What Is Strong?

[The Natural]

I respect your opinion. Of course if the task is powerlifts, Coan would be head and shoulders above 99.9% of the population, but what if the task was a Ranger mission, hump an 80lb pack through a swamp, then carry a wounded teammate 2 miles to an out point.?

I don't think most people would consider that to be strength related. More of an endurance event. It can be said to be a test of mental strength, but then again, so is ice skating, rugby, and just about any other sport, plus many things that are not sports. I thought we were discussing physical strength specifically, not mental strength or physical endurance. Incidentally, someone on this board once remarked that Ranger training depleted him of more strength and muscle than anything else he had ever experienced, and that Rangers were some of the more gaunt members of the armed forces.

Then he may have got dropped. Or may have quit. Or passed and had a negative experience, not sure why a Ranger would speak bad of his training. Not trying to turn this into a pissing match- truly. BUT power and "strong" are not equal. Carry you buddy around the block, it isn't just "endurance" it is strength...can that same individual pop 500 out of the hole? Maybe not, maybe so. "What is strong" is the most open ended question period. It is what you want it to be OR what you need it to be. There is no "one" strong. Strong in the gym? Strong in the field? Strong on the rings? Strong with Atlas stones? Strong with grippers?- are you saying Paul Knight isn't strong? Can he bend a Fantastic Bastard? There are plenty of definitions of "strong" the problem is the question, not the answers.

I agree with what you say, it's just that I took Rick's opening post to be talking about strength in the traditional sense, the sort that can be measured with weights and barbells. The context of the thread, in other words, narrowed down the type of strength under discussion.

[Rick Browne]

I agree with what you say, it's just that I took Rick's opening post to be talking about strength in the traditional sense, the sort that can be measured with weights and barbells. The context of the thread, in other words, narrowed down the type of strength under discussion.

Good point. Lets keep the discussion true to the original first post. Thanks

[Rick Walker]

My list:

Squat: 1.7 times bodyweight x20, Add 100 pounds to it x1. No belt.

Front squat: 1.5 times bodyweight x1.

Deadlift: 2 times bodyweight x20, Add 100 pounds x1. No belt.

Bench: bodyweight x20, add 100 pounds x1.

Overhead press: 90% of your best bench press x1, strict.

Pull-ups: bodyweight x20, all from dead hang. +50 pounds x5.

Dips: bodyweight + 100 pounds x10.

Head Harness: 100 pounds x100 reps front and back.

Atlas stone: bodyweight x1 to platform, no tacky.

Farmers: bdoyweight in each hand x 100 yards, no set-downs.

Log press: bodyweight x10. Any form you want.

Tire flip: 3.5 times bodyweight tire x 5 flips.

Sandbag carry: bodyweight 100 yards, no set downs.

Grippers: #3 or better x 1.

2-hand pinch: bodyweight x1.

Axle deadlift: 2 times bodyweight x1.

Block weight: 50 pound Blob or better x1.

1-hand thick bar: Inch dumbbell x1.

1-hand plate pinch: 2-45s x1, 3-25s x1.

Spike bending: red nail x1.

Strict hammer lever: 10 pounder x1 lever to nose and back up.

Strict plate curl: 35 x1.

Prowler: empty in grass, x 10-30 yard trips in under 15 minutes. On pavement: loaded to 50% of bodyweight x 10-30 yard trips in under 15 minutes. Up hill: SURVIVE!

1 mile run: under 8 minutes

Swim: 50 laps in 25 meter pool, no time limit, no stops.

Rope climb: 30' rope, completely to the top.

That just about covers it...

[raymo]

After reading this I feel WEAK! Good standards though

[MDM]

My list:

Squat: 1.7 times bodyweight x20, Add 100 pounds to it x1. No belt.

Front squat: 1.5 times bodyweight x1.

Deadlift: 2 times bodyweight x20, Add 100 pounds x1. No belt.

Bench: bodyweight x20, add 100 pounds x1.

Overhead press: 90% of your best bench press x1, strict.

Pull-ups: bodyweight x20, all from dead hang. +50 pounds x5.

Dips: bodyweight + 100 pounds x10.

Head Harness: 100 pounds x100 reps front and back.

Atlas stone: bodyweight x1 to platform, no tacky.

