Ronnie Coleman Grip Challenge

[The Natural]

The Grip Challenge was a BIG success.

I'll write about it more later on. Some guys on here literally will not believe what happened today.

-Rex

[mightyjoe]

Don't keep us waiting Rex. Me and my sons stayed till about 3:45 and at that

time no one ahd even come close to completing 4 out of 7 events.

Before you and Paul got there me and Cody hung around for several hours trying to

get people to try the Blob50 and the Metroflex DB, again no one came close.

Ron (Hands) Howell tried the Blob50 and couldn't believe it was that hard. His hand

literally swallowed that blob but he couldn't budge it. Same with the Metroflex DB.

I did have a huge bodybuilder no-set close my narrow spread Elite calibrated @ 140

like it wasn't nothing. He actually shut it with 3 fingers because his pinkie wasn't even

on the gripper. I let at least 100 athletes try this gripper and no one besides David shut it.

I handed the gripper to World Arm Wrestling Champ, Michael Todd and he got it within an

half inch. Lindley Keating got it to a 1/4". Many pro arm wrestlers tried my gripper without

any success.

Had a lot of fun but was disappointed I didn't get to see Ronnie. Had to leave early, my son

Cody had a wedding to attend for a friend.

Can't wait to hear what else happened.

[lifesnotfair]

I'll write about it more later on. Some guys on here literally will not believe what happened today.

Duuude! How can you do this to us?? Writing these reports is your DUTY after witnessing something awesome. Now I'm gonna schedule my whole sunday around checking this thread every 10 minutes to see if you've written it

[The Natural]

The Highlights

-Paul and I had a great time. It was a long nine hours and my hands are stiff from doing grip stuff off and on that whole time, but it was worth it.

-At some point we're standing around and a guy from Metroflex comes up and says "Ronnie wants the #3." We bring it over to a booth where Ronnie is taking pictures with people and signing autographs. Paul's got a video of Ronnie Coleman TNS'ing a #3 down to about 1/4", maybe a little under. His hand is way up on the gripper. Paul tried to show him how to set but he had to get back to autographs, etc. Later on, we saw his Bentley parked out front of the exhibit hall. It was parked right in front of the main doors and the license plate said "Mr. O". I snapped a picture of it, along with a picture of me with Ronnie. Fun stuff.

-The challenge was to complete 4 of 7 items to get a free T-shirt. The seven items were: Metroflex Inch, 8 pound hammer deadlift (coin on end), 45 pound hub, #3 gripper, 225 pound 2" V-bar, Blob, and 187 pound RT. Nobody was coming close and we thought the only T-shirt we'd be giving out that day was to Ryan Johnson, who showed up later that afternoon.

Well, out of nowhere this guy named Chase Stroud comes up and does

-The Inch

-The Blob

-45 pound hub

-RT

-V-bar

-Hammer

He just misses the #3, TNS. Paul and I are both surprised. I'm loving it. We talk to him a bit more and find out he doesn't do any grip training. He just trains for looks at a 24 Hour Fitness. Said he weighed 257 pounds that morning. Hands were either the same size or slightly smaller than Paul's hands.

He walked off and Paul and I got to talking. I told Paul "I've heard of guys doing the Inch first time, Blob first time, but I've never heard of a guy who doesn't train grip doing 2 45's the first time."

Well, we go find Chase and bring him back over. Someone starts filming and he does 2 45's, first try, with his left hand. Then he does it with his right! I told him "You are the first guy I've ever heard of doing 2 45's first try. Some guys train for years and still can't do this." He was like "Really?" LOL! Chase is just one more data point for what I've been saying all along: If a guy can do some feat first try, with no training, it's not world class. He's sending the video of this lift to me, and when he does I'll put it on my channel. Chase, you're my hero!

-Rex

[The Natural]

I think the Gripboard should start something called the Chase Stroud Project. It will be to go out into the world, find guys like this, and send them to grip competitions. Nothing could speed up the evolution of the sport any better than this. One easy way to do it would be to set up grip challenges at events like the Ronnie, find the guys who are there just walking around, and then give them information packets about grip competition.

-Rex

[mightyjoe]

I took a pic of Ron Howell's hand with my grandson's hand laying

on top of Ron's.

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?autocom...si&img=8739

Then I took one of my hand and Justice's laying on top of mine for comparison.

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?autocom...si&img=8740

You really have to see and shake Ron's hand to appreciate the size of his hands.

Enjoy!

[lifesnotfair]

Wow, that guy Chase is incredible, specially since he wasn't a huge handed freak!!

