Rick Browne Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I could use myself as an example to demonstrate how absurd it is to only allow citizens to compete in the main, yearly competition in a country. I live in Perth and had to spend 4-5 hours on a plane to get to Sydney. If the Australian championship excluded non-Australian citizens then I would basically not compete at all, period. It is naive to believe that people would rush in from all the territories to attend a second, open competition just to let me and Nick compete officially. They would go for the open competition and the national championship would quietly die out. Once again, the sport of grip is too small for us to exclude non-citizens to compete. BS: It's an open event now and 5 of you competed. So much for that plan and for being naive. Plus Australia, like America, has problems with geography - it's very big and in Auz - mostly empty. Even at last years Brits we had more turn up if not to compete. I am disappointed by the stubborn stance of the Germans on this issue. It will backfire. I'm not really sure who is stubborn here. He wants it open, he argues for it to be open, it's not open. Oh dear... In tennis the British Champs is Wimbledon and hasn't been won by a brit for a long time. Where as the British Iron Grip championships have been - many, many times. And that's the British Tennis OPEN not British championships. Actually, it is the "Wimbledon Championships" which became became part of the Grand Slam event with The Australian Open, The French Open and the US Open. Hey now, there`s a thought. Make all the grip contests Opens and form a Grand Slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I could use myself as an example to demonstrate how absurd it is to only allow citizens to compete in the main, yearly competition in a country.I live in Perth and had to spend 4-5 hours on a plane to get to Sydney. If the Australian championship excluded non-Australian citizens then I would basically not compete at all, period. It is naive to believe that people would rush in from all the territories to attend a second, open competition just to let me and Nick compete officially. They would go for the open competition and the national championship would quietly die out. Well apparently not. You suggest making such competitions open as a means of encouraging participation and I'll presume, obviously, that the event at which you did so well was an open competition. With 5 participents. If it had been closed it would have had 3. That's 3 and 5 not 30 and 50. It needed to be open to swell its numbers by 2 (a little more than one but less than 3). Now the British was, by comparison, hardly a gangbuster but it had 5 also. All Brits. The German event had one Dutch and the rest - more than 5 mind - were German. I seriously do not think your suggestions of open events are gonna make that much of a difference. Publicity will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McKinless Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Steve, Why are you so adamant about keeping the competition as a National comp as apposed to an Open Comp? I would have thought you of all people would want to have the very best compete. Forget the numbers. Forget bashing other events based on numbers of contestants. The main point here is to get more of the best grip guys in the world competing together more often. I think were getting to the stage now where we all want to know who the best is each year based on competition results and records produced in competition. I think David's idea of having each 'national' comp as an open event as part of a 'super series' or 'grand slam' is definitely going in the right direction. I'm not saying it is doable yet because of financial constraints but it is doable in the foreseeable future. Can you imagine a competition, on any continent, with the top 3 from every contest in the past 5 years competing? That's the sort of thing I want to see and to compete in. There's more than 200 grippers worldwide. There's a few thousand on this board alone. We just need more people to compete and its happening. There seems to be regional comps every week right now. How cool is that?!? 1.There needs to be some kind of ranking system to work out a Top 20. 2.There needs to be plenty of open competitions. 3.There needs to be more sponsorship to encourage grip athletes to travel to comps. 4.Standardization, both for equipment and lifts, to be decided upon. Let's get that sorted and were on our way to some very interesting developments. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Cos I have given examples of why it hasn't worked or made that much of a difference even though I agree, in principle with points 1-4. If more people entered it would be easy to hold both kinds of events. So we need to get more people. I could make the British open - how many more would come? I await their replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McKinless Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 We need to be pro-active. We need to solve problems not wait for people top come to us. If a solid structure is in place people will more likely come to us. You had a dig at the lack of comeptitors at this years Australians. We know now we made a mistake by having minimum standards for this years competition. Previous to this I have had 13 or 14 competitors at competitions including girls. Not bad for a country with no one here and for only the second grip competition ever held here. The solutions are there... 1. Top 20 could be done right now based on the World records and placings in the top events around the world (GGC, Euros, Germans etc etc). 2. Simple....make all the top competitions open. I'd be just as happy to be a British Open champion as British Champion. A win is a win and if its against international competitors then mores the better. 