slazbob Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 There is a guy on the 3.5 list that absolutely barely swiped it and got it. This is silly. Perhaps because a ref was present for that one it was accepted by his word…but no way was it in there like yours. But rules change on the fly with Iron Mind… so I guess never mind what happened in the past. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchapman Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Strong close. This illustrates how Mash Monster certification is the gold standard. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuttgens Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Strong close man you nailed it. I can’t believe that was turned down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Cuk Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Having experience of being turned down 4 times by Ironmind Id say keep attempting it lol. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 23 minutes ago, Ivan Cuk said: Having experience of being turned down 4 times by Ironmind Id say keep attempting it lol. At least you live in the same country and on the same continent with IM headquarter If you lived in Europe, you would still be waiting for a 3rd gripper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 hours ago, slazbob said: There is a guy on the 3.5 list that absolutely barely swiped it and got it. This is silly. Perhaps because a ref was present for that one it was accepted by his word…but no way was it in there like yours. But rules change on the fly with Iron Mind… I know exactly who are you speaking about ) 2 hours ago, slazbob said: so I guess never mind what happened in the past. Thanks, I will definitely move on! 1 hour ago, jchapman said: Strong close. This illustrates how Mash Monster certification is the gold standard. Thank you! I absolutely agree with you. 47 minutes ago, Nuttgens said: Strong close man you nailed it. I can’t believe that was turned down. It is what it is Thank you for your support! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Grip Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) The worst part of this not getting approved is how long you held the handles shut! Great demonstration of crush strength! I agree with others that the MM is a great standard. But how do people feel about the GHP cert? The GHP cert seems very fair and well run. I like the idea of adding reps which I think is what GHP does. The width of the set block also seems more fair for smaller handed individuals. Always wondered why the GHP cert wasn't held in the same esteem as the IM cert maybe it's in part due to the much narrow requirements of the GHP cert? Personally I find there grippers harder to close vs the IM ones. Edited February 2, 2022 by Bigfoot Grip 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 I really don’t mind the ccs…I don’t have big hands but it’s a good standard. Why would I want it easier? You want that sense of accomplishment…at least I do…Even though I don’t need it. Iron Mind wants there to be no doubt that you could close it…even if you have to set it and hold it. It’s always a good idea not to rush it, and really be able to handle the toughest no.3 out there before you try. Some get lucky and get a easier no.3 instead of a 160! And just get the cert. you want it to be a coronation not a day of anxiety about getting something wide and hard! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonD Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Looked good to me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Conjugate Iron Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 21 hours ago, insane.warrior said: So wait.... They didn't like that you had to use the card twice? Or that it needs to go in deeper between the handles? To me it looked super clean with a perfect angle. My arms are so tight from lifting that I can't supinate my forearm that well. Very clean angle. Shame you have to wait 2 months. Taking the joy out of the whole process 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Pupchenko Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 20 hours ago, insane.warrior said: The answer was: "your attempt was unanimously turned down because you did not properly demonstrate a legal start—as we mentioned earlier, please don’t rush this step, but pause and show the card fits between the ends of the handles rather than brushing it through". I'm completely confused I have seen almost every official certification video available and most of them do not meet the criteria mentioned above. A person should always have an awareness of the truth that if you sit down to play cards with a cheater, then your chance of winning is less high than you think... I'm sorry that you have to remind yourself of this with such an example, Anar! All that remains for me to wish you - if you do not lose the desire to play the game according to these rules, is to return and do everything so that not an any judge would come up with an argument against!... In general, you know my opinion. Any other certification is more worth the time and effort than the one you chose. Once, more than 20 years ago, I sat down to play cards for money with a cheater. It took me one time to learn. Moreover, the lesson was such that I do not play cards not only with cheaters, not only for money, but I do not play cards at all. I made the same conclusion after my rich experience of communication with our overseas "friend". The second thing I would like to wish you - if it so happens that you can’t learn from someone else’s experience, then learn from your own for a minimum number of lessons. My example is when I needed several "lessons" (from the first memory, this is my attempt at certification, my attempt to hold competitions with fixing IM records on the SB, A1 armlifting championship, two World armlifting Championships in 2013 and 2014, and several armlifting Ukrainian Championships and Cup) - is a bad example. Conclusions should be made faster and more categorically. Life is not endless, as it seems to people your age. And it should be spent on more worthy deeds and goals! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 9 hours ago, Terry Conjugate Iron said: So wait.... They didn't like that you had to use the card twice? Or that it needs to go in deeper between the handles? No, I believe they are saying he rushed the card swipe and the corners flexed against the handles instead of clearly showing the card fit between the handles without flexing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Knowlton Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Look good to me .power is power 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Rule #4 for the IM cert says you are to wait for the referee to give a “start” command after observing a legal card swipe. With no referee present, did you receive instructions about exactly how to present a legal start beyond “don’t rush it”. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Cannon said: With no referee present, did you receive instructions about exactly how to present a legal start beyond “don’t rush it”. I relooked at your original post and I see it there. It cannot be “brushed through” but rather paused and shown to fit. Honestly I have to say that conflicts with many passed cert videos I have seen. No complaints, I just feel it’s confusing. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Conjugate Iron Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Cannon said: No, I believe they are saying he rushed the card swipe and the corners flexed against the handles instead of clearly showing the card fit between the handles without flexing. I get it now. Thanks Matt. I suppose it's in a way like any other attempt that is done for certification. Much like in a competition bench press where you're supposed to pause at the chest instead of bouncing it off. Speaking as a powerlifter 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 17 hours ago, Bigfoot Grip said: Always wondered why the GHP cert wasn't held in the same esteem as the IM cert maybe it's in part due to the much narrow requirements of the GHP cert? Personally I find there grippers harder to close vs the IM ones. Maybe the problem is that CoCs are way more popular than GHPs and it's easier to obtain CoC around the world. Another drawback is that GHP cert system has been built around the idea "gripster constantly competes against other gripsters in reps" BUT on different grippers. IM cert is a onetime event where you against the gripper. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, JasonD said: Looked good to me! Thank you Jason! 5 hours ago, John Knowlton said: Look good to me .power is power Thanks John! 14 hours ago, Terry Conjugate Iron said: So wait.... They didn't like that you had to use the card twice? Or that it needs to go in deeper between the handles? To me it looked super clean with a perfect angle. My arms are so tight from lifting that I can't supinate my forearm that well. Very clean angle. Shame you have to wait 2 months. Taking the joy out of the whole process Hi Terry! Taking the joy out of the whole process - absolutely. It's like an urgent problem which should be resolved asap, but you can't do much about it :)) Terrible feeling. I will add more detailed explanation today about the CoC cert rules which are not listed but used to judge certification. Sounds crazy, I know... Edited February 3, 2022 by insane.warrior 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 12 hours ago, Ivan Pupchenko said: I would like to wish you - if it so happens that you can’t learn from someone else’s experience, then learn from your own for a minimum number of lessons. I remember every single story you have told me. I am very thankful for that! They taught me to document and share my sport activities as fair as possible. So there would be no doubt about my accomplishments even though they were rejected by someones biased decision. I will achieve it sooner or later even if they don't want me to! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Conjugate Iron Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 20 minutes ago, insane.warrior said: Thank you Jason! Hi Terry! Taking the joy out of the whole process - absolutely. It's like an urgent problem which should be resolved asap, but you can't do much about it :)) Terrible feeling. I will add more detailed explanation today about the CoC cert rules which are not listed but used to judge certification. Sounds crazy, I know... Yeah please do. I'm definitely not at that level yet but most likely I'll be closing my 3s with a CNS in a year or two. So it's good if I prepare myself for all the little steps that need to be taken 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cannon said: relooked at your original post and I see it there. It cannot be “brushed through” but rather paused and shown to fit. Honestly I have to say that conflicts with many passed cert videos I have seen. No complaints, I just feel it’s confusing. Absolutely! Confusing! I was rewatching all certification videos since Paul Knight’s CoC 3 cert. And I was copying the manner of setting, swiping the card and closing from those attempts (the best one) :)) There is some another new criteria, but it not listed in rules 3 hours ago, Cannon said: With no referee present, did you receive instructions about exactly how to present a legal start beyond “don’t rush it”. Nobody does that on video cert neither did I. Edited February 3, 2022 by insane.warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, insane.warrior said: there would be no doubt about my accomplishments even though they were rejected by someones biased decision The strength of the close was obvious, and I don't think you have to worry that anyone isn't convinced. Why do you think that Ironmind would be biased against you? I do think they are very persnickety about the "rules," so maybe when they saw the credit card bending between the handles a little, and the swiping, they couldn't let themselves excuse that even though it was obviously -- at least at some point -- open wide enough and long enough and far enough between the handles that there was no danger you didn't close it from wide enough? Sometimes its not personal bias, but optics. Like, they are looking for the bending CC and the quick swipe as indicators of an insufficient attempt, and once they see that, they don't really consider that if they blocked that out they would still see a wide enough starting position? I'm just thinking it might be a neurotic confirmation bias (of the judge seeing the red flag bending and swiping, and thereby not considering the actual starting position was still wide enough), as opposed to an anti-you bias. I mean, unless there's history. Regardless, I respect the closes, and it looks to me like, bias or not, you are capable of a strong enough close that they will have to pass it. I am sorry for you, because of the hassle, and the wait, and the fact that you are probably stronger than half the people that already certed (including me). But if you want it you will get it, no doubt here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Vinnie said: Why do you think that Ironmind would be biased against you? Probably the word "biased" from my previous message sounded more harsh than I expected... Along with their decision they sent to me a video to show the clear technique that I should have followed. But the card was folding there too, the pause was a little longer. Then I rewatched another recent cert videos and understood that most of them was no better than mine based on clearness of swipe and pause. I was training hard to swipe the card - let it through between the handles as most gripsters did before me. I was standing in the same position for more than 3 seconds not moving. Swiped really deep 2 times, the card folded, the last swipe - clear credit card set. 3 seconds is a long pause, imho. 4 hours ago, Vinnie said: open wide enough and long enough and far enough between the handles that there was no danger you didn't close it from wide enough? I was in danger actually. I was not training for a wider set, as I told earlier, just the "right" width. And also I was accumulating all my mental energy to perform the close as powerful as possible. At the moment, I don't have that much power to shut CoC #3 anytime anywhere I want :)) What I can tell for sure, if the rules were explained properly on IM website with the photos / short videos, I would definitely follow them and train for them. 4 hours ago, Vinnie said: I mean, unless there's history. No story between us Edited February 3, 2022 by insane.warrior 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 13 minutes ago, insane.warrior said: I was in danger actually. I was not training for a wider set, as I told earlier, just the "right" width. My writing wasn't clear, sorry. I was trying to say that to me it DID look open wide enough and long enough, not that you needed it wider or longer. But that maybe, because of the bend and swipe, they were predisposed to judge no (even though you had it wide enough and long enough after the bend and the swipe). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Just now, Vinnie said: My writing wasn't clear, sorry. I was trying to say that to me it DID look open wide enough and long enough, not that you needed it wider or longer. But that maybe, because of the bend and swipe, they were predisposed to judge no (even though you had it wide enough and long enough after the bend and the swipe). Regardless, although I felt good to get the cert, and I think you will get it soon also and that it will feel good, it is just an imperfect process as most things in life are. Judging is subject to human error (and also bias if that was in play, sure), and the rules have changed over the years. But a 1998 cert from MMS and a 2015 CCS with a 160 and a 2021 CCS with a 142 are all the same once your name gets on the list. I hope you go for it again as soon as possible and I am sure you'll nail it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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