bwwm Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 If somebody really wanted to, they could anneal the steel by baking it for a long time. This would be the only way one could carefully heat treat it, without creating the thermal marks, and even then it's possible it still might show. Annealing would weaken it, but certain alloys are still going to be fairly strong, even after they lose their temper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Bending hasn't made it into comps for awhile, so who knows what could go down right now? What choo talkin' 'bout Willis?!?!?! There are "all bending" comps like BITE and Horne's comps every year. PK and Eric had an all bending comp as well a couple years ago. Bending of some sort is usually in the medleys at grip contests too. And bending goes down at the aftercomp quite a bit. Plus, guys get together for bending sessions in TX, MD, MO and PA quite often nowadays. I can only speak for myself, but as soon as I got to a point where I was bending decent sized steel, I made sure I got my ass to a competition to try and prove myself against others. I also did some of my harder bends (mag bastard and my first go at an insane) in front of another bender and used their stock. Everyone has reasons why they might not want to "prove" themselves. Lord knows there have been novels written on whether Kinney's #4 was a legitimate close. I just think we should rank things where they rightfully belong in importance. As for level of proof, I rank things as follows. 1. Did it in a competition 2. Did it in front of people who are knowledgeable in the lift, feat, bend you are doing. 3. Did it under strict cert conditions. 4. Youtube video 5. Did it in front of a novice crowd 6. You say you did it 7. Kim Wood says you did it That doesn't mean it didn't happen if you didn't do it in front of someone, only that I would put more credence in the claim if you had. There's also the point Chris Rice has brought up: When you do a youtube video or cert, the conditions are exactly to your liking and you often wait until you feel just right and perfect. Doing the same thing in a contest is often more difficult, because you have to be on when your name is called and you are not in the comfort of your own home. I love to compete. Not everyone is like that. As soon as I get even remotely average at something I seek out meets and contests to compare to myself with others under live fire. I will never be considered the best bender, gripster, or now a days powerlifter , but nobody will ever be able to say I ducked competition or wasn't willing to prove what I could do on the platform. Again, some people do not like to be around other people, much less go to comps or bending get togethers. I get that and it's cool, but if you haven't done anything near your best stuff in front of people I don't think we can rank you equally with someone who has sought out competition and performed in front of people. You just can't compare the two. For a long time I thought that nobody would care enough about a cert or fame on their favorite message board to fake a feat of strength. Sadly I have been proven wrong over and over again. I never cease to be amazed at the lengths people will go to fake a feat of strength. Luckily people usually sniff these out pretty quickly, but not always. There are definitely some Milli Vanilli's in the feats of strength world. I am not pointing this at anybody. This is a goofy fringe hobby we all enjoy. Just have fun with it. If you want to compete, compete. If not, don't. But don't expect a person to give the same weight to your youtube videos as they would if you did it at a contest or in front of someone who knows what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorGrip Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Well said Mike, you made several good points on this subject....cheat and you only cheat yourself, you will never feel true victory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Matney Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 7. Kim Wood says you did it lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) One thing to think of: Gary did his bends on video, and always showed the diameter, length and what the steel was if it was not regular steel, like using a magnet for stainless. He followed the same protocol of everyone else of his time. Just because he was insanely stronger and tougher mentally than everyone else why is he questioned? Does anyone who has seen Benedikt Magnusson deadlift 1014 on youtube think that is fake? Wouldn't it be funny for someone to go to his house, knock on the door and ask him to replicate the lift, that day, on the spot, in spite of the fact that Benni probably spent a month or two on a specific program or routine to reach this deadlift? And if Benni were to deny them then close the door on their face, would that make his deadlift fake just because that person didn't want to believe it possible, because they could never see themselves doing it? And you can argue that Benni did it in competition with calibrated plates, so what - in regards to this situation Gary followed the same protocol and guidelines as everyone else in his hobby and there are people who saw him bend in person like Mike "doolash" Dooley and Maxwell Thompson, are you