Who has lifted the INCH Dumbbell at Bodyweight or less?

[Jedd Johnson]

On 12/24/2020 at 11:10 PM, Mikael Siversson said:

Oh boy here we go again, the same old hand size vs body weight discussion. I trained and competed at a very lean and light bodyweight for my frame (74k at 6') for more than half a decade. My best in training with the axle was 139k (did 140 i competition) and I never missed a workout. I then decided to give the 83k class a go. One year later my best in training is 155k and I have not been below 150k for more than half a year. Did my hands get any larger?

Eric Milfeld gave the 74k class a go as well. His 2HP dropped by 10% whereas his axle was unchanged. My 2HP max dropped by 1%. Thus in both cases we were stronger at 83k but the weight change affected the axle in my case and the 2HP in Eric's case.

Your best on the Euro in competition in the 105k class is not quite as good as your best in the 120k class, which in turn is not quite as good as your best in the 120k+ class (the old record).

Is Kody's legacy your kryptonite because you seem uncomfortable every time I bring him up?

Speaking of Kody, his best on the axle in the 93k class is 182k but 170k in the 83k class.

Adam Glass' best axle performance in the 105k is higher than it is in the 93k.

The truth is bodyweight does matter when you go from lean to have a bit more fat/muscle on your frame. We have the stats to back this up.

Tanner would not do the things he does now if he had to drop down to 83k. He would still perform spectacularly but his poundage would be lower.

Invariably people wanting hand size divisions are ....... heavy guys.

You come up with the same handful of examples every time.

I want hand size divisions because it would be more fair across the board.

And Tanner would do just fine against Khaled, as long as it was a grip event.  Take out Axle, and the only thing Khaled has a giant advantage on going in is grippers, and I bet Tanner beats him on SB.

[Jedd Johnson]

On 12/25/2020 at 6:03 AM, Mikael Siversson said:

In all other strength sports they use weigh classes, not eg arm length vs torso length in the deadlift or total height lifted in the clean and jerk. Same with armwrestling where your body weight decides your division, not your hand size or forearm length or some other length variable. Strength sports have chosen weight classes for a reason. It's not perfect but it works better than any other alternative.

I am not the one with the odd position here but you are. I can envision the spectacle of hand size divisions with endless discussions on individual digit length, hand length vs actual wrap etc, etc. What a circus that would eventually turn into.

 

None of those sports are hand size dependent.  This one is.  That's why it should be hand size.

I'm not the only one who thinks there should be hand size categories.  I'm just the one who posts about it publicly.

 

[Tommy J.]

3 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

Heck, I am an accountant and I didn’t even think about that! I’ll let someone else do that. Good catch.

Edit, several hours later: couldn’t resist. It comes to $953.28 today.

Still, a good buy for the original!

[Mikael Siversson]

2 hours ago, Jedd Johnson said:

You come up with the same handful of examples every time.

I want hand size divisions because it would be more fair across the board.

And Tanner would do just fine against Khaled, as long as it was a grip event.  Take out Axle, and the only thing Khaled has a giant advantage on going in is grippers, and I bet Tanner beats him on SB.

Khaled is already ahead of Tanner (and everyone else) in Inch style dumbbells and he has trained his grip for like two or three months. Tanner had a great grip from get go because of genetics AND a climbing background. I don't even know what SB is lol. Btw Tanner is no longer competing in the 83k class or even the 93 kg class as he is packing it on. I am sure that has helped him to keep gaining in strength.

[Tommy J.]

2 hours ago, Jedd Johnson said:

You come up with the same handful of examples every time.

I want hand size divisions because it would be more fair across the board.

And Tanner would do just fine against Khaled, as long as it was a grip event.  Take out Axle, and the only thing Khaled has a giant advantage on going in is grippers, and I bet Tanner beats him on SB.

I’m not against hand size divisions. Specifically with thickbar more than any other event. The “fair bar” scenario Roark lined out some time back would be ideal imo. But am in agreement with Mikael that trying to accurately record hand sizes pre comp/post comp/for world records/whatever, would likely turn in to a circus. And could also likely add another factor that will disinterest possible new comers, or potential new promoters.

 

while I’m here I’d also like to mention that Tanners hands aren’t huge. Somewhere in the lower 8” category for overall length. Although he does have ideal hand anatomy for many events. Example of ideal hand anatomy would be thumb location/length. Tanner has that ideal thumb placement on the palm, and the ideal thumb length to go with it. In fact, his hands are so not big that if we divided things up by hand size, it would likely make Tanner stand out even more. And ATG would for sure stand out even more with hand size divisions! Adams hands are nearly identical to mine on length and thumb placement. Mine are 7-3/4” when stretched as hard as possible. Which should be raising some brows right about now for anyone reading when taking Adams thickbar prowess into consideration. I.E. 430+ axle, 200lb Inch DBs, etc. incredible.

