Wraps/padding

[Tim71]

Well if you want to take it even farther then the stronger guy is going to have an even bigger advantage because since he's so strong he can bend a stiffer set of wraps just like he does the steel.

This could get picked apart to the point of no longer being any fun. I can understand if this had a high payout but let's face it.. I mean there's competitions held and has this ever been an issue at these?

At what degree do you stop. I agree with Booyah, it's fair now because we all have the freedom of chosing our wraps.

Tim

[JoeGrip]

I didnt really think this whole debate was about the wraps adding leverage I guess. I thought it was more about the wraps adding more surface area to push the ends of the bar together. Shows what I know

[dimmers]

Well if you want to take it even farther then the stronger guy is going to have an even bigger advantage because since he's so strong he can bend a stiffer set of wraps just like he does the steel.

This could get picked apart to the point of no longer being any fun. I can understand if this had a high payout but let's face it.. I mean there's competitions held and has this ever been an issue at these?

At what degree do you stop. I agree with Booyah, it's fair now because we all have the freedom of chosing our wraps.

Tim

Fair enough, just putting some ideas across.

It's not really that difficult though if you think about it, every sport has a set of rules - some more than others - take my favourite sport golf, all you have to do is hit a little white ball into a hole in the ground using a club, how difficult can that be huh? well check the 100+ page rule book to find out!

[Tim71]

Youdimmers. I didn't mean to sound like I was shooting down your idea because my mind has went down that road too and I've come to the same conclusion. I even thought about the golf analogy believe it or not but you know something, if Eric starts handing out the kinda paychecks Tiger Woods gets then I'll switch wraps real quick ha ha! How about it Eric?

It was a good point though and I've always said a set of thick wraps can be a terrible disadvantage over a set of thinner properly wrapped ones.

In my dwellings, I've even thought then you'd have to have rules about if you can use any weights or anything to help wrap it tighter. Just a like a roll of paper if wrapped tight can fell like wood.

That's why I come back around to Booyah's way of thinking. There's no way to get a totally even playing field so just leave it open. If people start getting a solid chunk of rawhide and drilling a hole in it then we can all discuss it and change something. Heck of a bend looks to ridiculous, you know like rawhide pringles cans on the end of a red nail - then just put the bend to a vote of the gripboard.

Even Ironmind's rules aren't totally unbiased. I mean I'm sure some people are better at wrapping those pads.

I guess a person could have handles with holes drilled in them to stick the nail down in and set screws to lock them in all at the same depth then pass them out to benders.

Tim

[neilkaz]

I just trained today. My bigger pads seem to give a better leverage. My smaller pads were hurting my hands so I just went to the bigger ones.

My smaller ones are about 1 inch, and bigger are about 1.5.

Bob and others who sometimes use 1.5" wraps. Can you complete the crushdown to the required 2" or just slightl under with wraps that size ?

Thx .. neilkaz ..

[Bob Lipinski]

I haven't used the bigger pads alot yet, but sometimes I can finish the crushdown and sometimes I can't. It wasn't a problem today with 7" stuff that wasn't too hard.

One thing, however- I almost always switch my pads around on a tough crushdown, even when using the smaller wraps. I did some 5" grade 5's today with my small wraps, and unwrapped everything when it got to 2.5-3 inches or so.

[John Beatty]

John

In my eyes theres a big difference in what you mean by belittling others achievements i started a topic and was then asked for my opinion i did not mention any names but said what i thought about wrapping so i am then the bad guy seems weve been here before i think i am defending my corner but still keeping it quite civil at the moment plus i dont have the benefit of the messenger chat etc were others are going to talk about this then comeing back etc if anyones got anything to say just say it i respect the truth dont pull ya punches on my account a little name calling wont hurt me ive had it all my life as i said earlier we are all free to read into things and interprit that how we like thats just the different cultures etc i certainly dont think this topic/thread should get locked because a few peoples noses have been pushed outa joint some of the things said have got me miffed but im still here in the debate we all have the right to are opinions they may not be liked by either side but were all grown men

.

