Wraps/padding

[ObsceneJester]

HOW can i stand here an compare myself with PAT,BIG STEVE,GREG & DAVE etc if i am were to use alot bigger wraps/padding than those people and how can i try and duplicate or exceed PATS standards if i dont use similar methods EG:- Thin wraps no/very little chalk and no elastic bands i certainly dont want to be held in the same light or referred to as equal to these guys if i used different methods/materials

Gary the thing is you have nothing to prove to anyone. You don't need to compare yourself to Pat, Steve, Greg or even Dave. You bend metal for a hobby. You were about to leave the Gripboard because you were tired of the politics all you wanted to do is bend. Personally anyone who knows anything about bending will tell you that bending with almost nothing is much harder for the DO style..

Once again I have nothing to prove if I were to use thicker wraps.

Personally I think you are the best bender to date, my opinion. You don't need to worry about comparing yourself to them, bend the steel for you and if you want for records..

[Tim71]

Here here to what Ben and others have said.

Another comparison I was thinking about. In the 77 world's strongest man competition Franco Columbo decided to bend the first 2 bars in his teeth. Did it make them count anymore? No. Did it impress the crowd more? Probably some. It was an extra something to throw and was impressive but in the end a bend was a bend. The ones who bent it around their neck got just as much credit. Some were even stacking towels like crazy but it all counted. The rules were one hand at each end of the bar and hands / elbows couldn't touch the body and you had to remain "reasonably upright".

I'm hugely impressed with Gazza's barehanded bends. Honestly have no idea how he can stand it. But honestly when you talk about trying bigger wraps I'm excited about how big your bends might get. Can you get 10.5 mm or 13/32 or even 7/16? I say give it a go. I bend some lesser stuff for my level with thinner wraps and I do most of my bigger stuff with thick wraps and that's how I see it staying for me. Like I said I'd rather bend than be a spectator.

I think John's right on the money offering wraps for those who can't get them or for those who'd like to try a wrap that might be the same as what others might be using to get the idea how their wraps stack up. That's why I may order a pair next time. But keeping the cert rules as they are is 2 thumbs up in my opinion.

Now, if I was a paid strongman then I would feel it my obligation to be able to bend with a quick wrap that was fairly thin simply to keep the show moving and not let it slow down. I think that's a different scenario and the big guys are smart to do it that way.

Just my opinion from a fairly new bender.

Tim

[ObsceneJester]

HOW can i stand here an compare myself with PAT,BIG STEVE,GREG & DAVE etc

I think we all can agree that you're an amazing bender, but in order to be a truly great bender you let other people compare you to others, not yourself. That's like me going around telling people how humble I am.

Pat, Big Steve, Greg & Dave don't go around comparing themselves to each other and visa versa. Legends don't decide when they're legends, it's the people that they inspire who do that for them bro..

Anyways I'm looking forward to that MOASB being slain.

[gazza]

You all feel free to do what you want to do as this topic has shown me that you all are going the easier route why not start injecting the juice and adding the pipes to the ends of the bar easy,easy,easy reminds me of the roiders that go the gym for a few months then go on the juice cause they cant be bothered putting the time in

Eric,Big steve,Pat,dave and greg etc all helped pave the way for me and others and they all used wraps 1 1/4inch or less and yes BEN they were free to use more if they wanted but why didnt they because they new in themselves that what they were useing was an acceptable standard and kept the feat just that a FEAT of Strength.

I remember when i was arguing continuesly with Mikael over the use of extra padding and the folding debate etc and i now agree with mikael that extra padding does improve leverage i fought long and hard not to be called a DO clown bender and proved to people that i can bend big stuff useing the DO style without masses of padding but now i see it all going back that way

people say i inspire and motivate them to do what use huge wraps i dont think so if thats how i motivate people then i dont want any part of it thankyou i earned my stripes the hard way just like Pat,Big Steve,Eric,Dave & Greg etc and that was through hard work not just slapping on some double wraps and hitting big steel i thought imparting some usefull information like isos etc and hints and tips on how i train and what i do would inspire people to take the correct path but obviously most want the quick solution.

I was invited over to BBB3 at someone elses very generous expense and was going to try and Motivate and Inspire a few with the way i bend guesse what i wont be bothering now as i dont feel comfortable inspiring people to do things the easy way.