Khaled's hands look huge on vid. Namely when he grips up with pullers it’s super noticeable. Khaled would be in your class Jedd. Along with guys like Brian Shaw (if he were to participate), Mike Burke, etc.

I’ve gripped up with Michael Todd a time or two. I wouldn’t say his hands are huge either, but he does have meatballs for hands. Super thick! I notice that Khaleds hand swallowed Michaels hands in every way when they gripped up. So Khaled has some monster mitts on him. No doubt.

[Mikael Siversson]

The thing is that we have the data to support the utility of weight classes. If we look at the most contested weight classes (83k, 93k and 105k) it is clear that the results are body weight dependant. In fact it works beautifully even in events where hand size is definitely a factor to some degree. To end up in the middle (#12-13) of the pack (top 25) on the 2.5'' Crusher it requires about 73k in the 83 k class, 81k in the 93k class and 86k in the 105k class.

In the one hand pinch with the flask we get (comparable calculation) 39.8k in the 83k class, 41.64k in the 93k class and 44.20k in the 105k class. Again it works beautifully.

You end up with strange conclusions if you base your case on outliers like Tanner.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Mikael Siversson

[Mikael Siversson]

It starts to break down once you get above 105k because of the rarity of very large framed, athletic (as opposed to a bit overweight) competitors is the heavier weight classes. You will find them in other sports.

[climber511]

A bigger man (muscular) should have the potential to be stronger than a smaller man in any strength sport - all else being equal.

Bigger hands should (do) offer an advantage in Grip Sport - especially on fat bar and wider pinch.  How to combine bigger hands to bigger bodies seems to be nearly impossible as to being fair in competition. 

A bigger man with bigger hands should have the potential to be better at grip sport than a smaller one with bigger hands generally speaking.  And disregarding outliers this proves true almost all the time.  

In my mind the really strong grips belong to people who won the genetic lottery and got favorable insertions across the involved joints and then trained the heck out of things - if it was possible to look inside hands and forearms I think that's what we would find when comparing people - regardless of other factors.  

 

[Alawadhi]

22 hours ago, Jedd Johnson said:

You come up with the same handful of examples every time.

I want hand size divisions because it would be more fair across the board.

And Tanner would do just fine against Khaled, as long as it was a grip event.  Take out Axle, and the only thing Khaled has a giant advantage on going in is grippers, and I bet Tanner beats him on SB.

You gave me ideas 

20 hours ago, Mikael Siversson said:

Khaled is already ahead of Tanner (and everyone else) in Inch style dumbbells and he has trained his grip for like two or three months. Tanner had a great grip from get go because of genetics AND a climbing background. I don't even know what SB is lol. Btw Tanner is no longer competing in the 83k class or even the 93 kg class as he is packing it on. I am sure that has helped him to keep gaining in strength.

I think he means the Silver Bullet

19 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

I’m not against hand size divisions. Specifically with thickbar more than any other event. The “fair bar” scenario Roark lined out some time back would be ideal imo. But am in agreement with Mikael that trying to accurately record hand sizes pre comp/post comp/for world records/whatever, would likely turn in to a circus. And could also likely add another factor that will disinterest possible new comers, or potential new promoters.

 

while I’m here I’d also like to mention that Tanners hands aren’t huge. Somewhere in the lower 8” category for overall length. Although he does have ideal hand anatomy for many events. Example of ideal hand anatomy would be thumb location/length. Tanner has that ideal thumb placement on the palm, and the ideal thumb length to go with it. In fact, his hands are so not big that if we divided things up by hand size, it would likely make Tanner stand out even more. And ATG would for sure stand out even more with hand size divisions! Adams hands are nearly identical to mine on length and thumb placement. Mine are 7-3/4” when stretched as hard as possible. Which should be raising some brows right about now for anyone reading when taking Adams thickbar prowess into consideration. I.E. 430+ axle, 200lb Inch DBs, etc. incredible.

Khaled's hands look huge on vid. Namely when he grips up with pullers it’s super noticeable. Khaled would be in your class Jedd. Along with guys like Brian Shaw (if he were to participate), Mike Burke, etc.

I’ve gripped up with Michael Todd a time or two. I wouldn’t say his hands are huge either, but he does have meatballs for hands. Super thick! I notice that Khaleds hand swallowed Michaels hands in every way when they gripped up. So Khaled has some monster mitts on him. No doubt.

I don't know Michael's hand size but for sure my hand size is bigger than his. And yes, they are thick. My left hand is like 19.85 CM so about 7.8". I already wrote about Khaleds hand size in my first topic on him. His are 9.1" and a span of 11.2".

