A New Approach To The Rolling Thunder

[FrankyBoy]

I accidently detected an older training plan of mine titled German Volume Training.

It was a plan to increase my benchpress results.

German Volume refers to (and sometimes called) a ten set method:

You do 10 sets with 10 reps of equal weight.

Usually the weight is about 60% of your 1 RM or you start with the 20 RM weight.

Between each set a pause of 60 - 90 secs is used. The reps itself will be performed

as an 1x2x1 exercise (1 sec lift, 2 secs hold, 1 sec drop).

I will train that way twice a week and will always start with a maximum test first.

This test however will have no influence of the weight used for the ten sets after-

wards.

If I'm able to do 10 reps in the last set I will increase the weight by about

5% for the next session.

I will try this for 6 weeks on the RT. Then I will take a one week pause and

continue with an advanced version of the GVT varying the used weight and the rep count as follows:

1. Week 10 sets with 6 reps using the (new) 12 RM weight

2. Week 10 sets with 5 reps using the weight of week 1 + 5%

3. Week 10 sets with 4 reps using the weight of week 2 + 5%

4. Week 10 sets with 5 ress using the weight of week 3

5. Week 10 sets with 4 reps using the weight of week 4 + 5%

6. Week 10 sets with 3 reps using the weight of week 5 + 5%

My 12 RM on the RT is currently 60kg.

So the plan would be:

1. Week : 10x6x60 kg (132lbs)

2. Week : 10x5x63 kg (139lbs)

3. Week : 10x4x66 kg (145lbs)

4. Week : 10x5x66 kg (145lbs)

5. Week : 10x4x69 kg (152lbs)

6. Week : 10x3x72,5 kg (160lbs)

However these numbers depend on the test I will do just after my one week pause.

The weights for the left and the right hand will be different, of course.

Training days will be thursday and sunday.

I will post my first impressions this evening.

[amaury]

I thought the GVT was meant to increase mass, not strength ???

But it will be all the more interesting to see your results, either in mass or strength

[FrankyBoy]

Hi Amaury,

thanks for your comment.

It's absolutely true that GVT at least in it's basic versions was originally

used to build up mass especially for weight lifters.

However the advanced version is more strength oriented, therefore

the increase in weights with lower reps.

I thought a bit more mass in my forearms would be nice first

Like you I'm curious what happens, it's just an idea.

[FrankyBoy]

Week 1: Thursday Workout

My formarms are : .

They feel and look like popeye's.

Started some deadlifts to get pumped up.

Here are the first results:

Max-Test:

Left : 62,5 kg (138 lbs)

Right : 70 kg (154 lbs)

So the 60% weights are :

Left 37,5 kg (83 lbs)

Right 42 kg (93 lbs)

The reps were:

left 10,10,10,9,8,6,5,4,6,0 (yes ZERO )

right 10,10,10,10,10,8,7,6,8,4

I switched to a 1x1x1x1 exercise (1 sec left, 1 sec hold, 1 sec release, 1 sec rest)

'cause I felt much more comfortable with this. Between the sets I paused for 80 secs so set + pause where 2 mins. Easy to control.

Classical GVT theory seems to remain true. In the 8th or 9th

set you will feel stronger due to a neural adaption.

I will try do update the following graph each workout with

the results of the entry maximum test.

80,0 ------

77,5 ------

75,0 ------

72,5 ------

70,0 ------r

67,5 ------

65,0 ------

62,5 ------l

60,0 ------

Workout 1

[Fedaykin01]

wow, Now thats a lot of volume. And a good idea too.

[FrankyBoy]

wow, Now thats a lot of volume. And a good idea too.

Thanks buddy!

[Jedd Johnson]

Man, I hate to sound contradictory, but it just seems to me you are working too far away from your 1 RM. Down the road all this low % RM lifting might pay off, but if I were you I would work a system combining microloading and deloading. These are tried-and-true methods for grip that I know a lot of people use.

I think the loads you describe would work eventually. I mean, Eventually after months or years of doing manual labor at 50% of maximum efforts, people get really strong hands and forearms, but they are working 5 days a week for 8 hours. It just doesn't seem like you are stressing your hands at a high enough effort range, to me.

Continue your method, but continue to test your 1 RM as well. Best of luck to you.

-Jedd-

[FrankyBoy]

Man, I hate to sound contradictory, but it just seems to me you are working too far away from your 1 RM.  Down the road all this low % RM lifting might pay off, but if I were you I would work a system combining microloading and deloading.  These are tried-and-true methods for grip that I know a lot of people use.

