Jared P Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Disclaimer: This thread has nothing to do with the scale thread. This thread only relates to grippers. I am posting this video with permission from Tiziano, as well as the GripBoard moderation team. After this post, I no longer hold a position or opinion on this issue. I no longer care whether or not these gripper feats are legitimate or not. I've already spent enough time and energy on the matter, and any verification, witnesses, or lack thereof from here on out will have to be done by Tiziano himself, if he so desires. I will no longer be defending him, nor acting as a proxy for his communication, nor am I interested in discussing the topic any further - unless there is very good reason to do so. My only interest in this matter was getting to the truth, and possibly finding out if the cheating methods that people accuse him of are either possible or realistic. I still haven't seen any evidence of what a 'modified gripper' even is, from anyone, nor what it can supposedly do - for all intents and purposes, until someone experiments with this themselves and shows the results, a 'modified gripper' may as well be Bigfoot or a unicorn. I feel like someone here will figure out how to do this at some point though, especially if the accusations are true. The 3.5 certification video bothers me the most, because it looks legitimate. The second angle video below only seems to further bolster this point, at least to me. It looks like a real, untampered with, unmodified gripper that he is closing in the video, as best and honestly as I can tell. The clock being perfectly on time is another factor that is hard to avoid. What to do with this information, in light of the separate scale incident and in light of what we know about bodyweight and strength and gripper progress, I do not know. I don't harbor any negative feelings towards anyone here, and I apologize if any of my comments have been rude or arrogant. I don't know what the truth is, and I will not pretend to know. I'll leave that up to everyone else to figure out, but mostly Tiziano himself. The truth will come out in the end. Thanks, Jared Better quality download link: https://we.tl/t-uEGw2d46uG 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Constructive/observational discussion only! No memes and no personal jabs! If you want to talk about how someone should be removed from a certification list, take it up with the custodian of those records and do not discuss it here on GripBoard! 5 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) One thing that I observe when watching this video (and the other one) is how EASY it looks for him to rep the 3.5 from a credit card set with both hands. Sorry, but it doesn't even look that easy for CARL when he closes a 3.5, and Tiziano doesn't have Carl's musculature, so it should look HARDER for him to do this with his smaller muscles, not easier. There is something wrong with the physics of this. The effort that should have to be apparent is not apparent. It looks just as unrealistic as it would if a 140-pound guy bench pressed what he reported to be 700 pounds, and it looked easier for him than it does for Eddie Hall. Sorry, but with the unlikelihood of this being physically possible, coupled with the demonstrated scale fraud that isn't the issue here so I won't belabor it, I would bet everything I have that this is a fraud as well. I saw what others said about the logical fallacy of probability -- but we don't make real world credibility judgments on logic alone. We also use probability. When someone says something improbable and you think it might be a lie, but suspend your disbelief, and then they demonstrably lie about other things, it is not unreasonable to infer that the person was lying about the first improbable thing. No, it is not logically compelled--but it is the conclusion where I am putting my money. Fraud. No, I do not know where the fraud took place - whether it be via gripper tampering, video editing, or even some sort of an "inside job" (an accomplice). I am not suggesting it is anything in particular, just that it is something. I hope folks who have time and skills will produce a similar fake so that we can see how it might have been done. That still won't prove it LOGICALLY or BEYOND ALL POSSIBLE DOUBT. But I am already convinced and don't need more than the sheer improbability and the demonstrated fraud. For those of you who DO require more, perhaps this thread and some future efforts will supply it. Edited February 7 by Vinnie 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashmonster268 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I would like to know the background of the person running the other view's camera. Because they would have to be in on it, if it was a con. I'm with Vinnie. It just doesn't "look" right to me. The ease with which he closes it for multiple reps...on both hands. Luckily I'm not heavily invested in him being the real deal or a scam artist. But it is interesting to me either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martincerven Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Jared P said: Disclaimer: This thread has nothing to do with the scale thread. This thread only relates to grippers. I am posting this video with permission from Tiziano, as well as the GripBoard moderation team. After this post, I no longer hold a position or opinion on this issue. I no longer care whether or not these gripper feats are legitimate or not. I've already spent enough time and energy on the matter, and any verification, witnesses, or lack thereof from here on out will have to be done by Tiziano himself, if he so desires. I will no longer be defending him, nor acting as a proxy for his communication, nor am I interested in discussing the topic any further - unless there is very good reason to do so. My only interest in this matter was getting to the truth, and possibly finding out if the cheating methods that people accuse him of are either possible