[mobsterone]

The Highlights

-Paul and I had a great time. It was a long nine hours and my hands are stiff from doing grip stuff off and on that whole time, but it was worth it.

-At some point we're standing around and a guy from Metroflex comes up and says "Ronnie wants the #3." We bring it over to a booth where Ronnie is taking pictures with people and signing autographs. Paul's got a video of Ronnie Coleman TNS'ing a #3 down to about 1/4", maybe a little under. His hand is way up on the gripper. Paul tried to show him how to set but he had to get back to autographs, etc. Later on, we saw his Bentley parked out front of the exhibit hall. It was parked right in front of the main doors and the license plate said "Mr. O". I snapped a picture of it, along with a picture of me with Ronnie. Fun stuff.

-The challenge was to complete 4 of 7 items to get a free T-shirt. The seven items were: Metroflex Inch, 8 pound hammer deadlift (coin on end), 45 pound hub, #3 gripper, 225 pound 2" V-bar, Blob, and 187 pound RT. Nobody was coming close and we thought the only T-shirt we'd be giving out that day was to Ryan Johnson, who showed up later that afternoon.

Well, out of nowhere this guy named Chase Stroud comes up and does

-The Inch

-The Blob

-45 pound hub

-RT

-V-bar

-Hammer

He just misses the #3, TNS. Paul and I are both surprised. I'm loving it. We talk to him a bit more and find out he doesn't do any grip training. He just trains for looks at a 24 Hour Fitness. Said he weighed 257 pounds that morning. Hands were either the same size or slightly smaller than Paul's hands.

He walked off and Paul and I got to talking. I told Paul "I've heard of guys doing the Inch first time, Blob first time, but I've never heard of a guy who doesn't train grip doing 2 45's the first time."

Well, we go find Chase and bring him back over. Someone starts filming and he does 2 45's, first try, with his left hand. Then he does it with his right! I told him "You are the first guy I've ever heard of doing 2 45's first try. Some guys train for years and still can't do this." He was like "Really?" LOL! Chase is just one more data point for what I've been saying all along: If a guy can do some feat first try, with no training, it's not world class. He's sending the video of this lift to me, and when he does I'll put it on my channel. Chase, you're my hero!

-Rex

For a guy that loves logic and reason more than Spock you must know the reasoning in that line is faulty. You cannot quote nor search out freakish examples of humanity as the reason why or proof thereof that a feat is not world class cos one guy (or a searched for handful) can do them.

That said it's still a Kodak moment. Chase 's yeah.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Whew, these things should really be at every fitness expo.

BTW Rex, there are things called "outliers".

[The Natural]

The Highlights

-Paul and I had a great time. It was a long nine hours and my hands are stiff from doing grip stuff off and on that whole time, but it was worth it.

-At some point we're standing around and a guy from Metroflex comes up and says "Ronnie wants the #3." We bring it over to a booth where Ronnie is taking pictures with people and signing autographs. Paul's got a video of Ronnie Coleman TNS'ing a #3 down to about 1/4", maybe a little under. His hand is way up on the gripper. Paul tried to show him how to set but he had to get back to autographs, etc. Later on, we saw his Bentley parked out front of the exhibit hall. It was parked right in front of the main doors and the license plate said "Mr. O". I snapped a picture of it, along with a picture of me with Ronnie. Fun stuff.

-The challenge was to complete 4 of 7 items to get a free T-shirt. The seven items were: Metroflex Inch, 8 pound hammer deadlift (coin on end), 45 pound hub, #3 gripper, 225 pound 2" V-bar, Blob, and 187 pound RT. Nobody was coming close and we thought the only T-shirt we'd be giving out that day was to Ryan Johnson, who showed up later that afternoon.

Well, out of nowhere this guy named Chase Stroud comes up and does

-The Inch

-The Blob

-45 pound hub

-RT

-V-bar

-Hammer

He just misses the #3, TNS. Paul and I are both surprised. I'm loving it. We talk to him a bit more and find out he doesn't do any grip training. He just trains for looks at a 24 Hour Fitness. Said he weighed 257 pounds that morning. Hands were either the same size or slightly smaller than Paul's hands.

He walked off and Paul and I got to talking. I told Paul "I've heard of guys doing the Inch first time, Blob first time, but I've never heard of a guy who doesn't train grip doing 2 45's the first time."

