Wraps/padding

[gazza]

I would like to start a discussion on what people think on the subject of wraps/padding and keep it CIVIL

I feel that there are now standards that have been set and recognised for v-bar,grippers,pinch etc yet there seem to be none for the wraps/padding we use to bend with and i dont mean for training i mean should a certain thickness/length of pad be used for a certain recognised bend wether its a cert bend or not.

In order to move are sport/hobby forward we now have rules set out by Pat and David and later modified by Eric and Frankys in there as well yet there is no set rules/standardisation for wraps/padding.

I would like a good clean debate on what people think.

[jad]

I would like a good clean debate on what people think.

Good luck

[Mickey's]

I'm for just letting people use however thick pads they want. The more rules and strict order bending takes on, the more serious it gets. The last thing I want is bending to become a place for arguement over minute details about whether or not it is a cert bend.

[liam.mccaffrey]

the only way i could imagine it working would be for fbbc (or whoever) to sell cert wraps like ironmind do.

how else could it be fair. its the only way

the next question would be why are IM wraps unpopular? is it because we HAVE to use them for red anil certs or because they are not very nice to use?

i wouldn't mind using standardised wraps if they were good ones

but for the record i am in favour of choose your own

[Booyah!!!]

There is a standard for wraps. It is whatever thickness/material you prefer. People have different pain tolerances and different sized hands and different strengths. It is the most fair the way it stands. Thankyou. This is not broke, don't try to fix it. It is Fair.

[dimmers]

Hmmm, good question Gazza!

I agree a lot with what Liam said in his post, in that to keep it fair then it would probably be down to the company to sell 'cert' wrapping/pads in order to certify (as Ironmind do). I remember John saying in a previous post that he's going to be selling wraps/ and crush down pads soon, so i imagine using those would be good enough?

It would be difficult to set a standard on wrapping unless it was by the company (like fbbc and IM) because like with steel, leather/suede/fabrics vary so much in thickness/toughness etc etc

Right, time to get off the fence on this one then. I reckon that to get certified wraps should be a certain length and width, with only one piece of wrapping used and no chalk. I feel that once i can do a piece of steel with single wrap then i know that i've dominated it!

how about

leather/suede

up to 300mm (approx 12") max in length, by 100mm (approx 4") wide. Max of 1.5mm thickness.

???

(i know that a lot of the bend has nothing to do with what wrapping you use, but there's not doubt that big wraps help with the kink in DO style - big wraps = easier bend, IMO

Let's just hope that if Gazza sets up his own stainless cert bending soon that he actually allows the use of wraps!!!

[makey98]

I dont' think there will ever be a clear answer on this...I bet eventually it will be like powerlifting where there are different records for raw/different suits/materials, ect....

[Tim71]

I'm 100% for leave it the way it is. If it becomes a torture test then I'm out. I need my hands to work.

Tim

[Jedd Johnson]

I think the way it is now is certainly fair, because anybody can use whatever they want. Takes out all excuse as far as pain.

However, I am tight in the shoulders (I am getting better, but I am still tight) and too much wrap hinders my performance.

I guess as far as a contest is concerned, a promoter ought to have enough sack to step up and declare what is going to be enough and what is too much.

As far as certs are concerned, it's up to the company, i.e. IronMind or Fat Bastard.

If a standard needs to be developed for Grip contest records, then the person that keeps the stats can establish the standards.

Just the way I see it. Good discussion.

[JoeGrip]

4x12 of whatever you can get your hands on.

Contests and certs, whatever they tell you to.

[neilkaz]

Now..I'm basically a bending newb and can barely bend a straw, but I will voice an opinion although I don't expect all that much agreement.

So, noting that 2" is what is needed for a completed bend I feel that only 1 set of wraps should be used and that you should finish the crush down with what you started the bend with.

... ie...if the wraps you start the kink are so wide that you cannot finish the crushdown to under 2", then you must use slightly thinner wraps on the kink so as to be able to crush down to the required 2" or less with the same wraps.

Yes, I am aware that the wider wraps help the kink and for some, enable tougher steel to be kinked. In a contest or for a cert, once I hopefully reach that level, I would have no qualms about using the max wrapping allowed even if it above what I feel should be allowed.

I don't feel that this stipulation will result is guys damaging their hands on the really tough stuff, but I'll defer to those of you who bend the truly tough stuff.

My thoughts re: vendors selling cert wraps. If this occurs, I trust they will price the wraps very fairly and don't take advantage of the requirement for them.

So, if this was a democracy, my vote goes to one set of wraps .. neilkaz ..

