Super Squats

[jamesburk3]

Ive been using this program for about a year now. I do only one set per week. When i started I was using 175. Im now up to 255 for twenty. Every week I do as many reps as i can, If i get 25 or more i move up five pounds the next week. And now none of my jeans fit. lol...

THats awesome James 175 to 255, great improvement right there with the 20Rep Squats man!

Thanks man.. Im also in the race for a 500 deadlift.

[makey98]

I have heard the real gains come when you can do 1.5 x BW for 20. So it may be better for a rank beginner or intermediate lifter to try the 20's for a while, then go to a 2x8 or 5x5 or something and build up to the 1.5BW x 20 and then hit it hard like that 6-8 weeks adding weight every workout.

I tried this for a while and liked it. I saw some good gains in the weight and started out very carefully and went from 135 - 215 x 20 Once a week with the 20 reps and then another day with heavy deads x 20. I liked the low volume but had some other back issues that set me back before I could get up to 270. (1.5 x 180)

Sybersnot- I have heard the "do your 10 rep max" for 20 which is obviously impossible, but I think it is just more to illustrate how difficult it should be. More like a weight you can barely do 15 times, and then rest as long as possible to get the last 5.

[lifesnotfair]

Sybersnot- I have heard the "do your 10 rep max" for 20 which is obviously impossible, but I think it is just more to illustrate how difficult it should be. More like a weight you can barely do 15 times, and then rest as long as possible to get the last 5.

I always interpreted this in another way... I assumed most people would do their squats "consecutively" in a set. Say, breathing at most one time between reps. If you take your 10RM done like this, and start breathing 3 or 4 times between reps, then it should be possible to do more reps, maybe 20...

[jamesburk3]

Sybersnot- I have heard the "do your 10 rep max" for 20 which is obviously impossible, but I think it is just more to illustrate how difficult it should be. More like a weight you can barely do 15 times, and then rest as long as possible to get the last 5.

I always interpreted this in another way... I assumed most people would do their squats "consecutively" in a set. Say, breathing at most one time between reps. If you take your 10RM done like this, and start breathing 3 or 4 times between reps, then it should be possible to do more reps, maybe 20...

Thats how i do it. Mite be as many as 8 breaths on the last few reps. A hard set of 20 takes me a good three and a half mins. Im ususally completely out of breath when im done.

[meelhama]

Q to the panel: Has anyone come across, in the book, where it tells you to take your "10 rep max" and crank out 20 reps with it?

Someone somewhere started this rumor and now everyone thinks that this is what you're supposed to do! Some joker wrote an article about it somewhere and now everybody believes this to be true. It's not.

It would be impossible to beat out 20 reps on your 10 rep max! Thoughts please...

I did this in college. I was 172lbs and I worked up to 20 rep squats with 295lbs. At the end of the program I was 182. A few points:

Milk:

Yes, I drank 1 gallon each day. I feel it would have been better to use a 1/2 gallon of milk/day with protien powder added.

Useing your 10 rep weight for 20 reps:

This is exactly what you do. Keep in mind, however, that rarely is a person's 10 rep max an actual true 10 rep max. No one ever tries to find a weight that they can get 10 with and then totally fail on rep 11. However, most people know what they can squat for 10 reps, give or take 2. In the case of the 20 rep program, you are definately useing a weight that you can not use for 12 or more reps with a normal tempo. Tempo changes everything. You rest and pause while doing the reps so that you can make it to twenty. The set is similar to 6 or 7 sets of triples with your 10 rep max weight with very short rest periods. This is a better analogy.

[Sybersnott]

Milk:

Yes, I drank 1 gallon each day. I feel it would have been better to use a 1/2 gallon of milk/day with protien powder added.

I've often thought of adding chocolate and making it CHOCOLATE milk instead of drinking regular milk. Any thoughts about this? Would the added sugar from the chocolate be too much? I'm thinking it would help in the digestion. I still think & believe that using other forms of protein would be better than consuming a gallon of milk per day.

