Mike Rinderle Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I googled around and actually found some contest results from 06. I was not aware that Gary had entered a competition that was held in April 2006. http://www.davidhorn...06Contests.html . Though Gary won the competition I must say that I am far from impressed with the numbers. While I must admit that it might not be tasteful to downplay anyone's contest results, I however find it important since the rating system back then was not the same as today, and people might get the wrong idea about the difficulty of those bars were. Gary won the unbraced freestyle event biggest bar in under 2 minutes with a 290k bar (old rating system) Which would translate into somwehere between a 1/4 G5 and a 1/4 G8. Impressive how he just a year later would bend a 6"x3/8 303 stainless, a bar that is almost three times harder. Imagine going from a raw bench of 80 kg to a raw bench of 240kg in a year, after already having lifted for 4 years or so. I don't know about you guys, but that makes me suspicious. People have seen Gary bend, but unfortunately I have to be hard on Maxwell and say that he was a novice back then(still a novice today if you ask me, and I'm sure he would agree if you'd ask him). Doolash, unfortunately, appear to be a less impressive novice than Maxwell was back then judging by his bending results. People have sent him stuff in the past. But to be honest Jon, do you think it would be impossible to switch the stainless for some much weaker stainless or just some polished aluminum? I think it wouldn't be that hard for anyone with enough motivation. I'm afraid that the evidence is not enough. I need to hear specifically from someone like David Horne say that Gary bent this or that of similar difficulty. Maxwell could be a credible witness depending on the circumstances. If Maxwell says that he handed Gary a red nail or FBBC bastard or shiny or anything of the equivalent and saw Gary barehand it, then that would be strong evidence in Gary's favor. Maxwell watching Gary bend his own stock is not enough since Maxwell wouldn't have been able to controll the strength of those bars, as long as they were harder than a 1/4 grade 8. Unfortunately I have never heard or seen anything which I would call objective evidence speaking in Gary's favor. HOWEVER the lack of evidence does not mean that he is a fraud. It just means that unfortunately we can't obectively say for sure that he bent what he did, since it could've been faked. And I must say that if Gary in fact did bend those bars, it is a shame that he just didn't make the effort to prove it. He competed right before, and right after he was the strongest steel bender of all time. But for whatever reasons choosed not to, when it mattered the most. David, I am not trying to be antagonistic, as you know that I feel that we have become good friends over the years, and I still hold you in high esteem as the overall best steel bender on the planet in all styles unbraced and braced, but..... Although your response does make it appear that Gary's progress sounds fishy(and I know that you aren't necessarily accusing Gary), it's NOT impossible for Garry to have made a "quantum leap" in unbraced bending in a years time. For example, when I first started braced bending, David Hornes 24"x5/8" bend was number one in the world. Many speculated that it is not humanely possible to beat at the time. Shortly afterwards, I come along and tackle a 28" piece of 5/8". I bend it, but it takes me 45 minutes and three YouTube videos to complete. Fast forward 6 months and I am already bending sub 20" 5/8! A few months later, 18",17", 16", and eventually sub 15"@ 5/8". Nobody knew who I was, and I popped out of nowhere to become a decent braced bender I think. Fast forward to last years BITE competition. All I needed to bend was a 21" piece of 5/8". It was a warmup for me, but this is my only documented contest bend. At that time, I was putting huge kinks in 14"x5/8" steel! Fast forward to present times...after years of injuries I unfortunately had to retire from bending altogether. I never officially documented my 14.75"x5/8" complete bend on video. I never documented my 26"x3/4" midbar bend. Never documented my sub 30"x20mm bend. Did it happen???? You bet your ass it did!! Was it performed at a competition in front of well-versed steel benders?? No!! Unfortunately, for future generations it all may just end up urban legend. For me personally, I know what I bent and the feeling of accomplishing the task. Sometimes in life that's all that matters! -Carl Ansara Carl, we all saw how easy you bent that piece in the competition. It is not a stretch to believe you bent shorter. Your biggest gains came after just starting. David's point was, while not impossible, it would be strange to triple your ability in year 5 of training. You went to a comp and showed how dominant you were. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 For anyone to remotely believe Gary Hunt (Gazza) faked his bends has an axe to grind or is downright jealous! Gazza was light years ahead of everyone in bending. I've noticed very often once an individual is accomplishing something that no one else has even approached then it all the sudden becomes suspect. Not possible because my hero so and so can't even do that! Gazza's video evidence is some of the best out there! Period! I don't know why David just doesn't come out and say he doesn't believe Gazza's claims. Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel! Why don't you expend the same amount of energy on elevating your own bends as you have in trying to discredit Gazza and you may even surprise yourself David! Yeah! I'm being harsh here but this is ridiculous!!! Gazza was the BEST! Joe, I love your enthusiasm buddy. I would like to point out that it is widely accepted in the bending world that David Wigren is one of the best all around benders (DO, DU, reverse, braced, shoes) to ever walk the planet. I don't think he really needs to work to much on improving his own bends. Look, nobody is saying Gary faked anything. There will be people that take his youtube bends as proof enough and those that question them. I think what Wiggy was trying to point out was that it would have been great to have him bend a really hard bar in a contest or with David. Then there would never be any doubt. Much like there will always be people that doubt Joe Kinney closed a legit #4 because he never closed it in front of a knowledgable witness. That doesn't mean he didn't do it, only that it would have been really cool if he did so that nobody could have any doubts. Also, I would like to say that when somebody accomplishes something nobody else has approached in any other field but grip or bending they are usually required to offer concrete proof before their scientific, athletic, etc claims are widely accepted. Unfortunately I have run into at least 4 known feat cheaters that have been found out in just the last couple years (not Gary). Their videos were just as solid looking as mine, Wiggy's or Gary's. Unfortunately it is really easy to fake a bending video. A 3/8 piece of polished aluminum looks just like stainless, is not magnetic, bends with the same radius. I can bend 5/16 HRS barehanded. It wouldn't have been hard for me to grind the ends so it looked just like one of the old super hard black bastards and "reversed a 510 lb bar on video!" So while I take nothing away from Gary or any of his incredible bends, I think it deserves note that he never did them or anything remotely close to them in competition or in front of a very knowledgable bender. Allthough EJ Livesly came within a 1/4" of passing that with a sick piece of drill rod at this year's national championships. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) For anyone to remotely believe Gary Hunt (Gazza) faked his bends has an axe to grind or is downright jealous! Gazza was light years ahead of everyone in bending. I've noticed very often once an individual is accomplishing something that no one else has even approached then it all the sudden becomes suspect. Not possible because my hero so and so can't even do that! Gazza's video evidence is some of the best out there! Period! I don't know why David just doesn't come out and say he doesn't believe Gazza's claims. Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel! Why don't you expend the same amount of energy on elevating your own bends as you have in trying to discredit Gazza and you may even surprise yourself David! Yeah! I'm being harsh here but this is ridiculous!!! Gazza was the BEST! Joe, I find it sad that you would write this post in this matter - I've not read all of your posts but you come across as a man who requires evidence to base his conclusions on. David clearly thinks the evidence presented is not enough - many agree. Do I believe Gazza did those bends? No, not on the evidence provided. Same for Kinney and his #4 close, Anderson and his safe lift, Goerner and his one hand deadlift etc etc. Does my scepticism means that none of those men did what was claimed? Absolutely not!! I hope Gary Hunt sees this and responds - not with an incoherent post telling us all to go to hell but by actually answering David and either providing clarification or providing further proof. Best of all would be a return to SuperBender levels, but such may of course be no longer possible due to injury etc. All course, this would assume that Gary even cares about his place in the "Bending Patheon" - if he doesn't that's fine, but neither he nor anyone else should be suprised if it isn't as high as it could otherwise be. Edit for Spelling. Edited June 28, 2012 by The Mac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I am going to be blunt. There is nothing about Gazzas bends that should cast any doubt over him except for petty jealousy. Lets all remember that Gary was questioned and insulted here before, by Pat Povilaitis and Dave Lemanczyk and a few others and he went on a bending rampage, first posting a Double Overhand in single wraps bend of a piece of 3/8" x 7" stainless, which he never claimed was FBBC stock. Moving over some time, more drama, more of him being called a fake and a fraud, Tim Tolbert sent Gary some FBBC cert stock which was well packaged up with the main pieces in little envelops with what I can only imagine was Tim Tolbert's signature, which Gary then opened on Camera and proceeded to bend. Those videos are posted here in this thread and you have seen them before. I don't know what more proof do you want? British Soldiers holding rifles to him in case there is any trickery? One must also mention the fact that not only are you calling into question Gary by saying you only give him credit for bending a six inch shiny bastard when he clearly bent a KOASB on video out of a package sent across the sea in plain view of the camera, you are questioning the legitimacy of every