Well, we go find Chase and bring him back over. Someone starts filming and he does 2 45's, first try, with his left hand. Then he does it with his right! I told him "You are the first guy I've ever heard of doing 2 45's first try. Some guys train for years and still can't do this." He was like "Really?" LOL! Chase is just one more data point for what I've been saying all along: If a guy can do some feat first try, with no training, it's not world class. He's sending the video of this lift to me, and when he does I'll put it on my channel. Chase, you're my hero!

-Rex

For a guy that loves logic and reason more than Spock you must know the reasoning in that line is faulty. You cannot quote nor search out freakish examples of humanity as the reason why or proof thereof that a feat is not world class cos one guy (or a searched for handful) can do them.

That said it's still a Kodak moment. Chase 's yeah.

Research shows that it usually takes at least six years of training to reach a world class level at anything. It would make grip appear awfully bush league if our standards were such that we're the exception to this rule, and that our standard of world class can be achieved by those with NO training.

Everyone hear about how a thread about closing a #3 used to get locked down immediately without video proof, as it was regarded as a world class feat? Yeah...well, the bar continues to rise. It's not that the world is changing. Rather, our knowledge of the world is changing. We're becoming less and less ignorant of what's out there.

-Rex

[The Natural]

Whew, these things should really be at every fitness expo.

BTW Rex, there are things called "outliers".

An outlier found in a sample of just 50 or so is a cause for re-evaluation. To think that Chase is really 1/10^6 would require us to stipulate some really implausible things to explain why he came up as 1/50 at the Ronnie. Of course, you can quibble about the "1/10^6" figure, but even cutting that figure IN HALF and setting world class at 1/500,000 would leave you with a burden of explanation that only a conspiracy theorist could handle.

-Rex

Edited April 19, 2009 by The Natural

[The Mac]

The Highlights

-Paul and I had a great time. It was a long nine hours and my hands are stiff from doing grip stuff off and on that whole time, but it was worth it.

-At some point we're standing around and a guy from Metroflex comes up and says "Ronnie wants the #3." We bring it over to a booth where Ronnie is taking pictures with people and signing autographs. Paul's got a video of Ronnie Coleman TNS'ing a #3 down to about 1/4", maybe a little under. His hand is way up on the gripper. Paul tried to show him how to set but he had to get back to autographs, etc. Later on, we saw his Bentley parked out front of the exhibit hall. It was parked right in front of the main doors and the license plate said "Mr. O". I snapped a picture of it, along with a picture of me with Ronnie. Fun stuff.

-The challenge was to complete 4 of 7 items to get a free T-shirt. The seven items were: Metroflex Inch, 8 pound hammer deadlift (coin on end), 45 pound hub, #3 gripper, 225 pound 2" V-bar, Blob, and 187 pound RT. Nobody was coming close and we thought the only T-shirt we'd be giving out that day was to Ryan Johnson, who showed up later that afternoon.

Well, out of nowhere this guy named Chase Stroud comes up and does

-The Inch

-The Blob

-45 pound hub

-RT

-V-bar

-Hammer

He just misses the #3, TNS. Paul and I are both surprised. I'm loving it. We talk to him a bit more and find out he doesn't do any grip training. He just trains for looks at a 24 Hour Fitness. Said he weighed 257 pounds that morning. Hands were either the same size or slightly smaller than Paul's hands.

He walked off and Paul and I got to talking. I told Paul "I've heard of guys doing the Inch first time, Blob first time, but I've never heard of a guy who doesn't train grip doing 2 45's the first time."

Well, we go find Chase and bring him back over. Someone starts filming and he does 2 45's, first try, with his left hand. Then he does it with his right! I told him "You are the first guy I've ever heard of doing 2 45's first try. Some guys train for years and still can't do this." He was like "Really?" LOL! Chase is just one more data point for what I've been saying all along: If a guy can do some feat first try, with no training, it's not world class. He's sending the video of this lift to me, and when he does I'll put it on my channel. Chase, you're my hero!

-Rex

For a guy that loves logic and reason more than Spock you must know the reasoning in that line is faulty. You cannot quote nor search out freakish examples of humanity as the reason why or proof thereof that a feat is not world class cos one guy (or a searched for handful) can do them.

That said it's still a Kodak moment. Chase 's yeah.

Research shows that it usually takes at least six years of training to reach a world class level at anything. It would make grip appear awfully bush league if our standards were such that we're the exception to this rule, and that our standard of world class can be achieved by those with NO training.