Useing your 10 rep weight for 20 reps:

This is exactly what you do. Keep in mind, however, that rarely is a person's 10 rep max an actual true 10 rep max. No one ever tries to find a weight that they can get 10 with and then totally fail on rep 11. However, most people know what they can squat for 10 reps, give or take 2. In the case of the 20 rep program, you are definately useing a weight that you can not use for 12 or more reps with a normal tempo. Tempo changes everything. You rest and pause while doing the reps so that you can make it to twenty. The set is similar to 6 or 7 sets of triples with your 10 rep max weight with very short rest periods. This is a better analogy.

Yeah, you'll keep the weight on your back and make sure you get all 20 reps no matter how long it takes (good analogy). I'm currently re-reading my copy of Super Squats right now.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Sybersnott

[hamil1km]

Milk:

Yes, I drank 1 gallon each day. I feel it would have been better to use a 1/2 gallon of milk/day with protien powder added.

I've often thought of adding chocolate and making it CHOCOLATE milk instead of drinking regular milk. Any thoughts about this? Would the added sugar from the chocolate be too much? I'm thinking it would help in the digestion. I still think & believe that using other forms of protein would be better than consuming a gallon of milk per day.

Useing your 10 rep weight for 20 reps:

This is exactly what you do. Keep in mind, however, that rarely is a person's 10 rep max an actual true 10 rep max. No one ever tries to find a weight that they can get 10 with and then totally fail on rep 11. However, most people know what they can squat for 10 reps, give or take 2. In the case of the 20 rep program, you are definately useing a weight that you can not use for 12 or more reps with a normal tempo. Tempo changes everything. You rest and pause while doing the reps so that you can make it to twenty. The set is similar to 6 or 7 sets of triples with your 10 rep max weight with very short rest periods. This is a better analogy.

Yeah, you'll keep the weight on your back and make sure you get all 20 reps no matter how long it takes (good analogy). I'm currently re-reading my copy of Super Squats right now.

Bullitt and I our starting our second round of a variation of this Monday. Using DO Deads instead of the squats. Fun times!

[knyaz]

hey 20 reps is great, although squats are hard for me, I worked up to 195 x 20

lots of protein and lots of rest but I think I was at abou 150 x 20 when started this

[DannyGrip]

Q to the panel: Has anyone come across, in the book, where it tells you to take your "10 rep max" and crank out 20 reps with it?

Someone somewhere started this rumor and now everyone thinks that this is what you're supposed to do! Some joker wrote an article about it somewhere and now everybody believes this to be true. It's not.

It would be impossible to beat out 20 reps on your 10 rep max! Thoughts please...

I did this in college. I was 172lbs and I worked up to 20 rep squats with 295lbs. At the end of the program I was 182. A few points:

Milk:

Yes, I drank 1 gallon each day. I feel it would have been better to use a 1/2 gallon of milk/day with protien powder added.

Useing your 10 rep weight for 20 reps:

This is exactly what you do. Keep in mind, however, that rarely is a person's 10 rep max an actual true 10 rep max. No one ever tries to find a weight that they can get 10 with and then totally fail on rep 11. However, most people know what they can squat for 10 reps, give or take 2. In the case of the 20 rep program, you are definately useing a weight that you can not use for 12 or more reps with a normal tempo. Tempo changes everything. You rest and pause while doing the reps so that you can make it to twenty. The set is similar to 6 or 7 sets of triples with your 10 rep max weight with very short rest periods. This is a better analogy.

About the whole one gallon a day of whole milk idea which is just absurd and can end up giving you a premature death along with looking like a fat blob, stop and think for a moment who's giving this recommendation and how they look?

The author of this book is no health expert nor trained athlete. Well in fact, this author doesn't look healthy and actually doesn't possess a body worth even mentioning on here. The 20 Rep squat wasn't introduced to the world with that book and was actually something Arnold was and many others have done decades before that book was ever written.

Milk is good for you, but unless you're an extremely active teenager with the metabolism of a humming bird on ephedrine, then drinking a gallon or even half a gallon would leave you quite fat, constipated (from all the lactose), and exceeding healthy calcium intake levels entering your body.