bend on the FBBC cert list and Tim Tolbert himself. So where does it end? He did that to prove something to all the people who called him a fake in the past, why should he have had to go through it again? Especially with major injuries to his wrists over the years, to people who obviously acted like his friend to him on boards but spewed venom about him in private amongst themselves. And I can guarantee you that Gary doesn't give a damn about bending, grip or what people think of him anymore. He is content in what he is doing now. If he wasn't my friend and wasn't being insulted by people who he once considered his friends, I wouldn't care either. How many of you guys got inspiration from him when you first started bending? How many of you got advice from him when you picked up a pair of wraps? Seriously, this is ridiculous. I think Garys bends were all legit, he had a mental edge that no one else here has, with anything. The dude was unique and sometimes someone comes along who has every advantage into doing one thing great, he found his, Wayne Gretzky found his, Michael Jordan found his, Brett Favre and Benedikt Magnusson found theirs. Benni broke his back when he was younger in a skiing accident and used deadlifts to build it up and it just so happened that he ended up becoming the greatest deadlifter to ever live. I don't see why it is so hard to believe that a 180 pound dude from the Wirral could be the best at bending pieces of steel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredgrip Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Hi everyone Im gazza or Gary or whatever people want to call me im not trolling this is my son in laws account and i cant be bothered going through the process of contacting Bill and getting my old profile or whatever it is sorted Im so glad that bending is now more popular than it ever was as its a fantastic sport/hobby/passion. Theres lots of stress and negativety in this thread and surrounding me always has been seriously im not worth all this stress and anger im just a man who once had a passion for something my passion now is photography and my grandsons and familly. I got into lots and lots of internet battles over the years and also behind the scenes i was a little wild some say nuts back then,im much more happier with myself now ive just started a new job and its the best job ive ever had im lucky now as i have my health and my familly around me and a great hobby in photography. Wether/or what i bent doesnt really matter its just pieces of steel move on i have and if some people dont want/like my name on certain lists then thats cool i will ask Bill or Eric or whoever to remove it simple as that its no biggey just a few pieces of steel that according to people may or may not have been bent,the world will still keep turning and we will all have to make a decision to come onto internet forums and battle with others or just let it go i would rather let it all go really a bunch of gents arguing over pieces of steel,i would rather just come on here time allowing and read about the next grip feat or see someone destroying a piece of steel or crushing a gripper. As you can see my grammar is still rubbish but who really cares i dont lifes more important. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorGrip Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Glad to hear you are doing well Gary, God speed on you reaching your new goals...May God continue to bless you and your family! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Great to hear that you are doing well Gary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightyjoe Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I just want to say I'm pleased to hear from Gazza! I would like to clarify a couple of points for Mike R. and The Mac because i think very highly of both of these individuals. We are talking video evidence here. We are not talking about Gazza's personality, past, contests, eye witnesses, etc... What I'm standing by is this, "The video evidence that Gazza presented in his video feats is the Best I have ever seen". We are either going to except video feats or we are not! Agreed? If not, we shouldn't even be having this discussion. If yes, then please point out in detail what leads you to believe that any of his bends are not credible? I'm not attacking individuals here! Yes, I'm a huge believer in sound evidence involving any feat beyond ordinary! So if I'm going to accept video demonstrations then I have to accept certain criteria to judge rather or not I believe it's sufficient or not. I can't think of what more Gazza could have done to give better evidence. I also find it intriquing that what evidence he did present wouldn't be at all questioned by bends from other well known individuals. Seems to me people can't accept that there's others out there that are above and beyond us mortals. Based on Gazza's video evidence, I believe he's one of these individuals. Now, I would like to hear Mac, David W, and Mike R. answers to my question: Do you accept video evidence or not? If you do, please point out specifically what would lead you to believe that his bends were not legit. Lastly, just because it's hard to accept someone could be that STRONG doesn't make it impossible. One of the things as extraordinary as Gazza's bends themselves was his speed of progression. Again, from the videos he presented I can't find a reason to label them as not legit. My main disappointment here is that there seems to be a double standard for evidence. If your feat is near superhuman I have to see it in person. If your feat is right there with the current best then video evidence is sufficient. DO WE ACCEPT VIDEO EVIDENCE OR NOT??