Everyone hear about how a thread about closing a #3 used to get locked down immediately without video proof, as it was regarded as a world class feat? Yeah...well, the bar continues to rise. It's not that the world is changing. Rather, our knowledge of the world is changing. We're becoming less and less ignorant of what's out there.

-Rex

Which research is this? It sounds like you are pulling that line out of your bottom, unless you back it up. I hope you do.

By the way, this whole "argument" revolves around the fact that this really was Chase's first time trying 2 x 45's - you want to put large amounts of money on that?

[TKtheGreek]

The Highlights

-Paul and I had a great time. It was a long nine hours and my hands are stiff from doing grip stuff off and on that whole time, but it was worth it.

-At some point we're standing around and a guy from Metroflex comes up and says "Ronnie wants the #3." We bring it over to a booth where Ronnie is taking pictures with people and signing autographs. Paul's got a video of Ronnie Coleman TNS'ing a #3 down to about 1/4", maybe a little under. His hand is way up on the gripper. Paul tried to show him how to set but he had to get back to autographs, etc. Later on, we saw his Bentley parked out front of the exhibit hall. It was parked right in front of the main doors and the license plate said "Mr. O". I snapped a picture of it, along with a picture of me with Ronnie. Fun stuff.

-The challenge was to complete 4 of 7 items to get a free T-shirt. The seven items were: Metroflex Inch, 8 pound hammer deadlift (coin on end), 45 pound hub, #3 gripper, 225 pound 2" V-bar, Blob, and 187 pound RT. Nobody was coming close and we thought the only T-shirt we'd be giving out that day was to Ryan Johnson, who showed up later that afternoon.

Well, out of nowhere this guy named Chase Stroud comes up and does

-The Inch

-The Blob

-45 pound hub

-RT

-V-bar

-Hammer

He just misses the #3, TNS. Paul and I are both surprised. I'm loving it. We talk to him a bit more and find out he doesn't do any grip training. He just trains for looks at a 24 Hour Fitness. Said he weighed 257 pounds that morning. Hands were either the same size or slightly smaller than Paul's hands.

He walked off and Paul and I got to talking. I told Paul "I've heard of guys doing the Inch first time, Blob first time, but I've never heard of a guy who doesn't train grip doing 2 45's the first time."

Well, we go find Chase and bring him back over. Someone starts filming and he does 2 45's, first try, with his left hand. Then he does it with his right! I told him "You are the first guy I've ever heard of doing 2 45's first try. Some guys train for years and still can't do this." He was like "Really?" LOL! Chase is just one more data point for what I've been saying all along: If a guy can do some feat first try, with no training, it's not world class. He's sending the video of this lift to me, and when he does I'll put it on my channel. Chase, you're my hero!

-Rex

For a guy that loves logic and reason more than Spock you must know the reasoning in that line is faulty. You cannot quote nor search out freakish examples of humanity as the reason why or proof thereof that a feat is not world class cos one guy (or a searched for handful) can do them.

That said it's still a Kodak moment. Chase 's yeah.

Research shows that it usually takes at least six years of training to reach a world class level at anything. It would make grip appear awfully bush league if our standards were such that we're the exception to this rule, and that our standard of world class can be achieved by those with NO training.

Everyone hear about how a thread about closing a #3 used to get locked down immediately without video proof, as it was regarded as a world class feat? Yeah...well, the bar continues to rise. It's not that the world is changing. Rather, our knowledge of the world is changing. We're becoming less and less ignorant of what's out there.

-Rex

your logic is so faulty, but you state it with so much confidence. Your premise is that this guy doesnt train grip. WRONG. He's probably been lifting for countless years (more than your "reasearch shows 6 years") indirectly training his grip. Your entire argument is based on a random person achieving a so called world class feat. This chase guy isnt random just because you dont say you train your grip doenst mean its true.

Despite disagreing with your argument i agree with your conclusion the words world class are thrown around way too much around here. You can only truely appreciate those words if you train to be world class at soemthing and then 5 years of dedication later you relize your not even close and probably never will be. I think that nothing mentioned that the Chase guy did should be considered world class.

Edited April 19, 2009 by TKtheGreek

[vikingsrule92]

The Highlights

-Paul and I had a great time. It was a long nine hours and my hands are stiff from doing grip stuff off and on that whole time, but it was worth it.

-At some point we're standing around and a guy from Metroflex comes up and says "Ronnie wants the #3." We bring it over to a booth where Ronnie is taking pictures with people and signing autographs. Paul's got a video of Ronnie Coleman TNS'ing a #3 down to about 1/4", maybe a little under. His hand is way up on the gripper. Paul tried to show him how to set but he had to get back to autographs, etc. Later on, we saw his Bentley parked out front of the exhibit hall. It was parked right in front of the main doors and the license plate said "Mr. O". I snapped a picture of it, along with a picture of me with Ronnie. Fun stuff.

