Do Coc Grippers Loosen?

[Mikko Korhonen]

Do CoC grippers stay as tight as they are in new, or do they loosen. I am asking because i want to know when i slowly progress with grippers that it is really progress, not loosening of gripper.

[Matt Van Weele]

They will break in some. It depends how many reps you put on the thing. If you sit around and chest the cruch the damn thing all day with thousands of reps it should weaken quite a bit.

[JeffPeterson]

I'd say afer 100 reps not much will happen though.

[gotenmyoou]

I had my trainer for 7 years (I've closed more than 1,000 times.).

I don't feel any loosening.

[daniel_lidstrom]

I've trained on my no. 1 since july 2003 and I can say it surely feels a lot weaker than when I first tried it. Of course I have become stronger so I can't really tell if it is really weaker. One thing I do is give it to people who have never tried it before. If they can close it in the first try I know it has become weaker. Usually they can't though :-) My guess though, is that it has become just a little bit weaker.

[Ray Hansford]

I have the same test for my grippers they obviously feel weaker to me but when my friends try it they still cant close them so they are obviously holding on to their lbs rating very well.

[Mikael Siversson]

I have personally not noticed any weakening after the initial 100 reps or so. I have a 2002 #3 that has been closed several thousands of times. New #3's with the same handle width and depth of the spring have all felt just the same as the old #3 after the initial 100 reps.

[Cunny]

My #3 seems to be getting weaker.

[Mikael Siversson]

My standing pressing strength seems to be in a steady decline as I find it increasingly more difficult to press my oldest daughter to lockout over my head. Just to get the lift started is not as easy as it used to be when I was obviously stronger.

[Guest gripmaster316]

Yes they do loosen.

[Ray Hansford]

Yes they do loosen.

Nik, How do you know if they are loosening or you are stronger??

[HAMMERHEAD]

Enough!

crusher 2005: type "season" "seasoned" etc.. into the Search function; and before you do that spend some time on PDA's website. You'll learn a lot and probably find some equipment you want.

-HH

[Guest gripmaster316]

Have you seen my video, the #3 we have has been used by three obsessed grip brothers for the past 1.5 years, metal gets weaker after time right? Its not like its a terribly weak #3, but it has been around the block a few times.

Edited April 15, 2004 by gripmaster316

[Mikael Siversson]

.....yes they do loosen.

.....metal gets weaker after time right?

That's what I call good solid evidence. I was curious about exactly how you determined that they do in fact loosen significantly after the initial seasoning but you just answered all my questions.

[Guest gripmaster316]

No, no, my gripper has not gotten significantly weaker after its seasoning. My gripper right now is "seasoned" and I haven't noticed any more strength loss. When I meant that they loosen, I meant that they don't keep the same strength when you just recieve them. Next time I will be more specific.

Edited April 16, 2004 by gripmaster316

[3djim]

See the PDA web page. It specifically mentions "seasoning" or gripper fatigue as reported by spring manufacturers:

http://www.fractionalplates.com/cgibin/eda...&catalogno=9.15

[Lich]

The title of this topic was "do COC grippers loosen?", yet all the page references are pointing to some other types of grippers. WTF people?!

Read the book "Captains of Crush Grippers: What they are, and how to close them," by Randall Strossen, Joe Kinney, and Nathan Holle. Take notice that Joe Kinney closed the #4 in 1998. The book was written in 2003, and Joe's gripper was re-tested to quell some rumors that his gripper was not full strength, had been tampered with, etc...

...on page 31 it states very clearly that when Joe's gripper was re-tested it came in at full strength. Considering ironmind has put so much into perfecting their product, I believe that you can trust what Randall Strossen writes.

Besides, 1998 to 2003 is a span of 5 years. Even if the torsion spring does weaken after that 5 yr point, it is at a rate so miniscule that you would never even detect it. This is assuming you don't do things like bake your gripper in a kilm, or go deep sea diving with it in salt water.

