Bob Lipinski Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Doubt it. Maybe "obselete" was a touch strong, it's just that now people have calibrated lots of grippers of different brands, we know where the strengths tend to lie. Steve, I could give a ****about using the list for my own personal progression. I am trying to do it as a tool for competitions. I am still training hard to close the same grippers I was training on before I calibrated anything. I like your idea of averages. Have you seen Dave and Greg's original calibration post? They got their hands on quite a few grippers and averaged them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 100% agree for events. Where's Dave and Greg's list?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) It's on their gripperhell blog Edited July 20, 2008 by jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) Ok. I've just been playing with Greg's figures against the wire sizes (needs more work). On the basis of his average numbers I've found a use as someone else predicted. I know what grippers I have closed in competition have calibrated at (using the IM scale) and compared those to the average RGC poundage scale. If they are as accurate as is thought then I should be capable of a MM5 level when the time comes. Cool. Also, baring in mind I'll be eating humble pie when I say this based on Greg's figures there are many gripper wire ratings which are way off. Not in wire size measurement but in where the wire size has them in the list. Unless of course some aren't where they should have been. I'll recheck those later. Edited July 20, 2008 by mobsterone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Steve- Your last sentence there is why I said the RGC made the wire size list obsolete. Granted, again that was a little strong, but if we get enough guys doing enough of the grippers, we might get a better idea. Also, with a little bit of analysis, it would be easy to see which grippers had the biggest variation and which were the biggest crapshoot in trying to get what you want. Of course, that all changes year to year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Wire size really means little to me anymore. Spread, mounting depth, all of that count for a lot. I've closed a Grand Elite with a very narrow spred. Would I be able to close one with a more normal spread, nope. I think the biggest draw of calibrated grippers is being able to find a gripper that is extremely close, but harder, to the gripper that you're able to close right now. Without guessing. Without going by feel. I've closed a lot of grippers and there are still some grippers that I test by hand and later calibrate that totally surprise me by being a higher calibration or lower than what I thought it felt like. Not all of us who calibrate grippers spend all our time just calibrating them and not training. I'd bet the vast majority of us who are calibrating grippers, and those interested in the calibration of grippers, are training their asses off to get stronger on the grippers. We're just paying attention to the little details and are using every little advantage we can. Maybe in 5 years or so we'll ask the question of the top 20 gripper guys who of you does NOT use calibrated grippers to get to your next goal. I predict there won't be many. And some of the guys on top now will be saying hello to a new crop of gripper guys who have used calibrated grippers to get on the list and then dominate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 What is important is that a lot of people, new guys especially, DO use this as a guide to either buying their first grippers or how they should progress. More experienced guys know that wire size doesn't mean anything beyond giving the gripper a WIDE general range. What should be posted, are the RGC calibrations and the spreads of each gripper. We all know that a gripper with a wider spread is tougher than a narrow spread gripper, even when the two calibrate the same. If nothing else, it will be a better guide to buying your next gripper because only the averages will really matter. Average spread, average RGC Cal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpycuban Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I have a CoC #3 and a BBGM that both calibrate at the same weight. Both have the same spread between the handles. Question. Why does the BBGM feel so much harder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 One of the reasons could be that the spring is set deeper (closer to the handles) in the #3. Shorter lever, more force needed to close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incindium Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 (edited) Think about if you graphed the force necessary to close both your grippers. Both take the same amount of total force needed to close. So both graphs would end at the same point. But if your BBSM gets hard early in the graph while the #3 gradually got harder, the BBSM would feel much harder. Also it may just be that the position in the close where the BBSM starts getting hard happens to be a weak spot for you with the grippers. If you choker collared both grippers up to only a cm apart I'll guess they would end up feeling about the same. Edited July 21, 2008 by Incindium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I haven't done much testing on calibrating grippers to parallel. But there have been a few lighter ones that I've calibrated that were within 3 pounds of each other on the final results but were off by almost double that at parallel. I'd have to spend more time calibrating to really figure out how often that happens. The gripper that tested higher at parallel was the one that felt harder to close. Both were really close on the spread too, within 1/16" of each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autolupus Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 One of the reasons could be that the spring is set deeper (closer to the handles) in the #3. Shorter lever, more force needed to close. Then they wouldn't calibrate the same. The one with the shorter moment would calibrate higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incindium Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Ben are you saying that one was twice the other hardness at parallel? What was the difference between parallel and full close for that hard one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Ben are you saying that one was twice the other hardness at parallel? What was the difference between parallel and full close for that hard one? Oh hell, I totally screwed up that sentence. I meant they were off by 3lbs at the final calibration, BUT the weaker gripper was actually 6lbs (5.7 is close enough) higher (heavier) at parallel than the other one. Very strange. The grippers were two #2.5s. One was mine that I traded to Kynaz. It hit 136 I believe. Don't have my calibrations inside with me right now but that's okay. I'll call the one I traded "my" #2.5 for the sake of this thread. The other was a friend's #2.5 that calibrated at 133. My #2.5 hit 120 at parallel. His hit 126 at parallel. I checked and rechecked because it really didn't feel harder than mine at any point (by feel) of the range of motion when I was closing them by hand. I was closing them both TNS most of the time in my experimenting. But