calling them liars as well because I have no doubt they would attest to his bends being legit. Something to consider. Gazza was an innovator in training, had a mental edge that helped him more than other benders. He spent years and years honing his skills and had various wrist injuries, some now that require major surgeries that caused him to quit bending. People like you basically spitting in his face asking for proof of world class feats of strength probably had something to do with it. What would it take to convince you? It isn't like the man was going to fly to Sweden to bend in front of you, just to prove something he felt he did many times already on video with his anal documentation on many videos. Also David, videos have been posted where Gazza opened a package from Tim Tolbert from the gripboard and bend a piece of 3/8" stainless in singles, now are you calling those bends fake even though the video was cut up into parts that over lap each other so there could have been no switching of bars in his pocket. By calling these bends fake (and you do call them fake as you have said you do not give him credit for more than a 6" shiny in singles), I find that a bit insulting to Tim Tolbert as it somehow implies he assisted Gary in a lie. Just because you don't want to believe Gary's bends were real does not mean they were fake, he helped a lot of people in bending with training advice and motivation and for you to question him like this is absurd but as the saying goes, haters gon' hate. Just because I don't think I could ever bench 715# raw and cannot comprehend what it takes to do that, I am not going to question Scot Mendelsons legitimacy, nor am I going to question Malanichev's squats or Magnusson or Konstantinovs deadlifts. I really think you need to take a step back and look at how you sound right now. just my .02 Edited June 24, 2012 by Squat More Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Also people need to remember the personality Gary had, he bent for himself not to compete with anyone else. That is where everyone gets it wrong and just can't understand it. You all bend or bent to beat others and prove things to other people, where as Gary didn't. Just because something isn't done in competition doesnt mean it is fake, it may not be put on a "Official results" list but does that mean it is fake? If someone goes and pulls 1020 for a single on deadlift in their gym or garrage does that make it fake? No, it does not qualify as an official world record, but if the weight on the bar IS 1020, it is most definately real. Edited June 24, 2012 by Squat More Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Also people need to remember the personality Gary had, he bent for himself not to compete with anyone else. That is where everyone gets it wrong and just can't understand it. You all bend or bent to beat others and prove things to other people, where as Gary didn't. Just because something isn't done in competition doesnt mean it is fake, it may not be put on a "Official results" list but does that mean it is fake? If someone goes and pulls 1020 for a single on deadlift in their gym or garrage does that make it fake? No, it does not qualify as an official world record, but if the weight on the bar IS 1020, it is most definately real. Sorry but this is not true. On several occasions he bent specific steel on video due to callouts or falacy claims etc. And he climbed the FBBC lists for recognition for said feats. Just saying he did bend for others, himself, and the top dog status. Anyone looking for top dog status should be ready to do some sort of legit bend like something on Mike's list at some point. I'm not even a big dog gripster but I knew people were gonna want to see some comp or at least fellow GB member claims backed up. A few made claims the grip stuff I do in my garage were fakes. So I got on a plane and flew to Ohio, Tuscon (3x) and Pen to see Jedd. Every time I made sure to replicate feats. It's not that difficult a concept. Want to be the best, and get recognition for it? Then prove it. Many people do this in our little sport. And I'm sorry, but anyone with a youtube account, Gary had a couple, and anyone who competes, climbs cert lists, post threads of his work, and wear's the #1 bender tshirt is NOT just doing it for himself. Many people train at home with none of the above mentioned showmanship. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 David never once said anybody's bends were faked. I have nothing but good stuff to say about Gary. Adopting some of his methods helped me a lot. One thing though, saying that Gary only bent for himself is not true. He fought like crazy to climb the FBBC lists and be the top dog. It's the same argument I've heard for Joe K over the years as to why he didn't close the #4 in front of anyone. You can't say that a guy who put out a DVD to sell only gripped for himself. Argument doesn't hold water. Nobody has accused anyone of faking anything, only that you would not give as much weight to a guy who pulled 1050 in his basement with a video for proof as you would to Andy or Benni's pulls done with calibrated plates in competition before a crowd. If someone asks what is the best dl ever, nobody is going to say the guy on youtube whether he pulled 1050 in his basement