Hercules came to a road that split in two one path lead to the easy untold wealth,pleasure and debortuary the other path lead to the 7 trials and was very hard have a guesse which path the young HERCULES took

[dimmers]

Gazza, not sure your i agree with all of what you said in your previous post.

We've got a good discussion going here and i think there's been some good points made and said.

I think it has to be down to the individual to use what they want when bending as everyone wants to bend big steel.

When it comes to certing though i agree that using small wraps is the way to go as there's not doubt with the DO style you get an advantage with bigger wraps. I feel a greater sense of achievement finally getting a tough nail/bolt/ bit of steel once i can get it in small wraps (all IMO please note)

However, to say that some are going down the easy route (or want to take the easy route) is a bit unfair. No matter how thick a wrap i use in my training there's still no way i could do some of the bends you've done, but that doesn't take away the amount of effort i put in to my training with big wraps to increase my strength and power.

As with all the guys here in their training (who use big wraps) i doubt any of them put in less than 110% when it comes to effort when bending, i know i put that effort in to the point of dizziness on some bends - even an injury occured across my chest muscle when ISO crush training several weeks back

I'm a bit disappointed to think that you're not pleased with how much you inspire and motivate people when i comes to bending steel regardless of how they wish to bend steel??

[climber511]

Gazza - what do you consider "big" wraps - and what diameter are you currently using? I saw where you posted the length but what is that when wrapped? As you have progressed, how have you changed size, material, length etc of wraps - and how did each change affect things for you? You seem to have studied bending as well as just bent so a sort of history lesson of what you have used and the "why" of what you now use would be interesting.

Judging just from your quote below - is 1 1/4" a sort of dividing line in your mind? I guess I'm trying to get a handle on what you consider a small, acceptable, and big wrap in terms of diameter when wrapped? Thanks, climber511

"Eric,Big steve,Pat,dave and greg etc all helped pave the way for me and others and they all used wraps 1 1/4inch or less and yes BEN they were free to use more if they wanted but why didnt they because they new in themselves that what they were useing was an acceptable standard and kept the feat just that a FEAT of Strength."

[Alawadhi]

I see no problem with double wraps. You CAN progress with double wraps. I didn't use double but I have a leather that john Beatty gave me and it's thick. It will help to bend bigger steel. I can get the new reds in 5 minutes or so in those wraps. And I am SURE if I did bend the new reds in those wraps in less than 1 minutes, I will destroy the new reds with IM pads (which is very thin and though) in less than 30 seconds. So sometimes thin pads give more advantage. The thicker the pads, the more it absorbs energy/power. Plus thick leather/pads aren't like a pipe.

[bencrush]

You all feel free to do what you want to do as this topic has shown me that you all are going the easier route why not start injecting the juice and adding the pipes to the ends of the bar easy,easy,easy reminds me of the roiders that go the gym for a few months then go on the juice cause they cant be bothered putting the time in

Eric,Big steve,Pat,dave and greg etc all helped pave the way for me and others and they all used wraps 1 1/4inch or less and yes BEN they were free to use more if they wanted but why didnt they because they new in themselves that what they were useing was an acceptable standard and kept the feat just that a FEAT of Strength.

Aren't some of these guys that you are now constantly referencing the same guys that you were saying less-than-complimentary things about not too long ago? I'm confused. You are in a league of your own right now man. No one that I'm aware of is threatening your bending supremacy. So why the shitty remarks? I think a great bend is a great bend, regardless of padding. Of course padding makes a difference on what can be bent. I think everyone who bends is aware of that by this point. But the padding sure as shit doesn't bend the steel for me. Nor does it crush the steel down to 2" or less for me. Does the thick padding help me do these things? Yes. Does a Ferrari help me get cross country faster than a golf cart? Again, yes. As long as the rules allow the Ferrari, the person who chooses it will most likely arrive at their far away destination much quicker. And although the guy who chose the golf cart might be tough, he would not necessarily be the smartest cookie for choosing the golf cart when the other option would get him there quicker and more comfortably. Maybe not a great analogy. I remember when i was arguing continuesly with Mikael over the use of extra padding and the folding debate etc and i now agree with mikael that extra padding does improve leverage i fought long and hard not to be called a DO clown bender and proved to people that i can bend big stuff useing the DO style without masses of padding but now i see it all going back that way

people say i inspire and motivate them to do what use huge wraps i dont think so if thats how i motivate people then i dont want any part of it thankyou i earned my stripes the hard way just like Pat,Big Steve,Eric,Dave & Greg etc and that was through hard work not just slapping on some double wraps and hitting big steel i thought imparting some usefull information like isos etc and hints and tips on how i train and what i do would inspire people to take the correct path but obviously most want the quick solution.