Edited April 30, 2007 by neilkaz

[twig]

I'm nobody, and thus my opinion counts for nothing, but IM pad's suck for anyone that doesn't deliberately train with them, I bend more with leather, suede, hell, I bend more with a flannel (washcloth) than I do with the IM pads!

[Tim71]

I've been thinking about this today.

First, Olympic running is a fair and organized sport but they don't all have to use the same shoes. Same for football basketball etc....

Do professional bowlers have to use the handout rental shoes? How about all passing the same ball around? I've seen sports where people pushed the envelope by shaving shoes and even adding a piece of a tire to the sole. Baseball players can't use aluminum bats but that's for safety reasons and I can't see thick wraps becoming unsafe.

I personally have zero desire to cert on the ironmind red nail. I care much more about the gripboard lists and FBBC lists. How fair is it that some people got to use leather on the red nail then the change?

Plus, if FBBC was to crack down on wraps then wouldn't it be unfair to leave all the other certs up who formally certed with thicker wraps?

My own personal belief for myself and myself only is that I let the wrap fit the bar. Not saying it should be any kind of rule it's just my practice. If I'm "just" bending a tough 60d nail for someone then I use a thin loose wrap. Now if I'm cranking down on a 5/16 or ATTEMPTING a 3/8 inch piece then I can get away with a little more. If I'm trying to cert on FBBC stuff then I intend to use the best wrap for the job even more so than I normally would because it's allowed and because the cammera is rolling and I've only got a couple sealed pieces and I don't want to screw it up. Even in Steve Mcgranahan's first video if you notice the more serious the bend the longer and more precise he takes to wrap it up. Even though it's only cloth but still he ups the wrap to suit the bend. Plus some leather requires a thicker wrap just to get the same effect because it's not as good.

I'm not real sure how much advantage the thick wraps has except for the kink and I'm not real sure that with practice in wrapping the smaller wraps that can't be overcome. I still say a thick crappy wrap is no better than a good thin one.

I can slap a wrap around a G5 and bend it. If someone else comes up to me with a chalked up thick wrap and bends the G5 with alot of effort I'm going to be happy for him. If he wants to have an impromptu competition then I can do the same thing and probably get a hexabastard.

For me personally the boost in performance I got from the new thicker wraps was just a side bonus for me. I'm telling you guys I was getting really sick of having to take so much time to heal and always having superglue on my fingers and such. I'm still having soreness but it's the kind that makes you stronger.

I'm amazed at gazza's bare handed bends but if we were concerned about safety like some sports, wouldn't that be the most dangerous kind of bending? I'm telling you too not everybody is capable of doing it with serious nerve damage.

Besides if a person is just using all wraps and has no strength then it will show up on the crush big time. Average person off the streets can't crush a G5 bolt.

All this is coming from a former small wrap guy. I'm a thicker wrap convert guys and don't see me changing anytime soon. I've been able to bend several times a week now and I love it.

Good discusion but I say leave it as is for the FBBC certs and for the gripboard. As for Ironmind it's not really a concern of mine to master their pads. I've got a pair and I've never tried to use them. I use them as a puncture resistant layer on some tough braced bends but that's about it.

Later,

Tim

[acorn]

IMO its fine and fair now. thicker wraps might help some on the kink, but they have their disadvantages. Especially from 90deg on. Thinner wraps may hurt more on the kink. But you can apply more force to the bar through out the sweep and crush because you are not losing force in the compression of the padding. Also you don't have to pause to strip them off when the bigger ones get in the way and let the steel cool. In my mind these things balance out.

- Aaron

[antarath]

1. I think the way it is now is certainly fair, because anybody can use whatever they want. Takes out all excuse as far as pain.

2. However, I am tight in the shoulders (I am getting better, but I am still tight) and too much wrap hinders my performance.

I agree with the first, and the second is exactly my situation as well. That's why I bend DO in front of my chest instead of under my chin.

But I agree with the rest of Jedd's post. It's all up to the companies (IM, FBBC).

And paintolerance; like someone else said; "I need my hands to work with". So do I. Only a callus on one of my hands is enough to make me useless at work.

I lift 11000 pounds a day at work, so I need my hands and shoulders

Mats

[AP]

Yeah, like Acorn said, the advantages to really thick wraps balance out after 90 degrees or so. As for only allowing people to finish steel with the same wrap, on the harder steel you'll find that it wants to spring back at you that you need to adjust and re-wrap tighter. I'm another one that's fpr the way it is. BUT just thinking about a possible rule, it should be thickness after the wrap, not length or whatever of the wraps before. I guess you could get like a pvc pipe with i-dont-know a 1.5" inside diameter, and the wrapped bar would have to fit through there before the bend.

