Failed Progression With Pullups

[Egolego]

I've started training quite recently (like 2+ months now) and one of the excersizes i do are pullups. The problem is the progression: First 3-4 weeks i went from not being able to do 1 pullup to doing 3 in the first set, but since then im stuck at 3! My first training method was just doing as many full/half pullups as i could in each set with around 1 min rest between and when i could barely lift myself i did some negatives at the end. Since that seemed to not cut it lately, I've been only doing full movements sets (for example if i feel i can do 2½ pullup this set i only do 2) then when i can't do 1 full pullup i start with 10-seconds negatives till i can't do negatives anymore. The next time i try to beat previous days record and if i can't do it in the same amount of sets and time, i take an extra long break till i can do 1 full pullup more (i got this idea from "Captains of Crush Grippers: What They Are and How to Close Them" by J. B. Kinney, where he does kinda the same thing with his grip training)

I don't know if this is right but i judge last days training effectiveness by if i can feel soreness/stiffness in my muscles and for the last weeks i have barely felt anything like that in my lats. This with barely any improvements of the reps in the first set makes me believe im doing something wrong and it's kinda depressing If there is anyone who can tell me if I'm on the wrong path or not it would be greatly appreciated...

[eltorrente]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you - and MANY other people, for that matter. It seems that pullups are just plain tough to progress at, especially in the early stages.

Going from 3-4 pullups is an increase of 33%.. so obviously that's no easy feat - but going from 10-11 is "only" 10%.

I can only get 3 "good" pullups, also. I can get more if I cheat and kick my legs, but I don't want that. What I've been doing is to do 1 pullup at a time with 30seconds rest in between - and do as many as I can until I get to 10. I DON'T get to 10 though, I usually fail on the 5th or 6th one, then I do jumping pullups with slow negatives to finish out. I think I'll do this for another month or so, then I'll start doing 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1 or something like that with 30seconds rest between. After a while I'll work up to maybe 4,3,2,1 or something like that.

I would like to do more on my off days, but I don't want to interfere with my normal workouts - so I think as long as I stick to some sort of plan that it'll eventually work out for me.

[andyfreeland]

What works for me is set a total number and don't stop until you get there. Example: Start with 25, and do as many sets/reps as it takes until you get to 25 pullups. Then simply go higher every workout. When I start my pullup workout I start with 25 2x per week then go to 30 2x per week then 35 and so on. You will be doing sets of 10 in no time

[egg_uk]

or search for the fighter pullup program

[AP]

How many times per week are you doing pullups?

I would do pull ups just like I would train any lift, cycle the resistance over several weeks and if needed add some assistance work also. Since you can only do 2-3 pull ups max you may need to do some pulldowns on a machine or set up some bands to assist so you can get some rep work in. I'd also set up a dipping belt so you can do pull ups with added weight. Lastly, I like doing some work standing on a block, so you are doing a half rep but it is the top half. You should be able to get more reps/weight standing on the block.

So some simple workouts might look like:

wk1: Bodyweight minus some weight so you can get 3 sets of 7

wk2: Bodyweight minus just a little so you can get 3 sets of 5 reps

wk3: Bodyweight, 3 sets of 2

wk4: standing on a block, bodyweight + however much so you can get 3 sets of 3

Then restart either using more weight or adjusting the rep ranges. This is more for once a week pull up work, if you wanted to work them twice a week you could standing on a block on the second day or a pull up variation like a different grip.

If you are going to go to an everyday or several days a week routine be careful. Too much work and you can end up with serious elbow and shoulder pain.

[AP]

Oh and so you know I've done a pullup with 100lbs added at 210 bodyweight and a 20 rep set at about 200, not world class but decent. Cycling the weight has always worked for me but I know there are a lot of different ways that work to improve pull ups.

[lifesnotfair]

I personally have not used this method, but I have read TONS of people swearing by it... Try googling "Grease the groove". Basically, you do sub-maximal efforts throughout the day. If your max pull-ups is 3, then you'd probably do 1 rep throughout the day... MANY times. Just everytime you walk by a pullup bar (or any ledge you could do pullups from), you do a rep. Some people swear by GTG when it comes to increasing reps. Try reading the Pavel article on this.

I wouldn't try a weighted pull-up until you're doing at least 10 unweighted reps, but that's just me.