I have never said a bad thing about one of your bends. Not with thicker pads. Not with thinner pads. Not when you bent bare handed. And you do inspire a lot of people. But if you succeed in inspiring a bunch of people to use such thin padding that they end up injuring themselves, when they could have avoided that injury by using thicker pads, that would be a completely negative impact. And who is to decide the "correct" path? Surely it would be the bender themself, and not you. Just because you're world's stronger than most of us doesn't necessarily mean you're the only one qualified to give advice about what should be the standard padding diameter. You are not normal by any stretch of the imagination. Most of us, if bending, or more accurately, attempting to bend some of the crazy stuff you have done, would have 100% chance of injuring ourselves. No guesswork there in my mind. And you can come back and tell me it's all in the mind, but I've always wanted to fly and no amount of positive thoughts will allow me to do that under my own power.

I was invited over to BBB3 at someone elses very generous expense and was going to try and Motivate and Inspire a few with the way i bend guesse what i wont be bothering now as i dont feel comfortable inspiring people to do things the easy way.

Hercules came to a road that split in two one path lead to the easy untold wealth,pleasure and debortuary the other path lead to the 7 trials and was very hard have a guesse which path the young HERCULES took

Gazza, you started this thread asking people for their opinions on the wraps and padding. And then added that you wanted to "keep it civil." It now sounds like you just wanted us to all agree with you. You know I've never questioned your strength, whether you used thicker pads or thin pads or no pads.

However, I am questioning your judgment in saying that those who choose to use thick pads are choosing the easy route. The easy route is NOT TRAINING! I choose to support those who train. You used to be the same. What happened?

[JoeGrip]

This thread got lame in a hurry, just bend the steel people. When more people get to the koab level then they can all get together and have their own childish hissy fits about who's bend was better and who's tougher, right now its irrelevant.

Hey Gazza, I bet youll never bend the 1/2"x7", ever. There that should keep him occupied for at least a little while.

[Tim71]

Good luck guys with whatever wraps you use.

Peace!

Tim

Edited May 6, 2007 by Tim T

[gazza]

HOW can i stand here an compare myself with PAT,BIG STEVE,GREG & DAVE etc if i am were to use alot bigger wraps/padding than those people and how can i try and duplicate or exceed PATS standards if i dont use similar methods EG:- Thin wraps no/very little chalk and no elastic bands i certainly dont want to be held in the same light or referred to as equal to these guys if i used different methods/materials

Gary the thing is you have nothing to prove to anyone. You don't need to compare yourself to Pat, Steve, Greg or even Dave. You bend metal for a hobby. You were about to leave the Gripboard because you were tired of the politics all you wanted to do is bend. Personally anyone who knows anything about bending will tell you that bending with almost nothing is much harder for the DO style..

ROB so i take it that noone else ever wants to or does compare themselves to others its just me then so your saying you would not like to bend the steel that these men or others have bent if not why bend then?

Example if any of the above bend a KOAB bars in 1 1/4" wraps then when i bend the same bar in the same thickness wraps then i think i can rightly compare myself and why should i not compare myself if i have earned that bend in the same way that other person has then thats fine by me.

What im trying to get across is that for me personally thats how i work i set a target with a set of criteria then i go after that it might be pats Insane Bastard bend in small wraps etc if i bend that same bar with double the padding how can i in my mind compare the 2 bends i cannot yes i bent the bar in thicker/longer wraps but thats not good enough for me i want to be atleast an equal in comparisons not a lesser otherwise why bother thats part of why i bend

Once again I have nothing to prove if I were to use thicker wraps.

Personally I think you are the best bender to date, my opinion. You don't need to worry about comparing yourself to them, bend the steel for you and if you want for records..

again why not compare who starting off does not want to emulate or be like Big Steve,Pat,Greg & Dave,Eric etc i know that when i first started bending that i always wanted to bend steel that Pat and others were bending so i take it that know one wants to bend big steel like these men

Heroe Worship maybe but like so many others i grew up reading comic books wanting to be strong like the Thing and the HULK etc Now its These men above and others like Alexander Zass and the Mighty Atom etc.