-The challenge was to complete 4 of 7 items to get a free T-shirt. The seven items were: Metroflex Inch, 8 pound hammer deadlift (coin on end), 45 pound hub, #3 gripper, 225 pound 2" V-bar, Blob, and 187 pound RT. Nobody was coming close and we thought the only T-shirt we'd be giving out that day was to Ryan Johnson, who showed up later that afternoon.

Well, out of nowhere this guy named Chase Stroud comes up and does

-The Inch

-The Blob

-45 pound hub

-RT

-V-bar

-Hammer

He just misses the #3, TNS. Paul and I are both surprised. I'm loving it. We talk to him a bit more and find out he doesn't do any grip training. He just trains for looks at a 24 Hour Fitness. Said he weighed 257 pounds that morning. Hands were either the same size or slightly smaller than Paul's hands.

He walked off and Paul and I got to talking. I told Paul "I've heard of guys doing the Inch first time, Blob first time, but I've never heard of a guy who doesn't train grip doing 2 45's the first time."

Well, we go find Chase and bring him back over. Someone starts filming and he does 2 45's, first try, with his left hand. Then he does it with his right! I told him "You are the first guy I've ever heard of doing 2 45's first try. Some guys train for years and still can't do this." He was like "Really?" LOL! Chase is just one more data point for what I've been saying all along: If a guy can do some feat first try, with no training, it's not world class. He's sending the video of this lift to me, and when he does I'll put it on my channel. Chase, you're my hero!

-Rex

For a guy that loves logic and reason more than Spock you must know the reasoning in that line is faulty. You cannot quote nor search out freakish examples of humanity as the reason why or proof thereof that a feat is not world class cos one guy (or a searched for handful) can do them.

That said it's still a Kodak moment. Chase 's yeah.

Research shows that it usually takes at least six years of training to reach a world class level at anything. It would make grip appear awfully bush league if our standards were such that we're the exception to this rule, and that our standard of world class can be achieved by those with NO training.

Everyone hear about how a thread about closing a #3 used to get locked down immediately without video proof, as it was regarded as a world class feat? Yeah...well, the bar continues to rise. It's not that the world is changing. Rather, our knowledge of the world is changing. We're becoming less and less ignorant of what's out there.

-Rex

your logic is so faulty, but you state it with so much confidence. Your premise is that this guy doesnt train grip. WRONG. He's probably been lifting for countless years (more than your "reasearch shows 6 years") indirectly training his grip. Your entire argument is based on a random person achieving a so called world class feat. This chase guy isnt random just because you dont say you train your grip doenst mean its true.

Despite disagreing with your argument i agree with your conclusion the words world class are thrown around way too much around here. You can only truely appreciate those words if you train to be world class at soemthing and then 5 years of dedication later you relize your not even close and probably never will be. I think that nothing mentioned that the Chase guy did should be considered world class.

I agree with Teddy. Your argument assumes that someone who does no training whatsoever, absolutely zero, towards the desired feat.

Also that statistic seems to be completely faulty. Are you assuming no base strength whatsoever? A lot? Direct training for the feat? Indirect? There are so many questions and just the "fact" seems completely illogical.

[climber511]

The Highlights

-Paul and I had a great time. It was a long nine hours and my hands are stiff from doing grip stuff off and on that whole time, but it was worth it.

-At some point we're standing around and a guy from Metroflex comes up and says "Ronnie wants the #3." We bring it over to a booth where Ronnie is taking pictures with people and signing autographs. Paul's got a video of Ronnie Coleman TNS'ing a #3 down to about 1/4", maybe a little under. His hand is way up on the gripper. Paul tried to show him how to set but he had to get back to autographs, etc. Later on, we saw his Bentley parked out front of the exhibit hall. It was parked right in front of the main doors and the license plate said "Mr. O". I snapped a picture of it, along with a picture of me with Ronnie. Fun stuff.

-The challenge was to complete 4 of 7 items to get a free T-shirt. The seven items were: Metroflex Inch, 8 pound hammer deadlift (coin on end), 45 pound hub, #3 gripper, 225 pound 2" V-bar, Blob, and 187 pound RT. Nobody was coming close and we thought the only T-shirt we'd be giving out that day was to Ryan Johnson, who showed up later that afternoon.

