Ironmind News.

[DoDa]

please do not take this the wrong way but you should not mention others in your complaints to ironmind. The comment about Heath makes it sound like he has been complaining, which I do not believe is the case.

Not flaming anyone just my opinion, I am sure that your intentions were pure.

Yeah. Never thought of that. Good point. Appreciate the input.

[cjcocn]

Wannagrip

I think what gamidon meant was that the letter from DoDa implies that Heath was complaining to [DoDa] about the rule change.

The concern is that Heath may in some way suffer for DoDa's comments.

I'll make up two possible consequences here .....

Reputation-wise: "That Heath guy was complaining because he can't close a #4 for real."

Relationship-wise: Some (NOT ME!!!) may think less of Heath because the letter implies that he is a complainer.

etc.

NOTE: I do not know Heath and respect his strength, so these are only examples and are only put forth to help clarify gamidon's points. Also, I am sure that gamidon will provide his own clarification, but I am quite positive that I know where he is coming from (of course, I do not know him either so maybe I should just shut up and quit while I am ahead!).

CJ

[Bill Piche]

Wannagrip

I think what gamidon meant was that the letter from DoDa implies that Heath was complaining to [DoDa] about the rule change.

The concern is that Heath may in some way suffer for DoDa's comments.

I'll make up two possible consequences here .....

Reputation-wise: "That Heath guy was complaining because he can't close a #4 for real."

Relationship-wise: Some (NOT ME!!!) may think less of Heath because the letter implies that he is a complainer.

etc.

NOTE: I do not know Heath and respect his strength, so these are only examples and are only put forth to help clarify gamidon's points. Also, I am sure that gamidon will provide his own clarification, but I am quite positive that I know where he is coming from (of course, I do not know him either so maybe I should just shut up and quit while I am ahead!).

CJ

Frankly, my guess is Heath couldn't give a rat's ass what Randy thinks.

Second, anyone who knows Heath knows he's not one to complain about ANYTHING.

But, I see the point if someone didn't know the above.

[Bill Piche]

1stCOC, Richard Sorin, sent this to me to post for ease of getting it on the board quickly:

I was contacted shortly after 9am in the morning on the day the news

came out by Mr. Strossen. He had already made up his mind on this new

rule and as we spoke he said it was being entered on his site. He did

however ask for my feelings on his decision. I stated that Randy and his

stewardship in the development and promotion of the #3 product and

legend has brought the subject of grip strength to a wonderful level I

never thought possible. We should all thank Mr. Strossen for that no

matter how we feel on the rule subject. I personally feel about the

gripper the same as lifting a weight in competition. Do it or dont,man

against the iron. Because I am tall or short, heavy or light the bar

STILL starts from the floor at the same position. Some people are better

suited than others to the task but if lifting or gripping is what YOU

decide to do then get with it or find another sport where your physical

attributes may better work for you. I never heard of the word "set" when

I was becoming the first man to shut the #3 and when asked about the

set rule of one inch I understood that rule was twofold,one to give a

better chance for smaller handed people and the other to regulate the

depth even large handed individuals were starting at. I do feel that the

deep set rule was by some abused and sometimes changed the closing of

the gripper into a half rep scenario. I plainly stated to Mr. Strossen I

have no ethical problem with his new credit card rule and I will do my

best if that is how it is to be BUT, I did see a real problem with the

logistics of the new rule. I mentioned that Warren Tetting always felt a

no set close was the way to go and while being hard it was the pure man

VS Iron senerio. Wether I can do this or not I do agree. Rules should be

simple and outside involvement of any type should be kept to a minimum.

I did suggest that ALL the #3 closers should be honored for the

universal fact they DID close the # 3 under the conditions set forth of

the day but, If a new rule or style was now implemented all the past

CoC's would be given the opportunity to upgrade their status by

recertification under the new rules and add perhaps an asterisk by their

name on the CoC honor roll. In closing ,whatever happens remember it is

all about the presonal challenge gripping has brougnt us and the many

fine friends and relationships it has kindled...let us ALL be glad for

that. Richard Sorin

[DoDa]

Wannagrip

I think what gamidon meant was that the letter from DoDa implies that Heath was complaining to [DoDa] about the rule change.

