jad Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 The Elite status was put together in order to separate the Woodall's from the rest of the pack. If there is any debate on this, go back and listen to last Fall's Grip Strength Radio shows. While others may set a goal to put a certain poundage on their Grippers, Pinch, and Axle for the prestige of getting to the Elite class, from the beginning it has only been about making the whole contest setting more friendly to beginners and those who have been struggling to compete against certain perennial dominators. Got it. I think it's great for making for a friendlier environment for beginners and growing the sport. I was thinking it was a measure to address the bodyweight and/or handsize divisions that Chris, myself, and others have brought up over the years. It does not address those areas and from this post it sounds like that was never the intention. I guess that will only matter if said beginners start to drop out once they become frustrated with grip's lack of classes. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 A few things. Once you total elite, if you compete in a sanctioned contest once a year, you stay elite. I don't know how this is done in other sports, and I don't really care, but that is how we are doing it. It may not be on the GripSport.org site, but it can be added. That's cool and how I thought it should be done too. It would suck to finally (for someone like me that will have to work for many years to achieve it) hit Elite and then have to repeat it each year when you might have some ups and downs - but will always be pretty close to that level all the time. Also, I am pretty sure Paul Knight is either Elite or very close. He may have inadvertently been left off the list. He either meets or exceeds me in Axle, is light years ahead of me in Grippers and is around 230 in Pinch. What size are his hands? I thought I read once that his hands are 8.25" long. He's definitely on the Elite list I'd say too. Ross - you are freak straight from the streets. I don't care if you can learn about Grip Sport on Monday and qualify on Saturday. Freak is Freak. And you are Freak. Freak often = Elite. That's all there is to it. Andrew is the same deal = Freak. Yep! I don't hate you for being monster strong even in your first contest man. Neither does anyone else I don't think. We might be jealous of you, but don't mistake that for dislike. You seem extremely nice and humble for as strong as you are already. Matt - Don't think you don't deserve a spot at Nationals because of how you qualified. With different circumstances and more contests you probably would have qualified anyway. Totally agree with this Matt. The qualifying rules are there and hitting just one of them legitimately means you're qualified buddy. Chris - your numbers show exactly why we should be doing all of this with hand size divisions, my friend. If we were, we could have as large of implements as possible and there would be no worry. You are 6 foot 2 - your frame could easily carry 250. Your hand size doesn't change with age, weight gain, etc. That is the next thing we need to talk about in a separate thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 6 out of 10 is a better idea than the current one, in my opinion. I think the current system might leave out some guys that are obviously elite. Say if Horne and McKinless were US guys. I would say the best way to chose standards would be to see what numbers would put guys who deserve to be on the list solidly there, and leave out guys that don't need to be. Gripper-180 Pinch-220 2"Vbar-300 Axle-400 Wrist Developer- Gold level 8 Vulcan- Gold level 18 OHDL- 290 Lever to face: 22 Now, if you wanted to be really mathematical, 6/8 with 2 crushing, 2 support, 2 wrist, and 2 pinch events would be fair. However, I can't much think of 2 popular pinching events, hence my lift. I would adjust this list to get Thorton, Corcorran, Johnson, Durniat, and Woodall on it, though they would all be close. Or they could be grandfathered in- Woodall is obviously elite but he competed before the vulcan or wrist developer were popular. Those are some very solid numbers all around. I'll probably never hit the Axle or the 2HP. Not a big deal of course. I like the challenge of always trying to get up there though. I won't quit just because I can't hit Elite. I don't think many other guys will either. I wonder if we'll have a small problem of a few guys deliberately sandbagging their numbers to compete in the Open class (instead of Elite) so they can "dominate" the Open vs. being a small fish in the Elite class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Jedd makes an excellent point about spinning our wheels and creating and "elite" loser. IMO there are two different view points going on here. One: these guys are looking at elite like a cert or something for their grip resume. They know earning "elite" isn't going to make them more competitive with the current top dogs. Two: these guys are looking at elite as a feeder system to encourage growth of the sport. By placing the elites in their own category, it would encourage