Farmers: bdoyweight in each hand x 100 yards, no set-downs.

Log press: bodyweight x10. Any form you want.

Tire flip: 3.5 times bodyweight tire x 5 flips.

Sandbag carry: bodyweight 100 yards, no set downs.

Grippers: #3 or better x 1.

2-hand pinch: bodyweight x1.

Axle deadlift: 2 times bodyweight x1.

Block weight: 50 pound Blob or better x1.

1-hand thick bar: Inch dumbbell x1.

1-hand plate pinch: 2-45s x1, 3-25s x1.

Spike bending: red nail x1.

Strict hammer lever: 10 pounder x1 lever to nose and back up.

Strict plate curl: 35 x1.

Prowler: empty in grass, x 10-30 yard trips in under 15 minutes. On pavement: loaded to 50% of bodyweight x 10-30 yard trips in under 15 minutes. Up hill: SURVIVE!

1 mile run: under 8 minutes

Swim: 50 laps in 25 meter pool, no time limit, no stops.

Rope climb: 30' rope, completely to the top.

That just about covers it...

For the most part I would have to agree with this as its fairly reasonable. I don't meet all of it but hopefully one day I succeed in beating all of those.

[climber511]

All these type posts are impossible to answer of course but they are fun and sometimes interesting. I think by adding in Rick's Bodyweight factoring - we create something more reasonable for everyone and not just the largest among us. Contrary to many people's beliefs - there are some very strong smaller people out in the world for which the numbers in the original post would be nearly world class for competition singles raw and drug free - and ridiculous for 20 rep sets. Any list like this ends up showing the creators bias towards certain types (their own) of lifting also - for example 2 power lifters made up a list and surprise surprise - no snatch or clean and jerk were on it - both lifts which do show strength I believe. An Olympic lifter would probably come up with a quite different list or at least different numbers as would a Strongman competitor. And all would be equally valid as a test - for them. As much as this hurts me - I agree with Rex here - the guys who might be able to do this would never care to try even.

[Guest Bullitt]

It's all relative. To the people I went to High School with that are friends of mine on facebook, I have freak strength. On the gripboard I'm about average. Among a group of hardcore powerlifters or olympic lifters, I'd be looked at as a past my prime weakling. Throw one of those guys in the cage with a gorilla (oh no he didn't ) and they would use them as a throw toy . By the way, did we ever decide if a gorilla could close a BB Universe? Of course you would have to take hand size into consideration.

Anyone that could come close to those lists would be world class super strong. Compared to the average joe walking to his government job in DC, most anybody that has trained for any length of time would be considered exceptionally strong. If I'm wrong then please correct me, but I don't think Andrew Durniat is close to those numbers and I don't know anyone who would say he isn't strong as hell. Same goes for Rick, or Rex, or...

I like Rick's idea on taking bodyweight into account too. I also think age and sex could be factored in.

And if age is taken into account, who is going to say that Raymo or Chris Rice aren't super damn strong? Great list Rick and great thread, but it just made me feel weak and pitiful.

[tselegala]

Trying to define strength through a set of defined tasks is like trying to grab a fistful of wet jello. No one will ever agree to any list as being the ''one an only''. If you are above average at anything you are strong in my book, no need to do 20 reps of anything for that...

[AdamTGlass]

Trying to define strength through a set of defined tasks is like trying to grab a fistful of wet jello. No one will ever agree to any list as being the ''one an only''. If you are above average at anything you are strong in my book, no need to do 20 reps of anything for that...

bingo ^^^^^

Rick I like your new list much better.

Considering how poor most "elite" PL move I see no reason to label people as weak if they can't hit the same push pull and squat. Last week I watched a 650 lbs raw BP'er take 4 minutes to put on his coat...not very impressive. I dont care if a dude can squat 1,000 lbs, if he breaks a sweat tying his shoe laces or is out of breath walking up a flight of stairs he is not healthy and not fit. I'm not a Crossfit fan, but I do agree that wider range fitness assessment is far more valuable than three lift totals.

Literally any movement can be assessed by a weak, average, strong rating...there is no universal measurement and this turns to lowly pissing matches every time it comes up.

[qwerty20]

I think being strong in mind and heart is the real strong.

If you are strong in heart,

no thing will defeat, even great failure.