[Alawadhi]

You keep saying Pat bent the insane bastard in small wraps with no chalk and no elastic bands. I think you forgot you did that to the fantastic shiny which is much harder. In addition, you did the shiny barehanded which I believe no one did it. Furthermore, I think steel bending is to test one strength not ones hand toughness. If you want to know how though your hands are go break a rock or grab a HOT rock/coal.

[gazza]

Gazza - what do you consider "big" wraps - and what diameter are you currently using? I saw where you posted the length but what is that when wrapped? As you have progressed, how have you changed size, material, length etc of wraps - and how did each change affect things for you? You seem to have studied bending as well as just bent so a sort of history lesson of what you have used and the "why" of what you now use would be interesting.

Chris i consider anything over 1 1/4inches when rolled around a 5/16"bar Excessive?

I started off useing very smal wraps 6inch and were 1/2" when rolled around a 5/16"bar these were very thin leather the thinnest i have ever used and i bend daily mostly useing 60ds but with 8mms hrs as isos and prekinked stuff thrown in i then through greed to get to the bigger stuff quicker started to use thicker stuff and yes they did help me get the bigger stuff but i was selling myself short as i could not get these same tougher bars with the thinner wraps but in my hunger/greed to get better i was in effect going backwards because altho i could bend bigger stuff in the thicker wraps my hands were not getting conditioned neither was the mind to the pain tolerances to help the hands for what was to come i quickly got the g8 then the g9 then a red but i was delooding myself and when i got the Ironmind wraps off of FRANKY and tried a RED i was brought back down to earth infact i even failed on a g8 in these wraps so i new that i needed to work on my hand toughness as well as the mind i began reading the Mighty Atoms book every night and bending multiple times a day/night in order to always through the body/mind off and make it adapt.

I then found Stainless and desided to use mostly this in my training as i realised that struggleing on the crush all the time would 1 toughen up my hands/resolve for pain and make me a better bender

I bend daily or do isos or both depending on what stock i have if i am skint then i obviously dont have as much stock to train on so its mostly isos with a hard bend or 2 if i have plenty of stock then its an attack on a PR bar multiple times a day as well as isos and as the days go on i just attack stock and do isos till i either need a break through cold/flu simtoms of severe overtraining or an injury forces me to stop.

Wraps/padding i have 3 sets a pair thats 1 1/4" a pair thats 3/4" and a pair thats 1/2" when rolled around a 5/16" bar i use any of the 3 pairs depending on the bar i am tryng and how my hands feel at the time i also and have been for a good while now been upping my barehanded bending as well as Reverse and Du styles as i feel that these 3 styles will eventually overtake DO win popularity and provide a more meaningfull comparison than the DO style besides i want to be decent in all these styles plus others as well as Barehanded before i quit

Judging just from your quote below - is 1 1/4" a sort of dividing line in your mind? I guess I'm trying to get a handle on what you consider a small, acceptable, and big wrap in terms of diameter when wrapped? Thanks, climber511

"Eric,Big steve,Pat,dave and greg etc all helped pave the way for me and others and they all used wraps 1 1/4inch or less and yes BEN they were free to use more if they wanted but why didnt they because they new in themselves that what they were useing was an acceptable standard and kept the feat just that a FEAT of Strength."

Doesnt really matter what i think or say as its already ruffled lots of peoples feathers but here goes and its how i see it i will only use what i see others before me have used and not what they were free to use i know that the people i have mentioned have done the best bends with wraps around 1 1/4" thick or less pats done Mag shiny and KOAB bars in alot smaller wraps so i personally wont go over 1 1/4"thick and will once i complete a bend with those wraps gradually try to work down to the 5inch x 1/2'nch wraps.

[gazza]

HOW can i stand here an compare myself with PAT,BIG STEVE,GREG & DAVE etc if i am were to use alot bigger wraps/padding than those people and how can i try and duplicate or exceed PATS standards if i dont use similar methods EG:- Thin wraps no/very little chalk and no elastic bands i certainly dont want to be held in the same light or referred to as equal to these guys if i used different methods/materials

Gazza, we can all compare ourselves to these immortals because they were free to use the same wraps that we are using. They just chose not to for some reason. If they can bend bigger stuff with thicker wraps, then power to them. Talk is...