more people to compete. I guess we need to decide what the goal is; growth or prestige? If it's prestige, we could leave it as is or even go with the 6/10 lifts. It doesn't really matter; it's all impressive. If it's growth; the elite requirements as is do nothing to address bodyweight and/or handsize complaints. If Chris has an epiphany and learns how to set grippers and adds 30# to his gripper and trains his axle and adds a few # and is all of sudden an elite, he's still competing against mostly heavyweights. A 180 gripper, a 230ish pinch and even a 400# axle will still have him struggling to make the top 5 in the elites. However, he'd be tough to beat with those numbers at 94kg or <7.75" hands or whatever we decide the cut off is. Damn good points Josh. I still think the handsize cutoff is pretty fair too for the most part. Even though mine are a hair larger than the small hands cutoff (7 and 7/8"). My hands are getting meatier this past year. To the point where I can definitely see why my Rolling Thunder poundages are going down. My right hand especially has really gotten noticeably thicker. This might be a case of losing weight would actually INCREASE some of my thickbar performances by a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 My hands are 7 5/8" - I'm 6'2" tall - BW is 202# (92K) - age 62 Axle - 353# Chris, to the best of my knowledge, only Eric M. is ahead of you on the axle "list" as far as those with 7.75" hands or less. Josh, I thought you had pulled 363lbs in at least one contest with hands that are 7 and 5/8" long? Or 7.75". Don't remember exactly. But I think your numbers are right up there with the highest around in the "small hands" category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The number of classes will be tricky at a certain point anyway. I don't want to see grip become full of categories like "best 7.5" and under hand" - "best 8" and over hand" - "best 8.5" and over hand"... Or have 10 weight classes. How many weight classes would be "ideal" in my opinion? Up to 3. 175 and under. 176 to 200. And 200+ These numbers are just as arbitrary as any others though. On a hand size-related note, I always thought the hand size classes ought to be 7.99" and under. And 8" and over. 8" really seems like the "big hand" cutoff to me. Mine is only 1/8" away from 8" - but any time I see what I consider to be a "big hand" it's 8" or over. Usually well over 8". I shook a guy's hand the other day that was at least 8.75". Now that's a big hand. And it felt as thick as a KCK phonebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 I've already told how I decided on my 94 kilo class for Gripmas. And as it's not used by the US Grip Organization in any official way - I didn't have to worry about records being set, tracked, or anything except what I was concerned about - dividing the contestants into two groups in the hope of attracting new competitors who wanted a little fairer shot at a trophy than having to go against Chad, Jedd, Brad, and Andrew etc. And it has worked out well for what I wanted I think - from what people have told me - some of them came to Gripmas just because of the light weight class offered. Now if when I did that initial division, it had came out at 82.5K or whatever number - I would have gone with that. Was I glad that it came out such that I ended up in the light weight class(by about 10#)? Yes, of course I was but I had always been in the small hands class offered by the Diesel Crew and I had nothing to do with setting that up. To be honest it wouldn't bother me any to wait until the day of Gripmas and do the math that day and divide everyone in half then but that really doesn't address the issue at hand. If and when the number of competitors becomes large enough (I doubt it ever will) I could see maybe 3 classes under either method at the most and no more than two for now. I still believe that with good event selection weight classes will be more understandable to the new comers and still work out better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The Elite status was put together in order to separate the Woodall's from the rest of the pack. If there is any debate on this, go back and listen to last Fall's Grip Strength Radio shows. While others may set a goal to put a certain poundage on their Grippers, Pinch, and Axle for the prestige of getting to the Elite class, from the beginning it has only been about making the whole contest setting more friendly to beginners and those who have been struggling to compete against certain perennial dominators. I agree and I think this is a good thing. I could care less whether I have the title of Elite or not. What I do care about is alienating other less experienced competitors in my contests when competing heads up in the same class. When they lose interest because they got beat by 100+ pounds in the pinch or take your pick of other lifts and they just don't come out for the next event that really bums me out. Its hard to motivate most people to train for a contest when they are that far off the standard in a one class system. Maybe that's just my experience out here in the