[BroodingMoon]

What worked for me when I started training pull-ups was this:

Start by doing chin-ups (supinated grip) lowering yourself to a 90 degree elbow angle. These are alot easier by comparison and you will progress reasonably quickly. Once you can get 8-10 reps doing this, start doing the next 45 degrees (135 total elbow angle) of the chin-up until you get back to 8-10 reps. Next do full range chin-ups until you get 8-10 rep sets. Finally change to pull-ups (pronated grip). Once you are getting higher rep sets you will find it easier to progress.

I definitely agree with greasing the groove, try to do 40-60% of your max reps each time, several times throughout the day.

I would also suggest trying to do as many different types of pull-ups as you can, change the grip you use and change the width of your hands. I highly recommend learning to do kipping pull-ups once you are confident in the exercise, these are incredibly functional. I found excellent carryover to my strict pull-ups maximum when doing these for a few weeks. For example, set yourself 100 kipping pull-ups and do them all as fast as you can, doesn't matter about sets/reps. If you start to struggle you can change to jumping pull-ups instead.

Good luck in your training

[eltorrente]

How should these be fit into a normal workout program? I workout 3 times a week, and am worried about over-doing it on the off days.

Also, where should these be put into the workout itself? Early in the workout, to make sure I'm fresh, or later to make sure it doesn't exhaust me for the "big" lifts? I personally have been doing them at my third exercise, which is either bench or press, which I alternate on workouts (after squats). Sometimes I think maybe I should do more sets, or maybe wait longer between reps/sets - but I don't want to lose momentum and cool down too much - or exhaust my arms/back - before my other lifts and subsequent grip work.

Any thoughts on this?

Edited March 29, 2009 by eltorrente

[jomcgui]

Sometimes i used to work pull ups into a cardio routine like jump rope for 1 min than do x amount of pullups. Also try negatives. Just slowly lower from top position. There is an article somewhere about a good way to do pullups I think it had to do with ladders. Might be on the dragon door article section of their website. Try this page several articles on pull ups

http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode2/Workouts

Edited March 29, 2009 by jomcgui

[Egolego]

Thanks for the tips guys, i got new things to try now I usually do pullups 3 times a week (working upper body 3 days/week and lower body 3 days/week) and as Broodingmoon said chin-ups are easier but i get pain in my front deltoids when i do them so i'll probably have to wait till my body gets stronger.

[BroodingMoon]

How should these be fit into a normal workout program? I workout 3 times a week, and am worried about over-doing it on the off days.

Also, where should these be put into the workout itself? Early in the workout, to make sure I'm fresh, or later to make sure it doesn't exhaust me for the "big" lifts? I personally have been doing them at my third exercise, which is either bench or press, which I alternate on workouts (after squats). Sometimes I think maybe I should do more sets, or maybe wait longer between reps/sets - but I don't want to lose momentum and cool down too much - or exhaust my arms/back - before my other lifts and subsequent grip work.

Any thoughts on this?

I don't think there is a 'right' way to incorporate them, but in the beginning I used to do pull-ups on the same day I did bench press, but it was an auxilliary exercise rather than a main focus so I did them at the end. I did back squats, bench press, deadlifts and then pull-ups + dips. This was ok because the previous exercises don't use the biceps/lats except for stability.

Nowadays I put strict pull-ups in my warm-up, so for example overhead squats, pull-ups, dips, good mornings, GHD sit-ups as a circuit 2 or 3 times. Then I do a couple of minutes of stretching and then go into the workout. If this includes pull-ups that day I will tend to do 5 sets or more supersetted with other exercises. Supersetting them with something like dips, squats, sit-ups etc will give you more time between sets and at the same time you won't lose momentum.

Hopefully this gives you some ideas for your programming, but I'm no expert, you should tweak things until you feel comfortable. Every few weeks mix it up a bit to keep your body guessing.

[eltorrente]

How should these be fit into a normal workout program? I workout 3 times a week, and am worried about over-doing it on the off days.

Also, where should these be put into the workout itself? Early in the workout, to make sure I'm fresh, or later to make sure it doesn't exhaust me for the "big" lifts? I personally have been doing them at my third exercise, which is after either bench or press, which I alternate on workouts (after squats). Sometimes I think maybe I should do more sets, or maybe wait longer between reps/sets - but I don't want to lose momentum and cool down too much - or exhaust my arms/back - before my other lifts and subsequent grip work.

Any thoughts on this?

I don't think there is a 'right' way to incorporate them, but in the beginning I used to do pull-ups on the same day I did bench press, but it was an auxilliary exercise rather than a main focus so I did them at the end. I did back squats, bench press, deadlifts and then pull-ups + dips. This was ok because the previous exercises don't use the biceps/lats except for stability.