Ben

Feel free to pm or email these guys and ask them why they did not use thicker wraps than they did/do i bet the answers will be similar to mine I personally know that PATS gone on about wraps and conditioning the hands to bending by useing less and less padding as his hands adapted he sets the standard for bending with thin wraps so thats what i try to emulate just because i had a personal beef with him dont mean i dont respect what he has done for bending and yes talk is cheap so does that mean i have got you rilled up enough to start DO Style bending seriously again seems so with your recent bend of the shortened edgin Bring it matey i will be waiting i need to get fired up again

[gazza]

HOW can i stand here an compare myself with PAT,BIG STEVE,GREG & DAVE etc if i am were to use alot bigger wraps/padding than those people and how can i try and duplicate or exceed PATS standards if i dont use similar methods EG:- Thin wraps no/very little chalk and no elastic bands i certainly dont want to be held in the same light or referred to as equal to these guys if i used different methods/materials

Gazza, we can all compare ourselves to these immortals because they were free to use the same wraps that we are using. They just chose not to for some reason. If they can bend bigger stuff with thicker wraps, then power to them. Talk is...

Gazza, Ben, et all,

If I may chime in here about some of these guys' wraps. My wraps were kindly given to me by Greg and they are the same wraps he uses and 1" in diameter when wrapped around 5/16" steel. At BBB1 BigSteve DU bent that Grand standing 3 ft in front of me and I had the pleasure of sitting by him and chatting with the legend for much of the contest. I'm pretty sure his wraps were similar to Greg's and mine.

Why did Greg not give you some double wraps or thicker wraps or Big Steve use double wraps or thicker wraps i wonder?

Gazza, a man has to do what makes him feel good and proper !! But don't sell yourself short, mate ! You just bent a Shiny Mag equiv. DU and that is awesome.thankyou it makes me feel good and proper knowing i did something as good as or better than one of my Heroes useing the same/similar criteria.

The sport awaits watching you superstars bend harder and harder stuff and further expand the records in DU and reverse as well as DO.

Neil

Should not these records have better guidelines then they do at present for equal comparisons most other Elite or World Records do

.. neilkaz ..

[gazza]

You all feel free to do what you want to do as this topic has shown me that you all are going the easier route why not start injecting the juice and adding the pipes to the ends of the bar easy,easy,easy reminds me of the roiders that go the gym for a few months then go on the juice cause they cant be bothered putting the time in

Eric,Big steve,Pat,dave and greg etc all helped pave the way for me and others and they all used wraps 1 1/4inch or less and yes BEN they were free to use more if they wanted but why didnt they because they new in themselves that what they were useing was an acceptable standard and kept the feat just that a FEAT of Strength.

Aren't some of these guys that you are now constantly referencing the same guys that you were saying less-than-complimentary things about not too long ago? I'm confused. You are in a league of your own right now man. No one that I'm aware of is threatening your bending supremacy. So why the shitty remarks? I think a great bend is a great bend, regardless of padding. Of course padding makes a difference on what can be bent. I think everyone who bends is aware of that by this point. But the padding sure as shit doesn't bend the steel for me. Nor does it crush the steel down to 2" or less for me. Does the thick padding help me do these things? Yes. Does a Ferrari help me get cross country faster than a golf cart? Again, yes. As long as the rules allow the Ferrari, the person who chooses it will most likely arrive at their far away destination much quicker. And although the guy who chose the golf cart might be tough, he would not necessarily be the smartest cookie for choosing the golf cart when the other option would get him there quicker and more comfortably. Maybe not a great analogy. I remember when i was arguing continuesly with Mikael over the use of extra padding and the folding debate etc and i now agree with mikael that extra padding does improve leverage i fought long and hard not to be called a DO clown bender and proved to people that i can bend big stuff useing the DO style without masses of padding but now i see it all going back that way

ben

Personel beefs with pat aside doesnt mean i dont respect the mans accomplishments and standards he set.

as for ERIC you can see my apology in the same thread/post

You have taken this very personally yet i have not mentioned any names my main piont of the double wraps/wrap thickness is not against you or per say or other experienced benders its the new comers comeing into the hobby/sport they now think its the norm as there is no standard and these same people have not prepared the hands or wrists like you dont forget you have been doing grip intensive training for a good/long while before you started bending so your hands have adapted and yes these newbies to bending are starting off with thicker wraps which is sensible as a protection but theres a difference in protection and making the feat easier thenin lies my piont I know that you and some others can bend big steel in small wraps/ironmind wraps etc thats not the issue/piont.

people say i inspire and motivate them to do what use huge wraps i dont think so if thats how i motivate people then i dont want any part of it thankyou i earned my stripes the hard way just like Pat,Big Steve,Eric,Dave & Greg etc and that was through hard work not just slapping on some double wraps and hitting big steel i thought imparting some usefull information like isos etc and hints and tips on how i train and what i do would inspire people to take the correct path but obviously most want the quick solution.

