Mikael Siversson Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) Today's workout with the Europinch exemplifies the incomplete picture of (variable width) pinch strength, relying solely on the 2HP. My training partner Lee pulled 1 per cent more than me in the 2HP and I pulled 10 per cent more than him in the 1HP (and we have been training both varieties equally hard for two years). Given that the 1HP is probably a stricter test of thumb strength one could argue that unless you can beat DH's 51.4k in the 1HP, or rather beat his total percentage-wise (eg beating his 2HP by 2 per cent and pulling 1 per cent less in the 1HP), you cannot justifiably claim to be the undisputed #1 on the Europinch. In my case I am either mediocre or almost elite depending on whether you look at my 2HP or my 1HP. Edited July 9, 2011 by Mikael Siversson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Today's workout with the Europinch exemplifies the incomplete picture of (variable width) pinch strength, relying solely on the 2HP. My training partner Lee pulled 1 per cent more than me in the 2HP and I pulled 10 per cent more than him in the 1HP (and we have been training both varieties equally hard for two years). Given that the 1HP is probably a stricter test of thumb strength one could argue that unless you can beat DH's 51.4k in the 1HP, or rather beat his total percentage-wise (eg beating his 2HP by 2 per cent and pulling 1 per cent less in the 1HP), you cannot justifiably claim to be the undisputed #1 on the Europinch. In my case I am either mediocre or almost elite depending on whether you look at my 2HP or my 1HP. Oh boy! This should produce a 10+ page thread for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Burns Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 im no expert on 2HP but the thought that 1HP being more of a strict test of thumb strength is an interesting idea however you gotta look at the percentages in both hands if you gonna seperate it... The 2hp requires you to use both your left and your right obviously so did you test what your strength in your non strong hand was compared to the strength of your partners non strong hand? it only seems logical to me that your 2hp isnt stronger then your partners 2hp because your training partners non strong hand is actually more equal to his actual strong hand. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbe705 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I don't think anyone claims to be the europinch champion. it's the 2hp record that people chase. I also don't think that anyone has argued that 1hp isn't a more strict test of thumb strength. It seems to me that 2hp is the pinch test standard at this point because it's so widely contested. much like bench press is the only pressing variation in powerlifting. it doesn't matter what you jerk because that isn't an event. it would be interesting to see what the differences are in 1hp vs 2hp numbers on the same athletes. I know chris rice and I have talked about this. some people's 2hp numbers benefit from 1hp training. some people can increase their 1hp and gain nothing on the 2hp. I know andrew durniat credits his one hand training with bringing up his 2hp last season. I'd also be interested to see what widths people use for 1hp vs 2hp. The couple of people I know who have an opinion on this use different widths. what was horne 2hp'ing the same time he did the 1hp lift? that would be interesting to know as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Burns Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 i agree with you. its an interesting subject that i wouldnt mind looking more into as well... maybe havingin a highier percentage in one hand is a cause of some neuropathways and focus on using just one hand with everything u got instead of being somewhat complacent? again just a thought.... great topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Good idea. I like "Undisputed #1." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Styles Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Perhaps you have a greater bilateral deficit Maybe your skill at the 2 hand pinch is lower Could be the 2 hand pinch exposes your weak hand Just because two data points make a straight line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) Well lets take todays workout. First I maxed out in the two hand pinch and managed 87k (PR is 92k). I then maxed out in the one hand pinch and pulled 44.5k right hand (PR is 46k-101.4lb) and 44k left hand (PR is 44.5k). My training partner pulled 88k in the 2HP, 40.5k right hand and 40k left hand. This is a rather typical workout for us. I personally suspect that I have strong thumbs but very weak wrists. We both used 64mm width (I did also tried 61mm in the 1HP but pulled the same). Looking at the numbers above, which one has the strongest Europinch me or my training partner? Edited July 9, 2011 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Who's heavier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) Chris, I am 81-82k, he is 93-94k. Edited July 9, 2011 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonJelly Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) 2 separate tests of pinch strength! Generally 2HP #s will be more than 1HPx2. Edited July 9, 2011 by LemonJelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Burns Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 agreed that they are different forms of pinch grip testing... everyone is different there isnt one specific scientific answer for how one person can pinch more with one hand compared to him not being able to pinch as much as someone else with two hands... there are a number of factors that come into play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) In theory at least you should be able generate torque in the two hand pinch if you have strong wrists, thus driving your thumbs against the plate with more force. I would not be surprised if a larger data set would reveal that strong benders have a higher 2HP relative to their 1HP. Anyway the bottom line is that the 2HP is an incomplete test of pinch strength on the variable width Europinch set. I would also argue that the 1HP is a stricter test of thumb strength as you cannot use torque to aid your lift. Interestingly my combined right+left 