So, given the title of this post, unless someone can counter all the scientific calibrations of Captains of Crush Grippers, then stop pondering this any further. If a different brand of grippers are known to weaken, then why the hell are you buying them in the first place?

[mobsterone]

CoC grippers season the same as others. Randall states in the book that they are now more accurate in their strength at the starting point - when u buy them - thant they were previously. If you're not sure buy one, squeeze it shut 40-50 times and see if it feels easier after a few months.

[Lich]

?

Then how is it that Joe's gripper tested in at the same resistance as it had 5 years prior to the writing of the book? That wouldn't make sense. If his gripper weakened, then it should have tested weaker.

By the way, since your on, is the millenium dumbbell adjustable, or what is it exactly, and why aren't you selling them on your site?

EDITED:

I do have the COC's up 1-4, and I haven't noticed anything except an increase in my strength.

Edited May 30, 2004 by Lich

[foggymountainmuscle]

I've filed my trainer before, and plan to file my other grippers. During the filing the gripper gets unbearably hot, even through leather gloves. I am carful not to close them while they are hot, I don't want to mess them up. Do any of you think theses exstreme temperature changes will weaken the grippers even without tampering?

[Lich]

?

Then how is it that Joe's gripper tested in at the same resistance as it had 5 years prior to the writing of the book? That wouldn't make sense. If his gripper weakened, then it should have tested weaker.

By the way, since your on, is the millenium dumbbell adjustable, or what is it exactly, and why aren't you selling them on your site?

EDITED:

I do have the COC's up 1-4, and I haven't noticed anything except an increase in my strength.

Still no answer to that one, or?

[AP]

...on page 31 it states very clearly that when Joe's gripper was re-tested it came in at full strength. Considering ironmind has put so much into perfecting their product, I believe that you can trust what Randall Strossen writes.

hahahaha

Dude, Randy's 'testing' method was probably just him squeezing it. 'Damn that's hard, just like 5 years ago!' Grippers season a little for the first few closes and then they are largely consistant. Some of my grippers seasoned a lot, some not as much. I think filing a gripper may make it season a bit again, perhaps because the spring goes through a new range of motion. Anyone else find this?

[Lich]

What hahaha?! What are you laughing about? And why do you and everyone who agrees with you try to create a drama or scandal about "seasoning" or "weakening" grippers when there isn't one.

First of all, as far as I know, Dr. Strossen hasn't closed the #4 COC, so for him to test it, like you claimed, is not even a valid point. Secondly, have you even read the book in question? If you have, then I refer you to page 48, the second paragraph:

Short of breakage, we have had people ask us if the strength of our grippers changes over time and with use, and we have to say that under normal operating conditions we have never observed any change, and the most knowledgeable people we have met in the field shared this feeling. However, if a gripper is taken past the tensil limit of the spring, the spring will deform, and this would result in the gripper being easier to close after the deformation, but we have never seen this happen to one of our grippers after normal use. Short of this, clicking out reps or even holding the gripper shut for hours should have no impact on either it's shape or the force required to close it.

If you read this book, you will see that one of the testing methods used is to place the gripper in a vice with the free handle on the top. Then, Ivanko plates are hung from the free handle until it touches the viced handle. This one type of test measures resistance to close the gripper in weight that we can readily use as a guage, as oppose to inch pounds or any funky torsion formulas. This is how Kinneys gripper was tested I am sure, on both occassions. And now, if you want to question the calibration of Ivanko plates... do I even need to go into that?

I have never experienced weakening of my COC grippers. Period. The COC grippers are well tested and again, if you read once in a while before you post, you will see that many people were involved in the COC gripper calibration and study... Warren Tetting, John Brookfield, Richard Sorin, Dr. Randall Strossen, J.B. Kinney, Bob Bollenbach, to name a few... This was not something that "oh, Randy just gave er a squeeze, pa."

