How To Kick Start A Stalled Out Over Head Press

[dageda]

I have a quick question for the heavy pressers on this board.

For the month of January I had been making steady (although small) gains on my max effort overhead press. Recently however, I've noticed that my gains have completely stopped and I'm starting to develop pain in my left shoulder. I am a novice to any kind of pressing and would consider myself amateur at best.

My routine looks like this:

- max effort pressing exercise (could be BTN press, military press.. etc.) - 10 sets of singles or doubles

- dips with weight attached to dipping belt - 4 sets of 10

- bent rows - 4 sets of 10

The second day of pressing in the same week, is almost identical except that I do the pressing exercise for speed as a dynamic exercise.

How do you kickstart a stalled over head press? What kinds of weaknesses / instabilities did you look for and how did you fix them?

[Wes]

Stop doing it for a while and try incline or steep inclines

[aklifta907]

Stop doing it for a while and try incline or steep inclines

I will throw on more weight than I can press and then cheat it up, like a push press and then do negatives fighting the weight from coming down. After a few weeks of forced push presses with more weight than usuall and doing hard negatives on the way down my press number always go up. Thats option 1, option 2 could be that you need a little break from direct overhead pressing. As stated previously, do some other excercises that are not a overhead press, but will train similiar muscles involved in the press ie. Incline presses, 1 arm snatches make my overhead stronger as well as Turkish get ups for heavy singles.

[Patriot]

Im an overhead junkie. ...its my favorite thing to do. I have put 450lbs overhead in the jerk.

Feel free to pm me, and I would be happy to try to help you out.

[JohanB]

First of all, I´m a powerlifter so I seldom press overhead but I recently made a nice PR in the pushpress and I did it like this.

I skipped all heavy direct shoulder work for well over two months and concentrated on light shoulder exercises primarily for the rear shoulders. I also included lots of very light exercises for my rotator cuffs. It´s important that you know that I have had shoulder problems for years due to heavy training and a butt load of martial arts. But when I dropped the heavy shoulderwork and concentrated on my weak aereas (rear shoulder and rotator cuff) my shoulders healed upp nicley!

During this period I also did lots and lots of triceps work, not with the intention to press more over head but to increase my bench press. My triceps responded well.

After doing this for over two monts I just worked my way back into pushpresses again for a minicycle (4 weeks) and hit a 10kg PR easy during the last week. My pushpress went fron 125 to 135kg and I had a little more in the tank.

I pushpress with a narrow grip, if I go wide, my shoulders will ache real bad and I have to pushpress since I cant press the first cm of the chest without irritating my shoulders. I still do lots of light exercises for rear shoulders and the rotator cuffs as rehab/prehab training.

Did that make any sense.. ah well =)

[Pancake Sprawl]

First of all, I´m a powerlifter so I seldom press overhead but I recently made a nice PR in the pushpress and I did it like this.

I skipped all heavy direct shoulder work for well over two months and concentrated on light shoulder exercises primarily for the rear shoulders. I also included lots of very light exercises for my rotator cuffs. It´s important that you know that I have had shoulder problems for years due to heavy training and a butt load of martial arts. But when I dropped the heavy shoulderwork and concentrated on my weak aereas (rear shoulder and rotator cuff) my shoulders healed upp nicley!

During this period I also did lots and lots of triceps work, not with the intention to press more over head but to increase my bench press. My triceps responded well.

After doing this for over two monts I just worked my way back into pushpresses again for a minicycle (4 weeks) and hit a 10kg PR easy during the last week. My pushpress went fron 125 to 135kg and I had a little more in the tank.

I pushpress with a narrow grip, if I go wide, my shoulders will ache real bad and I have to pushpress since I cant press the first cm of the chest without irritating my shoulders. I still do lots of light exercises for rear shoulders and the rotator cuffs as rehab/prehab training.

Did that make any sense.. ah well =)

what kind of exercises are you doing for your rear shoulder and rotator cuff? i've had some problems with my shoulders because i had and still have somewhat a big muscle imbalance from when i was young and stupid and used to bench press a lot. so the front of my shoulders are big and the back of them were somewhat atrophied, now that i've been doing a lot of rowing it has helped a great deal, i just wondered if you had any new exercises i could try, thanks.

[dageda]

@ Wes - Thanks for your feedback! I would love to do incline and steep incline presses however I find myself without a bench or even an adjustable bench. I think I'll have to save up for that soon!

@ Alaska-Grip - Thanks! The push-press is new to me but I totally understand why it would be so effective. How do you usually perform the cheat presses? Do you do them in the safety of a squat cage or do you do them free standing outside the cage? I will try your suggestions as they sound very effective.

@ Ernie-Beef - I've had a look at some of your YouTube videos and WOW that's a lot of weight put overhead. I'll be PM'ing you shortly.

