mobsterone Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 If Korte learned from previous experience, i think chad will be a guest.. Let's hope not. The Americans let us Europeans compete in their top competitions with no strings attached and yet you are suggesting that we (I am including myself as European) should put ourselves on a pedistal of purity and let our fellow brothers in America spend hard earned money to come to Europe and add some exotic, but unofficial flavour to the competition. Remind me what you posted at the time of the German competition regarding Dutch's involvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) Remind me what you posted at the time of the German competition regarding Dutch's involvement. I have changed my mind. Simple as that. In the end it is, as always, up to the organizer to decide. I am just arguing a bit and so are you. Having said that, the Swedes still make up a large portion of European competitors. You can interpret that statement any way you wish. Edited March 1, 2006 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 What does the German promoter think? And it remains to be seen how many Swedes compete outside of Sweden (without getting into strength and how it is percived by the Nordic races and their history). Why did you change your mind? I do worry that too many rules will hold people back. I have seen both the USAWA and IAWA lose competitors like no tomorrow due to a lack of interest and rules over competing and yet wish to see, as I believe you do - non promoter or not - some kind of rules, regulalations and agreed standards. This is why I will qualify and why I asked these kind of questions weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 Earlier competitions only - ie: When Arne and Kalle competed. Other versions did NOT have other countries competing. Not true. Please do your homework. There have been Swedes in the IG on several occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankyBoy Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Talked to Hermann on the phone. Chad is very welcome to come and attend the competition. He won't be placed inside the final results though. Exactly the same like Theos visit at the germans was handled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Earlier competitions only - ie: When Arne and Kalle competed. Other versions did NOT have other countries competing. Not true. Please do your homework. There have been Swedes in the IG on several occasions. Will the dates have been before I competed? And only in the past? Will it happen this year? No. Talked to Hermann on the phone.Chad is very welcome to come and attend the competition. He won't be placed inside the final results though. Exactly the same like Theos visit at the germans was handled. So not an open event. Does that mean I won LOL (just kidding). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkhardmacht Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 I think it would be good to have a European Grip Championships contest where only Europeans are allowed to compete. Guests are very welcome to do their liftings but won't be included in the final rankings. It would be good if we allow the guests to break records when they are lifting under the rules of the competition (for exmaple a given number of attemps) because this makes the competition more attractive. The only reason why recordbreaking at home is not accepted official is that there's no offical judge and the record attempt while a competition is influenced by the other events (and so on...). So why not allow the guest to make record attemps? A reason to allow competitors from other countries, for example US, is to make the comp more attractive. This is a good argument. I would say that we have to build a new open like competition for that purpose. A much better option ist the CoC contest from David Horne! It's not really an open contest but the list of the potential competitors was long - and it'll get longer and longer over the years - so that's not the problem. The major national contest should never allow foreign competitors to enter the final rankings because it's a national contest - it's so simple. Guest are welcome - no problem. (that's my personal opinion - other countries can do what they like!). So I see the problem of D.Hurzeler and T.Burggraaf who will perhaps compete alone if no foreign competitors will join the comp. But You guys should take this as a motivation to promote the sport more and more! BTW: I don't organize the Euros - I only arrange things here. There's some kind of misunderstanding here - concerning my participation in the organisation and the competition itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Talked to Hermann on the phone.Chad is very welcome to come and attend the competition. He won't be placed inside the final results though. Exactly the same like Theos visit at the germans was handled. Pretty lame. If he breaks any records and they don't count because he's not European and thus can't compete.....what a huge step in the wrong direction for our sport. I hope none of the American promoters adopt this kind of nonsense in regards to foreign competitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkhardmacht Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Talked to Hermann on the phone. Chad is very welcome to come and attend the competition. He won't be placed inside the final results though. Exactly the same like Theos visit at the germans was handled. Pretty lame. If he breaks any records and they don't count because he's not European and thus can't compete.....what a huge step in the wrong direction for our sport. I hope none of the American promoters adopt this kind of nonsense in regards to foreign competitors. Josh - it's not fixed yet if a record of a guest counts or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankyBoy Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 If he breaks any records and they don't count because he's not European and thus can't compete Thats not true. The recognition of records is a separate part and for sure not done by the promotor. There are and will be a lot of open contests here. Best sample was Davids Champion of Champion Contest which unfortunately received an extreme low interest by foreign competitors. As in most other sports I prefer having a national, continental and world champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 As in most other sports I prefer having a national, continental and world champion. Well, most other sports have a lot more than just a couple of hundred competitors world wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Talked to Hermann on the phone. Chad is very welcome to come and attend the competition. He won't be placed inside the final results though. Exactly the same like Theos visit at the germans was handled. Pretty lame. If he breaks any records and they don't count because he's not European and thus can't compete.....what a huge step in the wrong direction for our sport. I hope none of the American promoters adopt this kind of nonsense in regards to foreign competitors. It's lame if it was the case. It isn't and it wasn't the issue. The issue was allowing someone from outside to compete in a National and International competition and have them place - even though they'd not be from that country or continent. Now if the USA holds a US national competition and a Canadian competed and won that would be wrong. If it was the North American competition or the US 'open' that would be different. Records would still count as I agree on Mikeals suggestion - accepted by other contest promoters - that records in competition ONLY be valid. So Chad, as a guest, can compete and set records - he'll have a hell of a time. But he cannot win the European championships as his not European. If the European event becomes an open that's a different story - but if we do that then ALL events need to be open to all. A step backward IMO. We don't want - as per that who's name escapes me - to be able to hold a World Championships in Canada with 4 of his training partners on obscure lifts no one else does - what was his name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 ...A much better option ist the CoC contest from David Horne! ... Do you hear that Americans. You are all very welcome to compete within a European grip competition. ...you just have to wait for the next CoC contest in 2009... