Fairbar

[Roark]

With all the talk of thick bar, it is time for those interested, to remove either the advantage or disadvantage of bar size in relation to hand length size, so that we can compare fairly, hence the idea of what I call the Fairbar.

Whatever your hand length is, as measured from tip of

middle finger of outstretched hand to the first wrist line

coming toward the forearm, that is the circumference of the Fairbar handle for you.

If your hand length thus measured is 7.5", you will need

to make, buy, borrow, a bar with that same circumference.

Same for any other, longer or shorter, hand lengths.

This is very practical for each person, and is a fair way to compare thick to thick considering various hand sizes. So the lifter with a 7.5" hand/circumference will be competing

against the lifter with the 9" hand/circumference on a dead level playing field.

This may not be a perfect solution, but does it not surpass the many variables now in place?

Hence, if we refer to a Fairbar deadlift, or a Fairbar clean,

we will know that the lifter is using a bar circumference matching his own hand length.

Comments?

[Bill Piche]

What if I have a rusty old handle with knurling. But, use the fairbar method? I will clearly have an advantage.

Someone would have to consistently manufacture these "fairbars" in order to do the comparision.

[The Mac]

Joe,

I must admit I have problems with the principles behind this idea - I like the idea that everyone has to compete against the same conditions (in this case thickness of handles). In athletics you have the 100m sprint - they don't ask each athlete to run a slightly different distance according to say, leg length, just to make things "fair". If I can outlift another lifter on a thickbar lift then it will be for a whole variety of reasons, not just because I may have different sized hands. As it is I don't have particularly big hands, so will never be at an "advantage" in thick bar lifting against those that do.

Interesting though.

[Roark]

Any bar can be corrupted by rust etc., especially in vertical bar lifts, but frankly, I think the Fairbar idea is valid and though any bar can be knurled, unknurled, rusted etc., it seems allowing such conditions to happen to the bar reflects more of the lifter's inner motivations than the bar's outer condition.

But, because you mention it, Wannagrip, and because it

will be less expensive, let's say the Fairbar should NOT be

knurled.

While consistent manufacturing would be ideal, it probably will not happen in a cost effective manner because of all the 1/8" size variables, so it would seem that simply buying a bar slightly oversized and having it

lathed (is that a word?) down to Fairbar size is the individual, affordable, answer. Only the grip area would

be lathed down.

Those who are going to cheat by lifting rusty bars etc are not people who we can reach anyway.

To thwart another idea, no, a Fairbar is not a tavern with

cheap prices for beer

[Roark]

Chris,

As in your illustration about the foot race, what we are trying to do is eliminate variables here also.

If you and I compete in a Fairbar contest and we both

one hand deadlift 500 lbs (humor me), is that not more

telling than both of us lifting 500 if my hand is one inch longer than yours and I used your Fairbar?

[OldGuy]

I think a better measurement wold be the span of the middle finger and thumb. Your way does not allow for thumb length.

[Roark]

OldGuy,

I considered that also, and it is another valid way to measure.

The most ideal way is to simply grasp various sized bars until you reach a size where the middle finger tip touches

the thumb tip.

It seemed easier for most to measured hand length, but

any of these methods is better than different length hands using the same size bar and calling it 'thickbar'.

[bender]

I have relativly small hands.

For me, a 2.5" bar leaves such a gap between my fingers and thumb, that it stops being a thick-bar and becomes a pinch grip.

On the other hand, a 2" bar allows my fingers to just barely over-lap, nearly doubling my poundanges.

With a 2.5" bar, I can barely lift 115lbs. On the 2" bar, I can man-handle 170lbs, the bar's limit.

Rorak, I know I have strong hands, but 2.5" bars are not for me. Though it would be fun to compete with a "fairbar", it would just be embarassing to use the "kiddy" bar while any Gillingham or Mobster used the "man" bar.

They are all different lifts. The "fairbar" is an absolutly logical idea, but not practical. Much like changing the high-jump based off of the jumpers height. Or the basketball hoop's height, based off of the teams average height...

[The Mac]

Joe,

In your illustration, what it tells me is that we are both equally strong at that lift using whatever sized bar was my "fairbar" The fact that you could overlap your fingers by an inch and I could not does not (and should not) infer I was better in any way - I would only say my lift was better if I could lift 501lbs. It's real world strength I'm interested in (can I lift "X" object to "Y" position) not whether I can lift a specially-tailored "X" to a certain "Y".

[Guest wells]

Many sports have weight classes for good reason. So maybe other 'designated classes’ regarding anatomical differences is not so far fetched. I know there needs to be a limit and it needs to be practical. On the other hand maybe it isn't necessary.

E.g.: I have really surprised people by my strength; being a skinny stick and all, I am underestimated. I was helping out a friend on perfecting his dipping technique; a muscle head in a gym disagreed and challenged me on parallel bar dips.

First for reps, he pulled off 19 with a body weight of 115 kg - outstanding for his size. I completed 53 reps weighing in at only 72 kg.

But with a weight belt he completed only 3 reps with 40 kg. I completed 9 reps with 75kg! I have completed four reps with 100kg from time to time.