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 This thread is not going anywhere lol I think we really need to understand how easy it would be to fake Gazza's bends on video. Could anyone try to replicate Gary's videos so that we can compare the results ? A few suggestions have already been made: bake the steel for a long time, use polished aluminium etc Let's see what the result looks like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellfire Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Joe- I believe with the progression and increased popularity of steel bending that accepting video proof is a must. We have guys in every corner of the globe bending steel and posting videos, there was even a vid not too long ago of an up and coming steel bender killing a Red in front of the pyramids in Egypt...cool vid if you run across it. Anyway, my point is, video is really all we have at this point. Some guys will make the effort to attend a comp here and there, but it isn't practical for most. That being said, video has it's limits. Mike K, and others before him have rated the yield strength of different bars, bolts, steel, etc., and that goes a long way to elevating the credibility of any claim made in a video, if the claim being made is in reference to the difficulty of the bar being bent. Video will always have it's limits and I think that's why they are so scrutinized. One must try to provide the best documentation possible to eliminate as many doubts as he can....that being said, it can be tremendously difficult to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Joe, For bending, I wouldn't accept video evidence alone, no. Double standards for exceptional feats is the norm. If you tell me you bench 100kg do I need to see evidence? No. If you tell me you bench 300kg I might ask for proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightyjoe Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Joe- I believe with the progression and increased popularity of steel bending that accepting video proof is a must. We have guys in every corner of the globe bending steel and posting videos, there was even a vid not too long ago of an up and coming steel bender killing a Red in front of the pyramids in Egypt...cool vid if you run across it. Anyway, my point is, video is really all we have at this point. Some guys will make the effort to attend a comp here and there, but it isn't practical for most. That being said, video has it's limits. Mike K, and others before him have rated the yield strength of different bars, bolts, steel, etc., and that goes a long way to elevating the credibility of any claim made in a video, if the claim being made is in reference to the difficulty of the bar being bent. Video will always have it's limits and I think that's why they are so scrutinized. One must try to provide the best documentation possible to eliminate as many doubts as he can....that being said, it can be tremendously difficult to do so. Andy, I appreciate your kind response sir! You made some excellent points here and your last statement pretty much sums up what I'm getting at here. Gazza's video evidence was as good as I've seen. His credibility at the time of these feats was not in question that I'm aware of. In my estimation it appears that now that Gazza has stepped down from bending someone is wanting to take his place but the only problem is they can't duplicate his feats so the thing to do is to start discrediting the person and in a indirect way their feats and then take the King's Seat by default. I see this a lot in the strength world. Couple of things and I'll rest my case and leave this topic alone: 1) Why was this not brought up when Gazza was doing his thing? No one said anything of the sort except begged for more! 2) As a comparison, Nathan Holle recently closed a GHP9 hand gripper and the evidence was a video that met a certain criteria and that criteria was indeed met and the close has been accepted. I see no one that closes BIG grippers doubting Nathan's feat (or least not yet), why? The answer in my opinion is credibility of the individual and his known accounts of past performances with grippers. Same with Gazza at the time he was performing these colossal bends! At the time his credibility seemed fine. Now that his spot is open for the taking his feats are all the sudden possible fakes. if this was brought before a jury in a legal case of circumstantial evidence, IMO I believe the jury would see this as a case of jealousy and envy. This is not about how good David W. or any other elite bender is. It's about video as proof of a given claim. Until someone can point out specific details as to why Gazza's bends were not legit or faked, I find his video evidence as compelling as any I've seen to date. As of current, I still believe and hold to the opinion that Gazza was the BEST Bender of ALL TIME!