If you are strong in mind, you'll make friends with

a lot of people who will help you oneday.

[djukac]

I think being strong in mind and heart is the real strong.

If you are strong in heart,

no thing will defeat, even great failure.

If you are strong in mind, you'll make friends with

a lot of people who will help you oneday.

Yes I agree. Strong mind and strong heart is what it counts the most.Iron will

[mightyjoe]

Trying to define strength through a set of defined tasks is like trying to grab a fistful of wet jello. No one will ever agree to any list as being the ''one an only''. If you are above average at anything you are strong in my book, no need to do 20 reps of anything for that...

What is "above average"?

You see what I mean? It's all relative.

[mbcx6pmw]

Rick I like your list although an 8 minute mile is a bit gay. I suppose for someone predominantly into strength it's an indicator of a basic fitness level.

[The Natural]

Rick I like your list although an 8 minute mile is a bit gay. I suppose for someone predominantly into strength it's an indicator of a basic fitness level.

It's a fair number, though, even for a HW. I can usually skate in just under 8:00 without any real trouble, and I weigh about 285 right now.

[Rick Walker]

One of the 275'rs on Elite Fitness did a mile in 15 minutes. 15 minutes.

I think with all the numbers I listed above, 8 minutes is decent. We arent talking about Kenyan's here, just all around STRONG as hell. From the squats, to the overhead, to grip, to lungs and heart. I bet most people couldnt go out and hit an 8 minute mile. The dude that delivered my bedroom furniture had to push it up my driveway with a dolley. 6 trips with the heaviest being about 120 pounds. He nearly died. He was coughing, sweating profusely, and stammering. I thought for sure he was going to fall over right in my driveway. He isnt running an 8 minute mile.

[Jedd Johnson]

Smoker?

[mbcx6pmw]

15 minutes? that's 4mph, I can walk faster than that.

I agree though, someone who can do all the other stuff and an 8 min mile is not a guy whose ice cream you would steal.

I can do a mile in under 6 mins but not sure I can do any of the other stuff on the list maybe I could in fact steal that guy's ice cream though. I'd just have to run a mile away and would then have two minutes to eat it before he arrived. I'll shut up now.

[Scott Styles]

High levels of strength and endurance are not compatible. An 8 minute mile is speedy for someone at those strength levels, who is likely to be muscularly obese.

Watch the video of Marius fighting Tim Sylvia to see what all that strength does to endurance.

[Rick Walker]

Strength without a good gas tank is worthless.

Marius is a great example, good point Scott.

Sometimes you have to sacrafice some strength in order to be fit, and vice versa. I think someone who could accomplish my list would be the poster child for all around beastlyness...

[lifesnotfair]

If we're talking STRENGTH and we're gonna use a running measurement, maybe we should talk about sprint times? 50m or 100m or something? ... marathon runners aren't exactly strong. Sprinters have incredible hip musculature. Some huge guys run very fast 40 yard dashes in the NFL. I bet they can do a mile much faster than 8 minutes too. I think 8 minutes is a pretty low standard even for a heavier guy, I know we're not talking kenyans here, but keep in mind several people have gotten a mile in under 4 minutes... so we're considering good something over twice as bad? An 8 minute mile is a 2:00 minute 400m pace. That is ridiculously slow, even for a heavy guy.. keep in mind the 400m WR is 43 seconds. Sure you have to do it four times to complete the mile, but still with some training it shouldn't be too hard to improve and get below 8 mins.

That said, I understand why you'd want to include an endurance measurement. I liked what SSGLASS said: we can't pretend everyone becomes a crosfitter, but a wider range of fitness measurements is much better than just a couple of lift totals. I guess not everyone thinks like that, but what good is a huge powerlifting total if you can't play a recreational sport with friends or family, can't go for a bike ride with your son, or escape from a hungry bear and climb a tree to save yourself - LOL, sorry I'm making crazy examples now, but you get my point, and if not, just search back to someone who mentioned a huge bencher who took 4 minutes to put on his coat. Heh.

[AP]

I've got to disagree on including the run time thingy, you are the same guys that cost OD his WSM title! Why have a list of outstanding strength feats and then put a terribly mediocre run qualifier in there? Do you get a 'congrats you're a fatbutt' medal if you can do it in under 8 mins?