Well, out of nowhere this guy named Chase Stroud comes up and does

-The Inch

-The Blob

-45 pound hub

-RT

-V-bar

-Hammer

He just misses the #3, TNS. Paul and I are both surprised. I'm loving it. We talk to him a bit more and find out he doesn't do any grip training. He just trains for looks at a 24 Hour Fitness. Said he weighed 257 pounds that morning. Hands were either the same size or slightly smaller than Paul's hands.

He walked off and Paul and I got to talking. I told Paul "I've heard of guys doing the Inch first time, Blob first time, but I've never heard of a guy who doesn't train grip doing 2 45's the first time."

Well, we go find Chase and bring him back over. Someone starts filming and he does 2 45's, first try, with his left hand. Then he does it with his right! I told him "You are the first guy I've ever heard of doing 2 45's first try. Some guys train for years and still can't do this." He was like "Really?" LOL! Chase is just one more data point for what I've been saying all along: If a guy can do some feat first try, with no training, it's not world class. He's sending the video of this lift to me, and when he does I'll put it on my channel. Chase, you're my hero!

-Rex

Rex - we've had the "what is World Class" discussion before. I have yet to figure out what is WC and what is not exactly but finding one guy out of thousands who can do all that doesn't change much in my mind. The guy obviously trains hard, is big and strong overall, and may possible have a work history etc to help explain things also. Or he may be (heck is) a genetic anomaly. About the only thing I am convinced of is that WC changes as things advance and more and more people train specifically for and/or get a chance to try all this stuff. A few years ago a Red Nail and closing a #3 was definitely WC - and now they are nice but no big deal feats of strength (at least in the circles we all run in). Lifting the Blob was obviously WC when first done but now that it's being done with significant added weight or with two fingers etc - is it still WC? Ten years from now - I wonder how any of the things we are impressed with now will be talked about? One thing we have to remember Rex is that guys like you, Paul and the rest of the GB etc are comparing ourselves to the best that we know of currently in the world - we have already kind of preselected the yardstick to which we will measure people. It's still a fairly small group of people we're talking about.

[mightyjoe]

VERY, VERY GOOD points Chris.

[mobsterone]

The Highlights

-Paul and I had a great time. It was a long nine hours and my hands are stiff from doing grip stuff off and on that whole time, but it was worth it.

-At some point we're standing around and a guy from Metroflex comes up and says "Ronnie wants the #3." We bring it over to a booth where Ronnie is taking pictures with people and signing autographs. Paul's got a video of Ronnie Coleman TNS'ing a #3 down to about 1/4", maybe a little under. His hand is way up on the gripper. Paul tried to show him how to set but he had to get back to autographs, etc. Later on, we saw his Bentley parked out front of the exhibit hall. It was parked right in front of the main doors and the license plate said "Mr. O". I snapped a picture of it, along with a picture of me with Ronnie. Fun stuff.

-The challenge was to complete 4 of 7 items to get a free T-shirt. The seven items were: Metroflex Inch, 8 pound hammer deadlift (coin on end), 45 pound hub, #3 gripper, 225 pound 2" V-bar, Blob, and 187 pound RT. Nobody was coming close and we thought the only T-shirt we'd be giving out that day was to Ryan Johnson, who showed up later that afternoon.

Well, out of nowhere this guy named Chase Stroud comes up and does

-The Inch

-The Blob

-45 pound hub

-RT

-V-bar

-Hammer

He just misses the #3, TNS. Paul and I are both surprised. I'm loving it. We talk to him a bit more and find out he doesn't do any grip training. He just trains for looks at a 24 Hour Fitness. Said he weighed 257 pounds that morning. Hands were either the same size or slightly smaller than Paul's hands.

He walked off and Paul and I got to talking. I told Paul "I've heard of guys doing the Inch first time, Blob first time, but I've never heard of a guy who doesn't train grip doing 2 45's the first time."

Well, we go find Chase and bring him back over. Someone starts filming and he does 2 45's, first try, with his left hand. Then he does it with his right! I told him "You are the first guy I've ever heard of doing 2 45's first try. Some guys train for years and still can't do this." He was like "Really?" LOL! Chase is just one more data point for what I've been saying all along: If a guy can do some feat first try, with no training, it's not world class. He's sending the video of this lift to me, and when he does I'll put it on my channel. Chase, you're my hero!

-Rex

For a guy that loves logic and reason more than Spock you must know the reasoning in that line is faulty. You cannot quote nor search out freakish examples of humanity as the reason why or proof thereof that a feat is not world class cos one guy (or a searched for handful) can do them.