west. At this point I would be happy to skip the contests and help build up the base of interested people in my region rather than alienate them in the contests so they never come back out. - Aaron EXACTLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The Elite status was put together in order to separate the Woodall's from the rest of the pack. If there is any debate on this, go back and listen to last Fall's Grip Strength Radio shows. While others may set a goal to put a certain poundage on their Grippers, Pinch, and Axle for the prestige of getting to the Elite class, from the beginning it has only been about making the whole contest setting more friendly to beginners and those who have been struggling to compete against certain perennial dominators. Got it. I think it's great for making for a friendlier environment for beginners and growing the sport. I was thinking it was a measure to address the bodyweight and/or handsize divisions that Chris, myself, and others have brought up over the years. It does not address those areas and from this post it sounds like that was never the intention. I guess that will only matter if said beginners start to drop out once they become frustrated with grip's lack of classes. Time will tell. Josh, I know very well about your concerns with hand size over the years, and I agree with you. I have agreed with you for years. In fact at GGC 2005 and 2006 we had hand size divisions. Did you know this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I've already told how I decided on my 94 kilo class for Gripmas. And as it's not used by the US Grip Organization in any official way - I didn't have to worry about records being set, tracked, or anything except what I was concerned about - dividing the contestants into two groups in the hope of attracting new competitors who wanted a little fairer shot at a trophy than having to go against Chad, Jedd, Brad, and Andrew etc. And it has worked out well for what I wanted I think - from what people have told me - some of them came to Gripmas just because of the light weight class offered. Now if when I did that initial division, it had came out at 82.5K or whatever number - I would have gone with that. Was I glad that it came out such that I ended up in the light weight class(by about 10#)? Yes, of course I was but I had always been in the small hands class offered by the Diesel Crew and I had nothing to do with setting that up. To be honest it wouldn't bother me any to wait until the day of Gripmas and do the math that day and divide everyone in half then but that really doesn't address the issue at hand. If and when the number of competitors becomes large enough (I doubt it ever will) I could see maybe 3 classes under either method at the most and no more than two for now. I still believe that with good event selection weight classes will be more understandable to the new comers and still work out better. I still just want to wait and see what happens with WSH II and see if someone in the lighter class mops everyone up because he has giant hands but is slender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 In the US, the 80kg or whatever class would have interested under 5 competitors since we have had competitions here. I don't like Chris's weight class because it is too tempting and makes me work, but it most evenly divides competitors in 2. If I have weight divisions at my comp, I have and will use Chris's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Having hand size divisions in the width adjustable pinch or grippers with a 20mm block or MMS is...funny. It is not too difficult to select events that do not favour big hands. Thickbar events on the other hand will always be dominated by people with large hands (and typically large bodies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The Elite status was put together in order to separate the Woodall's from the rest of the pack. If there is any debate on this, go back and listen to last Fall's Grip Strength Radio shows. While others may set a goal to put a certain poundage on their Grippers, Pinch, and Axle for the prestige of getting to the Elite class, from the beginning it has only been about making the whole contest setting more friendly to beginners and those who have been struggling to compete against certain perennial dominators. Got it. I think it's great for making for a friendlier environment for beginners and growing the sport. I was thinking it was a measure to address the bodyweight and/or handsize divisions that Chris, myself, and others have brought up over the years. It does not address those areas and from this post it sounds like that was never the intention. I guess that will only matter if said beginners start to drop out once they become frustrated with grip's lack of classes. Time will tell. Josh, I know very well about your concerns with hand size over the years, and I agree with you. I have agreed with you for years. In fact at GGC 2005 and 2006 we had hand size divisions. Did you know this? Yes, the 16+ hour drive was the problem for me, not the lack of divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.