Nowadays I put strict pull-ups in my warm-up, so for example overhead squats, pull-ups, dips, good mornings, GHD sit-ups as a circuit 2 or 3 times. Then I do a couple of minutes of stretching and then go into the workout. If this includes pull-ups that day I will tend to do 5 sets or more supersetted with other exercises. Supersetting them with something like dips, squats, sit-ups etc will give you more time between sets and at the same time you won't lose momentum.

Hopefully this gives you some ideas for your programming, but I'm no expert, you should tweak things until you feel comfortable. Every few weeks mix it up a bit to keep your body guessing.

Good advice - thanks a lot.

One thing I've noticed in my research, is that noone really has the "perfect" routine, and everyone tackles it a bit differently. The common denominator though, is to just DO them. As long as I'm following some sort of plan, I should break through the barrier eventually.

I think what I'm going to do is to keep my original plan, which is to do 10 with 30seconds between reps, and do negatives when I can't get anymore - which will be after bench or press. In addition to that though, I'm going to add a single pullup in between all of my grip/wrist/forearm exercises - which come right after my normal weight routine. Since I can only do 3 consecutive pullups, just doing 1 in between those exercises should be good I think.

Every few weeks I'll max out on a Sunday (Sat and Sun are my rest days), and once I can do 4+ real ones - from a dead hang - I'll bump up my numbers to 2 at a time with 30 seconds rest between, and 2 in between all of my grip/forearm exercises.

I don't know how long it'll take to actually get to 5.. it's crazy how tough it is. I've been increasing my bench, squat, press, deadlift, and others steadily and am feeling really good about those - but the damn pullups are so tough.

[ealonzo]

Just focus on heavy weighted pullups. It will translate best into a high number of pullups. If weighted pullups cannot be accomplished i suggest you look up "frenchies". Theyre pullups locked off for a certain amount of time in the top portion, 90 degree angle portion, and 135 degree angle portion of the pullup, to a dead hang. 5 seconds in each position is great. Once these are easy get used to weighting these, or go to widegrip pullups. 1.5 shoulder width is good. 2 is great.

As for a program, weighted frenchies and weighted widegrips (behind the head is best) will help translate the best to being able to do one arm chins and all that jazz. Just be sure to warm up properly to avoid horrible rotator cuff injuries, which can occur with widegrips behind the head. I suggest you go to www.beastskills.com and look at the one arm chinup in the tutorials section

[Number Ten Ox]

What worked for me was switching to kipping pullups for awhile. You'll use more muscles, be able to do more reps, increase your power output and it will translate to more strict pullups. Kinda like switching to a pushpress to train your strict press.

[VahnCruz]

I switched to wide grip pullups when I stopped progressing on standard pullups, when these get easy I'll start adding weight.

[ealonzo]

I switched to wide grip pullups when I stopped progressing on standard pullups, when these get easy I'll start adding weight.

You should start weighting them as soon as possible, even if its 2.5 lbs. You must focus on increasing maximal strength to get the reps you want.

[Magnus]

Bah...real men do rows

Edited March 31, 2009 by Magnus

[VahnCruz]

I switched to wide grip pullups when I stopped progressing on standard pullups, when these get easy I'll start adding weight.

Ha I'm mainly just cheap and am putting off buying a belt I do have a 25lb weight vest I use occasionally...or I'll hook my feet through my kettlebell and do some

[AdamTGlass]

or search for the fighter pullup program

I second that

[acorn]

Hard to go wrong with Pavel's GTG (grease the groove). I've used it successfully on many different lifts. It does work particularly well with pullups though.

- Aaron

[djulian]

What sucks about pull-ups is that as you get stronger and gain more muscle, your increased mass makes it harder to pull against gravity. Unless you are shedding unneccessary fat.

[Pancake Sprawl]

i'm about 330lbs now and just that extra 5lbs i can really feel it when i try pull ups.

[kyle102887]

I had the same problem I went from 10 pull ups (BW) to 10 pull ups (115# added) in like 3 months. And then bam....stuck there. I'm going to try some of this stuff to see what works for me.

All neutral grip pull ups (for armwrestling)

[ealonzo]

What sucks about pull-ups is that as you get stronger and gain more muscle, your increased mass makes it harder to pull against gravity. Unless you are shedding unneccessary fat.

That's why I stress gaining maximal strength and forgetting about getting those reps. Reps induce hypertrophy which leads to gained mass and not necessarily strength. When you can do pullups with say, 100 pounds attatched for maybe 2 reps or something, you can for sure pump out about 30 - 40 pullups in a row, depending on grip strength.