[ObsceneJester]

With discussions like these (even tho it needs to be brought up) that DO style feels like it is loosing it legitimacy in the bending world. I personally am a nobody in bending, so I don't think it's right for me to decide on something that I have had no part in making popular, setting it up or even moving forward.

Like everyone else has said, until FBBC and/or contest make up rules per contest sells wraps or puts stipulations on the wrapping, I say stay the same.

[bencrush]

Like a few already said, using thick wraps has some advantages and disadvantages. I can kink harder stuff with less pain with my double pads, but I have to pause around 90 degrees to strip the wraps off. And that is a disadvantage. It lets the metal cool down. I've bent decent stuff with Ironmind Pads and double pads. I like the thicker padding more, because like Tim, if I'm training, I like to be able to do it as much as I want to. Not as much as my minor skin injuries will "allow" me to train.

It'll turn out to be just like the equipped versus non-equipped contests in the end. Give Gazza a pillow to wrap around a bar and he'll bend something beyond our capabilities. Tell him to bend bare handed and he'll do the same. The same strong guys will win both ways if they train.

In the end it comes down to training however the hell you want to train. If the average guy on the street is not "impressed" by your bending, then flabbergastenpoopy him. You're probably not bending with the goal of him being impressed by your thin wraps. You are most likely bending to bend the biggest, hardest, thickest steel possible. So stop limiting yourself or just go bare handed like Gazza.

[Bob Lipinski]

The rules are okay that are in place right now, why change them?

No need to go to vendors selling wraps. Why make it more difficult and expensive than necessary?

[dimmers]

Good post Tim, i didn't think of it like that!

I suppose the way things are then everyone has the choice to use thick wraps or small wraps or even no wraps, but either way the strongest/best bender will always come out on top!

I liked the idea of a previous post though were you could use what ever length wrap you like as long as the wrapped nail could fit into a pipe of a certain diameter (good idea!)

[antarath]

I agree, Tim said it all. Great post you longbar freak!

[graeme]

well i started with thin rubber matting stuff that really offered no padding and compressed alot before i'd be able to get full force exerted into the bend.....

I now have a few sets if IM pads since i want to cert on a IM red under IM rules, I know thats here nor there.

I also recently bought a welder apron and cut it into 4" x 12" strips for wraps. During my bending medaly last night I used both my IM pads and my leather wraps. I rolled them differently, 1 thick and 1 thin in both, and i personally couldn't feel any difference in extra advantage of a thicker wrap, even more i bend the 6" x 1/4" hex with the thin IM pads....

so why make up a rule when:

a) ain't nothing wrong with the current rules

b) make things complicated

If there is a standard set for the thickness and grade of leather will that leather be able to continually bought with all the same characteristics so everyone is using the same no matter when they bought their wraps....

[antarath]

I started with IM pads, then moved on to some leather pads that were 1" x 5" hahaha. They were 1/32" thick. Then proceeded on and bent lots of 6" grade 5 with papertowels. I'll never got back to that, that's for sure.

[John Beatty]

I'll put in my bit as a "vendor". I'm offering wraps because I can get leather at a reasonable price now & it's a convenience. How many posts have been up here on "where can I find leather wraps". I remember starting out bending using towels, washcloths, old wrist straps, work gloves & whatever else wouldn't hurt.

I made my cert rules looser so more people could access the goodies & get on the list & I think it's helped get more people interested in bending. Many levels, starting at Grade 5, has got people into it. No restrictions on wraps, because at the time I didn't offer wraps. Now I do, but STILL no restrictions. I don't think leather is a good material for "standard cert wraps", because, like steel, there's a good bit of variation in thickness & stiffness. I personally am not a fan of cordura, or kevlar. Too slippy for my taste, and it hurts unnecessarily - bending big steel already hurts enough, I think. It's not a test of pain tolerance, in my mind, just of strength. I use a pretty thin wrap, but I don't care if the wrap some guys use is big, a thick wrap hinders me, I can't use nearly as much force, so to me a thick wrap is harder.

The standard size I'll sell will be 4.25 x 11 ish. Why? because that's the size of the catalog I use as a pattern. If you want to use a "certified" size FBBC wrap, request a catalog from Uline shipping supplies... , that's what I'll use. I personally cut them down to 10", so I guess I'm not personally using a "cert length" wrap.

No standard wraps, just bend big steel.

[Tim71]

Thank you John! That's why I'm anxiously awaiting certing on your stuff and I personally have no goals to cert with ironmind and nothing against them just to me your much more in tune with the bending world.

Can't wait for my order to get here and make a vid.

Oh and thanks Ben for helping to convert me to more sensible and less torturous wraps.

Tim