I have never said a bad thing about one of your bends. Not with thicker pads. Not with thinner pads. Not when you bent bare handed. And you do inspire a lot of people. But if you succeed in inspiring a bunch of people to use such thin padding that they end up injuring themselves, when they could have avoided that injury by using thicker pads, that would be a completely negative impact. And who is to decide the "correct" path? Surely it would be the bender themself, and not you. Just because you're world's stronger than most of us doesn't necessarily mean you're the only one qualified to give advice about what should be the standard padding diameter. You are not normal by any stretch of the imagination. Most of us, if bending, or more accurately, attempting to bend some of the crazy stuff you have done, would have 100% chance of injuring ourselves. No guesswork there in my mind. And you can come back and tell me it's all in the mind, but I've always wanted to fly and no amount of positive thoughts will allow me to do that under my own power.

And i aint said a bad thing about you when did i mention your name in this topic/thread Do you feel its better to let people use huge ammounts of padding/double wraps etc and give them the quicker route than let them spend a good ammount of time conditioning/adapting the hands for whats to come.

You and others seam really rilled up over this me trying to set wraps/padding standards for are sport hobby the same hobby that not long ago the DU and Reverse standards were set to 40/45 degrees and a 30 second time limit yet you dont get all flustered up over that but i try and move the standards abit further on as well and you all get your backs up must be me then A

I have never said i am the only one quilified to give advise far from it i have always maintained that i will and have gladly share what i do and find even when others have asked me to do an ebook and DVD so what you saying is that anyone else that whants to change the rules eg:- pat and David or eric they started the rules and modified them and now the DU and Reverse have been modified as well all i take with your blessing its only me and the wrapping you have the issues with then

I was invited over to BBB3 at someone elses very generous expense and was going to try and Motivate and Inspire a few with the way i bend guesse what i wont be bothering now as i dont feel comfortable inspiring people to do things the easy way.

Hercules came to a road that split in two one path lead to the easy untold wealth,pleasure and debortuary the other path lead to the 7 trials and was very hard have a guesse which path the young HERCULES took

Gazza, you started this thread asking people for their opinions on the wraps and padding. And then added that you wanted to "keep it civil." It now sounds like you just wanted us to all agree with you. You know I've never questioned your strength, whether you used thicker pads or thin pads or no pads.

However, I am questioning your judgment in saying that those who choose to use thick pads are choosing the easy route. The easy route is NOT TRAINING! I choose to support those who train. You used to be the same. What happened?

[gazza]

You keep saying Pat bent the insane bastard in small wraps with no chalk and no elastic bands. I think you forgot you did that to the fantastic shiny which is much harder. In addition, you did the shiny barehanded which I believe no one did it. Furthermore, I think steel bending is to test one strength not ones hand toughness. If you want to know how though your hands are go break a rock or grab a HOT rock/coal.

Aliwadhi

Exactly i went after the insane and fantastic shiny bastards in pads/wraps similar in diamentions to what pat used i didnt use double or thicker but similar

since when have i said i have the toughest hands not once whats your piont barehanded bending was/is a particular feat i enjoy doing to test myself i heard others have done it so i thought i would then see how far i could take it whats wrong with that and yes as i have already mentioned in another thread there are tougher ways to explore pain if i wanted to

[gazza]

I see no problem with double wraps. You CAN progress with double wraps. I didn't use double but I have a leather that john Beatty gave me and it's thick. It will help to bend bigger steel.So is it you bending the bigger steel or the wraps I can get the new reds in 5 minutes or so in those wraps. And I am SURE if I did bend the new reds in those wraps in less than 1 minutes, I will destroy the new reds with IM pads (which is very thin and though) in less than 30 seconds. So sometimes thin pads give more advantage. The thicker the pads, the more it absorbs energy/power. Plus thick leather/pads aren't like a pipe.

