"the Kaz #3"

[Tom Black]

I know from an excellent source that told Kaz about the thread and Dr. Squat’s claim. Kaz laughed and said of course he could not do that! Jeff, I would not pose the question that way too him because he never claimed he could do the feat, it is Dr. Squat’s claim that he saw it. I would simply question whether he ever could have done the feat. I would also ask him if he ever did any pinch feat in front of Dr. Squat, like maybe pinching two plates (not a clean, simply a lift and maybe a walk). Maybe that’s where the story started, and the confused Doctor added a plate!

I think it would also be interesting to videotape Kaz denying the feat, posting the video to Cyberpump, and posting the link on Dr. Squat’s forum (that’s a hint guys ).

[Roark]

But, Tom, how could it not have happened if it was witnessed? Kaz must be wrong

[Rick Walker]

What I found to be the most interesting twist in the plot was this:

The great doc claimed that he and Kaz were the only ones in the gym at the time. Also-he nor Kaz thought it to be that big of a deal-so they didnt bother to video or photograph it.

I asked the great and honorable doc why he got documented proof for all his other feats of strength, but not this one.

He never answered me.

He then asked me if I was jealous or something to that effect.

Go figure. You would think someone with his extensive knowledge on topics ranging from fitness modeling to strongman to triathlons would some clue about grip strength.

Rick Walker

[Matt Van Weele]

I don't think asking Kazmaier about some of this stuff would be a good idea either. He did say in (edited for space) that when he was at Bruce Whites he did 115 on a smooth 1' plate. I don't doubt that. He never mentioned anything about 3 45's or cleaning 2 45's in the interview. Theres no doubt when talking to him about some of his lifts that he will be the first to tell you it's not true or at least that how he was with me. So

[Roark]

If you make a mistake reporting a feat, own up to it- I have done it more times than I care to remember.

What's the alternative? Stick with an error to try to save face when everyone knows you are wrong? If that happens you lose respect, and you lose input, because

every statement is questioned because anyone claiming to be perfect should be questioned, doubted, and pushed aside so we can get on to the reality at hand- a reality that unfortunately includes a glitch here and there.

Working together we can figure this out.

And Rick Walker, you are probably jealous

[Matt Van Weele]

If your refering to Kazmaier about clearing the pinching stories up I think your going after the wrong person. Kazmaier was one of the strongest of all time and think like others that were strong like him people try to leech off of them making up stories and creating rumors so they can say they witnessed one of the greats do something unique.

[Rick Walker]

Of his strength-no. Someday-pound for pound-I will be stronger than him.

Of his ability to make strength and strength sports his livelyhood-ABSOLUTELY!

Everyone has a story-just like my wife's grandpa telling me his girlfriend in high school could easily bend the "widowmaker"

Who knows where they come from (stories). Havent you guys heard, I pinched 5-45s in both hands and walked to Uni-Mart with them. My dogs witnessed it.

Rick Walker

[Guest gripmaster316]

Lets just leave this Kaz thing alone. From what we know he can't close the 3, can't clean 2 45's while pinched, and certainly cannot pinch 3 45's. Lets just leave him alone and conclude that he was definitely one of the strongest powerlifters that has ever walked the earth.

And thats final

[Roark]

I was referring to anyone including you and me that makes a ridiculous claim on behalf of himself or another.

[Guest gripmaster316]

I guess that's why you guys made rule #5... good rule by the way.

[Guest Harlan Jacobs]

I would be more likely to beleave claims coming from Kaz than I would a story ( his-story ) form late 1800's to the early 1900's that has been told thousands of times and improved on who knows how many. Not that I think these claims about Kaz are true, but claims in general.

I have a hard time a 185 lb man from the 1800's ( just an example) can be far stronger than todays well trained,nutritionaly advanced atheltes .

[Sybersnott]

Harlan,

There are those few strongmen of old that WERE as strong or stronger than those of today. Notice I use the word, "few".

Also the weightlifting done today is VASTLY different than the weightlifting done at the turn of the century. Ask Saxon or Cyr when they were alive and in their prime to perform a bench press, and they would of looked at you and asked, "What's that?".

Better yet, ask any of today's WSM athletes to do a 370 pound bent press, and I guarantee you ALL of them would fail miserably!!

[Strong Man]

true Snott but Saxon probably trained on his bent press for along long time!, strong man don't do bent press, just Saxon probably couldn't pull a 46,000 lbs truck 100 ft in 50 seconds!

[Roark]

Actually Arthur drove a 46,000 lb truck- it weighed only 10,000 empty but he filled it with his weights

The Inch is a solid example of changing times. Inch touted the tale that thousands had tried to deadlift it and failed.

These days we have several men who can get it off the floor, some who can deadlift it, and at least one who cleaned and push pressed it.

The bent press required more than immense strength- it required timing and balance. I truly believe that none of the modern strongmen have a prayer of EVER beating Arthur's bent press. I also firmly believe Arthur would place dead last in many of the strongman events today-

he was too light at about 200 lbs.

If his strength proportion could be extrapolated to 300 or 320 lbs- look out!

I am confident from the readings about him that he would scoff at bench shirts or any such gimmick. With him it was

just the man against the metal.