19 hours ago, Mikael Siversson said:

It starts to break down once you get above 105k because of the rarity of very large framed, athletic (as opposed to a bit overweight) competitors is the heavier weight classes. You will find them in other sports.

I agree with you here Mikael. I prefer body weight over hand size. Even though I don't have large hands. We don't see short basketball players team and tall ones.

 

[Hubgeezer]

1 hour ago, Alawadhi said:

 

I missed the hand span the first time through. Mark Felix’s spread is 11”.

Khaled’s are 11.2?

Wow...

Edited December 27, 2020 by Hubgeezer

[Alawadhi]

I love how Bruce White holds the anvil and that grip implement with two hands. I showed Jedd on FB. 

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Alawadhi said:

I love how Bruce White holds the anvil and that grip implement with two hands. I showed Jedd on FB. 

Are you saying he used his off hand to help? Cause it does kind of look like the case in those pictures 

[Mikael Siversson]

5 hours ago, Alawadhi said:

I love how Bruce White holds the anvil and that grip implement with two hands. I showed Jedd on FB. 

The anvil lift might be right at his limit and he may or may not have supported if with his off hand. Its no different than anyone here posting a video of a lift where the off hand is kept very close to the object or assisting slightly because the lift is right at the limit. You are just speculating a bit apart from firmly establishing yourself as part of the small group of men with an ever lasting record of showing complete lack of class by trying to ridicule the legacy of one of the most respected grip legends of all time. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Mikael Siversson

[Alawadhi]

10 hours ago, Chez said:

Are you saying he used his off hand to help? Cause it does kind of look like the case in those pictures 

That's what it looks like.

8 hours ago, Mikael Siversson said:

The anvil lift might be right at his limit and he may or may not have supported if with his off hand. Its no different than anyone here posting a video of a lift where the off hand is kept very close to the object or assisting slightly because the lift is right at the limit. You are just speculating a bit apart from firmly establishing yourself as part of the small group of men with an ever lasting record of showing complete lack of class by trying to ridicule the legacy of one of the most respected grip legends of all time. 

Pictures don't lie. And Mikael you are master of justifying things and everyone knows that. Jedd saw it and LOVED it. Many others will. Jedd already believes Bruce braced the Inch against his thigh, so will I.

[Hubgeezer]

16 minutes ago, Alawadhi said:

That's what it looks like.

Pictures don't lie. And Mikael you are master of justifying things and everyone knows that. Jedd saw it and LOVED it. Many others will. Jedd already believes Bruce braced the Inch against his thigh, so will I.

Bader, you must be having a bad day. This is not like you. What am I talking about? Mikael has gotten under your skin I think.

”Everyone knows”...”Many others will”... “Jedd... Jedd”. Folks on this forum know how to speak for themselves, especially Jedd.

[Alawadhi]

3 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

Bader, you must be having a bad day. This is not like you. What am I talking about? Mikael has gotten under your skin I think.

”Everyone knows”...”Many others will”... “Jedd... Jedd”. Folks on this forum know how to speak for themselves, especially Jedd.

Lol I am having a good day actually. Pictures can't lie. His hands seem below the anvil and other implement. Explain that?

[DAVE101]

I bet his hands are below the implement in case of a drop so he doesn't crush his feet. Like Hubgeezer said, you had to hold pretty still for a hot second to get a good photo.

[Mikael Siversson]

I would also place my non-gripping hand just like Bruce did if I lifted a heavy anvil barefoot, just in case lol.

Bruce's slightly back leaning posture at lookout of eg the Inch is simply a result of the forward position of the centre of gravity during a pronated lift of a heavy and bulky dumbbell by a light lifter. This is something a heavy lifter will have difficulty envisioning. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Mikael Siversson

[Tommy J.]

No dog in the fight. I would like to point an elephant in the room out tho.

are there any other photos or videos or any other indicator that anyone as light as Bruce even held the inch “braced” for a still photo?.. if not, then Bruce still wins.

before anyone goes down that road, yes, I’m sure someone “could” cheat a photo. But in today’s times of cheater after cheater getting exposed, why has no one as light as Bruce, besides Bruce, taken a similar photo? If a 140lb guy cheating an inch lift for a pic is so easy, can someone his size or smaller please replicate?

 

jussayin’.

[Tommy J.]

Just now, Tommy J. said:

No dog in the fight. I would like to point an elephant in the room out tho.

are there any other photos or videos or any other indicator that anyone as light as Bruce even held the inch “braced” for a still photo?.. if not, then Bruce still wins.

before anyone goes down that road, yes, I’m sure someone “could” cheat a photo. But in today’s times of cheater after cheater getting exposed, why has no one as light as Bruce, besides Bruce, taken a similar photo? If a 140lb guy cheating an inch lift for a pic is so easy, can someone his size or smaller please replicate?