[gazza]

This thread got lame in a hurry, just bend the steel people. When more people get to the koab level then they can all get together and have their own childish hissy fits about who's bend was better and who's tougher, right now its irrelevant.

Hey Gazza, I bet youll never bend the 1/2"x7", ever. There that should keep him occupied for at least a little while.

how would you like it bent DO,DU or REVERSE or a touch tougher BAREHANDED

[wscorpion]

I am by no means an experienced bender, i've been doing it for approx. 2,5 months now, but i do believe it's not really the thickness but the kind of material used which can be an advantage.

Personally i use an old piece of cloth which you normally use to dry the dishes. On top of that i use a small piece of towel for extra protection. In total it will be approx. 1,5" thick but by far not as safe or puncture resistant as cordura or leather.

The biggest disadvantage of using thicker (1,5") wraps IMO is that you will have to unwrap it partially to finish the crushdown under 2 inches. Still, as long as i don't have any decent material i won't be using thinner wraps because in the short time i've been bending i've already destroyed several towels because the nail went through it, and one time even a piece of my hand which putted me out of bending for about 2 weeks.

Even though i feel bending should be mostly a feature of strength, i can imagine using thick leather which works for extra leverage would be an unfair advantage.

I can imagine that the top benders would prefer a standard since they feel it can be an unfair advantage, but on the other hand, they can use that "advantage" as well.

It's kind of similar as whether or not you should be using chalk for a V-bar lift. It's one hell of a disadvantage if you don't, but would that mean that one would be better / stronger if he chooses not to use it? And would the competitor also be expected not to use chalk because of that?

Edited May 6, 2007 by White Scorpion

[Alawadhi]

I see no problem with double wraps. You CAN progress with double wraps. I didn't use double but I have a leather that john Beatty gave me and it's thick. It will help to bend bigger steel.So is it you bending the bigger steel or the wraps Good question, if I gave my brother the same steel and the same thick wraps he won't be able to do it. So the answer is me, not the wraps. I like to add that the thick wraps help to bend bigger steel because the pain is less. With IM pads the pain will be more thus my mind will go into the pain and less energy in transfered to the steel. With the leather thicker you don't need to worry about pain and all your energy will go in it. Yo I never complained about pain the next bending session I WILL bend the Red nail with IM pads I can get the new reds in 5 minutes or so in those wraps. And I am SURE if I did bend the new reds in those wraps in less than 1 minutes, I will destroy the new reds with IM pads (which is very thin and though) in less than 30 seconds. So sometimes thin pads give more advantage. The thicker the pads, the more it absorbs energy/power. Plus thick leather/pads aren't like a pipe.

[Booyah!!!]

I agree with Alawadhi. Get that Red Nail Young Man

Gazza feel free to compare yourself with anyone you want to. Just try not to down play what other people are bending because YOU don't agree with their wraps. They still deserve every ounce of respect and acknowledgement for their bends, regardless of your opinion. These people have accomplished something Great through Dedication, Sweat, Hardwork and Determination and should Not be down played at all. When they get to your level or at any time, anyone should be able to use whatever padding they think they need to accomplish their goal. It seems to me you are turning, no, you have turned into the person/persons you were upset about just a few months ago. This saddens me Hopefully this discussion will not create more pad-o-phobes.

[EricMilfeld]

I don't have a definitive solution to this argument, but I would like to share some of my own experiences and ideas on the subject.

When I first started bending several years ago I used the most readily accessible padding material I could find. This was strips of cotton hand towels. I would wrap the entire nail in one big piece of towel. I worked up to my first Red with this padding. Then on my second Red the nail's end broke through the cloth and punctured my palm. Around this time two things happened. Atleast one person asserted that I was gaining an unfair advantage by pulling on the towel ends. This seemed a baseless and frivolous accusatiion to me, and I quickly proved it to be so by bending as short as 5 3/4" Reds with Iron Mind pads. And for the record, a single piece of towel actually rips in the middle as you bend with it, thus you're not only applying force enough to bend the nail, but rip the towel as well. This points to the other thing that happened, and that is that I found a replacement for cotton towels in Iron Mind's cordura pads. But I chose to use just small sections of the Iron Mind pads placed under the big piece of towel to prevent any further puncture wounds. And it was with this setup that I certified on the Red, after which, someone contacted Dr. Strossen complaining that I was gaining an unfair padding advantage. I have a good idea who this person was, but I'm unclear as to why he thought I was gaining an unfair advantage. So. at Randy's request, I recertified using only the uncut Iron Mind pads. This bend felt even easier than the previous.

