770 lb Raw Bench Press - New Record Again

[Chez]

24 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

I believe bury is legal in every federation as long as the bar comes to rest and doesn't dip further after the press command.  

Leg drive makes the bench easier.  Arching makes the bench easier.  Pinching shoulder blades to retract scapula and shorten range of motion makes the bench easier.  Lot's of things make the bench easier, but as long as they are within the rules, everyone that can is good to use them in my book..  Or do we only want to count feet up, flat back, pinkies on rings, 3 second pause lifts as good.

The one thing they really need to revisit is the arch rules. We are rewarding contortionist for 6 inch lifts. No one thought people would be able to bend in half backwards when the rules were made. 

[Mike Rinderle]

So... how long to 900 raw?

1898: 362 lbs - Hackenschmidt

1951: 501 lbs - Hepburn

1975: 607 - Reinhoudt

1997: 710 lbs - Henderson 

2020 or 21?: 800 - if Maddox stays injury free

Seems every 22 -24 years, so 900 by 2025?

[king crusher]

11 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Agree, lots of complaining in bench pressing but it's always done by people who are not near the lifts they complain about themselfs.

So you mean.....everyone on earth basically? 

Kirils record, people should watch it. Thays a proper pause. Julius is a strong bad ass but imo, it's not a proper pause. It's a rest pause. And it does make it easier.

[Mike Rinderle]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

The one thing they really need to revisit is the arch rules. We are rewarding contortionist for 6 inch lifts. No one thought people would be able to bend in half backwards when the rules were made. 

I agree, but how do you judge it?  It would have to be you can arch or you can't arch.  Can't have someone taking 15 seconds to measure arch during every attempt while the lifter waits for the start command 

I think it's here to stay.

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Mike Rinderle said:

I agree, but how do you judge it?  It would have to be you can arch or you can't arch.  Can't have someone taking 15 seconds to measure arch during every attempt while the lifter waits for the start command 

I think it's here to stay.

Ya, I thought about that. I think the only way would be the whole back has to stay in contact with the bench. Unfortunately, there is no going back now 

[Fist of Fury]

Nothing wrong with equipped powerlifting. It's not the equipment that is the problem. The problem is that when the equipment first was invented they never had a classic division. That was the big mistake they made. Now they have seperate divisions so there's really no problem. Equipped lifting is another sport. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

[Fist of Fury]

8 minutes ago, king crusher said:

So you mean.....everyone on earth basically? 

Kirils record, people should watch it. Thays a proper pause. Julius is a strong bad ass but imo, it's not a proper pause. It's a rest pause. And it does make it easier.

Yes everyone on earth for sure, if they can't understand the rules it's their own fault. 

[Mike Rinderle]

3 minutes ago, king crusher said:

So you mean.....everyone on earth basically? 

Kirils record, people should watch it. Thays a proper pause. Julius is a strong bad ass but imo, it's not a proper pause. It's a rest pause. And it does make it easier.

The pause is an imaginary rule.  No federation requires a pause.  The rules state the bar must come to a rest, at which point the press command is given.  Internet peeps invented the rule that a bench must be paused.  Oh, and the IPF / USAPL judges call it with a pause.  

Same applies to the mythical internet bro rule of going below parallel on squats.  Show me the rule that says you have to go below parallel.   As above, that's the way the IPF / USAPL judges them (unless it's Ray Williams), but that's not what the rule book says.

 

[king crusher]

5 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

The pause is an imaginary rule.  No federation requires a pause.  The rules state the bar must come to a rest, at which point the press command is given.  Internet peeps invented the rule that a bench must be paused.  Oh, and the IPF / USAPL judges call it with a pause.  

Same applies to the mythical internet bro rule of going below parallel on squats.  Show me the rule that says you have to go below parallel.   As above, that's the way the IPF / USAPL judges them (unless it's Ray Williams), but that's not what the rule book says.

 

So does it state anything about how that dead stop should be performed? Julius does a full on sunk rest pause, not unlike a box squat which is certainly easier than pausing in the hole on a squat. 

 

[Cannon]

1 minute ago, Mike Rinderle said:

The pause is an imaginary rule.  No federation requires a pause.  The rules state the bar must come to a rest, at which point the press command is given.  Internet peeps invented the rule that a bench must be paused.  Oh, and the IPF / USAPL judges call it with a pause.  

Same applies to the mythical internet bro rule of going below parallel on squats.  Show me the rule that says you have to go below parallel.   As above, that's the way the IPF / USAPL judges them (unless it's Ray Williams), but that's not what the rule book says.

 

Good points. 

Yeah on the squat it talks about: "Upon receiving the Chief Referee’s signal the lifter must bend the knees and lower the body until the top surface of the legs at the hip joint is lower than the top of the knees."  Nothing about parallel. And based on their graphic, quad height doesn't matter. 

[Cannon]

1 minute ago, king crusher said:

So does it state anything about how that dead stop should be performed? Julius does a full on sunk rest pause, not unlike a box squat which is certainly easier than pausing in the hole on a squat. 

 

There is no "up" command on squat so anything the lifter does at the bottom is a matter of their own preference. 

[king crusher]

Watch the view at 50sec

Compare this to julius. Imo this is a far better bench. Notice it does not sink into his body. Julius is morbidly obese,  and sinks the bar deep into his body. It does two things. He gets a small rest where his body is taking some of the weight and two, it allows an exaggerated pop off the bottom when used with leg drive.