 

jussayin’.

Again, no dog in the fight. And I have no interest in defending Bruce. Also no interest in debunking him.

just seems obvious to me that even if he did brace it, no one his weight has done the same since.

[Climber028]

27 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Again, no dog in the fight. And I have no interest in defending Bruce. Also no interest in debunking him.

just seems obvious to me that even if he did brace it, no one his weight has done the same since.

Sort of with you here, the minor details are fun to argue but he's absolutely in the running for strongest pound for pound. There's no way you could leave out Bruce, Yves, and, Tanner for best grip strength to weight athletes. Who knows who's the best, but they're all at least in the conversation. 

[Billy Jack]

2 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Again, no dog in the fight. And I have no interest in defending Bruce. Also no interest in debunking him.

just seems obvious to me that even if he did brace it, no one his weight has done the same since.

Same here. No care one way or another for me. However, I am still not sure how, as Chris pointed out previously, that someone bracing an inch on their thigh for a still photo or holding the bottom of an anvil for a still photo equals that they did not lift it to that position when the person taking the photo witnessed it.  I have not seen the claim to yet be that he lifted and held the inch or heavy anvil for 8 seconds. If that was the claim then I would assume he could hold it long enough for a photo. Otherwise, he may have only braced it to make sure to give the person working the camera time to make sure they had a good shot. We have to remember that cameras were not digital 40-50 years ago.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Billy Jack

[Hubgeezer]

6 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Again, no dog in the fight. And I have no interest in defending Bruce. Also no interest in debunking him.

 

The fact that my brother is friends with a guy who took pictures of Bruce 50 years ago may cause me to "have a dog in the fight". But I really didn't get any vibe from him that told me anything, plus or minus. It caused me to be curious about Bruce. 

My being skeptical of "debunkers" of Bruce is the number of extremely respected and knowledgeable people, both from the long past (Peary Rader of Iron Man magazine), and guys like Nick McKinless and David Horne in the present. Both Nick and David are not the sort of fellows who are easily hornswoggled. 

And, it DOES matter what Bruce White deadlifted, as those numbers support that pound for pound, his strength level holds up to top lifters in the modern world. No one is disputing those. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Hubgeezer

[Tommy J.]

1 hour ago, Hubgeezer said:

The fact that my brother is friends with a guy who took pictures of Bruce 50 years ago may cause me to "have a dog in the fight". But I really didn't get any vibe from him that told me anything, plus or minus. It caused me to be curious about Bruce. 

My being skeptical of "debunkers" of Bruce is the number of extremely respected and knowledgeable people, both from the long past (Peary Rader of Iron Man magazine), and guys like Nick McKinless and David Horne in the present. Both Nick and David are not the sort of fellows who are easily hornswoggled. 

And, it DOES matter what Bruce deadlifted, as those numbers support that pound for pound, his strength level holds up to top lifters in the modern world. No one is disputing those. 

I agree. It does. Which is why I’m more leaning the direction that he did the grip feats he’s credited with. Unlikely that a guy who was genuinely so strong in other walks is gonna fake the  few feats he’s credited with. Not at all saying it’s not possible.. also not at all saying it can’t or wouldn’t happen.

just far less likely to cheat than a no name that’s seeking some form of validation.

also, I’m pretty sure no one gave a crap about grip strength back then. Not on the scale of today’s interest anyways. And grip is still small even with the decent publicity it gets these days. Imo, implying he cheated the grip feats is sort of on par with assuming an Olympic gold medalist didn't also do some sort of semi-impressive shit on the side as well.
 

It’s not like we are discussing a super heavyweight sumo wrestler claiming he ran a sub 4 minute mile. We’re discussing an already super strong lightweight weightlifter who’s lifted a few impressive objects with his hands to waist height. To me it’s not the end of the world even if he did brace. So what. All that means is that for a guy his size to out do him, he either needs to lift a heavier object while bracing, or lift the same object without bracing.  Boom. Done. It’s not like the guy set an unachievable benchmark. An impressive one? I think so. But if I’m being honest, I’m genuinely NOT overly impressed by BW feats unless the guy in question out lifts me in general.

That said, Bruce had a monster DL! THAT, I’m impressed with!

[Hubgeezer]

5 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

I agree. It does...

...

5 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

That said, Bruce had a monster DL! THAT, I’m impressed with!

Damn...you don’t sound like a gun-toting Texas Redneck...You sound more like an insightful observant philosopher. 

Seriously, very well said, you bring up some good points.