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 As in most other sports I prefer having a national, continental and world champion. Well, most other sports have a lot more than just a couple of hundred competitors world wide. True. But you were working towards making the sport more organized - has all that been wrong? This site and Grippermania have many 1000's and 10's of 1000's of grippers get sold all the time. I was and still are keen on exposure as a means of moving it foward. Anyway even with a few 100 potential competitors worldwide it still needs to be able to justify a national and international standard for competitions. By all means have guests but beyond that stick with the levels and qualifying needed. Else we could end up with no need for a British, European and then a Worlds - just turn up and go - even though there would be some poor out of his depth newbie making the whole thing look silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankyBoy Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 As in most other sports I prefer having a national, continental and world champion. Well, most other sports have a lot more than just a couple of hundred competitors world wide. True, and yet even in the last germans already 14 germans did compete, so whats the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkhardmacht Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 ...A much better option ist the CoC contest from David Horne! ... Do you hear that Americans. You are all very welcome to compete within a European grip competition. ...you just have to wait for the next CoC contest in 2009... Oh man - that was an example of ONE contest! That does not mean that there will never be another open contest! I only mentioned this special contest because everbody in the gripworld knows David Horne. But I can organize an open contest at my house! Everybody can come - no problem! It would be a nice comp (i have all offical equipment), I can organize it every year and i have much space for people who wants to sleep here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Not only was it a one off but you had to have placed in the top three in ANY other event. There was some qualification to entry. Why do I think that Mikeal is off form - he normally whips my butt good but today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 There is no Swedish grip Championship. The LGC competition has always been an open competition. I just don't see the benefit of excluding foreign, high calibre competitors. They seem to do pretty well in golf and tennis to give an example. Who gives the shit about the Swedish Championship in tennis (if there is one)? All the tennis tournaments that matters are the open ones. Having open competitions does not in itself exclude the process of qualifying for more international competitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 No - but not today and not for the European 2006. However, I would like some kind of definition so that we can take the steps needed to encourage competition and competitors and yet have a standard and some rules. If, for example, all competitiors wishing to compete in what would otherwise be regarded as a National event were from outside that countries borders then it can be as it is now. They will be 'guest lifters' and there records will stand but they cannot place in the event. If an event was looking like it wont be well supported by - using the worlds as an example - competitors who qualified by winning a national event then those that are allowed to compete and represent their country MUST (IMO) be of a set standard. You yourself have argued something on this level in the past. Surely it would have been farcical if competitors could only shut a CoC 1 or pinch just the apparatus at any of the standard agreed events of the last 12 months. On grippers I'd like to see a gripper rated as a 3 as the standard - leading hand. Or a 2-hnd total of 5 or above. On Pinch 60-kilos On V-Bar 120-kilos - either hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 In my view this discussion has nothing to do with rules for the individual events. These are standardised these days and adhered to by almost all organizers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamidon Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 I think it is silly to allow someone to compete as a guest. Is a world record capable of being set if the person has no ability to place in a contest? What concern does he have for taking safe attempts like in an actual competition if it will not be counted anyway? Take some monster shots at a WR and ignore safe attempts... This is a bad precedent. If you have people from other countries competing then the national ranking can be done by the finish position of those in that country. If Chad won the competition and the next 3 people were from the country involved then they should be #1,#2 and #3 for the national rank, but should not be considered the winner of the contest. It is really hard to understand how you can be beat by someone and yet be considered the winner. It makes your victory hollow. This sport is too small for turning possible competitors away. Those that do should be ashamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) Could not have agreed more. Records need to be set within a competition. Edited March 1, 2006 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 In my view this discussion has nothing to do with rules for the individual events. These are standardised these days and adhered to by almost all organizers. No discussion of the rules took place. I was suggesting a lifting of weight standard for qualification purposes. Not a rule change for how a lift is made. I think it is silly to allow someone to compete as a guest. Is a world record capable of being set if the person has no ability to place in a contest? What concern does he have for taking safe attempts like in an actual competition if it will not be counted anyway? Take some monster shots at a WR and ignore safe attempts... This is a bad precedent. If you have people from other countries competing then the national ranking can be done by the finish position of those in that country. If Chad won the competition and the next 3 people were from the country involved then they should be #1,#2 and #3 for the national rank, but should not be considered the winner of the contest. It is really hard to understand how you can be beat by someone and yet be considered the winner. It makes your victory hollow. This sport is too small for turning possible competitors away. Those that do should be ashamed. Agreed - but it needs to be decided which it hasn't - so I argued both for and against. A ranking system is a good idea. Could not have agreed more. Records need to be set within a competition. Ditto and we've all said as much 2x at least today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuTCH Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 So I see the problem of D.Hurzeler and T.Burggraaf who will perhaps compete alone if no foreign competitors will join the comp. But You guys should take this as a motivation to promote the sport more and more! How did you come up with this? Nor Swiss (as far as i know not in this thread) nor I, said it would be a problem. I just said Korte would not allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkhardmacht Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Not only was it a one off but you had to have placed in the top three in ANY other event. There was some qualification to entry. A much better option ist the CoC contest from David Horne! It's not really an open contest but the list of the potential competitors was long - and it'll get longer and longer over the years - so that's not the problem. Mob - I know that it's not an open contest - but like I've written: it's not the problem because of the reason I've mentioned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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