Whether it's legal or not is besides the point. My point is that it is easier than the proper style Kiril used.

Edited March 9, 2020 by king crusher

[Fist of Fury]

12 minutes ago, king crusher said:

So does it state anything about how that dead stop should be performed? Julius does a full on sunk rest pause, not unlike a box squat which is certainly easier than pausing in the hole on a squat. 

 

So what? They aren't judged for how "easy" or "hard" their lift is, they are judged by how much weight they can lift, within the rules.

 

[king crusher]

Just now, Fist of Fury said:

So what? They aren't judged for how "easy" or "hard" their lift is, they are judged by how much weight they can lift, within the rules.

 

See my post above. 

[Fist of Fury]

2 minutes ago, king crusher said:

 

Compare this to julius. Imo this is a far better bench. Notice it does not sink into his body. Julius is morbidly obese,  and sinks the bar deep into his body. It does two things. He gets a small rest where his body is taking some of the weight and two, it allows an exaggerated pop off the bottom when used with leg drive.

Whether it's legal or not is besides the point. My point is that it is easier than the proper style Kiril used.

In my opinion it's nowhere near as good as Julius bench since he's not lifting nearly as much weight.

Luckliy that's also how they are judged.

[Mike Rinderle]

1 minute ago, Fist of Fury said:

So what? They aren't judged for how "easy" or "hard" their lift is, they are judged by how much weight they can lift, within the rules.

 

This!  Thank you!

At the end of the day Maddox benched over 30 lbs more than Kirill and got 3 white lights.  That is the ONLY thing that matters.

[Fist of Fury]

If I did 10 flawless reps with a #2 gripper, nobody in their right mind would view that as a better close than one ugly rep with a #3. 

For some reason this is not the case with bench pressing. I'm not just speaking to people in this thread. I've seen this on other places as well. People complaining about form, when it's not a form contest.

[king crusher]

Okay so when Julius performs a bench properly,  like kirill did, I'll agree with you. I'd bet my bottom dollar he won't hit 770 or mybe not even 739 like kirill did.

Until then we can agree to disagree.  No biggie

[hareboll]

4 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

If I did 10 flawless reps with a #2 gripper, nobody in their right mind would view that as a better close than one ugly rep with a #3. 

 

But you might view a strict TNS close of a 150 rated 3 better than a deep set ugly close of a 155.

For the record I'm with you that Julius's was better than anybody else's.  Its 770 for petes sake and it looked easy.  I'm just saying I don't think we can rule out any criticism.

[king crusher]

1 minute ago, hareboll said:

But you might view a strict TNS close of a 150 rated 3 better than a deep set ugly close of a 155.

For the record I'm with you that Julius's was better than anybody else's.  Its 770 for petes sake and it looked easy.  I'm just saying I don't think we can rule out any criticism.

This is a much more accurate analogy than the #2 vs #3 thing

[king crusher]

Spotos 722 record was done like Kirill, properly.  

https://youtu.be/xwzXjry6s6g

 

Yes, 722 and 738 are less than 770. 

Still doesnt change the fact that kirill and spoto properly performed the lift. 

 

Kirill and spoto videos have much higher like to dislikes vs julius' video too, not that that's the end all be all but it shows people are disliking his record at a much higher rate.

Edited March 9, 2020 by king crusher

[Cannon]

2 minutes ago, king crusher said:

This is a much more accurate analogy than the #2 vs #3 thing

Agree, but as Mike suggested, if we're all following previously established rules for the contest, and the deep set was judged a good legal close, then 155 wins despite added flair on the 150 TNS. 

I think that is the only point being made. Subjectively, yes, maybe Kirill's lift is "prettier" but not in a way that matters in the contest. 

[king crusher]

2 minutes ago, Cannon said:

Agree, but as Mike suggested, if we're all following previously established rules for the contest, and the deep set was judged a good legal close, then 155 wins despite added flair on the 150 TNS. 

I think that is the only point being made. Subjectively, yes, maybe Kirill's lift is "prettier" but not in a way that matters in the contest. 

I get the lift was passed, but I also get that a deep rest pause sunk bench is easier than a pause ON the chest, not IN the chest. 

The view of julius' record on his own page is taken from an angle that doesn't show how he sinks the bar, where as the two other aforementioned videos are close up and clear....hmmm wonder why lol

Edited March 9, 2020 by king crusher

[Cannon]

7 minutes ago, king crusher said:

I get the lift was passed, but I also get that a deep rest pause sunk bench is easier than a pause ON the chest, not IN the chest. 

Agree here too.  But remember no actual pause is required. The ref is only watching for halted bar movement and can give the press command the moment they determine the bar is still. 

And this is in the USAPL rules as a reason to disqualify a lift:  Heaving, or sinking the bar into the chest or abdominal area after it is motionless in such a way as to make the lift easier.

Julius' lift was sunk, but I guess not after it was motionless. He was probably walking a fine line there. The rules acknowledge heaving/sinking is easier I guess. 

[climber511]

I'm alway scared watching these big bench videos - it doesn't appear to me the spotters would be able to do all that much.  If I had almost 800# over my chest I'd want some great big burly dudes spotting - not a couple kids that are built more like I am.  If something really bad happened could those guys "catch" 400#?