John

your company has started were ironmind left of and you saw a neish in the market and capitalised on it and you have now helped bring bending to the masses which is a great thing but were do you see it going i agree with you that your standards are much laxer than ironminds thats what alot of people like but do you see bending as just a hobby alot of people seem to take it as a hoobby but are more serious when it comes to other grip stuff for it to go forward it cannot always stay like that i see changes already since the rules were penned by pat and david who introduced double wraps who introduced elastic bands etc this would not be allowed in other grip diciplines you can only use LGC or FBBC v-bars and be recognised yet here we are letting the standards of bending get away from us right under are noses

Gazza-

I certainly could have misunderstood your intent, I'm not a target of it anyway, as I said, I use fairly thin wraps because I can't position bigger ones.

I really see bending as a hobby, I see PL, Strongman & my other strength "hobbies" as hobbies, unless someone pays me to do them. Strongman was actually paying me for a while, but nowhere enough to be a profession. I love the contests & the people, but unless there's $, and enough for me to call it my job (which would be the greatest thing ever), it's a hobby. Not that plenty of people don't take their hobbies very seriously, and nothing at all wrong with that.

Edited May 8, 2007 by John Beatty

[dimmers]

Youdimmers. I didn't mean to sound like I was shooting down your idea because my mind has went down that road too and I've come to the same conclusion. I even thought about the golf analogy believe it or not but you know something, if Eric starts handing out the kinda paychecks Tiger Woods gets then I'll switch wraps real quick ha ha! How about it Eric?

It was a good point though and I've always said a set of thick wraps can be a terrible disadvantage over a set of thinner properly wrapped ones.

In my dwellings, I've even thought then you'd have to have rules about if you can use any weights or anything to help wrap it tighter. Just a like a roll of paper if wrapped tight can fell like wood.

That's why I come back around to Booyah's way of thinking. There's no way to get a totally even playing field so just leave it open. If people start getting a solid chunk of rawhide and drilling a hole in it then we can all discuss it and change something. Heck of a bend looks to ridiculous, you know like rawhide pringles cans on the end of a red nail - then just put the bend to a vote of the gripboard.

Even Ironmind's rules aren't totally unbiased. I mean I'm sure some people are better at wrapping those pads.

I guess a person could have handles with holes drilled in them to stick the nail down in and set screws to lock them in all at the same depth then pass them out to benders.

Tim

Hey, no worries Tim, i was only saying it tounge in cheek.

It's been a great discussion so far, and i think you're probably right when it comes down to it and things will most probably stay the way they are.

[The Mac]

Would there be any value in a rule that states once wrapped a nail/bolt whatever cannot be unwrapped/rewrapped for the final crush?

[pdfk20]

I see this topic has progressed very quickly, but i'd still like to have my say on the debate. I personally have found that increasing the padding has no effect for me, since i find that i lose grip on the steel with increase padding. There is no real leaverage gain for me, maybe this is because i only bend DU. I have used the same leather pads since i started bending back in january, the thickness i think is about 3/4". From what i've read this seems to be relatively thin wraps, but it works well for me, there is certainly some pain for me when i attempt a short G5, or a G8, when i get the pain i usually just stop bending as i don't want to mess with my hands, i figure as i get stronger i'll bend the steel faster hence skipping the pain part. I have proven this to work as when i first started bending, i couldn't take down the blue, i would try tirelessly trying to bend it, and i tried harder the more pain i would endure, but as my hands got stronger i bent the steel in a flash skipping any pain that would be added as a result of weakness.

Looking at what 2" of padding would be that seems to be quite a lot in my opinion, and if there were to be a cut off in padding for a cert bend, i reckon 2" would seem sensible, i can't believe that pain is still a factor through more than 2" of padding, if it is i stand corrected.

[gazza]

This topic and Erics poll have been very interesting and on the whole quite civil i think a few feathers have been ruffled including mine but thats fine we have all had a chance to have are say.

I have been giving this some thought alday at wrk and i then thought who am i to ask people to change how they bend its only a hobby freedom of chioce and the chioce to use whatever wraps you want within reason is what makes the bending hobby and forum uneak its part of what attracted me and why i do it no constraints etc we dont i feel have as much leeway with the other grip stuff i have lost site of my bending roots for a while but i am back on track now

I am prepared to go with whatever the decision is by eric i think it will probably stay the same which is cool with me and upon reflection i think that everyone useing what they want so long as its not rigid is probably the best/fairest solution afterall it is a hobby in its infancy and the idea is to have fun of coarse if people compete they have to abide by the comp rules.