The bodybuilders from the old days ate eggs (more eggs whites), poultry, fish, meat, cottage cheese, yogurt, and any other animal source protein they can get their hands on. A good variety of protein sources, including that from nuts, legumes, and whole grains, along with fruits and vegetables in your diet will do you so much more than just gulping milk all day long.

To get a true herculean physique, you need to add more than just squats - including deadlifts, overhead presses, bench press, pullups, and many more bodybuilding exercises along with cardio training to keep your circulation and cardiovascular fitness on a healthy level.

[Guest Bullitt]

I have done a round with squats and a round with deads. Drank a gallon of milk every day (skim or 1% usually, but sometimes whole) and never put on an ounce of fat. In fact, my midsection got tighter both times. The hormone changes brought on by the heavy, high rep squats 3 times per week, seem to cause the extra calories to be shuttled into building muscles. As far as being constipated Danny, I have never crapped more in my life. Doing something like this for 6 weeks isn't going to bring on premature death. It is also not limited to just squats. The old squats n milk program and the "super squats" book recomend an overall workout following the squats.

I would recommend this program for anyone trying to put on quality mass and strength in a short amount of time. Obviously it isn't something you can do year round, but it has proven itself over and over again since the 50's.

[judoboy]

20 rep squats rule

the first 15 reps are only practice and prep for the last 5. each of the final reps should be a whole new world of hurt - love it.

milk rules (especially with whey)

[DannyGrip]

Once again, the recommendation of drinking a gallon of whole milk a day is not good for your health at all.

Please add up the saturated fat content of one cup of milk then multiply that by 15 or so.

The end result: high cholesterol levels in the body from huge amounts of saturated fat in your diet.

Considering the majority of America is lactose intolerant, I don't think it's the best idea nor suggestion.

I personally drink about 1 liter of milk a day and there are many more varieties of protein that will give you mass in an intense squatting routine. Yogurt and Cottage Cheese are actually superior to milk in overall grams of protein per serving.

Eggs have a higher biological value than milk. Red meat provides traces of natural creatine, minerals and other vitamins. Fish provides great protein and Omega-3 Fatty Acids. Fruits provide antioxidants to fight off free radicals in the body.

Not saying milk is bad, just stating that someone who wants a great body needs a variety of different foods in their diet.

Remember: if Exercise is King, Nutrition is Queen! The two together form the kingdom (body).

[Guest Bullitt]

Once again, the recommendation of drinking a gallon of whole milk a day is not good for your health at all.

Please add up the saturated fat content of one cup of milk then multiply that by 15 or so.

The end result: high cholesterol levels in the body from huge amounts of saturated fat in your diet.

Considering the majority of America is lactose intolerant, I don't think it's the best idea nor suggestion.

I personally drink about 1 liter of milk a day and there are many more varieties of protein that will give you mass in an intense squatting routine. Yogurt and Cottage Cheese are actually superior to milk in overall grams of protein per serving.

Eggs have a higher biological value than milk. Red meat provides traces of natural creatine, minerals and other vitamins. Fish provides great protein and Omega-3 Fatty Acids. Fruits provide antioxidants to fight off free radicals in the body.

Not saying milk is bad, just stating that someone who wants a great body needs a variety of different foods in their diet.

Remember: if Exercise is King, Nutrition is Queen! The two together form the kingdom (body).

Agreed. That's why I mostly stick to skim and 1%. In addition to the milk, I also eat at least 3 eggs a day (mixed in with my whey after workout) and a variety of lean protein sources. The whole (usually raw) milk is just the way the old timers did it. Over 6 weeks, I don't believe you will do any irreparable harm using whole milk, but I like skim better anyway. Obviously if you are lactose intollerant, the milk is out. Definitely not a lifestyle diet. You don't want to stay on this more than the 6 weeks, but the gallon of milk (skim, 1%, 2%, or whole) is a great way to add about 130 grams of quality protein to your diet every day in addition to your normal intake. The key with squats and milk is getting enough protein and calories in your body to recover and grow from the tremendous workload you put your body through over the 6 weeks. If you can get 2G/lb of bodyweight in protein somewhere else, I'm sure that would work too. Not disagreeing with you Danny. Just saying that a 6 week period shouldn't give you a coranary.