I think the loads you describe would work eventually.  I mean, Eventually after months or years of doing manual labor at 50% of maximum efforts, people get really strong hands and forearms, but they are working 5 days a week for 8 hours.  It just doesn't seem like you are stressing your hands at a high enough effort range, to me.

Continue your method, but continue to test your 1 RM as well.  Best of luck to you.

-Jedd-

Thanks Jedd!

I highly appreciate your input.

Maybe this program won't work for the RT.

However, since it's a short-term program of only 13 weeks

(including 1 week rest) it's not such a waste of time even if

there should be only little gain.

At least it's fun!

I'm full of expectations concerning the second half of

this GVT variation. This part should build up

strength. I must admit that it actually increases the RM for higher

rep-counts (8,10 or 12). So I really don't know what will happen

with my 1RM.

And believe me: There is a lot of stress for the hands. At least in the

later sets.

The 1RM tests before each workout will show us more.

[MIKE HALEY RILEY CLOE]

Frank, I know this not quite the same thing, but I had tried a similar method with grippers. I wanted to see what volume training might gain me (against all the threads and advice from a majority of board members), in my quest for the #3. I was doing workouts with #1 and the BBSA (left and right hand resp.) I would do sets of 25 with each hand , 3-5 sets in about 15 mins. I did this for about 2 weeks, probably not long enough, but it was not working. I got really good at closing grippers I had been closing for years, but the #3 went from about 1/8 of an inch, to, I swear barely parrallel! My forearms were maybe a little bigger, but not stronger. After taking a week off and going back on a couple of weeks of daily, multiple singles with #3, I am finally able to close it about 1 out of 3 tries. Any way I totally agree with what Jedd said, and like him I would keep an eye on your 1 rep max. Sorry about the ramble , good luck, and keep us posted, Mike

[EmEx]

I agree with Jedd and Mike. Use logic in your workouts! the body is like an intelligent machine it adjusts to whatever you throw at it if you do a lot of sets the body will get better at just that.....but to get a new PR that way will take much longer because the body will "waste energy" on building endurance too.

The best way therefore to increase your strenght is to spend as much energy as possible in the shortest time possible.

From my logic: Giving it your all and 100% in a single set will surely make you stronger.

[FrankyBoy]

Frank, I know this not quite the same thing, but I had tried a similar method with grippers. I wanted to see what volume training might gain me (against all the threads and advice from a majority of board members), in my quest for the #3. I was doing workouts with #1 and the BBSA (left and right hand resp.) I would do sets of 25 with each hand , 3-5 sets in about 15 mins. I did this for about 2 weeks, probably not long enough, but it was not working. I got really good at closing grippers I had been closing for years, but the #3 went from about 1/8 of an inch, to, I swear barely parrallel! My forearms were maybe a little bigger, but not stronger. After taking a week off and going back on a couple of weeks of daily, multiple singles with #3, I am finally able to close it about 1 out of 3 tries. Any way I totally agree with what Jedd said, and like him I would keep an eye on your 1 rep max. Sorry about the ramble , good luck, and keep us posted, Mike

Hi Mike,

your experience with grippers is really interesting and it's

a very good point.

Before KTA I did reps with the #1 til I could close the #2, did reps

with the #2 til the RB210 but then: no further significant gain.

With KTA and singles only I could close my #3, sometimes for

up to 3 reps.

I guess that for the beginner the training method isn't that important.

He will get stronger even if he uses a program with which an

more experienced athlet will loose strength.

I think mayn of us made this experience when we started bench

pressing: The 1RM goes up quite fast even if only 3 sets with 12 reps

are made.

Again: An evaluation of this GVT-variation is possible in a relative

short amount of time and the whole thing is an experiment.

Even if my 1RM decreases in the first 6 weeks I will stay on it

since I want to know what will happen in the advanced GVT.

An observation of the 1RM as you and Jedd had recommended will

be done of course.

After the GVT I will switch to a program with microloading as

you recommended and test that one.

[FrankyBoy]

I agree with Jedd and Mike. Use logic in your workouts! the body is like an intelligent machine it adjusts to whatever you throw at it if you do a lot of sets the body will get better at just that.....but to get a new PR that way will take much longer because the body will "waste energy" on building endurance too.

The best way therefore to increase your strenght is to spend as much energy as possible in the shortest time possible.

From my logic: Giving it your all and 100% in a single set will surely make you stronger.

Hi Emex,

well the logic:

I'm testing a program with which I had quite good results in

other areas like benchpressing.