I will give the thicker wraps or double wraps a go later and see what the difference is for me and how it will affect me hell i might not be able to bend s**t

I am off now to go an enjoy some bending which sad to say i aint in a long while catch ya all later...............

[gazza]

Just tried a bend in double wraps lets just say i was very suprised in more ways than one

[wscorpion]

Just tried a bend in double wraps lets just say i was very suprised in more ways than one

?

Please tell us your findings

[gazza]

First off i was taken aback by how much power i lost on the kink i definately have abit more respect for the guys that can bend big steel with big/double wraps it really did suprise me i thought it would make the kink alot easier it seemed to absorb my power i will have to experiment alot more as its the first time ive used double wraps.

No were near as much pain but i was expecting that as its obvious but my hands and fingers still went numb

[dimmers]

First off i was taken aback by how much power i lost on the kink i definately have abit more respect for the guys that can bend big steel with big/double wraps it really did suprise me i thought it would make the kink alot easier it seemed to absorb my power i will have to experiment alot more as its the first time ive used double wraps.

No were near as much pain but i was expecting that as its obvious but my hands and fingers still went numb

Very interesting Gazza!

I've just tried putting a vid together of a new pr bend (for me) of a 6" by 1/4" fbbc square. I first of all gave it a go in single wraps and got a slight wobble in it, then i tried it with double wraps and got it fairly easily. Who knows if it's to do with the pain or the extra padding or what!?!? i'm a bit confused to be honest, especially after you said the extra padding absorbed your power.

this has been a very good topic!

if i can get my vid down to 100 meg in size i'll stick it on youtube just for the sake of this topic

[wscorpion]

First off i was taken aback by how much power i lost on the kink i definately have abit more respect for the guys that can bend big steel with big/double wraps it really did suprise me i thought it would make the kink alot easier it seemed to absorb my power i will have to experiment alot more as its the first time ive used double wraps.

No were near as much pain but i was expecting that as its obvious but my hands and fingers still went numb

And you normally use (if you use wraps) of which thickness?

This is interesting to hear, especially from a more experienced bender. Can't wait to hear if your opinion stays the same after a few more tries

Edited May 8, 2007 by White Scorpion

[gazza]

Im thinking it depends on the extreme of thickness you use as it will effect people differently i used roughly 3/4"-1" over what i usually use i think it was definately to much for me.

the fact that i was bending 2 pieces taped together did not help the matter i will try it on a single piece and see.

I think also if you try a piece that is your absolute max it will yeild different results than a bend thats say just hardish to the individual.

[gazza]

Ben

I can see you hovering bro you need to chip in as your and dont take thios the wrong way one of the most experienced in different wrap thicknesses but more so the biggish wraps i would like to hear your views warts and all

[Tim71]

Gazza,

Kinda what got me to doing the double wraps was that I have some black leather that's perfect on one side. As a matter of fact I believe it's what Maxwell sent me. Anyway, As it got more and more worn I realized that I was either going to have to switch again and my sources around here are very slim, or figure something out so since I like the feel of that leather I decided to wrap the bar in a little leather of another kind to take the tearing up, then wrap this good leather on the outside.

Don't know why anyone else does it but I was just trying to save my good stuff. Well and about the same time I started experiencing numb spots on my fingers that weren't going away and some still haven't completely. You know some guys for whatever reason, like the infamous Tex Cobb (boxer) could take a tremendous punch and never get knocked out. Maybe your hands are the equivellent to Tex's chin. Who knows since we can't try out another person's hands to see what it feels like. Good thing since I doubt I'd wanna give Gazza's back to him.

I can't wait to see what you bend next with any style or wraps.

Tim

[JoeGrip]

Ben

I can see you hovering bro you need to chip in as your and dont take thios the wrong way one of the most experienced in different wrap thicknesses but more so the biggish wraps i would like to hear your views warts and all

Ive tried Bens wraps and they are no thicker or stiffer than suede.

[makey98]

Recently I have moved towards Reverse. With DU and reverse it really doesn't matter what wraps are used. Most likely the biggest steel bent will be with DO style, but I am bending because it is fun and to strengthen my hands and wrists, not to be the "greatest bender" and there are much better ways to test and compete in total strength.....