That is COC grippers. As for other grippers I have no knowledge. But again, if you have a non COC gripper which weakens, then why not buy COC's? Unless someone can give me an intelligent reply to this, and not just some "oh I felt my gripper weaken" then forget it. You have no case. Go and do the Ivanko plate test, or, as Dr. Strossen himself says, send your COC gripper back to him to have it recalibrated. If it really is weak, maybe he will replace it.... but it won't be. And unless all those people involved in the testing and continued perfection of COC grippers recant all their documentation which has been compiled since 1990, then you will not convince me that the goddamn grippers "weaken". Maybe your perception is weakening... but your equipment is not.

So what's the next topic? Are the York Blobs getting lighter? It feels lighter since my first lift... must be getting lighter. Maybe it's also "weakening".

[AP]

Alright, nothing to get ornry about. Just take a step back and remember that you've only became a member here about a month ago. This has been discussed many times before. PDA says:

There’s another lesson learned to address – seasoning. We know from the spring suppliers that they expect a spring to get gradually weaker, then level out at 25-50 cycles. However, grippers are flexed beyond the conventional torsion spring design parameters. No big surprise since, after all, torsion springs were adapted for gripper use because they were affordable and available – they were not designed for grippers specifically. Torsion springs are simply a cost-effective application of existing low end hardware. >From what we have seen in testing the loss of gripper spring strength continues to occur beyond 50 cycles. It appears to level out somewhere closer to 75-85 cycles. If you pay attention during the seasoning process, you can literally feel the gripper 'fall away' at it's threshold. When we are asked for the optional seasoning, we use 100 cycles to assure the gripper becomes stabilized. A properly seasoned gripper will have the same closing torque in ten years as it does the day it is seasoned. We use a large, manual NutcrackerÔ press to solidly mount each gripper for the seasoning process.

How many grippers do you even own? I could compare the strength of my Master and my old 2 when I had just gotten it. Before, they were about equal, after it seasoned it is easier even now that its filed. The fact that you quoted Randy and his book is what I'm laughing at, it clearly pegs you as a newbie. Randy used to maintain that there wasn't even ANY deviation in the strength of grippers (ie all 3's are equal.) Randy never performed the test on Kinney's 4 years ago, I doubt he even did it recently. What the SAME vice? WHY didn't he test it on 2 different 3's and find out that they DO vary? You're an expert now that you've read this book, but its like reading about cigarettes in a book by Phillip Morris - Randy does all that he can to protect his Captain of Crush rankings. Lying, manipulating rules (for different people), turning down (some) witnesses but not giving a crap about others.

These aren't like weight plates man, the steel fatigues when the spring bends. You can feel it when you bend a nail, you can tell when you cmpare two old grippers, I'm sure you could even test it on a bathroom scale or in a vice. Fact is, Randy doesn't test all 4's when they go out the door, why would he have tested JK's? He doesn't test, never has.

[mobsterone]

A few points.

1) you wont always get the answer you want.

2) Don't presume Randall is completely honest or dishonest.

3) He may well pre fatigue the new grippers

4) I made mention of the guys here with 40 or more - they say they do weaken.

5) Do a search on Joe Kinney - at one point he was aid to have lost it, lent it to a friend and so on.

6) Randall doesn't state how Joe's gripper was tested and the methods he mentioned came from his catalogs, this site and PDA

7) He slags off PDA within a few pages then goes on to say that they may have a point

8) If flabbergastenpoopy all was wrong with the grippers why did they need changing/bettering

9) perhaps Joe's 4 was a bitch of a 4 and was tested and came within, after seasoning, the expected range.

10) PDA's reference comes from the spring companies themselves - so how does Randall do better - has he beaten spring companies at their own game - in which case there's a lot more money in springs than there is in grippers.

11) Why do you ask the 30+ CoC's that post here and the 100's of other would be 1, 2 and 3 CoC closers (a fairly big group) if the gripper weakens then argue it doesn't because of one mans word.