Nick McKinless Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I can't believe this lift hasn't got the recognition other lifts get on this board. If you know anything about grip and have actually done a contest you would realise just how incredible this lift is. You all go ga ga over someone squeezing a spring or bending a piece of steel and yet this is REAL lifting. Over 400lbs, One Handed on one of the toughest lifts in the book. Jim Wylie, David Horne, Steve Gardener, Elizabeth Talbot, Top Strongmen and myself were all there and all put this as the lift of the day and I think we know what we're talking about between us. One of the best feats of grip and overall strength I have seen in a long time. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARKR Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I can't believe this lift hasn't got the recognition other lifts get on this board. If you know anything about grip and have actually done a contest you would realise just how incredible this lift is. You all go ga ga over someone squeezing a spring or bending a piece of steel and yet this is REAL lifting. Over 400lbs, One Handed on one of the toughest lifts in the book. Jim Wylie, David Horne, Steve Gardener, Elizabeth Talbot, Top Strongmen and myself were all there and all put this as the lift of the day and I think we know what we're talking about between us. One of the best feats of grip and overall strength I have seen in a long time. Nick Great post Nick your right this is an incredible lift ive just watched it on youtube.It is an incredably heavy weight on a difficult peice of equipment, and made to look text book perfect I was also impressed by Steve Gardeners one hand deadlift of 150k which again to coin your term is a 'real lift' taking a huge amount of hand strength to stop that straight bar spinning form your hand .Looks like it was a great contest Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 It is a beautiful lift, easily clearing the 5cm block. It is nonetheless not fully comparable to a competition lift with calibrated weights. In a proper competition when you do your final vbar lifts, you have usually done a couple of (draining) hours of grippers and pinch in a major competition, such as the GGC. Moreover, Theo and Mobster "only" did pinch before the vbar so they would have had more vbar strength in them than if they had also done grippers. Theo has done vbar several times over the last couple of years in proper competitions and has averaged around 300k. Some vbar lifters seem very sensitive to the surface texture of LGC vbars. Theo did much less on the original LGC vbar whereas he excelled on a vbar that is, together with the Diesel Crew's, probably the best seasoned LGC vbars. To me personally it does not matter how much chalk there is on a vbar but it does matter to many others. If Theo is back to 150-160k in the May competition and beaten by Chad on another LGC vbar then that would sort of prove my point. It was a fantastic lift but for me at least I want to see consistency and the lift done in a full unlimited competition with the standard events grippers and pinch done before the vbar. David Horne for example, consistently pulls closer to 110k in competition in the pinch. I just want to make sure that this was just not a "one off" day when everything worked for Theo. If he can do it again on another LGC vbar in a proper competition and beating Chad then he would in my view be king of vbar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdfk20 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 phenomenal lift! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspinillo Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Great stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) One of the reasons I am cautious about the merits of the lift is that we had a potentially similar situation a couple of years ago when a Swede pulled a mid-170's vbar lift in a local competition on a LGC vbar. He later competed in the LGC competition and managed 145 something on a vbar that some find slippery as it does not hold that much chalk. On this very same vbar Theo pulled 152.5k some 8-9 months ago. Edited February 26, 2007 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabull Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 agreed with Nick! incredible lift! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McKinless Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Mikael, This was as close to a competition lift as you can get. The judging was super strict, there was 15-20 people watching on, the pressure in many ways was even more intense as the attention is on just two people. There was 'no where to hide' so to speak. There were two video cameras being used to judge the V-bar and this will probably become the standard. Steve had a lift that looked marginal and we used the camera to get the decision that the lift was good. Also, the bar used was a standard bar. You can't demerit someone because of the bar used. Theo may not have proved he's the best to you but he has to everyone who saw the lift under 'near' competition standard on saturday. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) One of the reasons I am cautious about the merits of the lift is that we had a potentially similar situation a couple of years ago when a Swede pulled a mid-170's vbar lift in a local competition on a LGC vbar. He later competed in the LGC competition and managed 145 something on a vbar that some find slippery as it does not hold that much chalk. On this very same vbar Theo pulled 152.5k some 8-9 months ago. I'm thinking Johan? Pulled a 171-kilo with his wife taping him for the net to see and then both Theo and I out pulled him on what was very obviously an 'off' day for him. The order and sequence of events is an interesting point but look at what both Theo and I did on the grippers at the end as opposed to the beginning of Saturdays competition. Indeed I suprised myself as my gripper strength has been off with the improvements on 2HP taking something away. And we had to set and hold for a 20mm block before the squeeze. At last years British I did a 2.96 left and a 3.65 right - all at the start of the day I just missed doing that (couldn't quite get the left down) at the end of a day. With a very small deviation in points we hit about our old PB's - so it made little or no difference. I'm not sure, given my training numbers, that we would have done better had the grippers been earlier. If you look at Theo's 2HP with about 90-kilos it looks at his limit whereas my 3rd with 95-kilos looks good for more. On the v-bar it's