or realistic. I still haven't seen any evidence of what a 'modified gripper' even is, from anyone, nor what it can supposedly do - for all intents and purposes, until someone experiments with this themselves and shows the results, a 'modified gripper' may as well be Bigfoot or a unicorn. I feel like someone here will figure out how to do this at some point though, especially if the accusations are true. The 3.5 certification video bothers me the most, because it looks legitimate. The second angle video below only seems to further bolster this point, at least to me. It looks like a real, untampered with, unmodified gripper that he is closing in the video, as best and honestly as I can tell. The clock being perfectly on time is another factor that is hard to avoid. What to do with this information, in light of the separate scale incident and in light of what we know about bodyweight and strength and gripper progress, I do not know. I don't harbor any negative feelings towards anyone here, and I apologize if any of my comments have been rude or arrogant. I don't know what the truth is, and I will not pretend to know. I'll leave that up to everyone else to figure out, but mostly Tiziano himself. The truth will come out in the end. Thanks, Jared Better quality download link: https://we.tl/t-uEGw2d46uG Can you get first video in original quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Did he reach out to you, or you to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsMcHanderson Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Vinnie said: I saw what others said about the logical fallacy of probability -- but we don't make real world credibility judgments on logic alone. We also use probability. When someone says something improbable and you think it might be a lie, but suspend your disbelief, and then they demonstrably lie about other things, it is not unreasonable to infer that the person was lying about the first improbable thing. No, it is not logically compelled--but it is the conclusion where I am putting my money. That was me, I was addressing a very specific statement when I mentioned the appeal to probability. The poster had said that it was all or nothing, because he had cheated in one he must have cheated in the other (or if he didn't cheat in one it would mean he didn't cheat the other). I was just making the point that we can't base the outcome of one solely on the other; and that we must look at the evidence specific to the feat in question rather than only evidence of cheating a different feat. I also agree that lying about one impacts the probability of someone lying about the other. You can use the outcome of one to infer potential about the other, it just can't be your only basis for conclusion. You have done a great job bringing up other points here specific to the gripper close, and I see no issue with your approach at all. Edited February 7 by HandsMcHanderson 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 3 minutes ago, martincerven said: Can you get first video in original quality? This is the only video he sent to me. I don't know if a higher quality version exists. Just now, Allen Heineck said: Did he reach out to you, or you to him? I reached out to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 6 minutes ago, Jared P said: This is the only video he sent to me. I don't know if a higher quality version exists. I reached out to him. Ok. I guess at this point I need a credible source to verify things. I don't know if some wizardry was going on or not, but my 47 year old eyes let me down in areas that my brain says "wait a minute". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Tiz also sent me this angle of the video earlier today, unsolicited, after sending the scale video and before I knew Jared had it. My only thought on this is how far his thumb is stretched away from the gripper when he's closing with his left hand. That just doesn't look right, but I have no idea how this could have been concocted, nor do I care to speculate any further. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 One thing I am noticing is that his mailing package has clear packing tape across the top. I did my 3 cert within about a week of his 3.5 cert, I just checked my video, and the package they sent me did not have clear packing tape across the top. I don't know if that could point towards packaging tampering or not. Maybe others who have received packages could weigh in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Here is before and after 5 closes...it looks to be about 65 mm eyeballing it afterwards compared to 19 mm handles...I had a 159 rgc 3.5 that was nowhere near as narrow that I sold to @Vinnie I forget the spread. Could this be evidence of damaging the spring through heating? I've never tried it but I would imagine you wouldn't notice the spread loss until after the first close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 21 minutes ago, C8Myotome said: One thing I am noticing is that his mailing package has clear packing tape across the top. I did my 3 cert within about a week of his 3.5 cert, I just checked my video, and the package they sent me did not have clear packing tape across the top. I don't know if that could point towards packaging tampering or not. Maybe others who have received packages could weigh in... My 3.5 was taped around the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Here are pics of the spread loss with circles drawn to show distance. These were sent to me by someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHATMUSCLE COACHING Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 It's like Joe Kinney's video all over again. In terms of ease, and, even as his coach, I do watch and say, how the f*** Now all we need is for the cert gripper to go missing. And for Richard Sorin's ghost to log onto the gripboard and start calling it a "phantom 4" all over again. Something about a silver crush and PDA followed by 3 numbers which I am very disappointed escape my mind. Btw... If she doesn't know who Joe Kinney and Richard Sorin are , she's too young for you bro. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Don't do the easy out to get a legit thread shut down. Let it run its rightful course. Richard Sorin did it right BTW. Twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHATMUSCLE COACHING Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 6 minutes ago, Allen Heineck said: Don't do the easy out to get a legit thread shut down. Let it run its rightful course. Richard Sorin did it right BTW. Twice. Does the "phantom 4" exist? Is the "phantom 4" Kinney's #4? I'm merely pointing out this is just history repeating itself. Btw , on the subject of Kinney , the 440# x 60 back squat claim, it was a Hatfield squat, I've 165lb females that can Hatfield squat that with the right leverage setup and assisting heavily with arms. I've been wanting to explain that here for years maybe even decades now but I never seem to keep a gripboard account for long enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Heineck Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Only referencing your original name drop in this, which is notorious for getting threads closed. No mention of squats, or Phantom 4s, or crazy strong women. But, Richard Sorin did it right, twice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsMcHanderson Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 32 minutes ago, PHATMUSCLE COACHING said: Something about a silver crush and PDA followed by 3 numbers which I am very disappointed escape my mind. 621 inch pounds. There are supposedly 4 of them, but I question anything that never actually sees the light of day. Off topic, but yes, I'd say without evidence it's just a claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 @Cannon what do you think of the cert 3.5 losing 20 mm of spread after 5 closes as shown in the pictures, then looking to open up very slowly as shown in the videos? Have you ever seen any gripper lose 20 mm spread, or would you think this is torching or boil damage that reduced the spread after the first close? I've seen much lighter grippers snap open quickly...he really had to fully open up his hand to get the handles to finish opening, which is really abnormal for a supposed 3.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 57 minutes ago, C8Myotome said: Here are pics of the spread loss with circles drawn to show distance. These were sent to me by someone else This is ridiculous lol you can't measure it that way. The handles are angled as well as how the gripper is being held. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 6 minutes ago, dubyagrip said: This is ridiculous lol you can't measure it that way. The handles are angled as well as how the gripper is being held. It's minimally angled, it's the best measurement we can get from the video, it's enough to show that the gripper lost easily 25% of it's spread. That's a LOT to lose. Don't they usually lose like maybe 3-5 mm? Did you watch how slow the gripper opens up in the video, especially in the left hand? It looks functionally defected 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jculpepper Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I don't know enough about grippers to weigh in on the gripper itself is a fake but if I was going to fake something I would just wait for the real one to show up in the mail and then buy the same envelope. Go to he FedEx or UPS and print off a new label. Then put my fake in that. Nothing special about those shipping envelopes. Takes 10 minutes to do as long as you had the fake ready. Or is there some kind of safe guard on the package I'm not aware of? Maybe they need to sign the package before shipping to ensure it's the same packaging. Just my 2 cents. I'm sure I'm missing something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubyagrip Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, C8Myotome said: It's minimally angled, it's the best measurement we can get from the video, it's enough to show that the gripper lost easily 25% of it's spread. That's a LOT to lose. Don't they usually lose like maybe 3-5 mm? Did you watch how slow the gripper opens up in the video, especially in the left hand? It looks functionally defected I'm just commenting on the bro science. I know you didn't come up with it, and yes, in the absence of anything else I guess it provides some sort of reference point. I don't know what to think about the closes anymore, so I'm choosing not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared P Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 4 hours ago, Allen Heineck said: I guess at this point I need a credible source to verify things. Apologies if I'm reading too much into your comment, but I'd hope you are not implying that I'm not a credible source. Anyways, to clarify, this video was originally uploaded to YouTube the same day or week as the main 3.5 certification video, and I believe it remained on Tiziano's channel until all of his videos were deleted. Both videos (front and lateral view) were sent to IronMind as part of the certification attempt. They should still be in possession of both. It took quite a bit of convincing to finally get Tiziano to send me this video, at 7:51am MST this morning. Originally, it was only supposed to be for me. Then I convinced him to let me send it to two moderators here as well. Then to the entire GripBoard. 4 hours ago, Allen Heineck said: I don't know if some wizardry was going on or not, but my 47 year old eyes let me down in areas that my brain says "wait a minute". I think we all have a similar feeling, regardless of age. There are enough elements that don't feel right, such as how easy the closes look, the gripper progress timeline, the deleted videos, the lack of witnesses, the scale issue, the injury, and more - yet for some reason we can't figure this one out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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