The concern is that Heath may in some way suffer for DoDa's comments.

I'll make up two possible consequences here .....

Reputation-wise: "That Heath guy was complaining because he can't close a #4 for real."

Relationship-wise: Some (NOT ME!!!) may think less of Heath because the letter implies that he is a complainer.

etc.

NOTE:  I do not know Heath and respect his strength, so these are only examples and are only put forth to help clarify gamidon's points.  Also, I am sure that gamidon will provide his own clarification, but I am quite positive that I know where he is coming from (of course, I do not know him either so maybe I should just shut up and quit while I am ahead!).

 

CJ

Just to clarify things. I never talked to Heath on this subject and therefore my comment should no way be inferred that Heath was complaining to me!

[Rob Vigeant]

Some people are better

suited than others to the task but if lifting or gripping is what YOU

decide to do then get with it or find another sport where your physical

attributes may better work for you.

So in weight lifting competition they could change the full deadlift rule to ...In a room with a 5' 7'' ceiling to full lockout.... After years of training with NO ceiling and excelling in the deadlift that wouldn't bother you.... and if it did may be you should.... "get with it or find another sport where your physical attributes may better work for you"?

[nils]

A bit odd analogy to the lifting weights in competition.

In powerlifting everyone lifts according to the their height and the length of their limbs.

Short guys lift a short distance.

Same in Olympic lifts.

So I guess the 1st coc means strongman lifting where everyone lifts the same distance in some of the events,those events are also notoriously good for the long guys.

But in the iron games that is the exception, not the rule!

Nils

[Rob Vigeant]

A bit odd analogy to the lifting weights in competition.

In powerlifting everyone lifts according to the their height and the length of their limbs.

Short guys lift a short distance.

Same in Olympic lifts.

So I guess the 1st coc means strongman lifting where everyone lifts the same distance in some of the events,those events are also notoriously good for the long guys.

But in the iron games that is the exception, not the rule!

Nils

My point was he's taller than 5' 7'' and it would be ALMOST impossible

to stand up to full lockout.....He could train more so he was strong enough to put his head through the ceiling.

[CMunger]

I think Sorin makes perfect sense to me. The logistics of the change are crap, and that's what the issue is, not hand size. That's just something that god dealt us non-large handed folk. The gripe we have with Ironmind is that we missed the boat, and we all know people who got seats on the boat doing the same thing that now isn't good enough to get us on it. So, flock it. Randy isn't gonna change his mind, and while I was irritated for a day or so, I don't really give a rat's ass about it anymore. I'm not gonna give him power over my happiness. As I've said, if I wake up one morning and find I can no set a #3, I'd probably look into certifying w/ IM. But I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it, and I'm certainly not gonna waste my time arguing with Randy about it when I could be watching trees in case one falls down.

[Rick Browne]

If Stefan Straub posts a vid of his close of a #3 by Strossen's new rule,

like he said he would with his 7" hands, then the squabble can cease.

It signifies that it can be accomplished

[Bill Piche]

If Stefan Straub posts a vid of his close of a #3 by Strossen's new rule,

like he said he would with his 7" hands, then the squabble can cease.

It signifies that it can be accomplished

I am sure it's possible. But, his hand is NOT 7" either. Who knows what the heck it is at this point.

I've seen a few different measurements now.

[Bill Piche]

If Stefan Straub posts a vid of his close of a #3 by Strossen's new rule,

like he said he would with his 7" hands, then the squabble can cease.

It signifies that it can be accomplished

I am sure it's possible. But, his hand is NOT 7" either. Who knows what the heck it is at this point.

Everyone has AVERAGE or small hands.

Just like everyone has bodyfat less than 15%.

[Patrik_F]

It doesn't matter if it's "possible" or not for me. What matters is that I don't like no setting grippers, therefore I won't train for it and no way in hell certify with it. It is as simple as that. The new rule hasn't pissed me off even a bit, I don't really care what the rules are anymore, I make my own rules, muhahaha

[mobsterone]

Ref Sorins comment regarding deadlifts - the bar is the same distance from the floor.

[nils]

If Stefan Straub posts a vid of his close of a #3 by Strossen's new rule,

like he said he would with his 7" hands, then the squabble can cease.