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightyjoe Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I am going to be blunt. There is nothing about Gazzas bends that should cast any doubt over him except for petty jealousy. Lets all remember that Gary was questioned and insulted here before, by Pat Povilaitis and Dave Lemanczyk and a few others and he went on a bending rampage, first posting a Double Overhand in single wraps bend of a piece of 3/8" x 7" stainless, which he never claimed was FBBC stock. Moving over some time, more drama, more of him being called a fake and a fraud, Tim Tolbert sent Gary some FBBC cert stock which was well packaged up with the main pieces in little envelops with what I can only imagine was Tim Tolbert's signature, which Gary then opened on Camera and proceeded to bend. Those videos are posted here in this thread and you have seen them before. I don't know what more proof do you want? British Soldiers holding rifles to him in case there is any trickery? One must also mention the fact that not only are you calling into question Gary by saying you only give him credit for bending a six inch shiny bastard when he clearly bent a KOASB on video out of a package sent across the sea in plain view of the camera, you are questioning the legitimacy of every bend on the FBBC cert list and Tim Tolbert himself. So where does it end? He did that to prove something to all the people who called him a fake in the past, why should he have had to go through it again? Especially with major injuries to his wrists over the years, to people who obviously acted like his friend to him on boards but spewed venom about him in private amongst themselves. And I can guarantee you that Gary doesn't give a damn about bending, grip or what people think of him anymore. He is content in what he is doing now. If he wasn't my friend and wasn't being insulted by people who he once considered his friends, I wouldn't care either. How many of you guys got inspiration from him when you first started bending? How many of you got advice from him when you picked up a pair of wraps? Seriously, this is ridiculous. I think Garys bends were all legit, he had a mental edge that no one else here has, with anything. The dude was unique and sometimes someone comes along who has every advantage into doing one thing great, he found his, Wayne Gretzky found his, Michael Jordan found his, Brett Favre and Benedikt Magnusson found theirs. Benni broke his back when he was younger in a skiing accident and used deadlifts to build it up and it just so happened that he ended up becoming the greatest deadlifter to ever live. I don't see why it is so hard to believe that a 180 pound dude from the Wirral could be the best at bending pieces of steel. WELL SAID!!! Not many people know that Benny broke his back BTW! He shared that story with me when we talked before his deadlifting seminar in Arlington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yummy Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Joe- I believe with the progression and increased popularity of steel bending that accepting video proof is a must. We have guys in every corner of the globe bending steel and posting videos, there was even a vid not too long ago of an up and coming steel bender killing a Red in front of the pyramids in Egypt...cool vid if you run across it. Anyway, my point is, video is really all we have at this point. Some guys will make the effort to attend a comp here and there, but it isn't practical for most. That being said, video has it's limits. Mike K, and others before him have rated the yield strength of different bars, bolts, steel, etc., and that goes a long way to elevating the credibility of any claim made in a video, if the claim being made is in reference to the difficulty of the bar being bent. Video will always have it's limits and I think that's why they are so scrutinized. One must try to provide the best documentation possible to eliminate as many doubts as he can....that being said, it can be tremendously difficult to do so. Andy, I appreciate your kind response sir! You made some excellent points here and your last statement pretty much sums up what I'm getting at here. Gazza's video evidence was as good as I've seen. His credibility at the time of these feats was not in question that I'm aware of. In my estimation it appears that now that Gazza has stepped down from bending someone is wanting to take his place but the only problem is they can't duplicate his feats so the thing to do is to start discrediting the person and in a indirect way their feats and then take the King's Seat by default. I see this a lot in the strength world. Couple of things and I'll rest my case and leave this topic alone: 1) Why was this not brought up when Gazza was doing his thing? No one said anything of the sort except begged for more! 2) As a comparison, Nathan Holle recently closed a GHP9 hand gripper and the evidence was a video that met a certain criteria and that criteria was indeed met and the close has been accepted. I see no one that closes BIG grippers doubting Nathan's feat (or least not yet), why? The answer in my opinion is credibility of the individual and his known accounts of past performances with grippers. Same with Gazza at the time he was performing these colossal bends! At the time his credibility seemed fine. Now that his spot is open for the taking his feats are all the sudden possible fakes. if this was brought before a jury in a legal case of circumstantial evidence, IMO I believe the jury would see this as a case of jealousy and envy. This is not about how good David W. or any other elite bender is. It's about video as proof of a given claim. Until someone can point out specific details as to why Gazza's bends were not legit or faked, I find his