One a side note, I think people are incorrect in the idea that thicker wraps give you better leverage. In my opinion the real reason bends can be done easier in bigger wraps is because a lot of tightly wound leather has much less GIVE than your index finger and thumb pad area. When you use a thicker wrap the force applied to the leather compresses the leather and spreads the force out over a larger area. Just to give an example of what I am talking about, take a pen and press the tip into where the nail goes into your thumb pad area. Then lay the pen a press it lengthwise along that same area. Much less compression of that area. Same force applied across a larger area.

When you are using thicker wraps you are basically pushing a tough wad of leather against the ends of the bar. This does require less strength, it has to. It is kind of like a vertical jumping on a beach versus a basketball court. However, some explosiveness may be lost as the leather takes time to compress on the kink. Very minimal though. Interesting topic though. I don't really have a good answer to what i think is right. Too me there are better ways to judge pure strength of the upper body, so I think that some amount of grip strength, wrist strength, or hand toughness is neccessary to make bending a worthwhile feat. Otherwise we are just testing strength and there are a lot of more exact ways to do that......Just some thoughts.....

I did get a 5 3/4" galv 5/16" carriage bolt yesterday Reverse style! Big Pr for me....

[kerbjr]

The key to the thicker wraps is keeping them severely tight. Back when I was struggling with the 6in fbbc I tried the double wrap and absolutely killed 2 6in back to back. I have since used thicker/double wraps on bars I cant normally kink with same results. Now I only use the thicker wraps when my hands are sore or injured so i can bend heavy stuff and not be stumped by pain when I am whimpy. Im sure this will be like every thing else and may work for some and not others, but the difference is huge for me. Just for reference I have been a convert to slimmer wraps over the last year and now use wraps in the 1in size. My kink seems to be my strong point now with crush being a little weak. Anyhow my conversion was quite by accident as I just kept cutting off the holey ends of my rags and they kept getting smaller and smaller and I couldnt find any leather locally to replace them........Happy accident..............Also I am part of a strongman group and the huge wraps just look hokey honestly, and take too long to get on and off................good way to lose your crowd for sure. This really has been an interesting discussion and I am curious to hear others findings on the matter............Brett

[gripmaniac]

Would there be any value in a rule that states once wrapped a nail/bolt whatever cannot be unwrapped/rewrapped for the final crush?

IMHO - Nope.

I think this has already been covered, but when it comes to the hard stuff some unwrapping is generally required to complete the crushdown.

Also, not being able to partially un/re wrap for us single wrap benders would be a servere disadvantage - particularly when using a leather wrap

Dave

[gazza]

Ben

I can see you hovering bro you need to chip in as your and dont take thios the wrong way one of the most experienced in different wrap thicknesses but more so the biggish wraps i would like to hear your views warts and all

Ive tried Bens wraps and they are no thicker or stiffer than suede.

You missunderstand me bro I wasnt implying they were stiffer/thicker in that sense i meant in general when rolled around a bar they come out thicker

[dimmers]

Gazza,

Kinda what got me to doing the double wraps was that I have some black leather that's perfect on one side. As a matter of fact I believe it's what Maxwell sent me. Anyway, As it got more and more worn I realized that I was either going to have to switch again and my sources around here are very slim, or figure something out so since I like the feel of that leather I decided to wrap the bar in a little leather of another kind to take the tearing up, then wrap this good leather on the outside.

Don't know why anyone else does it but I was just trying to save my good stuff. Well and about the same time I started experiencing numb spots on my fingers that weren't going away and some still haven't completely. You know some guys for whatever reason, like the infamous Tex Cobb (boxer) could take a tremendous punch and never get knocked out. Maybe your hands are the equivellent to Tex's chin. Who knows since we can't try out another person's hands to see what it feels like. Good thing since I doubt I'd wanna give Gazza's back to him.

I can't wait to see what you bend next with any style or wraps.

Tim

Tim,

you talked about numb spots on your hand/fingers, did they cause you any problems? I've got something similar happening on my forefingers from bending with my small wraps and i'm wondering if it's ok to continue or whether this is doing damage to my hands? or are they just adapting?