Shortly after all of this drama it became known to me that Teminator was using leather for his bends. I mistakenly assumed this to be thick, hard pieces of leather. Going on my wrong assumption, I questioned Pat as to whether leather was offering him some kind of leverage advantage. He took offense, and I can't say I blame him. I then publicly apologized on the board for my questioning. But still not clear as to what kind of leather he was using, I tried a Red with with some real stiff, thick leather. The Red felt ridiculously easy, but with my second Red using this new wonder material the nail busted clean through the brittle leather, injuring my middle finger. At this point I'm thinking "leather sucks"! So I continued on with using cordura and eventually thicker, longer pieces of ballistic nylon. Though I worked up to short Bastard bars with the nylon, I was acquiring nasty blisters in the process. Also, my forefingers looked like they had been hit by a hammer from the forces of the initial kink with so little padding for protection. This prompted me to start experimenting with other types of leather, which I used to cert on the Huge Bastard. I had finally found something that didn't routinely blister my hands, didn't puncture, and didn't smash my forefingers to a pulp. It took for me 1 1/4" of soft, supple leather to prevent enough of the pain to allow for a mamimal exertion of force. Keep in mind that this padding thickness will naturally vary from individual to individual. I happen to have relatively small hands for my 6'1" frame (7 3/4"), with a pretty small bone structure, and thin skin for a guy. But I do have a decent level of pain tolerance.

All of this leads up to some important questions, some of which Gazza is asking. But right here I need to be very clear about a few things. First of all, I believe Gazza has started this topic with very noble intentions. I also believe that each and every response made thus far has been made with those same noble intentions. The members of the Gripboard make me very proud. I haven't meet a dishonest guy one. Sometimes we bicker and butt heads, but everyone is very direct, real, and honest as far as I can tell. Let's keep this in mind and not take things personally! Despite everything, I've not a single grudge with anyone on this board. And believe me, I can't say as much about society at large. Okay, so here's what I'm thinking:

1) Padding should serve to protect the hands from injury, no more, no less. Padding should offer just enough protection from the forces of exertion that one can apply maximal effort to the bar, without the pain factor limiting one's ability to do so.

2) Padding thickness in excess of what provides sufficient protection from pain and injury that adds extra leverage is a step in the wrong direction. I'd hate to see bending go the way of powerlifting. A case can be made for the safety benefits of belts, for example, but the tight suits and shirts, well... Now if suits are allowed for my competitors I'll wear one, but we have the luxury at the moment, as benders, to make the rules just and reasonable, and insure that bends of today can be meaningfully compared with bends of decades to follow.

Now with this being said, there's still much room for debate and experimentation. I personally have not experimented with thicker leather. I do know that at some point the leather must get so thick that I can't really apply me best leverage, though. Imaging trying to duplicate your best hammer curl on a 3" bar, for example. But at the same time "excess" padding, whatever that may be, will add additional leverage by effectively "lengthening" the bar. And of course the stiffness of the leather is also a factor. So, I would propose that some of the top benders do just that and experiment with all thicknesses of leather. Note at what point in thickness pain no longer becomes a significant factor and if additional thickness beyond that point increases your bending ability. If it does, I think a case could be made for "excess". Now trying to legislate these findings into one cohesive set of rules would be the next challenge. It may very well be found that the rules as currently written already accomodate the would be findings. But some unbiased "research" is needed, in my opinion.

Let's keep a dialogue open on the subject. I've more I could say, but I have to return to my day job now. Anyone want to help us gather some data on the effects of various thicknesses of particular types of leather, with regards to pain level and leverage?

[Bob Lipinski]

Hell, I use what I can now cause I can. I have gotten better leverage with thicker wraps.

If you decide to do something different with the rules Eric, I could go with that.

[boland magyar]

wow this thread is getting heavy.

as a newbie i started bending 60d nails with dish cloths that was about 1 inch thick and i was lucky that my hands was already conditioned so the only pain that i got was on the fingers and not on the palms of my hands (bad form i think).

now i have some leather and when i bend i find that my bending is not as good i carnt feel the nail as much and the diameter is still 1 inch.

boland