video evidence as compelling as any I've seen to date. As of current, I still believe and hold to the opinion that Gazza was the BEST Bender of ALL TIME!!! I don't disagree with you 100% yet I believe many people did bring this up when gazza was bending. Also david brought up some good points on how you can fake videos and his freakish progress along with weaker success in contests around his prime. Obviously its still possible he did them yet david did bring up good points. You don't see nathan getting questioned because he is a coc#4 closer where you have to close a brand new #4 out of package in front of a judge so we know he has the strength. Also there are several guys who are very close to his level right now unlike gazza who was well beyond what anyone has still been able to do. In a court of law their is a lot of reasonable doubt on what he did. I think we should hold contest lifts as the most legitimate. Does it mean if someone on youtube deadlifted more then what bennie could do that he is not strong? No yet I still would consider bennie the best because he proved it beyond all reasonable doubt in a contest. With that said I think aaron has the #1 bend in contest so I would consider him the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Joe- I believe with the progression and increased popularity of steel bending that accepting video proof is a must. We have guys in every corner of the globe bending steel and posting videos, there was even a vid not too long ago of an up and coming steel bender killing a Red in front of the pyramids in Egypt...cool vid if you run across it. Anyway, my point is, video is really all we have at this point. Some guys will make the effort to attend a comp here and there, but it isn't practical for most. That being said, video has it's limits. Mike K, and others before him have rated the yield strength of different bars, bolts, steel, etc., and that goes a long way to elevating the credibility of any claim made in a video, if the claim being made is in reference to the difficulty of the bar being bent. Video will always have it's limits and I think that's why they are so scrutinized. One must try to provide the best documentation possible to eliminate as many doubts as he can....that being said, it can be tremendously difficult to do so. Andy, I appreciate your kind response sir! You made some excellent points here and your last statement pretty much sums up what I'm getting at here. Gazza's video evidence was as good as I've seen. His credibility at the time of these feats was not in question that I'm aware of. In my estimation it appears that now that Gazza has stepped down from bending someone is wanting to take his place but the only problem is they can't duplicate his feats so the thing to do is to start discrediting the person and in a indirect way their feats and then take the King's Seat by default. I see this a lot in the strength world. Couple of things and I'll rest my case and leave this topic alone: 1) Why was this not brought up when Gazza was doing his thing? No one said anything of the sort except begged for more! 2) As a comparison, Nathan Holle recently closed a GHP9 hand gripper and the evidence was a video that met a certain criteria and that criteria was indeed met and the close has been accepted. I see no one that closes BIG grippers doubting Nathan's feat (or least not yet), why? The answer in my opinion is credibility of the individual and his known accounts of past performances with grippers. Same with Gazza at the time he was performing these colossal bends! At the time his credibility seemed fine. Now that his spot is open for the taking his feats are all the sudden possible fakes. if this was brought before a jury in a legal case of circumstantial evidence, IMO I believe the jury would see this as a case of jealousy and envy. This is not about how good David W. or any other elite bender is. It's about video as proof of a given claim. Until someone can point out specific details as to why Gazza's bends were not legit or faked, I find his video evidence as compelling as any I've seen to date. As of current, I still believe and hold to the opinion that Gazza was the BEST Bender of ALL TIME!!! Exactly Joe, especially on point one. Gary was questioned before and had someone send him stock from the US, he opened it and bent it on video measuring it, using an electric caliper and showing it was stainless, yet the doubters have totally ignored my points on that, and have not only called Gary a fraud but also questioned Tim Tolberts honesty in a sense. Gary has been through it before and after a while, a man with integrity will eventually get fed up. Like Gary himself said, it is past him now and he doesn't care what people think. I respect this and his decision to be more involved with his family. What man wouldn't? The point you make is very important, the same people questioning him now are people who never did before, why not then, why now? People can beat around the bush with their words but anyone here with an IQ higher than that of a brick knows what is going on. People who want to be considered number one but cannot see themselves matching his feats will definitely try to undermine his accomplishments. It is easy to challenge someone or question them when you know that they are now beyond their best, more so when you know they have walked away from it. Imagine how silly it would be for Lebron James to challenge Michael Jordan to a game