[judoboy]

Obviously it isn't something you can do year round, but it has proven itself over and over again since the 50's.

enough said

[hamil1km]

Once again, the recommendation of drinking a gallon of whole milk a day is not good for your health at all.

Please add up the saturated fat content of one cup of milk then multiply that by 15 or so.

The end result: high cholesterol levels in the body from huge amounts of saturated fat in your diet.

Considering the majority of America is lactose intolerant, I don't think it's the best idea nor suggestion.

I personally drink about 1 liter of milk a day and there are many more varieties of protein that will give you mass in an intense squatting routine. Yogurt and Cottage Cheese are actually superior to milk in overall grams of protein per serving.

Eggs have a higher biological value than milk. Red meat provides traces of natural creatine, minerals and other vitamins. Fish provides great protein and Omega-3 Fatty Acids. Fruits provide antioxidants to fight off free radicals in the body.

Not saying milk is bad, just stating that someone who wants a great body needs a variety of different foods in their diet.

Remember: if Exercise is King, Nutrition is Queen! The two together form the kingdom (body).

Are you a nutritionist Danny? Just curious based on your elaborate posts

[DannyGrip]

Once again, the recommendation of drinking a gallon of whole milk a day is not good for your health at all.

Please add up the saturated fat content of one cup of milk then multiply that by 15 or so.

The end result: high cholesterol levels in the body from huge amounts of saturated fat in your diet.

Considering the majority of America is lactose intolerant, I don't think it's the best idea nor suggestion.

I personally drink about 1 liter of milk a day and there are many more varieties of protein that will give you mass in an intense squatting routine. Yogurt and Cottage Cheese are actually superior to milk in overall grams of protein per serving.

Eggs have a higher biological value than milk. Red meat provides traces of natural creatine, minerals and other vitamins. Fish provides great protein and Omega-3 Fatty Acids. Fruits provide antioxidants to fight off free radicals in the body.

Not saying milk is bad, just stating that someone who wants a great body needs a variety of different foods in their diet.

Remember: if Exercise is King, Nutrition is Queen! The two together form the kingdom (body).

Are you a nutritionist Danny? Just curious based on your elaborate posts

I have a health and nutrition background based on studies from college, but regardless the things I've stated on the benefits of certain foods is evident. If you're only doing the one gallon of milk thing once or twice in your lifetime and it only lasts few months, then yes in the long run it can be safe. Definately 1% or skim is a better choice for this, because a gallon of whole milk add so many fat calories, I doubt anyone would end up looking lean after all of that is consumed.

Look, I'm no pro and most likely none of us are, but I'm just going by my own experience on gaining size and keeping my body shredded. Bullitt's variety of different proteins is the way to go! Mixing it up and getting from different sources is what the body wants in order to grow. The definate key in a power program is to get lots of protein!

[hamil1km]

Once again, the recommendation of drinking a gallon of whole milk a day is not good for your health at all.

Please add up the saturated fat content of one cup of milk then multiply that by 15 or so.

The end result: high cholesterol levels in the body from huge amounts of saturated fat in your diet.

Considering the majority of America is lactose intolerant, I don't think it's the best idea nor suggestion.

I personally drink about 1 liter of milk a day and there are many more varieties of protein that will give you mass in an intense squatting routine. Yogurt and Cottage Cheese are actually superior to milk in overall grams of protein per serving.

Eggs have a higher biological value than milk. Red meat provides traces of natural creatine, minerals and other vitamins. Fish provides great protein and Omega-3 Fatty Acids. Fruits provide antioxidants to fight off free radicals in the body.

Not saying milk is bad, just stating that someone who wants a great body needs a variety of different foods in their diet.

Remember: if Exercise is King, Nutrition is Queen! The two together form the kingdom (body).