1HP total cought up with my 2HP over a six month period after I stopped doing 2'' vbar lifting, and, as we all know, vbar lifting is partly about using torque to prevent rotation. I happily admit that I would like to see the 1HP more frequently featured in competition partly because it is a good lift of mine but having said that do you feel strong if you can outlift guys like me by 20k in the 2HP only to be destroyed in the 1HP? We need an undisputed pinch grip champion that will show dominant strength two handed as well as one handed. Pinch grip events in competitions should primarily be about thumb strength. Unsurprisingly it turned out that I am good at blob lifting as I deadlifted the 50blob first time I saw it (at the 2006 Oz championship). Edited July 10, 2011 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Well, right now the main test is the 2 handed pinch. Hard to really say anything on the one hand pinch since it is so rarely contested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Well, right now the main test is the 2 handed pinch. Hard to really say anything on the one hand pinch since it is so rarely contested. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 Well Bob the glove is thrown and I would be surprised if it is not picked up by some of the top guys in the 2HP, or maybe they are simply not strong enough to beat DH's 51.4k or even get close... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 If the object is to find the best overall Pincher - at all widths etc and with 1 or 2 hands - Chad Woodall comes to mind very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 All widths is not that interesting as we could choose a width wide enough where DH would fail lifting 1k. The whole point of the Europinch set up is that you can pick your best width. Chad might be able to beat 51.4k but at this point it is speculation. If the object is to find the best overall Pincher - at all widths etc and with 1 or 2 hands - Chad Woodall comes to mind very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Mikael, I see your point but you could throw the glove in alot of things and many people here wouldn't give a damn. Yeah, I see your point and also kinda agree with you. Still, until the one hand pinch becomes as hotly contested at the Euro pinch, it is mostly just speculation. Now, if the world would just agree to have grip comps consist only of bench pressing and hammer levering.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 As far as I know we Americans have never had one hand pinch on a Euro in a contest here - until it's actually contested more than a couple times - saying David is the best doesn't mean much at this point. If it becomes a competition lift and people start to train it - I think results will climb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Bob I get your point and, as an organiser, you have to make sure that, if you are competing yourself, you do not pick events that will favour yourself in the overall result. In the next grip competition in Perth on 21 January, 2012, the 1HP is indeed one of the events but the others do certainly not favour my abilities (i.e., TNS grippers and 2'' vbar). My best in training is about 170k on the 1'' vbar but only 114k on the 2''. The plan is to alternate between the 1HP and the 2HP (with the latter featured in a July 2012 competition). Some people, Jedd for example, most likely do care a bit that it has now been implied that DH might be better at the Europinch (2HP and 1HP combined). My example with my workouts with my training partner demonstrates that 2HP results can be somewhat misleading if you want to test thumb strength on the variable width Euro set up. To get a complete picture in the 1HP you would need to test both hands though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Chris, It was actually one of the events in one of the WSH legs but the US organisers bailed out when the weaklings complained that they could not even get the basic set up (typically 25-26k) off the ground. As far as I know we Americans have never had one hand pinch on a Euro in a contest here - until it's actually contested more than a couple times - saying David is the best doesn't mean much at this point. If it becomes a competition lift and people start to train it - I think results will climb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 You are wrong Chris I am afraid as DH is well known for his awesome 1HP strength. He has pulled some 55k in practice so given that the #1 is held by DH it does mean something. As far as I know we Americans have never had one hand pinch on a Euro in a contest here - until it's actually contested more than a couple times - saying David is the best doesn't mean much at this point. If it becomes a competition lift and people start to train it - I think results will climb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbe705 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Chris, It was actually one of the events in one of the WSH legs but the US organisers bailed out when the weaklings complained that they could not even get the basic set up (typically 25-26k) off the ground. As far as I know we Americans have never had one hand pinch on a Euro in a contest here - until it's actually contested more than a couple times - saying David is the best doesn't mean much at this point. If it becomes a competition lift and people start to train it - I think results will climb. I think that was a consideration for the women's class more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 That could have been easily sorted by letting the females do the 2HP and the males the 1HP. After all Elisabeth Horne is a bit of an anomaly. Chris, It was actually one of the events in one of the WSH legs but the US organisers bailed out when the weaklings complained that they could not even get the basic set up (typically 25-26k) off the ground. As far as I know we Americans have never had one hand pinch on a Euro in a contest here - until it's actually contested more than a couple times - saying David is the best doesn't mean much at this point. If it becomes a competition lift and people start to train it - I think results will climb. I think that was a consideration for the women's class more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.