when I set them both to parallel and then closed them, it was noticeable that his gripper was harder to close from parallel, even though it calibrated lighter. That was a case where the gripper that most guys would say was the harder gripper (his) would change depending on the set. Because when they were no set closed it was pretty obvious that mine felt harder. Maybe it was a bound up spring, I don't know. I just thought it was interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Gosh Autoplus, you are right. I did not read close enough. Ben, the one gripper that reminds me of the most is that super wide #3 someone was sending around. It was a bear to set, but once it was in position it went like butter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Gosh Autoplus, you are right. I did not read close enough.Ben, the one gripper that reminds me of the most is that super wide #3 someone was sending around. It was a bear to set, but once it was in position it went like butter. Soilworker's #3. I remember it too. Very wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlstrass Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 ...I think the biggest draw of calibrated grippers is being able to find a gripper that is extremely close, but harder, to the gripper that you're able to close right now. Without guessing....... I'd bet the vast majority of us who are calibrating grippers, and those interested in the calibration of grippers, are training their asses off to get stronger on the grippers. We're just paying attention to the little details and are using every little advantage we can. Maybe in 5 years or so we'll ask the question of the top 20 gripper guys who of you does NOT use calibrated grippers to get to your next goal. I predict there won't be many. And some of the guys on top now will be saying hello to a new crop of gripper guys who have used calibrated grippers to get on the list and then dominate it. I agree 100%. I built one to know what MY grippers rated at, so I could slowly increment up to the #3. I also think it's VERY helpful when filing a gripper to know how much harder it has become. Of course it will still take a ton of hard work and dedication, but this seems to be another tool that might help us get there a little faster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teemu I Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 (edited) ...I think the biggest draw of calibrated grippers is being able to find a gripper that is extremely close, but harder, to the gripper that you're able to close right now. Without guessing....... I'd bet the vast majority of us who are calibrating grippers, and those interested in the calibration of grippers, are training their asses off to get stronger on the grippers. We're just paying attention to the little details and are using every little advantage we can. Maybe in 5 years or so we'll ask the question of the top 20 gripper guys who of you does NOT use calibrated grippers to get to your next goal. I predict there won't be many. And some of the guys on top now will be saying hello to a new crop of gripper guys who have used calibrated grippers to get on the list and then dominate it. I agree 100%. I built one to know what MY grippers rated at, so I could slowly increment up to the #3. I also think it's VERY helpful when filing a gripper to know how much harder it has become. Of course it will still take a ton of hard work and dedication, but this seems to be another tool that might help us get there a little faster... I also fully agree with all this. It's another helpful thing towards bigger gripper closes, so why not take an advantage of it.Personally I haven't calibrated a single gripper, but have gotten all my grippers up from the #3's measured and the only reason for me to do so is that it has helped my gripper training and will do so in the future as well. It is very practical knowledge, numbers put into good use. It doesn't take anything away from the needed hard work, on the contrary, let's say your hard work can be tuned better to suit your strength level. Edited July 23, 2008 by Teemu I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg_uk Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 i think it should be a helpful tool, im looking at getting mine calibrated at some point, as i must have 8-10 grippers between a 2.5 and 3.5, so it would be helpful to know what order to attempt them at. You can get an idea what they rate at, but if you cant close them then you dont know what they rate at the close, only the sweep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teemu I Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 You can get an idea what they rate at, but if you cant close them then you dont know what they rate at the close, only the sweep.Correct. You might get two totally different strength grippers even down to 1 mm from closing and think they are equal. In reality you might choose to train on the harder of the two while it might be better to use the other. You can't estimate the difficulty of the gripper that well if you can't fully close it. You can't have any idea how much that last little bit might take. Missing two different grippers by same distance doesn't mean they are equal, they might be pretty far from that. It has happened to me. Making gains on advanced level is where the calibration data is the most useful, as mere 1 lbs difference might feel huge to the hand. So this is where picking a suitable strength gripper as your working gripper makes a huge difference and helps your training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 One thing Teemu, and this is where we might disagree- Due to the inherent inaccuracy of the calibration method, I think there is a certain tolerance where actually squeezing the gripper is more accurate than calibration- Given someone very experienced with grippers, in which you more than qualify. I was almost disillusioned about calibration one day- I went back and forth with 3-4 grippers, getting +/- 1 pound or so, and really not being confident with my results. Like I have mentioned before, certain factors- knurling, spread, sweep softness among them- make judging the difficulty of grippers that have a close RGC measurement inaccurate, especially given the inaccuracy of the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrilius Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Where would the Bone Crusher 400 lie at in the list? Or, better asked, how does BC400 compare with CoC's? 2.5 or 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autolupus Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Where would the Bone Crusher 400 lie at in the list? Or, better asked, how does BC400 compare with CoC's? 2.5 or 3? The BC400 would be in the same place as the HG400, for BC read HG, job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrilius Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Where would the Bone Crusher 400 lie at in the list? Or, better asked, how does BC400 compare with CoC's? 2.5 or 3? The BC400 would be in the same place as the HG400, for BC read HG, job done. Thank you Autolupus. Now that I know I can close the HG / BC400 already, I should pick up the BC500 and give it a try, after some weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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