Ironmind News.

[nils]

I have had some quite civil letter exchanges with Randy.

He realizes that this might mean a split for the gripper world between the traditional more or less no set way of closing grippers and the new sport oriented deep set closes in a similar way to how climbing has split between traditional and sport climbing (his example) he realize that this will tick some people off that likes the new sets but feel that ironmind should try to lead the traditional way in the spirit of how grippers was used previously and how he thinks that they are best used. A valid argument I think. Even though I disagree.

As to grip legends.He has gotten suggestions from Richard Sorin about how the old and new certification list/people could be handled. So you probably don't need to speculate about Kinney and Brookfield. Sorin might very well qualify as a legend. He is in my book!

But I don't think that you should blame Sorin for the rule change itself!

Nils

[Cunny]

This is the reply I got from Ironmind

Graeme,

Many thanks for writing and don't worry, we don't plan to start disappointing you now.

I just heard that some people might think we mean the long edge of a credit card, but we mean the side that is about 2 inches, so if you put your favorite gripper in your hand and squeeze it down to this range, you can prove to yourself that even a person with somewhat smaller than average hands will have no trouble getting his pinky on the handle. I know a lot of guys are concerned about this hand size issue, quite rightly, but don't worry, the last thing we would do is something that required you to have hands like Phil Pfister to succeed. Give this a bit of time, please, and I think you'll find that this is a natural way to close these grippers, which is why even if this appears to be radical, it's actually the exact way a lot of people have always closed these grippers.

Many thanks for taking the time to write and promise me, please, that you'll give this a try instead of selling yourself short.

All the best with your training.

Randy

Randall J. Strossen, Ph.D.

So really I have not closed my #2 because I cannot close it without a deep set

[Cunny]

My Reply

Randy

I am very disappointed.

What you are saying that my #2 close is now not a close under the new rules.

This to me is another blow to the smaller guy who cannot compete with the bigger guy.

Looking in your catalogue that comes each year I see pages and pages of Big Guy's and when I see peolpe like the Holle Brothers featured it inspires me that maybe some day I can reach the same level but how can I be sure that they could close a #3 under the new rules I think your list should be reset to zero apart from the very first year and lets see who can close without the set I would say you would cut the number down by half but I know this would never be done because it would really annoy some of your customers.

No doubt If I trained hard with all my efforts put into closing a # 3 I would eventually get there but how do I know that another rule may be introduced when I am closing in on that goal?

This type of attitude of changing rules to stop the list getting to big is very off putting of having a # 3 close as a goal,if this was the reason fior the change why not just standardise the grippers so they are all the same strength and make it only possible to certify on The New Gripper or just add a # 5 gripper.

Graeme

[Griparn]

This new rule is not fair. I could live with this new rule if it was the same conditions for everyone. I think Randy should make a new list fot this or start all over again.

[The Mac]

It is amazing what you miss sometimes on this board when you are away for even a day....

FWIW, I think I have made it reasonably clear over the years that I have only a so-so opinion of Ironmind as a company, at least as it relates to their range of grippers - their quality control has been very poor.

Now, when it comes to this rule change - I am in favour of the new rule. I have just spent half an hour reading - well, not to put too bad a name to it, but people just WHINING about it. Grippers (as I understand) are meant to be closed with one hand only - not two - and, to be honest, the momentum-giving explosive sets I have seen are starting to get ridiculous. As for you at the back with the small hands?? Be happy you can even use the other hand to set the gripper at all.

Now, before this my post goes south, I do believe that Heath and Benny were both handed a raw deal by Strossen by some of the seeming "on-the-spot rule changes that seemed to be going on at NOS. But this rule change has been posted on the site and (hopefully) will be adhered to. As for the CHANGING of the rules midstream, well, how long has the certfication process been running?? About ten years now, and it seems faintly RIDICULOUS that any sport or event cannot change it's rules to adapt to changing "techniques" (ie. the explosive set) and what-have-you. Look back at any sport - Football, Basketball etc and over the years the rules have changed dozens of times for one reason or the other - if anything, it's a sign of a dynamic participation.

So, what will happen now?? FWIW, I believe Ironmind's rule change will be good for the MMG series, which I am pleased with because at least the MMG are consistent, which as I've stated is my major problem with Ironmind Grippers. And as for the Ironmind Grippers? I would echo Mobsterone and say that if you annoyed by this rule then train harder and use that certificate your wipe your ass - if that is what floats your boat.

[Patrik_F]

With my 7 3/4" hands I am completely out of groove with this new rule, I can't imagine what it is like if your hands are even smaller. Like everybody says, I would not have had a problem with the rule if it had been there from the start. Changing it now is lame. I would not have focused as much as I have on grippers if I knew this was going to happen. I am not mad or angry at Randy. I might have been if I was about to certify though.

[Patrik_F]

This new rule is a VERY drastic change for most people, especially for people with smaller hands. It is not a small adjustment of the rules like some seem to believe, including Randy maybe?

Guys who were closing the #3 with the old rules must now be satisfied with barely closing the #2. As for the #4...