Look I'm sure there's a little girl in the Ghettos in Sudan who's fighting for an education and is going to become a doctor from harvard medical, she has real strength fine. But for these kind of lists strength should what can you pick up, push, throw far, hit hard, and who can you outarmwrestle.

[Rick Walker]

That is why I called it "my list"...

[John Beatty]

Jim Wendler from Elite Fitness and Paul Carter from Functional Strength blog defined Strong as the following:

-Squat: 500 x20

-Deadlift: 500 x20

-Bench press: 315 x20

-Overhead Press: 315 x1 strict, no leg drive

-Pull-ups: bodyweight + 100 pounds x10

-Dips: bodyweight + 200 pounds x10

-Strict curl: 185 x10

These are to be done with belt/knee sleeves/wrist wraps only, and REGARDLESS of bodyweight.

Thoughts??

A) Can Jim Wendler & Paul Carter do this list? Or any of the items on it (maybe they can, I don't know who they are).

B) I say this list is B.S., I'd consider myself fairly strong, not really elite, but there's not a huge amount of fellas out there that have tried as many different tests of strength as I have. Can the few guys on earth that can accomplish this list close a #3, bend a Bastard, pinch 200lbs, throw a caber or a 56# over a 14' bar, on & on. I think being strong is not just the ability with a bar, but functional power, gym strength, Strongman feats, Grip, all aspects make you strong. Some juiced 28 year old freak that'll be dead or crippled by the time he's 40 has a weak mind. The get there at any cost with no thought for the future is weakness to me.

C) Of this list I can achieve or have achieved the following:

-Squat: 415 x17

-Deadlift: 500 x19

-Bench press: 315 x14

-Overhead Press: 285 x1 strict, no leg drive

-Pull-ups: bodyweight x10

-Dips: bodyweight + 170 pounds x5

-Strict curl: 145 x10

So I'm not strong, I've achieved 0 of these silly things. But I've set state & national records in PL, a WR in Strongman, been top 5 in the world in steelbending, placed top 5 in Pro strongman nats, top 5 in major Grip comps, placed top 5 in HG, and won plenty of comps over the last 19 years on competing. But I can live with that. I'll still be doing it in another 20 years. Just a little slower.

It all depends on the standard one uses.

In my opinion, the strength athletes who would be able to perform those squat and DL feats would not waste their time training with rep ranges that high, as they are probably competitive athletes, either powerlifters or strongmen, more concerned with rep ranges from 1-10. So in a way it is counterproductive to list those as the standards for what is strong, since the only people who could do them would never bother trying.

Most of these 'What is strong?' questions have to be tailored to the audience. Most of the time the audience consists mainly of really dedicated gym rats. The serious competitive athletes are less concerned with "What is strong?", since they already know they are strong, and more concerned with "What do I need to do to win the next competition?"

So for the gym rat crowd, I think those standards are far too high.

DL: 500x10, 600x1

Squat: 500x10, 600x1.

Strict Press: 275x1.

Bench: 315x10, 405x1.

Curl: 135x10 (no cheating)

Dips/Chinups: far too dependent on BW. But if pushed, for chinups, BWx10 for a HW guy, BWx20 for a LW guy. Don't know much about dips.

I think that's a better standard.

As always, the voice of reason, a well written & accurate post. Good numbers for the average lifter. If the guy's 150lbs, an adjustment down, but good numbers.

[John Beatty]

I'll add that if those guys can hit that list, then they're not just strong, but monsters. I know that the dips & pullups would stop most WSM guys cold. And nobody's going to say that those fellas aren't strong.

[mobsterone]

15 minutes? that's 4mph, I can walk faster than that.

I agree though, someone who can do all the other stuff and an 8 min mile is not a guy whose ice cream you would steal.

I can do a mile in under 6 mins but not sure I can do any of the other stuff on the list maybe I could in fact steal that guy's ice cream though. I'd just have to run a mile away and would then have two minutes to eat it before he arrived. I'll shut up now.

LOL. If 3mph is typical walking speed even at 280 I can do the 15min one at a push. I USED to be able to do 6 minute miles but I think I'd be hard pushed to run for a bus at the moment. Sprint... no probs, run any distance... forget it.