the other way round. Even though I had done a load more in training I was touch and go on my 3rd and 4th attempts with either hand whereas Theo look good a load more. In my mind I may have been affected by another event (I was sure the RT and one hand deadlift would affect each other more) but I think it would have made no difference at all for Theo - he was that 'on' with the v-bar on the day. Edited February 26, 2007 by mobsterone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 If he is the best then he will beat Chad in May. I am stronger in vbar if I don't have to do grippers first. Moreover, virtually all of us compete very infrequently. Who knows what Chad can pull these days. In stead of guessing we can look forward with great anticipation to the May competition. If Chad beats Theo in the vbar you will never hear the end of it. Mikael,This was as close to a competition lift as you can get. The judging was super strict, there was 15-20 people watching on, the pressure in many ways was even more intense as the attention is on just two people. There was 'no where to hide' so to speak. There were two video cameras being used to judge the V-bar and this will probably become the standard. Steve had a lift that looked marginal and we used the camera to get the decision that the lift was good. Also, the bar used was a standard bar. You can't demerit someone because of the bar used. Theo may not have proved he's the best to you but he has to everyone who saw the lift under 'near' competition standard on saturday. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Betty Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Mikael. I'm new here so i wil choose my words carefully as what i would like to type might get me banded. But how you can sit and type what you did is unreal to me that lift was the best that has ever been done. Does it matter what order the events were run in if a power lifter only does a dead lift does that mean the world record does not count because he did not do the squat and bench before NO. And as for the whole calibrated weight rubish as the weights in question belong to myself and steve and i have weighted them on calabrated scales just not down toy your BS standard they are if anything over weighted so in fact i can say with 100% confidence that that v-bar lift was atleast 186.5kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 5 disciplines and two people competing against each other, looks like a competition to me, so i don´t understand what Mikaels point is. Very very impressive lift Theo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Just a note, As stated previously I will not add any results to the vbar lists from this year onwards unless two 5cm high boards are used for the judging. One in front of the lifter and one behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Betty Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Send me a PM if you want i just don't understand what your problem with Theos lift is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 As I said it is a beautifully executed, very heavy vbar lift. Is it fully comparable to a vbar lift in a standard grip competition? No it is not. This is a fact you guys can't handle very well it seems. Send me a PM if you want i just don't understand what your problem with Theos lift is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 5 disciplines and two people competing against each other, looks like a competition to me, so i don´t understand what Mikaels point is.Very very impressive lift Theo It had been discussed prior to the event as to whether or not it would be classed as a competition for record purposes. Theo and I knew it would not so... The issue of scale calibration is a bone of contention of old with me and again as we knew no records would be recorded it was again not worth the time, effort and expense. This event was not sponsored, we used our own venue and there was still some expenses. Both my personal and company finances have limits and baed on the last quote it would have been £60.00 / 90 Euros for a days hire. The scales Mike mentions are not certified, although accurate, but he is correct in stating that we tested our metal 20's and other metal plates and all bar one, of the 20's for example, were out by at least 1-kilo. For Theo's v-bar we used our newly purchased 10 x 15-kilo discs plus 2 x 15-kilo metal plates on top. I have had an offer to help with the expense of using said scales prior to the British and we may consider it closer to the time. As we now own something like 1000-kilos of Olympic discs (the rubber covered alone is 560-kilos) it will be a 'bugger' to sort out. Regarding the two blocks. We have these but used one on Saturday. As Nick mentions with digital cameras and video cameras we suggest a side view helps. Nick used a tiny tripod and set his on the floor. We also had at least three to the front. That said, as Mikeal mentions, Theos were pulled very high so there was no issue there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuTCH Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I just want to add, that this lift was done in competition style, and there is only Mikael who doesn't see it like this. Fine. The comments you made as to not put in records, i knew beforehand. That being said, i think you should reconsider the fact that the supermatch in the future does get recognized as real 'competition'. A higher 'class' event like this, you won't see happening very often. Now the fuzz about the bar, and my on and being off or not. The bar was seasoned, so..? Steve pulled on it before and even got heavier numbers on it (not getting them this time), as have all the others. Jim pulled on it, nearly getting over 180kg, and now i pull 185kg and there is slight doubt? Still, we have standard equipment, so i think people should really shut up about it being seasoned or not. It is a LGC-bar, owned by DH, and that is it. SHould we be cleaning it with soap before the contest, inbetween lifts? Having one or two events would have made not much of a difference, as we were only given 2 minutes of rest in between (harder) as opposed to probably getting around 10-20 minutes in a bigger competition field. (easier) My 2nd contest i got 156,5x2 on the V-bar. Then it went downhill a bit. 8-9 months ago indeed i got around 155k or so. Just don't go forgetting i am still training it, changed my technique a lot and my approach of the lift. So progress will be made. By responding to this thread, i pretty much put the pressure on me again, fine, i can live with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian Kellersmann Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Theo's V-Bar lift mentioned by Laine Snook on Ironmind http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/morenews.php?id=1911#1911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimwylie1 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 If the weights had been calibrated then I don't see any reason why a lift shouldn't be count as a WR at a super match. The pressure and the conditions are the same as a competition. I guess having the gripper event before the v bar could have an effect on the results but I don't believe that there's anything in the rules which specifies that the event must be completed after the gripper event! Theo, that was the best performance that I've ever seen on the v bar and I can't wait to see what you pull in Germany. You scared the hell out me with those lifts on Saturday and I just hope that I can get in the slip-stream of you and Chad when we compete in Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I just want to add, that this lift was done in competition style, and there is only Mikael who doesn't see it like this. Fine. The comments you made as to not put in records, i knew beforehand. That being said, i think you should reconsider the fact that the supermatch in the future does get recognized as real 'competition'. The top 50 lists I maintain are for regular competitions (not just exclusive to two individuals). You guys can all make your own lists and quite frankly recognise whatever records you wish. A higher 'class' event like this, you won't see happening very often. Now the fuzz about the bar, and my on and being off or not. The bar was seasoned, so..? Steve pulled on it before and even got heavier numbers on it (not getting them this time), as have all the others. Jim pulled on it, nearly getting over 180kg, and now i pull 185kg and there is slight doubt? Still, we have standard equipment, so i think people should really shut up about it being seasoned or not. It is a LGC-bar, owned by DH, and that is it. SHould we be cleaning it with soap before the contest, inbetween lifts? There is nothing wrong with David's LGC vbar. Just pull a similar number in May and prove me wrong (i.e., my suggestion that it is easier to pull big numbers in a two man meet).[/b] Having one or two events would have made not much of a difference, as we were only given 2 minutes of rest in between (harder) as opposed to probably getting around 10-20 minutes in a bigger competition field. (easier) My 2nd contest i got 156,5x2 on the V-bar. Then it went downhill a bit. 8-9 months ago indeed i got around 155k or so. Just don't go forgetting i am still training it, changed my technique a lot and my approach of the lift. So progress will be made. By responding to this thread, i pretty much put the pressure on me again, fine, i can live with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Betty Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I have a question if someone was to do a lift be it v-bar or 2hp with calibrated weight in front of witnesses would it will not count as a record because it has to be done a a event like a national contest or alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximus1 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Congrats Theo,an outstanding lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McKinless Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 It's ridiculous, geeky, over the top treatment of lifts and competitions in the grip world that separate grip training from being known as a 'cool' or 'good' thing to do for the rest of the Iron Game sports like Powerlifting etc. It is known as being Grip Gay on many other boards and forums and I can see why. Whine, whine, whine... Mikael's dedication to keeping records is second to none and I am sure everyone likes reading their names on the lists. However, there is NO OFFICIAL body so as far as I am concerned and everyone that witnessed the event this was a competition and the only reason Theo's lift doesn't stand as the World Record is simply because the plates weren't calibrated. I DO understand the need for calibration but do not undertsand why this was not recognized as a proper competition or for questioning the apparatus of which was approved by the European's and the British alike. The American's may have their faults (I don't like the idea of two hand categories or some of the choice of lifts) but they do stick together and they do appreciate good lifting when it's done. They just get on with it! I almost never post on this forum and this is exactly why. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdckr Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Great lift! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 As I stated above there is nothing wrong with the vbar used. My remarks on different LGC vbars were related the question whether Theo is the undisputed vbar king or not. Regarding these two competitor challenge games; well both Theo and Mobster lifted more in the vbar than they have ever done before in regular competitions (allowing more than just two competitors). If they drop back again in lifting poundages in the upcomming regular competitions then it appears that I knew what I was talking about when I inferred that it would be easier to set records in these super matches. It's ridiculous, geeky, over the top treatment of lifts and competitions in the grip world that separate grip training from being known as a 'cool' or 'good' thing to do for the rest of the Iron Game sports like Powerlifting etc. It is known as being Grip Gay on many other boards and forums and I can see why. Whine, whine, whine...Mikael's dedication to keeping records is second to none and I am sure everyone likes reading their names on the lists. However, there is NO OFFICIAL body so as far as I am concerned and everyone that witnessed the event this was a competition and the only reason Theo's lift doesn't stand as the World Record is simply because the plates weren't calibrated. I DO understand the need for calibration but do not undertsand why this was not recognized as a proper competition or for questioning the apparatus of which was approved by the European's and the British alike. The American's may have their faults (I don't like the idea of two hand categories or some of the choice of lifts) but they do stick together and they do appreciate good lifting when it's done. They just get on with it! I almost never post on this forum and this is exactly why. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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