He was extremely baffled by this and never thought that my small hands and long thin arms could handle the exercise. Later in the shower room he saw my USMC tattoos and said: "That's why! I should have known. You're crazy!" Really I sometimes think it is 'all' in your head... what you can and can not do. Luckily for him I didn't show him my 'weighted' wide grip pull-ups.

I think it rely depends on your training intensity and will power. Small hands, oh well maybe 'The Inch' is an impossibility but practically everything else may not be. My two cents worth...

[Roark]

Bender,

I respectfully disagree with your comparisons.

For you to use a bar that 'fits' your hand should bring no

discredit to you; indeed, the reverse.

As I argue in ironhistory.com, Apollon SHOULD HAVE BEEN

able to lift those huge 'thick bars' because of his hand length.

Those who wish to use Fairbar can use it and we will all

know what is meant.

What is in use now, I deem to be Unfairbar- but that is only my opinion, and apparently a minority one at that.

[bender]

Let me clarify:

I think the fairbar is a great idea. An outstanding concept. Logical and based in common sense. I'm all for it, only I see it not gaining popularity as a standard sized bar.

I believe that a hand "length class" would be a more socialy acceptable way of judging hand strength on thick bars.

Or perhaps there could be a handlength-to-handlewidth ratio calculated to determine some "actual weight lifted"... Who knows.

[Roark]

I agree the concept will not go mainstream.

But whoever wants to make/buy/borrow the right size bar to make a Fairbar lift can at least post such accomplishments and we will know what is meant.

In other words, the Fairbar one hand deadlift record could

be considered this way: The total weight is what matters

because the thickness of the bar is no longer an uneven

factor.

I like your hand length category idea, though Fairbar is

more precise.

[bender]

But whoever wants to make/buy/borrow the right size bar to make a Fairbar lift can at least post such accomplishments and we will know what is meant.

In other words, the Fairbar one hand deadlift record could

be considered this way: The total weight is what matters

because the thickness of the bar is no longer an uneven

factor.

Absolutly! Right on. That is something that could truly stick. Instead of comparing ones lifts with anyone else of different hand size, the fairbar comparison is instead made. Nice.

[EricMilfeld]

I'm with you on this one, Roark. If we could work out the specifics, in terms of rules, it would be nice to keep some official records that account for hand size.

[Roark]

Just as lifts are now reported using standard 1.1" bars,

the only change needed would be to indicate that the

lift was Fairbar, and it would thus be understood that the

bar circumference matched the lifter's hand length.

In other words, if I report a 300 pound Fairbar one hand

deadlift (again, humor me), and someone else can deadlift

300 Fairbar, whether my hand is shorter or longer than the other lifter's is not relevant, we are equal on the lift.

Those who want to use this terminology will hence be

understood, and those that do not use the term have that

choice.

My hand length is 7.5" so my Fairbar circumference is 7.5"

also, or diameter 2.38" which is the original Inch 172, or the Millennium bell. Lucky me.

[KJM]

What would the losers use for excuses?

[AnimalCage]

Then we can deposit all the winnings in FairBanks!

[Tom of Iowa2]

It's an interesting idea,logical,and could actually be done at a contest i supose....and all hypothetical and for fun(i gather) but then what about other aspects of grip testing?

i.e.All hands do not fit the grippers the same?Some hands perhaps too small and some possibly too large?Certain hands have distinct leverage advantages i would guess(no grippers yet so i don't KNOW)Different size grippers?

Pinch?would all have to be fair bar comparisons?

[mobsterone]

To borrow from Sybersnott - wouldn't it be far easier just to say I was King and leave it at that (he doesn't post for ages and then spouts BS - some people eh).

I like the idea/principle but abhor the expense...

[Roark]

The only expense would be as in the old days when

competitors were allowed to bring their own equipment

to a contest.

Each person make, or have made, his own Fairbar. I have

not looked into the expense, but many, many of you will

have hands about 7.5" so your problem has been solved by the companies that make a 2.38" Inch handle.

Those with smaller hands can have that item milled down.

Those with larger hands can have a larger stock milled down.

We spend money on what we value.

Regarding other grip events and hand size (such as pinching), frankly my solution to that is this:

Allow each competitor to pinch whatever width he pleases

knowing that every other competitor has the same right.

If I choose 2" width because I am best at that width, and you choose 2.5" width because you are best at that width, which of us has a complaint?

I could not care less about grippers.

[HAMMERHEAD]

I really like the Fairbar idea. When I get the chance I'd like to get one made.

Thats the only thing which may hamper this idea from catching on. having to get one made/make one.

I bet PDA would make it on an individual basis if you give 'em the measurements.

Thick objects are the only thing that hand size offers and advantage. Even with grippers it doesn't matter, thats why you set a gripper.

I'll have to admit I'm a little excited about this idea.

-HH

[OldGuy]

I am claiming that me being old and feeble negates the advantage of having a large hand.

[Roark]

You're not old...

[OldGuy]

I need a bar this thick. 2.84489460776762912686879727028369 which is 8 15/16'' divided by pi.