or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Calibrated weights are one thing but a 3/8" x 6" piece of steel is still a 3/8" x 6" piece of steel and even though through steel calibration bars can vary, who else has done that? So because Gary didn't bend anything in competition and none of his elite bends were done in comps we can just say they are "questionable"? And if you are not saying the bends were faked, what is there to question? Comp or not, a Huge king of all bastards is still a huge king of all bastards is it not? So what exactly is your argument? What are you questioning? Saying you question the legitimacy of someones bends is basically calling them a fake, unless there is some other definition in the English dictionary that I am not aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Just for clarification, I'm not saying Joe didn't close a legit #4 so we don't need to have that argument again. Just using that as an example of why your "he did it for himself" argument doesn't hold water. Also, the examples you gave of Mendy KK, etc. Are examples of guys who have proven themselves on the platform so those are not the best examples to make your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 And lets not forget that the first time Gary went on a bending tirade and ruffled a lot of feathers is because he was called a clown, and a fake by a certain performing strongman and his crew. You guys don't remember that time in "bending history"? I am sure John Beatty does, as he was somewhat in the middle of it and we'd chatted about it a few times. Don't you guys think that after 13+ years of being questioned and doing bends that were extremely documented that the man just grew tired of it? People he considered his friends asking for proof of his legitimacy, maybe that got to him? Wouldn't any of you guys take offense to that even a little? This is where we get into personalities and Gary had a very odd one, still does but I don't think there is anything "questionable" in his bends at all, again just because something isn't done in competition, when it comes to the stock he bent, even if it was not the toughest available calibration wise, how many guys could do the things he did in the style he did them even with easy stuff at that diameter. Also a side note, congrats on being able to lift again Porky, hope the back is holding up well. All the best, eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Just for clarification, I'm not saying Joe didn't close a legit #4 so we don't need to have that argument again. Just using that as an example of why your "he did it for himself" argument doesn't hold water. Also, the examples you gave of Mendy KK, etc. Are examples of guys who have proven themselves on the platform so those are not the best examples to make your argument. But they are great examples of feats that you or I will probably never reach, but just because that is a fact does not mean they are unable to be done. That was my point. Also how many of you guys would fly to England to compete in a grip comp? You expected Gary to go to the US and compete in your bending comp? I mean c'mon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) And I would like for David to explain to me what is exactly questionable about Garys bends, if you Mike say he and no one else ever said they were fake yet calling them questionable implies nothing else but the statement that they were fake, what else could you mean? What is exactly questionable about them? And again: what do you mean by qustionable? Do you believe he did not bend what he claimed? And if so, that is the same as calling them fake, fake being defined as not real or genuine, a claim of a feat that was not honestly performed. Now calling a bend questionable but saying you dont think it was fake is a contradiction in terms. Either way what you really mean or don't say anything at all, dancing around vague terms is not very admirable. Edited June 25, 2012 by Squat More Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Nobody expected him to go to a bending comp big guy. I think David was referring to something else entirely. Anyway, Gary is/was a beast. But if you want to answer the question of what was the hardest nail bent, u prolly need to qualify it a bit. In a contest. With witnesses. On video. Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Also, let's not be too hard on David. I think we often forget English is not his first language because he's good with google translate. I don't think he was saying anything more than I was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 If memory serves David speaks perfect English and is as articulate as anyone living in the US or Canada, sometimes more so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not true. Although you wouldn't know it from his posts. Lots of google translate. He speaks it ok. Reads it ok. Getting the correct words down when writing can be an issue sometimes. Thanks for the kind words on the lifting Jon. Long time no talk. I actually messed up my lower back last week so im busy doing dips lately. Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squat More Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Yeah I recently realized I may have a herniated disc in my back, so I may be putting squats and deadlifts on the back burner for a while until I can get a MRI, in the meantime I can run smolov jr for bench and hit the rolling thunder like a madman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Sleeking of my joe average lifting... I have pulled 523 in a meet, which was a PR at the time. Since then have pulled 560 at home and 600 in a suit with plates weighed on a postal scale. But if someone asks me what my best dead is I say 523 on the platform. At least until I demolish that at my next meet. ;•D Get that checked out bro. Hope it's nothing serious. Best of strength in your training and heal quickly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 For the historians, right after BBB2 (and I mean within a day or two) where 4-5 Magnificent Bastards were bent (this was an elite bend at the time), Gazza started posting crazy bends and it just went up and up from there. Progression is a neat thing. I took the full 5 minutes to barely get my Mag Bastard to 2" at the BBB2. 2 years later I bent a Fantastic both DO and DU. The really cool thing is that some benders are now blowing through Fantastics and shorter in harder stock. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorGrip Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Yeah this was my tribute bend to Gazza when he and I both were bending regularly - regardless of whether you like him or don't Gary excited us all with what he was doing-I hate that personalities on either side of the street got in the way of progress cause God only knows what would have been bent. I also realize that injuries had a bit to do with the end of a revolution. I haven't bent in months due to a bicep insertion tendon or ligament injury but who knows maybe GatorGrip and some of the other old timers LOL will come back to the fold and wreak havoc once more... A Bend Gazza Motivated Me To Do: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) I googled around and actually found some contest results from 06. I was not aware that Gary had entered a competition that was held in April 2006. http://www.davidhorn...06Contests.html . Though Gary won the competition I must say that I am far from impressed with the numbers. While I must admit that it might not be tasteful to downplay anyone's contest results, I however find it important since the rating system back then was not the same as today, and people might get the wrong idea about the difficulty of those bars were. Gary won the unbraced freestyle event biggest bar in under 2 minutes with a 290k bar (old rating system) Which would translate into somwehere between a 1/4 G5 and a 1/4 G8. Impressive how he just a year later would bend a 6"x3/8 303 stainless, a bar that is almost three times harder. Imagine going from a raw bench of 80 kg to a raw bench of 240kg in a year, after already having lifted for 4 years or so. I don't know about you guys, but that makes me suspicious. People have seen Gary bend, but unfortunately I have to be hard on Maxwell and say that he was a novice back then(still a novice today if you ask me, and I'm sure he would agree if you'd ask him). Doolash, unfortunately, appear to be a less impressive novice than Maxwell was back then judging by his bending results. People have sent him stuff in the past. But to be honest Jon, do you think it would be impossible to switch the stainless for some much weaker stainless or just some polished aluminum? I think it wouldn't be that hard for anyone with enough motivation. I'm afraid that the evidence is not enough. I need to hear specifically from someone like David Horne say that Gary bent this or that of similar difficulty. Maxwell could be a credible witness depending on the circumstances. If Maxwell says that he handed Gary a red nail or FBBC bastard or shiny or anything of the equivalent and saw Gary barehand it, then that would be strong evidence in Gary's favor. Maxwell watching Gary bend his own stock is not enough since Maxwell wouldn't have been able to controll the strength of those bars, as long as they were harder than a 1/4 grade 8. Unfortunately I have never heard or seen anything which I would call objective evidence speaking in Gary's favor. HOWEVER the lack of evidence does not mean that he is a fraud. It just means that unfortunately we can't obectively say for sure that he bent what he did, since it could've been faked. And I must say that if Gary in fact did bend those bars, it is a shame that he just didn't make the effort to prove it. He competed right before, and right after he was the strongest steel bender of all time. But for whatever reasons choosed not to, when it mattered the most. Edited June 27, 2012 by David_wigren 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yummy Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Wow interesting post david, after reading that I definitely have some doubt. I guess we will never really know. So aaron still has the record for the toughest unbraced bend in competition then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturalstrength Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I googled around and actually found some contest results from 06. I was not aware that Gary had entered a competition that was held in April 2006. http://www.davidhorn...06Contests.html . Though Gary won the competition I must say