stratavarious_connection Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 "hands too thick"...LOL...I guess his hands are " too thick" to make a fist as well.....rotflmao..... and as far as 3- 45's...well.... I believe almost everyone else has said enough on that subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Harlan Jacobs Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 It's hard to lock a topic where Kaz is concerned ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Not to burst anyones bubble but those that are saying Kaz and others as possibly the worlds strongest,or strongest ever,They forgot to say Chemicaly Assisted,there is a world of difference,and in my eyes still cheating,yes Kaz is awesome and did a 1st Bench of 300kilos,but i say it was assisted,in my eyes it aint a record to compare with others,that goes for all the records in lifting/strength sports that are assisted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 gazza, My bubble was burst long ago- and I agree with you. It is simply that I do not know where to place the date of the beginning of drug-enhanced performances. Testosterone has been around since World War II in some forms, so it is possible that even records in the 1940 and 1950s were aided by it. I simply do not know. I was told two days ago that one of the most famous weightlifters in the world- a man whom I and many others had assumed was clean, was probably not clean for the final three years of his lifting career. A very famous man, whose name I will not reveal because I'm not sure the info is accurate but it came from a man who is usually a spledid and reliable source. To be on the juice is not something to be admired; but to be on it, deny that you're on it, and compete in natural contests, is worse- at least in my value system, because then the lifter is a liar and a user. Just my opinion. Anyway, how far back do we go in modern strongman events to note that so-and-so was clean? Who would be your choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 (edited) In as much as it makes any difference to me (and it doesn't, as I have posted many times before) I thnk you would have to go back to before WW2 to be sure with any reasonable degree of certainty that they did not take steroids. Up unto about 1960 you could probably be "quite sure", after that I don't think you can be sure at all. As for Kaz, I was not aware that the had EVER claimed to be clean. As for the lifter Joe mentioned, I am intiruged - although I of course understand why he would be unwilling to post the name. Edited June 12, 2003 by The Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 I was promoting the feat as true, I just thought it was an "over the top" statement. Rick already denounced it on Dr. Squat, and I wasn't aware it was discussed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Sorry, it should say "I WASN'T PROMOTING THE FEAT AS TRUE", I never believed it when it was discussed on other forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratavarious_connection Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 >>>>>>>>>>>is clean , always has been clean, always will be clean.....also, not worth monitoring LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 >>>>>>>>>>>is clean , always has been clean, always will be clean.....also, not worth monitoring LOL What?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratavarious_connection Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Mac, my comment was pertinent to drug usage..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Joe I would say go back to Grimek and before,but there are obviously people after that did not use among the greats. It realy peaves me,when you have all the oldtime feats of strength that have been verified(not the unverified ones)Then you have all the modern feats that are tainted in my eyes by cheating,i think even useing bench shirts,supersuits,belts and some supplements,if you cannot do it with the body and strength you have,then you keep on trying,or it just was not to be. When you have the likes of what Joe kinney,heath,nathan,tommy,dave etc are doin on the crush,Terminator,Steve W,Rick Walker and big Steve,pushing each other to the limit and Chris the MONSTER James good at everything,but these guys will never hardly be reconized outside off this Board,when outside of this people are mega impressed by a drug bloated,drug assisted 3ply super dupa 600-800-1000lb lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsofStone Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 (edited) yes Kaz is awesome and did a 1st Bench of 300kilos, I hate to make a big deal of this but it a pet peeve of mine. Bill Kazmaier was NOT the first the man to bench over 300 kilos. It seems that many have forgotten the man who was truly ahead of his time, and his name is Jim Williams. He benched 675 lbs. back in '72.