[Rob Vigeant]

One or two of

So you must be close to the #4 still with the new rule right?

Now there's a question! Let me see how I get on at the Iron Grip. If I ain't going to the European then I'll focus on the CoC 4.

What i'm saying is you were close to the #4

before the rule how about now?

No.

Thank you.

[Tom Black]

Randy said in one of the letters above:

“you can prove to yourself that even a person with somewhat smaller than average hands will have no trouble getting his pinky on the handle. I know a lot of guys are concerned about this hand size issue, quite rightly, but don't worry, the last thing we would do is something that required you to have hands like Phil Pfister to succeed”

I have 7.25” hands (average to below average) and I cannot get my pinky on the handle with the credit card method. This statement by Randy has no basis in fact, it is simply not true.

Patrik B said: “With my 7 3/4" hands I am completely out of groove with this new rule” See that, even a 7 3/4" hands are out of the groove, perhaps Randy believes that “somewhat smaller than average hands” refers to someone with 8” hands.

Randy said:

“so if you put your favorite gripper in your hand and squeeze it down to this range, you can prove to yourself that even a person with somewhat smaller than average hands will have no trouble getting his pinky on the handle.”

My favorite gripper is not an Ironmind! (Maybe that’s the real issue).

[Rob Vigeant]

I would bet money Joe Kinney had nothing to do with this rule.

Just to make it clear i didn't think it was Joe Kinney.

without mentioning names Richard Sorin

[Rick Walker]

Anyone who is holding their breath awaiting randy to change the rule back should sign their will.

He is not going to go back. That would make him look like a bigger idiot.

Regardless, my name wil be removed from his list Monday and my refund for (edited to save space) will be sent Monday as well.I am not asking anyone else to do this. I am doing it because I cant look at myself in the mirror knowing there are guys out there stronger than me who will never get on the list without setting the gripper.

Strossen has no clue. He doesnt know what it is like to be in the trenches, day in and day out. Your hands cracked and bleeding, tendons aching, and fingers so sore you cant make a fist for 2 days. He has never closed a #3 or lifted a Blob. Never bent any steel. He is an outsider looking in. I cannot except his fate on the #3 list due to some hunch he had. When he has experienced the pain I have experienced, or Pat, Heath, or wood for that matter, then he can explain things to me. Until then, I have no respect for him or his company.

Wannagrip-please remove "Certified Captain of Crush" from my name on the board. Leave it with what matters, "GrpBoard Mash Monster"

Rick Walker

[Bill Piche]

All I can say is wow! So many posts. I did not know that the grip world was so conservative! In sifting through all 12 pages of this stuff I just want to say a few things. Someone said that with this credit card stuff that you would be doing 90% of the close. No! A credit card is about 2 inches? So a gripper with a 3 inch spread, you still have an inch to play around with... I am not quite sure if this is enough for the smaller handed individual. Anyway with this new rule 66% of the close is at your disposal. It would not be surprising if Kinney had any input in this rule... may I remind you of his domination of the 4. Even though Randal is probably getting many hate mails I find it good that he gets back to some of you guys! Most likely the rule will not go away so don't complain... train! Yes I understand that the smaller handed individual will find it harder... how about focusing your hatred on a gripper attempt? As well think how mighty impressive it will be when you smaller handed people start closing the #3 in this way! When you close a gripper in a no set, 2 inch etc. style you can be proud to say that you have dominated that gripper.

I think you should have paid a bit more attention in math class. It's about 2 1/8 for a credit ard. There's two sides. Most grippers are not on the high side of 3 inches. PLUS, there are TWO sides.

[Bill Piche]

Randy said in one of the letters above:

“you can prove to yourself that even a person with somewhat smaller than average hands will have no trouble getting his pinky on the handle. I know a lot of guys are concerned about this hand size issue, quite rightly, but don't worry, the last thing we would do is something that required you to have hands like Phil Pfister to succeed”

The only way I can see to do this is use a few fingers first and then bring in the pinky. John Wood and I discussed this very thing in chat.

Clearly a disadvantage for the smaller handed person IMO.

[Darco]

Since every one has taken the time to view this post 5000 or so times I hope every one has taken a few minutes to e-mail Doc Strossen with there discontent. I Will no longer be purchasing any Iron Mind products either.

[ianders1]

I think you should have paid a bit more attention in math class. It's about 2 1/8 for a credit ard. There's two sides. Most grippers are not on the high side of 3 inches. PLUS, there are TWO sides.

LOL!!!!

Ok, for the record: assuming 3" spread, 2 1/8" card:

2.125/3 =70.83%

So yes, it's more than 90%, but not as much as 66%, so we're both wrong

My gripper must be set a little narrower, though, as it seemed to be closer to 1/2" than 1"

And Wanna, you're absolutely right - I didn't pay much attention in Math class

[Tom Page]

Anyone who is holding their breath awaiting randy to change the rule back should sign their will.

He is not going to go back. That would make him look like a bigger idiot.

Regardless, my name wil be removed from his list Monday and my refund for (edited to save space) will be sent Monday as well.I am not asking anyone else to do this. I am doing it because I cant look at myself in the mirror knowing there are guys out there stronger than me who will never get on the list without setting the gripper.

