in an all round 3 styles bending comp

Seriously i have competed in the past might in the fiture might not altho it would be nice to turn up at Hornes next Champions bending comp aged 50 and kiss ass then go outside and kick ass in a boxing comp as well sorry couldnt resist that one its the lighter side of me comeing out

I certainly would not even think of competing again in any comp without bending in it but thats just me and i make that personal choice just as others have that right.

As a competition promotor its there choice what they want in there comps then its up to people to choose to enter or not..thats fine but what i am seeing here is alot of people/contest promotors[Dont take this personally just an observation]that are trying to change the bending rules here on the board thats fine for a comp as like i said if i dont like the events thats simple i dont have to enter the same as others have that choice.

With the exception of Jedd and Eric i dont see any of the other guys putting on comps being an Elite bender yet the bending rules are being altered and watered down from what pat originally set out and how can you compare yourself if we are then bending under different rules.

Like i said above maybe some/not all of you contest promotors are frightened of Mr.BOOYAH turning up as the most complete all round bender aged 50 and kicking ass!

[MalachiMcMullen]

I agree with Gazza Although I must say that every so often competing in a contest without bending or other popular lifts is refreshing, hopefully that does not become commonplace though. I stink at bending but it is an EXTREMELY fun event for competitors and spectators alike :rock