3. Sponsorship is great for prizes. But why not up the cost of entry a little and put it towards accomodation for overseas competitors. I'd be happy to do this and I am sure others would too. 4. Standardization. Were close. I believe we have the Grippers, Euro Pinch and V bar. 2 More to be decided. Not too hard is it??? Actually, I wouldn't mind deciding on one more standard event and having the 5th event at the descretion of the promoter. Thoughts? They may not be the right answers but at least I am trying to be positive and pro-active instead of bickering like old ladies in a supermarket line!! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Nick, Some superb points! Top 20 each year, or maybe over a 3 year period, yes. Good fun. We should encourage all people to step on the platform, and as was mentioned, having minimum standards was no good right now. As I said earlier a meeting should be organised. Steve, Maybe Chad would come to the British if it was an open comp? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 We need to be pro-active. We need to solve problems not wait for people top come to us. If a solid structure is in place people will more likely come to us. You had a dig at the lack of comeptitors at this years Australians. We know now we made a mistake by having minimum standards for this years competition. Previous to this I have had 13 or 14 competitors at competitions including girls. Not bad for a country with no one here and for only the second grip competition ever held here. The solutions are there... 1. Top 20 could be done right now based on the World records and placings in the top events around the world (GGC, Euros, Germans etc etc). 2. Simple....make all the top competitions open. I'd be just as happy to be a British Open champion as British Champion. A win is a win and if its against international competitors then mores the better. 3. Sponsorship is great for prizes. But why not up the cost of entry a little and put it towards accomodation for overseas competitors. I'd be happy to do this and I am sure others would too. 4. Standardization. Were close. I believe we have the Grippers, Euro Pinch and V bar. 2 More to be decided. Not too hard is it??? Actually, I wouldn't mind deciding on one more standard event and having the 5th event at the descretion of the promoter. Thoughts? They may not be the right answers but at least I am trying to be positive and pro-active instead of bickering like old ladies in a supermarket line!! Nick Yes. The £3000+ my company spent last year sponsoring strength and bodybuilding events was obviously not pro-active enough. The £150.00 it gave to the CoC event alone was sooo low. My promotion of this years IG is a piss take and my suggestions of 4 weeks ago to resolve some of these issues is very granny like. Reel your neck in - nigh on all of those bickering and arguing have had more than a passing interest at creating events, competing themselves and encouraging others - including your good self. I made a suggestion to the effect that publicity is one way forward. What efforts are being made to get the event reports into magazines and on more mainstream sites? Nick,Some superb points! Top 20 each year, or maybe over a 3 year period, yes. Good fun. We should encourage all people to step on the platform, and as was mentioned, having minimum standards was no good right now. As I said earlier a meeting should be organised. Steve, Maybe Chad would come to the British if it was an open comp? David I put in my post that I await their replies. I await the rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Nick,Some superb points! Top 20 each year, or maybe over a 3 year period, yes. Good fun. We should encourage all people to step on the platform, and as was mentioned, having minimum standards was no good right now. As I said earlier a meeting should be organised. Steve, Maybe Chad would come to the British if it was an open comp? David Perhaps my suggestion of a standard was seen as a limiting factor? It wasn't meant in that way but if a means of establishing a top 20, 30 whatever, could be forumlated then we could have an annual event at which competitiors could be drawn from that group. Then if a WSM or similar wished to enter they would have to show, even at one comp, that they were of that standard? Else, as per my post to that effect, you'll have a guy with the money to attend but nothing like the strength - not exactly kudos to whip his butt is it - you beat the weak rich guy? Way to move the sport forward.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 2, 2006 Author Share Posted March 2, 2006 Is there a Mobster filter somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Here's part of your problem right here: http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=11610&st=40 The members of the group to which we belong say they do not want it mainstream. I discussed the idea 2 years ago of working with John Gallegher (he of the Inch dumbbell) who put on a strongman event right on the beach. David Horne will recall my conversations with him to that effect. We said that the events, if held in that public a way, would need to be visual and easy for Joe Blow to 'get'. Mikeal, if memory serves, wasn't too keen. Others said that they wanted it to stay underground. If our own members want it obscure how can we change their minds? If it stays obscure then the events stay small no matter whether or not they are open or otherwise. Lastly would those who win now keep winning? Comments please: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Just a friendly moderator reminder. Nick pointed out people bickering like old ladies. I agree, let's not have that. No personal shots or even remotely personal (example: master of the obvious) or I'll remove that person from the boards until this discussion is over. Thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Since a few of us who are talking about this are online why don't we take this into the chat room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 2 of us are there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkhardmacht Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Since a few of us who are talking about this are online why don't we take this into the chat room? Perhaps it would be good to discuss that problem at the Euros in Germany? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Gillingham Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I have been thinking about these issues a bit lately. Here is my take on this, in the three strength related sports most closely related to grip: strongman, powerlifting, weightlifting, you have 3 different ways of handling this. weightliting is the most strict with qualifying totals for nationals and worlds. powerlifting is in between with qualifying for the national comp (in the US - not sure about euro) but an open nomination process for the world team - basically the country has the descretion who to send - in the US it is based on winning your class at nationals and achieving a standard total - if you don't achieve the standard you could be bumped by a 2nd place winner who does. In strongman it is really wide open - mostly because it is a growing sport with A LOT of growing pains. There have been years that the US had a decent qualification system - open nationals, depending on placing at nationals you go to WSM. There have been many more that were either rigged or someone just hand selected. For grip, and Chad's case in particular, if the Europeans is run as an open comp he should be able to compete. If it is the true European championships he should be a guest lifter. It would be up to the organizing body of the US to accept his potential records as American or National records, but it should be a no brainer that if he sets a world record and the judging criteria fits the predetermined needs to set a world record, his record should count. The distinction between the two is generally American records can be set anywhere, National records only set in a US national comp. I have seen european powerlifters compete as guests in the US nationals. I have also seen european strongmen compete in US national meets with their placing counted for prize money but obviously they were thrown out for purposes of the meet qualifying an athlete for WSM or for the US rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 2, 2006 Author Share Posted March 2, 2006 but it should be a no brainer that if he sets a world record and the judging criteria fits the predetermined needs to set a world record, his record should count. ...predetermined needs... I think this is where there seem to be different views. One predetermined need could be that a world record must be set within a competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 2, 2006 Author Share Posted March 2, 2006 Having thought about it a little, I don't think the European Championship is the ideal competition for Chad. He wants to compete against the best Europeans and he would like to have a go at a WR if he is having a good day. The current best Europeans are David Horne, Nick McKinless, Martin Arildsson and Steve Gardener. David is not competing this year and Nick is in Australia. Martin may or may not compete in the Europeans and the same with Steve. Martin will however, unless sick, compete in the next LGC competition in May which is an open competition. Likewise, Steve will almost certainly compete in the next IG competition (not sure if it is going to be open this year though). The best bet for having a go at a WR without any controversy and to compete against one of the very best Europeans would be to compete in the LGC competition. David Horne has competed in this event (2003). It would be a fantastic showdown in the pinch between Chad and Martin, as both are monster strong in this event. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Chad can be a guest if he wishes but I may not be able to do any calibration of the discs etc being used until the venue is decided. Where as he will be able to set records on calibrated equipment if he does attend the European event. Franky and Florian are hardly chopped liver. I'd also rate 'the Swiss' as being of a class to test anyone - but thanks for the vote of confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 2, 2006 Author Share Posted March 2, 2006 (edited) The Swizz is very strong but like myself lacks in one of the five events. For him it is the pinch and for me it is the one hand deadlift. Martin, on the other hand, is strong or very strong in everything. Records set as guest will not be recognised by me at this point, so there will be some controversy about this. I will however accept a majority ruling in the soon to be formed grip panel. Edited March 2, 2006 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_Arildsson Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Thanks for the kind words Mikael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 2, 2006 Author Share Posted March 2, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Steve, Shame the British Iron Grip champs is not open like it used to be. Anyway, last's life! Mikael, Good to see that we will all be accepting majority voting. But I like you would vote against guest lifters breaking records as it's just not the same. Martin, Like the signature line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Jim Wylie?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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