that I am far from impressed with the numbers. While I must admit that it might not be tasteful to downplay anyone's contest results, I however find it important since the rating system back then was not the same as today, and people might get the wrong idea about the difficulty of those bars were. Gary won the unbraced freestyle event biggest bar in under 2 minutes with a 290k bar (old rating system) Which would translate into somwehere between a 1/4 G5 and a 1/4 G8. Impressive how he just a year later would bend a 6"x3/8 303 stainless, a bar that is almost three times harder. Imagine going from a raw bench of 80 kg to a raw bench of 240kg in a year, after already having lifted for 4 years or so. I don't know about you guys, but that makes me suspicious. People have seen Gary bend, but unfortunately I have to be hard on Maxwell and say that he was a novice back then(still a novice today if you ask me, and I'm sure he would agree if you'd ask him). Doolash, unfortunately, appear to be a less impressive novice than Maxwell was back then judging by his bending results. People have sent him stuff in the past. But to be honest Jon, do you think it would be impossible to switch the stainless for some much weaker stainless or just some polished aluminum? I think it wouldn't be that hard for anyone with enough motivation. I'm afraid that the evidence is not enough. I need to hear specifically from someone like David Horne say that Gary bent this or that of similar difficulty. Maxwell could be a credible witness depending on the circumstances. If Maxwell says that he handed Gary a red nail or FBBC bastard or shiny or anything of the equivalent and saw Gary barehand it, then that would be strong evidence in Gary's favor. Maxwell watching Gary bend his own stock is not enough since Maxwell wouldn't have been able to controll the strength of those bars, as long as they were harder than a 1/4 grade 8. Unfortunately I have never heard or seen anything which I would call objective evidence speaking in Gary's favor. HOWEVER the lack of evidence does not mean that he is a fraud. It just means that unfortunately we can't obectively say for sure that he bent what he did, since it could've been faked. And I must say that if Gary in fact did bend those bars, it is a shame that he just didn't make the effort to prove it. He competed right before, and right after he was the strongest steel bender of all time. But for whatever reasons choosed not to, when it mattered the most. David, I am not trying to be antagonistic, as you know that I feel that we have become good friends over the years, and I still hold you in high esteem as the overall best steel bender on the planet in all styles unbraced and braced, but..... Although your response does make it appear that Gary's progress sounds fishy(and I know that you aren't necessarily accusing Gary), it's NOT impossible for Garry to have made a "quantum leap" in unbraced bending in a years time. For example, when I first started braced bending, David Hornes 24"x5/8" bend was number one in the world. Many speculated that it is not humanely possible to beat at the time. Shortly afterwards, I come along and tackle a 28" piece of 5/8". I bend it, but it takes me 45 minutes and three YouTube videos to complete. Fast forward 6 months and I am already bending sub 20" 5/8! A few months later, 18",17", 16", and eventually sub 15"@ 5/8". Nobody knew who I was, and I popped out of nowhere to become a decent braced bender I think. Fast forward to last years BITE competition. All I needed to bend was a 21" piece of 5/8". It was a warmup for me, but this is my only documented contest bend. At that time, I was putting huge kinks in 14"x5/8" steel! Fast forward to present times...after years of injuries I unfortunately had to retire from bending altogether. I never officially documented my 14.75"x5/8" complete bend on video. I never documented my 26"x3/4" midbar bend. Never documented my sub 30"x20mm bend. Did it happen???? You bet your ass it did!! Was it performed at a competition in front of well-versed steel benders?? No!! Unfortunately, for future generations it all may just end up urban legend. For me personally, I know what I bent and the feeling of accomplishing the task. Sometimes in life that's all that matters! -Carl Ansara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightyjoe Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 For anyone to remotely believe Gary Hunt (Gazza) faked his bends has an axe to grind or is downright jealous! Gazza was light years ahead of everyone in bending. I've noticed very often once an individual is accomplishing something that no one else has even approached then it all the sudden becomes suspect. Not possible because my hero so and so can't even do that! Gazza's video evidence is some of the best out there! Period! I don't know why David just doesn't come out and say he doesn't believe Gazza's claims. Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel! Why don't you expend the same amount of energy on elevating your own bends as you have in trying to discredit Gazza and you may even surprise yourself David! Yeah! I'm being harsh here but this is ridiculous!!! Gazza was the BEST! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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