Are you a nutritionist Danny? Just curious based on your elaborate posts

I have a health and nutrition background based on studies from college, but regardless the things I've stated on the benefits of certain foods is evident. If you're only doing the one gallon of milk thing once or twice in your lifetime and it only lasts few months, then yes in the long run it can be safe. Definately 1% or skim is a better choice for this, because a gallon of whole milk add so many fat calories, I doubt anyone would end up looking lean after all of that is consumed.

Look, I'm no pro and most likely none of us are, but I'm just going by my own experience on gaining size and keeping my body shredded. Bullitt's variety of different proteins is the way to go! Mixing it up and getting from different sources is what the body wants in order to grow. The definate key in a power program is to get lots of protein!

I see. Keep in mind that not everyones goal is to get "shredded". Most people on here are looking to gain strength. Not looking to be on the cover of Men's Health.

[climber511]

I can't remember the full history behind the 20 rep squat program (Bruce Randall maybe?) but I know I read about it in the McCallum articles back in the 60's. I really think it was designed for the largely teen aged boys audience of the time. Remember that the 60's had a "skinny" problem - not an obesity one - we really didn't have many fat people back then. My graduating class had 2 guys over 200#. The gallon of milk thing was simply a way to increase calories and protein intake in an easy and fairly cheap way for the time - the protein of the time was seriously nasty stuff. I can remember drinking a gallon of milk, and eating a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter a day in addition to regular meals and not gaining a pound. My friends and I only had 100# of weights so 20 was a warm up set - many sets were much much much longer before we scored some more plates. There is nothing magical about the number 20 and skipping the breathing pullovers is a huge mistake - they are critical to the overall results I think. Everyone focuses on the number 20 and forgets adding the plates to the bar every workout you do. It's called "progressive" resistance for a reason. The number 20 just insures enough hard work to make it work - for most people - this equates to a real eye opener about what hard work really can be.

[The Natural]

I just got done with a 3 week cycle of 20 rep squats. 315x20, 335, then 355, no belt. I think their main value is in bringing about muscle confusion, if you're used to do low reps with heavy weight (as you should be if you're wanting mainly strength). It's also good for developing mental toughness and aggression. I wouldn't stick with them though as my main type of workout if you're wanting a big squat max. They are great though for adding a bit of chaos and unpredictability to your training. Just when your body is getting used to 3x5 or whatever, you hit it with a hard set of 20. I think they're great too for improving the yoke walk.

-Rex

Edited August 18, 2009 by The Natural

[mbcx6pmw]

I've read a few things recently saying the link between saturated fat and cholesterol isn't actually all that well established, e.g:

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html

It makes sense in a lot of ways, heart disease was a lot rarer 60 years ago, yet people were eating fattier cuts of meat, whole milk, lard, butter etc. The main difference today seems to be the rise of convenience foods, processed grains and vegetable oils etc. Mind you, people were generally a lot more active back then.

Anyone who knows a bit about nutrition, I'd be interested to hear some thoughts.

Sorry for the slight thread sidetrack

[DannyGrip]

I've read a few things recently saying the link between saturated fat and cholesterol isn't actually all that well established, e.g:

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html

It makes sense in a lot of ways, heart disease was a lot rarer 60 years ago, yet people were eating fattier cuts of meat, whole milk, lard, butter etc. The main difference today seems to be the rise of convenience foods, processed grains and vegetable oils etc. Mind you, people were generally a lot more active back then.

Anyone who knows a bit about nutrition, I'd be interested to hear some thoughts.

Sorry for the slight thread sidetrack

I would definately agree with you that our food industries have went ahead and made things worse with introducing processed grains and all these man-made vegetable oils. The vegetables oil (especially the hydrogenated trans-fat filled margarine) are very unhealthy to our bodies and are even worse than animal fats. The best thing is moderation though, even with red meat - as studies do show that very high consumption of red meat is associated with heart disease and cancer. A lot of saturated fat in your diet will definately raise cholesterol levels, but the key here is not to abstain from it altogether as that will leave you with decreased testosterone levels and other things associated with having a low fat intake from diet.