[The Mac]

I truly believe that none of the modern strongmen have a prayer of EVER beating Arthur's bent press.

Joe,

You make this statement with a straight face?? This either leads me to believe that today's strongmen need to get bent pressing or Saxon's lift was definitely fraudulent.

[bseedot]

The bent press required more than immense strength- it required timing and balance. I truly believe that none of the modern strongmen have a prayer of EVER beating Arthur's bent press. I also firmly believe Arthur would place dead last in many of the strongman events today-

he was too light at about 200 lbs.

If his strength proportion could be extrapolated to 300 or 320 lbs- look out!

I understand the sentiment of your post, but let's be clear that greater physical strength does not necessarily make the better strongman.

I admit that I've never performed the lift so I don't fully appreciate the feat, but why do you think no strongmen of today will beat Saxon's bent press? I'm not saying I disagree here, just curious about your reasons?

BC.

[Roark]

Because of body shape and the requisite flexibility. A thick wasted man literally cannot get into the position necessary, and though I have seen reference to Paul Anderson performing a bent press- that is a joke- he did side presses which is not in the same county as a bent press.

So, Brian, it was not meant as a slight to modern strongmen, but to bodytype limitations, whenever the era.

Those who more recently trained and were skilled in the bent press, and who managed 300 lbs or above were all of the bodytype needed.

To my knowledge no very thick waisted strongman has ever been noteworthy in the bent press. Perhaps I missed

someone's performance?

Actually, to require a man with the wrong bodytype to even attempt a bent press is unfair- much like doing a backflip while holding a dumbell in each hand- if you cannot perform a backflip, the point is moot and does not reflect a lack of strength so much as lack of skill.

[The Mac]

Joe,

I start to see where you are coming from now. Still, his bent press falls into the category of feats I suspect.

I remember reading in a MD about Dr. Carl Venus (spelling??) who, at 5'11 and 280lbs had claimed to do a 400lb "one-armed" press (style unspecified), for which photos were to be forthcoming. I don't know if they ever were or not - as I don't have the relevant issue!!

[bseedot]

Thanks Joe. So a fat gut can't get the job done. Do you think that it's structurally possible for someone like a Svend Karlsen or a Mariusz Pudzianowski to do this?

BC.

[Roark]

Chris,

Leo Stern in whose gym Carlin supposedly performed the feat was very emphatic to me that it DID NOT HAPPEN!

But, Carlin claimed a machine press not a free weight press. You have not missed photos, which never surfaced.

Of course, it is difficult to photograph that which does not exist!

Brian,

I really would be guessing about the two men you mentioned- but in my opinion Svend would have trouble, while Mariusz seems better suited for the movement- but that is a total guess.

[Fatboy250]

Someday-pound for pound-I will be stronger than him.

Rick Walker

Rick are you kidding or are you serious?

Just as a comparison, use this calculator for the traditional 3 lift PL total.

The Wilks Valuefor Kaz's total is 608.

2425.1lbs Bill Kazmaier 1/31/81 (420.0+300.0+380.0=1100.0 kg. @ 330.0 lb.) (Columbus, Georgia) (USPF/IPF)

Mine was 490.

What is yours? If yours is in the neighborhood of 500+, then it may be possible.

[Tom of Iowa2]

Mariuz has martial Arts experience ast does Dymek.

I would guess they have very good flexibility and of course they aren't thick waisted.There is a great shot of Dymek in (edited to save space) kicking well over his own head while about a foot an a half off the ground....great flexibility.Great coordination and explosive power to do this.

Although 'thick waisted' Bud Jeffries can do the splits and is very flexible throught the hips.He is also a very good 'all arounder'in strength but perhaps without the speed or grip to compete in modern strongman(pro level).i doubt that any of the old timers had Buds flexibility?...as they probably weren't even aware of the martial arts in those days??

Out of the above perhaps only Bud could be coaxed into training the lift as he seems to like some of the 'old school'stuff.He has power to spare and with his squats and partial squats does things that of course the 'old timers'were too small to do?

Dymek and Pudz.have other fish to fry.

jesse Marrunde comes to mind...flexible and without the 'big waist'

[Strong Man]

hey tom can you send me the pic of Dymek kicking

[Tom of Iowa2]

Sorry dude...i don't even have a scanner.

But it is page 64,September,2002 of (edited to save space) magazine.

It is an excellent front kick.he is kicking a bottle out of this other dudes hand that is held OVER his head at arms length.The guys whos hand is holding the bottle is over 6ft tall.Dymek got some serious 'air'.

He IS very flexible

[The Mac]

Chris,

Leo Stern in whose gym Carlin supposedly performed the feat was very emphatic to me that it DID NOT HAPPEN!

But, Carlin claimed a machine press not a free weight press. You have not missed photos, which never surfaced.

Of course, it is difficult to photograph that which does not exist!

Joe,

Thanks for clearing that up. Iwas slightly miffed when I found that I did not have the issue I thought was in question - now I know the photos were not forthcoming I can feel much better!!

Tom,

Both Dymek and Pudz would have a chance I'd say - but unless they try of course we will never know. Perhaps you could talk some of your gym colleagues to have a try - they seem game for some "unusual" training??!!