That said it's still a Kodak moment. Chase 's yeah.

Research shows that it usually takes at least six years of training to reach a world class level at anything. It would make grip appear awfully bush league if our standards were such that we're the exception to this rule, and that our standard of world class can be achieved by those with NO training.

Everyone hear about how a thread about closing a #3 used to get locked down immediately without video proof, as it was regarded as a world class feat? Yeah...well, the bar continues to rise. It's not that the world is changing. Rather, our knowledge of the world is changing. We're becoming less and less ignorant of what's out there.

-Rex

See the underlined word... even you know it USUALLY takes X time. I agree. So one sample does not prove a theory. Indeed a quick read of your reply shows no argument whatsoever to the opposite.

Your man Chase does not train grip - but he does train. I know, as do you, of some WORLD CLASS standard competitive strongmen, bodybuilders and Powerlifters all of whom can 2 hand pinch 90-kilos. Yet a competition level 90 still gets grip guys in the top 15 OF ALL TIME!. But our knowledge of 300-400lb men who are freakishly strong hardly disproves the world class theory.

I also agree with Climber - what is world class does change. Which negates my 90-kilos 2HP view and Rex's challenge set up... or will do in a few years.

To support Rex's 6 year view: I've been train grip 9 years. I think I might be world class (and I can do ALL of the items in his challenge I think (I'll check again later)) many with weight added.

Quick addendum: Some lifts outside of the grip strength remit have stood for 50+ years. These aren't of that standard we call 'world class' but just plain freaky. Joe Roark has listed a few.

Edited April 19, 2009 by mobsterone

[Paul Knight]

Teddy has a good point - he has probably been weight training for 6+ years and has developed a strong grip from it, and Mac, I honestly belive that it could be his first time to try but maybe not

and as far as your numbers Rex - you say ~1/500,000 would be a fair estimate of world class and that sounds resonable, but when you have a gathering like the Arnold or the Ronnie's, the types of people that show up to these kinds of events lower that number drastically. If you setup a grip challenge at the mall or some other public location where everyone there is not strength oriented, that guesstimate (1/500,000) could actually be right ........ in fact - set up a grip challenge in the streets of like China similar to the one we had at the Ronnie and that number may even be higher.

I want to say Chase told me his dad used to be a member of the Power Team, but I may be getting him confused w/someone else, but I think it was Chase that said that.

[Paul Knight]

in addition - he doesn't just train at a 24hr fitness - he comes up and trains w/Branch Warren once a month and from the looks of him, he is on a crap ton of "S word" which can contribute to his freakish strength. It is something interesting to talk about though because I had that though cross my mind after seeing him lift everything - I know it has been discussed before like Chris mentioned, but it must have been discussed before I joined the board or I just missed it (what is WC). I think the simply answer is what Chris said - WC changes as more and more people begin to raise the bar, but for now - we know what we know and that is not many people are doing those lifts and that is why it suprised the shit out of us when he lifted almost everything

[The Mac]

Paul,

I want to add that I am in no way definitely accusing someone of lying or being deceptive, but things do get confused, and without being there there's no way to know if the "right" questions were asked...for example, that could well have been his first try at 2 x 45's, but it doesn't mean that he hasn't done lots and lots of 2 x 35's, added weight or whatever - I really do doubt that it was his first time pinching 2 plates of any kind, which is how I read it - maybe I am confused. But maybe this question was asked, and the evidence just hasn't been presented.

As to any question of what constitutes World Class, I think we just have to go with what is CURRENTLY at that level - Grip may be a new sport, but even established sports can have (for whatever reason) surges in performances.

[climber511]

There's an old saying "the older I get the stronger I was". And while that usually means I misremembered something yet again - it is possible I was world class way back in the day. Of course I only had to pinch 2 - 5# plates to be WC that far back :D

[odin]

Whew, these things should really be at every fitness expo.

BTW Rex, there are things called "outliers".

An outlier found in a sample of just 50 or so is a cause for re-evaluation. To think that Chase is really 1/10^6 would require us to stipulate some really implausible things to explain why he came up as 1/50 at the Ronnie. Of course, you can quibble about the "1/10^6" figure, but even cutting that figure IN HALF and setting world class at 1/500,000 would leave you with a burden of explanation that only a conspiracy theorist could handle.

-Rex

Rex, thanks for the report and for promoting the sport. Congratulations to Chase Stroud, I'm looking forward to the video.