So lift hard, train your grip, eat your protein, and go out for a nice run on the beach!

[hamil1km]

I've read a few things recently saying the link between saturated fat and cholesterol isn't actually all that well established, e.g:

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html

It makes sense in a lot of ways, heart disease was a lot rarer 60 years ago, yet people were eating fattier cuts of meat, whole milk, lard, butter etc. The main difference today seems to be the rise of convenience foods, processed grains and vegetable oils etc. Mind you, people were generally a lot more active back then.

Anyone who knows a bit about nutrition, I'd be interested to hear some thoughts.

Sorry for the slight thread sidetrack

I would definately agree with you that our food industries have went ahead and made things worse with introducing processed grains and all these man-made vegetable oils. The vegetables oil (especially the hydrogenated trans-fat filled margarine) are very unhealthy to our bodies and are even worse than animal fats. The best thing is moderation though, even with red meat - as studies do show that very high consumption of red meat is associated with heart disease and cancer. A lot of saturated fat in your diet will definately raise cholesterol levels, but the key here is not to abstain from it altogether as that will leave you with decreased testosterone levels and other things associated with having a low fat intake from diet.

So lift hard, train your grip, eat your protein, and go out for a nice run on the beach!

Is that why you're always taking shirtless pics danny? running on the beach all the time

[CoC#3]

About the whole one gallon a day of whole milk idea which is just absurd and can end up giving you a premature death along with looking like a fat blob, stop and think for a moment who's giving this recommendation and how they look?

I drink a load of whole milk - probably about 6 pints a day. Have done for the last 3-4 years. I have been through phases of drinking a gallon, sometimes more. I weigh 295 or so at 5'8''. I am not lean, but am not exessively fat either. I probably carried more fat when i bulked up to 230 for the first time 3 or so years ago. My health is ok - BP is normal and i'd class my fitness as reasonable for someone close to 300lbs. If i were to diet and get lean, i;d probably finish up weighing 240-250. 60-70lbs more than these mens health models, at a shorter height.

The author of this book is no health expert nor trained athlete. Well in fact, this author doesn't look healthy and actually doesn't possess a body worth even mentioning on here. The 20 Rep squat wasn't introduced to the world with that book and was actually something Arnold was and many others have done decades before that book was ever written.

Sure. Randall doesn't claim to be anything he isn't. This book is well written and has made a lot of people aware of the routine, without it i doubt many would have done the research and discovered it.

Milk is good for you, but unless you're an extremely active teenager with the metabolism of a humming bird on ephedrine, then drinking a gallon or even half a gallon would leave you quite fat, constipated (from all the lactose), and exceeding healthy calcium intake levels entering your body.

Lactose is only a problem if you are intolerant. I am not and have never had any digestive problems from milk. The calcium levels are only an issue of you do not consume enough iron and zinc. Hard if you supplement with a multi like most do.

The bodybuilders from the old days ate eggs (more eggs whites), poultry, fish, meat, cottage cheese, yogurt, and any other animal source protein they can get their hands on. A good variety of protein sources, including that from nuts, legumes, and whole grains, along with fruits and vegetables in your diet will do you so much more than just gulping milk all day long.

Why not do both? That and the milk. I eat all these food groups you mention aswell, as do the lads i train with.

To get a true herculean physique, you need to add more than just squats - including deadlifts, overhead presses, bench press, pullups, and many more bodybuilding exercises along with cardio training to keep your circulation and cardiovascular fitness on a healthy level.

Have you read the super squats book? All the exercises above are included. Why do you need 'bodybuilding exercises' and cardio? 20 rep squats, if done properly provide enough cardio.

[Guest Bullitt]

I just started a round of squats and milk on Wednesday. Was going to do deads n milk with hammy, but our grip is so fried from Wannagrip's experimental grip program we decided to switch to squats. Hopefully I do not have a heart attack from all the milk. If I do, i will be very upset.

[CoC#3]

Yep i've got tightness in my chest now aswell. This milk will kill ya...