of one on one to decide who is best, with Michael well past his prime and with various knee injuries. Gary had injuries to his wrists, from work, and mountain biking, and bending. In his day he followed the same protocols for proving bends were not fake that everyone else did in his bending prime, and for anyone to question him is ridiculous. When someone sends you stock and you bend it on film following every possible protocol to prove it is legit, what more do you want? Ignore the bare hand bends, I still dont know of anyone who has bent a BKOASB in single suede wraps, and to me even if people want to believe all his other bends were fake, that one is still numero uno. What is next? Will people question Slim The Hammermans legitimacy in levering hammers after he passes away because he did not compete in a competition where levering was an event? It will be easy then and I am sure someone will do it. I must also say that I do hope that Slim lives for many more years in good health and happiness. I do not want this post to be taken as disrespectful to Slim, because it is not meant in any way shape or form to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellfire Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Joe- I believe with the progression and increased popularity of steel bending that accepting video proof is a must. We have guys in every corner of the globe bending steel and posting videos, there was even a vid not too long ago of an up and coming steel bender killing a Red in front of the pyramids in Egypt...cool vid if you run across it. Anyway, my point is, video is really all we have at this point. Some guys will make the effort to attend a comp here and there, but it isn't practical for most. That being said, video has it's limits. Mike K, and others before him have rated the yield strength of different bars, bolts, steel, etc., and that goes a long way to elevating the credibility of any claim made in a video, if the claim being made is in reference to the difficulty of the bar being bent. Video will always have it's limits and I think that's why they are so scrutinized. One must try to provide the best documentation possible to eliminate as many doubts as he can....that being said, it can be tremendously difficult to do so. Andy, I appreciate your kind response sir! You made some excellent points here and your last statement pretty much sums up what I'm getting at here. Gazza's video evidence was as good as I've seen. His credibility at the time of these feats was not in question that I'm aware of. In my estimation it appears that now that Gazza has stepped down from bending someone is wanting to take his place but the only problem is they can't duplicate his feats so the thing to do is to start discrediting the person and in a indirect way their feats and then take the King's Seat by default. I see this a lot in the strength world. Couple of things and I'll rest my case and leave this topic alone: 1) Why was this not brought up when Gazza was doing his thing? No one said anything of the sort except begged for more! 2) As a comparison, Nathan Holle recently closed a GHP9 hand gripper and the evidence was a video that met a certain criteria and that criteria was indeed met and the close has been accepted. I see no one that closes BIG grippers doubting Nathan's feat (or least not yet), why? The answer in my opinion is credibility of the individual and his known accounts of past performances with grippers. Same with Gazza at the time he was performing these colossal bends! At the time his credibility seemed fine. Now that his spot is open for the taking his feats are all the sudden possible fakes. if this was brought before a jury in a legal case of circumstantial evidence, IMO I believe the jury would see this as a case of jealousy and envy. This is not about how good David W. or any other elite bender is. It's about video as proof of a given claim. Until someone can point out specific details as to why Gazza's bends were not legit or faked, I find his video evidence as compelling as any I've seen to date. As of current, I still believe and hold to the opinion that Gazza was the BEST Bender of ALL TIME!!! Joe, I did not enter this thread to question Mr. Hunt's bends, I entered after you asked if we should accept video as proof, and I agree we should in today's day and age it seems there is no other way. Every bend I have done except for a Red cert and a few bends at the recent BITE were video proof only, that being said, I am no world class bender so I understand it's different. I was inspired by Mr. Hunt's bends as many were/are. I have seen a video of Mr. Hunt breaking a tooth during a bend, and finishing the bend....I don't think anyone would fake that. Again, steel varies. Unless you are bending a rated bar, you don't know what you're bending. There is easier and harder steel. You do have to be at a certain level to bend ANY of it, but the best of the best would notice a significant difference between easier and harder stock. I am not in that category but I have had batches of easier and harder Shinys, Reds, Bastards, etc....the way things were before, there is just no way to know exactly what you are bending. The steel rating process gives us a better idea of what is what. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Anyone here with an IQ higher than that of a brick knows what is going on. People who want to be considered number one but cannot see themselves matching his feats will definitely try to undermine his accomplishments. In the light of the various elements David mentioned (uber fast progress rate, videos only / no credible witness for the biggest bends, zillion standard deviations ahead of anyone, borderline crazyness of some of his stuff - e.g. bending with his wrist in a cast etc.), anyone with an IQ higher than that of a brick is entitled to have reasonable doubts regarding Gazza's biggest bends . And no I'm not trying to secure a #1 spot in bending, nor am i jealous of people bending hard short pieces of steel (lol!). And I also believe you need to have an IQ lower than that of a brick to believe all 'well documented videos' on Youtube. There is a very well documented video of Criss Angel walking on water if anyone is interested in this kind of feats. On a side note: I've heard many reports of Gazza's kindness and generosity from 'The Swiss', so he's most probably a very nice guy, and I do hope he is legit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So you are saying Garys videos were not well documented and that he is a fake, and you are calling Tim Tolbert a accomplice since he sent Gary stock that he used for his BKOASB bend. I can guarantee you that the only people doubting him are those with an axe to grind for one reason or another. This is all very pathetic, and I am done with the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I never once questioned Gary's bends in this thread. I also did not say that video proof is not acceptable. My point was and is this: results in a competition or in front of somebody knowledgeable in the sport is, and should be, given more weight than even the most detailed and well documented youtube bend. Just as a solid video would be much better proof than you just saying it happened. It is extremely rare for someone to post up world class feats in any sport and not be questioned if they have never done anything remotely close to what they are claiming in front of anyone knowledgeable in the sport. Again, Gary is one of the legends of our sport and should be treated as such, as is Joe Kinney in grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Also, for proof of what we are talking about please see any of my 5/16 hrs barehanded reverse bends. The only thing I would have to change is calling it crs. Luckily, if I had tried that people would know im full of poop because they have seen me bend in a contest and at several get togetherss and have a good idea of what my max is in that particular event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Oh, final point here. I am not hoping to be thought of as number 1. My best bends in contests, with buddies, on video, and done for fun were never the best ever. I hope my legacy will be a guy who always gave max effort, never shied away from a challenge, and did everything he could to grow the sport of bending and help others reach their potential. Along the way i became decent in all the main bending styles. Never once claimed to be or desired to be called number 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Final final note. Lol Slim did many of his feats in front of people knowledgeable in the feats of strength game Jon. Nobody would question him for that reason. All your examples prove the point of why it can help verify what someone has done if they have done something of relative difficulty in front of someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellfire Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So you are saying Garys videos were not well documented and that he is a fake, and you are calling Tim Tolbert a accomplice since he sent Gary stock that he used for his BKOASB bend. I can guarantee you that the only people doubting him are those with an axe to grind for one reason or another. This is all very pathetic, and I am done with the topic. Hey "Squat more"...or Jon...as the case may be. Why don't we talk to one another using our real names? I'm Andy Thomas and I stand behind everything I have ever done or said. It seems that Mike speaks publicly as well.....why do you hide behind a board name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoggoth Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I haven't heard anyone say that the bends were faked, just that it's within the realm of possibility. Nothing more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) So you are saying Garys videos were not well documented and that he is a fake, and you are calling Tim Tolbert a accomplice since he sent Gary stock that he used for his BKOASB bend. I can guarantee you that the only people doubting him are those with an axe to grind for one reason or another. This is all very pathetic, and I am done with the topic. Hey "Squat more"...or Jon...as the case may be. Why don't we talk to one another using our real names? I'm Andy Thomas and I stand behind everything I have ever done or said. It seems that Mike speaks publicly as well.....why do you hide behind a board name? I am not hiding, if you read back Mike knows it is me, I made no attempts to "hide" who I am - as a matter of fact I called him by the nickname I gave him with much brotherly love quite some time ago. I was not aware that it was a requirement of this message board to register with ones real name. Maybe you need to calm down a bit and stop jumping to conclusions, friend. Edited July 2, 2012 by Squat More Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.