If it works: fine.

If not: So at least I know that it doesn't work for me for the RT.

Another point:

A friend of mine got a trainings-schedule from a former world record holder

in power lifting of the states. Don't remember his name, sorry.

This program uses 8 sets:

The program is based on the 5RM and varys weight and rep-count.

The 100% refer to the 5RM weight.

1: 5x100%

2: 5x100%

3: 12x80%

4: 5x100%

5: 25x60%

6: 12x80%

7: 25x60%

8: 5x100%

I tested this about one year ago and it worked for me as for my friend

amazingly good. I boosted my 1RM of 100kg to 125kg in the benchpress

in only 8 weeks.

Actually I wanted to apply this program to the RT too after seeing the

results of the GVT.

Thanks for your input!

[FrankyBoy]

04/25/04

Day 2 of this experimental workout.

Since I felt quite sick, I actually didn't want to train today.

Then I kicked my ass and simply did it:

1RM-test:

Left: 65 kg (143lbs)

Right 72,5 kg (160lbs)

The rep-counts of the 10 sets were:

left :10,10,10,10,10,10,10,8,7,7

right:10,10,10,10,10,10,10,9,8,7

Didn't felt really good since my forearms still hurt from the training of

last thursday. Hope it'll get better in the next workout

Here the updated 1RM entry test.

80,0 ----------

77,5 ----------

75,0 ----------

72,5 ---------r

70,0 ------r---

67,5 ----------

65,0 ---------l

62,5 ------l---

60,0 ----------

Workout-1--2

Next training session will be on thursday 04/29/04.

[thomas straub]

Good job

[FrankyBoy]

Good job

Thanks!

[bencrush]

Nice log. How much do you weigh?

[FrankyBoy]

Nice log. How much do you weigh?

Hi bencrush,

Thanks!

Currently I'm weighing 84 kg (185lbs) at a body height of

185 cm (about 6 2", I guess) so I'm still rather slim.

However, I'm trying to gain weight right now.

My goal is to lift at least my bodyweight with the RT.

Since this is an issue for the RT-lift too:

Handsize is 7 1/2".

[Fedaykin01]

Am I correct in your 1RM with your right is 72.5 and left is 65? If so then You've already made significant gains w/ this program. Congrats.

[FrankyBoy]

Am I correct in your 1RM with your right is 72.5 and left is 65? If so then You've already made significant gains w/ this program. Congrats.

Thanks, yes you are right but my currently PBs are 65 lefty and 75 righty. This was in March under perfect conditions (females were watching ).

It was after a squat workout in my gym and I'm usually much stronger

in the grip area having done squats before.

Since I now doing grip training and gym training on different days I can't

estimate my PB undes these conditions.

On the other side, this is only my second workout. I guess we have

to wait at least another 2-3 weeks to see any results.

Whatever these results will be: I will fight through the whole

program.

A goal? 70 lefty and 80 righty would be a great success for me after the 13 weeks.

[Matt Van Weele]

Program looks interesting Frank. I would hate to have to do it on a exercise like squats.

[FrankyBoy]

Hi Matt,

it was reported that GVT actually works best for the legs

when compared it's efficiency to other body parts.

So give it a go!

I will start in about 2 or 3 weeks a GVT-cycle in my gym

(including squats of course).

[Matt76]

Franky nice log. I think I might start me a log up also with working with the RT. But won't look a thing like yours that is for sure

[FrankyBoy]

04/29/04

Day 3

Entry Test:

65 kg lefty (143 lbs)

75 kg righty (165 lbs)

Right hand felt really strong today, even 77,5 (171 lbs) broke off the floor.

Couldn't fully deadlift it.

Set counts were 10x10 for both hands.

Therefore in the next workout the used weight will be increased by

approximately 5%.

left 37,5 -> 39,25 kg (86,5 lbs)

right 42 -> 44 kg (97 lbs)

Here the updated graph for the 1RM entry tests.

80,0 -------------

77,5 -------------

75,0 ------------r

72,5 ---------r---

70,0 ------r------

67,5 -------------

65,0 ---------l--l

62,5 ------l------

60,0 -------------

Workout----1--2--3

Next training will be on sunday 05/02/04.

[burkhardmacht]

Hi Frank!

Your progress is impressive but did you lubricated your RT? I lubricated my RT and was shocked: I could not lift any longer 70kg righthanded!

Hope your progress will not be stopped by Caramba!

Keep on training!

B.

[Fedaykin01]

So it seems to be working huh?