Strossen has no clue. He doesnt know what it is like to be in the trenches, day in and day out. Your hands cracked and bleeding, tendons aching, and fingers so sore you cant make a fist for 2 days. He has never closed a #3 or lifted a Blob. Never bent any steel. He is an outsider looking in. I cannot except his fate on the #3 list due to some hunch he had. When he has experienced the pain I have experienced, or Pat, Heath, or wood for that matter, then he can explain things to me. Until then, I have no respect for him or his company.

Wannagrip-please remove "Certified Captain of Crush" from my name on the board. Leave it with what matters, "GrpBoard Mash Monster"

Rick Walker

I always thought you were a class act Rick. Unwavering integrity.

Wow did I miss out on this thread yesterday. I have been finally closing the #3 again after my injury and was looking forward to getting certified soon. That won't be happening. So I am looking forward to certifying as a Mash Monster with the M0 first and then go from there. The people and the respect I have for this Grip Board is all I care about any way. Strossen can KMA.

[Bill Piche]

I think you should have paid a bit more attention in math class.  It's about 2 1/8 for a credit ard.  There's two sides. Most grippers are not on the high side of 3 inches. PLUS, there are TWO sides. 

LOL!!!!

Ok, for the record: assuming 3" spread, 2 1/8" card:

2.125/3 =70.83%

So yes, it's more than 90%, but not as much as 66%, so we're both wrong

My gripper must be set a little narrower, though, as it seemed to be closer to 1/2" than 1"

And Wanna, you're absolutely right - I didn't pay much attention in Math class

If after putting the cc in between the handles you have 1 inch left. Well, there are two sides to divide this distance. 1"/2 sides = 1/2" on each side of the credit card.

[gamidon]

new rule is in effect on the ironmind website

Edited March 13, 2004 by gamidon

[CMunger]

I'd like to state a little something for the record regarding Sorin's alleged involvment, and that's that as I see the scenario, I probably would have given Randy similar input if he called me on the phone.

"Chris Munger, I really respect you, your strength, your ballroom dance abilities... What do you think I should do? I'm getting 30 new #3 certifications a month!"

"Well Randy, I appreciate that, and you are a fine dancer as well. But as far as the grippers go, I really don't know what you can do short of changing the rules to a wide/no-set and starting the list over."

"Thanks for your input Chris, and best of luck with the Nobel Prize judging this summer. *hangs up phone* 'Well he's right. I don't want to wipe the list clean, though. I'll just change the rules.'

Bottom line, don't blame Sorin, or anyone else who may have been consulted. It's Randy's implementation that chews.

One more thing to mull over that I was talking about in teh Chat with a few people. I think how a certified person feels about the rule change is all dependent upon how they view the certification.

Is it a prize for completing a feat at a certain point in time? Or is it a landmark that places you in the ranks of of a grip strength elite who have all achieved the same feat?

For the former, it's just like winning a spelling bee. Doesn't matter how hard the words are nowadays, they just passed the test that day with those words. For the latter, I think it's taken much more personally, ala Rick Walker. Just a bit of food for thought to help people see the different sides.

[MIKE HALEY RILEY CLOE]

Guys just for the record I agreed with Rob, I thought it might be Richard Sorin. The man is a LEGEND, I do not and would not blame him for any rule change, it is Dr. Strossens company (so he can do what he wants), although losing a lot of your customer base does not make much sense! I have 7.75 inch hands and am unable to get my pinkie around the gripper with the rule change, it actually feels better to try no set closes with 3 fingers. Although I had to step back a gripper or two! I am beyond pissed off right now, I had been hoping to get cert. before summer. I hope we get the MMG0 cert. set up I NEED GOALS! By the way has this thread set any records? Mike

[Bearcat 74]

From what little I messed with the new rule yesterday it's much easier to set the gripper and open it back up to the card and then bring it back to close. Trying to bring it to the card and then on down in motion really sucks.

[MIKE HALEY RILEY CLOE]

My thoughts exactly Heath. How long must we pause before getting the "Go signal" to close the gripper though? I cant imagine doing that with a #4! Mike

[Matt Van Weele]

I think I'm switching to no set on everything from now on. It's a better way of doing it for strength.

[Tom Black]

I think I'm switching to no set on everything from now on. It's a better way of doing it for strength.

Actually, I've always thought that doing a deep set, hold and a negative has done more to increase my strength and others. I think that no set should be practiced too, but I would never stop doing the deep set as well.

[RSW]

Would changing the #3 gripper have been preferable? Maybe it as hard as MM2, but allowing a set?

This would certainly make Ironmind more money, since everyone would need a new gripper to certify on. I am afraid that the gripboard did in the old #3 certification with KTA etc. There is no way Ironmind was going to allow 50+ people a year to certify on the #3. They would have had to drop #3 certs unless changes were made.

I do think that Strossen and the "many name brand grip guys" feel that a set should not be used to make the close easier. He also doesn't think it would be fair to those that are already certified to start the list over again.

Robert