Regarding the 1/50 "sample": let's see, what type of people would go to such an event in the first place, and from that group, would have the temerity to try the challenge? It looks like there are around 10 million people within an hour drive from the event. If the same # (2000) attended as in 2007 (.0002% or 2/10,000 of the local population with the most interest in attending a strength-related event; 50/2000 or 2.5% of this already atypical group (5.0 × 10^-6 haha) chose to try the challenge). It doesn't take much research methodology background or imagination to conclude that this was not a random sample and any results are not remotely generalizable. It is simply a case of self-selection bias. Rex, surely you know this; I guess you are just stirring the pot/trolling/grinding an ax.

Edited April 19, 2009 by odin

[The Natural]

Teddy, Derek, Etc.

Chase said that playing baseball for many years helped his grip, and that he does not use straps on deadlift. My point was that he claims to do no grip specific training, and we all know how big of a difference that makes--"indirect" training of grip is comparitively nothing to serious grip-specific training, as the common phenomenon of huge increases in grip strength when starting grip-specific training shows, even for guys who lifted and played sports all along. You can tell yourself "Oh, he has been training grip for years; he's been playing sports and doesn't use straps!" but I think we all know that's straining.

Steve

Yeah, "usually" six years, as in, six years being the mean and 2-10+ years being the range (Remember, this means six years of SPECIFIC training). Nobody in their right mind would allow the range to start at ZERO. Has anybody achieved an Olympic Gold Medal with NO training? What about a Pulitzer Prize? A Fields Medal? A grandmaster ranking in chess? A Nobel? Even in fields where prodigies are common--music, chess, math, etc.--nobody achieves something genuinely world class with no specific training at all. The prodigies start off at elite and work up from there. That people are so quick to attribute world class feats in grip to those with no training just indicates that grip still has some growing up to do. Remember, the really world class in any field are those with great talent and lots of training. If someone is getting by on just innate ability alone, you can bet that the talent pool is small and that "world-class" really has no place in the vocabulary of those in that field.

Paul

The Ronnie Coleman was not over-run with elite athletes, sorry to say. That wasn't a Mr. Olympia show we watched. That powerlifting comp wasn't an IPF world championship. Most of the guys there were just recreational gym rats who had nothing better to do that Saturday. For every guy who lifted one of the items, I could point out two or three with a pot belly. I agree it was a more strength-oriented class of folks than what you would find at the mall, but nothing nothing of the sort that would explain what we witnessed.

Let me go over this again: 1/500,000 to be world class. Fifty or so guys try the thing before Chase does it. Now, we *could* explain this if we were at an event where many world class guys strength athletes were gathered. The idea with that would be to say that anywhere between 1/10 guys there have a world class grip (a really powerful explanation if true, but not likely to ever be true) to, let's say, 1/5,000 guys ("Iinteresting that we found one of them so fast, but not surprising.") But based on the guys I saw try the challenge, the Ronnie is just not like that. They were for the most part just guys who lifted weights to stay in shape. Even the powerlifters and armwrestlers who showed up to compete did not try the challenge, putting aside how elite they are, so we've got background knowledge that rules out that they tried it. Chase himself admits that he just lifts to look good, be generally strong, etc. As far as I can tell, he's not a national or international level competitior in any strength sport. Just a really strong guy, the sort you find at Metroflex. So if we want to explain it with this, we're going to have to say the Ronnie is something that it just isn't. Chase has an elite grip, no doubt. 1/10,000, let's say. That's much easier to explain and still gives him big props (BIG).

The six years for mastery claim was mentioned in a performance psychology class I took in college, and I've read it before in at least two other places. I might be able to find something online if Google enough.

-Rex

[The Natural]

Which research is this? It sounds like you are pulling that line out of your bottom, unless you back it up. I hope you do.

By the way, this whole "argument" revolves around the fact that this really was Chase's first time trying 2 x 45's - you want to put large amounts of money on that?

“Furthermore, the most compelling evidence for the role of vast experience in expertise is that even the most “talented” individuals require around ten years of intense involvement before they reach an international level, and for most individuals it takes considerably longer. Simon and Chase (1973) originally proposed the Ten-Year Rule, showing that no modern chess master has reached the international level in less than approximately ten years. Subsequent reviews show that the Ten-Year Rule extends to music composition, as well as to sports, science, and the arts (Ericsson et al.: 1993)”

Source

[The Natural]

A good synonym for "reaches the international level" is "world class", in case there was any confusion.

-Rex