(aided with elbow wraps) The first man to break his record was Big Ted Arcidi ( My idol) with a 705 bench in '85. Jim Williams later on benched 720 lbs. in a powerlifting meet in front of the Olympic Committee but was not counted b/c it wasn't a sanctioned meet. Jim trained the bench 5x a week as well. Awhile back, I had talked with him over the phone asking why he benched so frequently. He replied by saying: Jim-"What's your favorite dish to eat?" Me- " Steak" Jim- "What would happen if you ate that once a week and nothing else?" Me- " I would be starving myself" Jim- " Exactly, you wouldn't have the strength to lift up your fork to feed yourself. You have to consistently work yourself to make gains." L.J. Edited June 12, 2003 by HandsofStone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Van Weele Posted June 12, 2003 Author Share Posted June 12, 2003 Jim benhed that much but he wore elbow wraps. Kazmaier wore a belt and wrist wraps thats it. Nonetheless Jims one of the all time greats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Page Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Is not Kaz at his age. well past his prime of some 20 plus years ago?I doubt if these days he can still do anything like the things he could do in his glory years, let alone close a #3 gripper. Old guy I heard that it is possible to grip train all the way up into your forties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 If that is the case, OldGuy is doomed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmainlands Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I think the bottom line with Kaz, is that he has nothing to prove and he gets defensive at this stage when challenged or asked about strength feats, IMHO. I have had the luck to see videos of alot of the Kaz strength contests at the end of his competetive career. As he neared the end - he resorted to cheating and taunting to try and win. When he is remembered at his peak, possibly circa 1981 or 1982, he was undoubtably the man. Think of the WSM 1981 and Kaz was at that time the total package of incredible speed and power. The barrel load on the truck alone, where he made barrels of over 200lbs (I think) look empty was in itself amazing. As evidenced by the 1979 WSM (Kaz's debut). he did indeed have huge thick hands and fingers, and his grip gave out on the fridge-hoist lift. He surely has to be considered one of the strongest ever "all-arounders", and if his grip was not world class it does nothing to diminish his place in the iron game history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I find it annoying when people make claims for him (such as the 3x45lb plate pinch) which are beyond even his limits. Steve Neece wrote (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Whenever someone new comes along and makes a great lift, someone will always write an article claiming that (Paul) Anderson did more at some place and some time". I believe the same thing happens with Kaz. And Kaz was the first to bench 300Kg in an IPF sanctioned competition, which is the benchmark that I use anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I have noticed the same characteristic in print about Anderson. Even when he FAILED with a lift, writers would indicate that the section of the lift he did move through looked so easy, that surely he could have done more- when in fact he did NOT lift the weight under original discussion. It was as though he was assumed to be stronger than the amount he had just failed with. While this is not unique to Paul, I have noticed it with far more frequency than about other lifters. I have (non lifting) friends who describe something they saw, which feat was simply not possible, but they do not know how to observe lifting and interpret it, but with writers in the magazines- at least in Paul's day- one would hope that not to be the case. Even today we have this condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I am sure that if I attempted to squat 1230 RAW and failed, it would be clear for the world to see that I would be able to do it with "a bit of training"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Chris, I KNOW you have mastered the negative part of the squat- simply work on the positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 The negative portion would certainly be VERY easy.... Just as unbelievable as the 3x45's is the claim for Kaz to clean 2x45's to the shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul valpreda Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Where do these "crazy" Kaz stories come from? I can't believe how ridiculous some of these claims are. He was a great strongman/powerlifter no doubt, but I just don't understand some of these claims. I guess if you are a legend, this type of thing follows you around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gripmaster316 Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Yes... Yes it does... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Some of these stories begin with unqualified witnesses. I have a friend here who described a feat of strength to me that he saw a high school kid do- the feat would have taxed a strongman competitor, but the kid did it casually and with no special effort. I do not believe the story, but the man who told me believes it- he 'saw' it. Therein lies the rub. Some of the stories form from extrapolation- well if you can do that much, then surely Kaz or Anderson or whoever could do 40% more? We know in the #3 case with Kaz/Heath et al the reverse is sometimes true. Somebody has to step up and say enough. We need proof not profound tales. When you step forth, you become very unpopular, and are attacked not as a truth seeker but as some disrespectful guy that will not accept at face value what has been bandied about for years. Step right up, there's plenty of room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeff Roark Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Why don't someone ask Kaz at the AOBS? Ask him how he trained to pinch 3 45lb plates and how he trained to clean 2 45lbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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