It signifies that it can be accomplished

I believe that it would just intensify the squabble.

there are two issues here.

1: That ironmind doesn't handle the change very well. Which is bad, but maybe not so important in the long run.

2: Setting a precedent for gripping rules. Which is the important thing.

Now it has as far as I know became the general rule in certifications and competitions that when a set is allowed it is allowed to be pretty deep. Roughly 1 inch max.

Ironmind is trying to change that and due to their great impact that might also effect the sport rules which in the long run is what really matters. I don't care a lot about some certificate somewhere but if the developing sport will turn into a big hand sport then I believe it is a great loss.

Nils

[nils]

Ref Sorins comment regarding deadlifts - the bar is the same distance from the floor.

Yes, the floor point where everyone can reach it is the same for everyone. Same as the the closed gripper is the same for everyone.

But the range is different. The up point, where the length of the person matters is different for everyone. To make his logic functional everyone would need to lift the bar the same distance, maybe to the hip for long people and a half way clean for the really short guys!

Nils

[OldGuy]

This whole situation is getting massively overblown. If you don't like it then focus on the MMG cert.

Exactly

[apdwler]

Well, I feel like an idiot! I have fairly small hands, around 7 1/2, but I have never set a gripper very deep. I didn't know it was allowed. I never really practiced that way until I made a choker. I really didn't mess with it, because I couldn't see the point. A deep set would probably help, since my small finger was always out of it until partial squeeze. Guess I should have bout that kata? book!

[Bill Piche]

Out of curiousity, I went back and viewed Joe Kinney's #4 close.

It's basically a:

No set

Super slow

#4 grind

He just is careful about where it's placed in his hand rather than wriggle it around in the same hand. He uses his left hand to place it or set it just right in the hand.

So, now looking back this puts Joe WAY ahead of anyone. None of the current other 4 closers are anywhere near him yet.

[FbaLLPlaya_53]

Where can I view Kinney's video Wanna?

[Bill Piche]

Where can I view Kinney's video Wanna?

You can purchase it from Joe.

It's worth the money just to see the #4 close.

I just added it to the frequently asked questions:

http://www.cyberpump.com/gripboard/index.p...st=0#entry55556

Edited March 14, 2004 by Wannagrip

[2strong]

If someone is wondering how a no set looks like with a 7" hand... take a look here : http://home.nktv.no/~dagroye/grip/noset.avi

I doubt I can do that to a #3 anytime soon !

[Bill Piche]

If someone is wondering how a no set looks like with a 7" hand... take a look here : http://home.nktv.no/~dagroye/grip/noset.avi

I doubt I can do that to a #3 anytime soon ! 

This brings up a question. Notice the wriggling into what I would call a set position. So, the pinky can get wrapped. I consider a no-set, no wriggling. Yet again, this 7 inch hand stuff needs to be shown as measured (someone just saying it's 7 inches). It also doesn't show what the starting distance is between the handle. That is, how wide the gripper is.

Kinney simply "placed" the gripper in his hand. No wriggling.

Nice job though on this close regardless!

[Rick Browne]

This brings up a question. Notice the wriggling into what I would call a set position. So, the pinky can get wrapped. I consider a no-set, no wriggling. Yet again, this 7 inch hand stuff needs to be shown as measured (someone just saying it's 7 inches). It also doesn't show what the starting distance is between the handle. That is, how wide the gripper is.

Kinney simply "placed" the gripper in his hand. No wriggling.

Nice job though on this close regardless!

Wriggling or not, The question for me is, does this qualify for the new

Strossen credit card close? I think it would

[Bill Piche]

This brings up a question. Notice the wriggling into what I would call a set position. So, the pinky can get wrapped. I consider a no-set, no wriggling. Yet again, this 7 inch hand stuff needs to be shown as measured (someone just saying it's 7 inches). It also doesn't show what the starting distance is between the handle. That is, how wide the gripper is.

Kinney simply "placed" the gripper in his hand. No wriggling.

Nice job though on this close regardless!

Wriggling or not, The question for me is, does this qualify for the new

Strossen credit card close? I think it would

Geez, I would hope so!