@ JohanB - Excellent feedback!! It's funny because the things you suggest are ideas that have been bouncing around the back of my head for a while. I had this idea to do 5 light shoulder pre-hab exercises in a circuit style workout in order to build flexibility / mobility and strength to ALL parts of the shoulder and then lay off the heavy overhead work for a while. I was also going to focus on strengthening the triceps through heavy weighted dips and the upper back with bent rows. This just confirms my thoughts! I understand what you mean about the first couple inches of any press. If I don't cheat and do it strict it bothers my shoulders as well. And yes.. this did make sense. haha

[dageda]

@ Pancake-Sprawl - I'm no expert, but from the research I've been doing I would focus on the bent row for your rear shoulders / upper back area and the Cuban press for your rotator cuffs. If you're not sure what a Cuban press is (I wasn't sure what this was either) go to YouTube and look it up. Definitely NOT an exercise you can do with lots of weight.

[wscorpion]

Give strict (no leg drive) single dumbbell presses a try for a few weeks, you'll probably notice your MP and PP go through the roof afterwards

Here's an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFcRma5-C3M

Mark

Edited February 13, 2009 by White Scorpion

[DAN PRAYDIS]

Im an overhead junkie. ...its my favorite thing to do. I have put 450lbs overhead in the jerk.

Feel free to pm me, and I would be happy to try to help you out.

great overhead lifts ernie hope you make a full comeback

[Patriot]

Thanks a lot Dan...The Lord has Blessed me with being stronger now then ever! So I feel Blessed to have made a full comeback. Thanks for the kind words.

[ealonzo]

Do alot of handstand work to strengthen the rotator cuff muscles. Hold a handstand against a wall for 10 minutes 2 times a week, and see how much your press improves. Make sure youre completely straight, and as you get stronger, do shoulder taps, so that for a moment, youre in a one handed handstand. one arm should be on the ground, the other touching your shoulder, then bring it back down to the ground and do the opposite with the other arm.

[ginroth]

Do alot of handstand work to strengthen the rotator cuff muscles. Hold a handstand against a wall for 10 minutes 2 times a week, and see how much your press improves. Make sure youre completely straight, and as you get stronger, do shoulder taps, so that for a moment, youre in a one handed handstand. one arm should be on the ground, the other touching your shoulder, then bring it back down to the ground and do the opposite with the other arm.

As soon as I saw you posted in this thread I knew it was going to have something to do with handstands.

[ealonzo]

Do alot of handstand work to strengthen the rotator cuff muscles. Hold a handstand against a wall for 10 minutes 2 times a week, and see how much your press improves. Make sure youre completely straight, and as you get stronger, do shoulder taps, so that for a moment, youre in a one handed handstand. one arm should be on the ground, the other touching your shoulder, then bring it back down to the ground and do the opposite with the other arm.

As soon as I saw you posted in this thread I knew it was going to have something to do with handstands.

haha if i could, id walk on my hands everywhere

[Magnus]

what kind of exercises are you doing for your rear shoulder and rotator cuff? i've had some problems with my shoulders because i had and still have somewhat a big muscle imbalance from when i was young and stupid and used to bench press a lot. so the front of my shoulders are big and the back of them were somewhat atrophied, now that i've been doing a lot of rowing it has helped a great deal, i just wondered if you had any new exercises i could try, thanks.

Chris, have you tried neutral-grip T-bar rows? Hits my back and rear/medial delts completely different than BB/DB rows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muc63HSmqCQ

[Magnus]

Thanks a lot Dan...The Lord has Blessed me with being stronger now then ever! So I feel Blessed to have made a full comeback. Thanks for the kind words.

Holy cow! Your 440 overhead video is insane! :bow

[arande2]

Thanks a lot Dan...The Lord has Blessed me with being stronger now then ever! So I feel Blessed to have made a full comeback. Thanks for the kind words.

Holy cow! Your 440 overhead video is insane! :bow

And I noticed he likes Pantera

[Pancake Sprawl]

what kind of exercises are you doing for your rear shoulder and rotator cuff? i've had some problems with my shoulders because i had and still have somewhat a big muscle imbalance from when i was young and stupid and used to bench press a lot. so the front of my shoulders are big and the back of them were somewhat atrophied, now that i've been doing a lot of rowing it has helped a great deal, i just wondered if you had any new exercises i could try, thanks.

Chris, have you tried neutral-grip T-bar rows? Hits my back and rear/medial delts completely different than BB/DB rows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muc63HSmqCQ

i would but i train at my house and i don't have that machine, but i do the ones he does at 4 minutes into the vid with dumbells, and it has helped me a great deal. also pull ups have been really adding mass to my back quickly

[ginroth]

what kind of exercises are you doing for your rear shoulder and rotator cuff? i've had some problems with my shoulders because i had and still have somewhat a big muscle imbalance from when i was young and stupid and used to bench press a lot. so the front of my shoulders are big and the back of them were somewhat atrophied, now that i've been doing a lot of rowing it has helped a great deal, i just wondered if you had any new exercises i could try, thanks.

Chris, have you tried neutral-grip T-bar rows? Hits my back and rear/medial delts completely different than BB/DB rows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muc63HSmqCQ

i would but i train at my house and i don't have that machine, but i do the ones he does at 4 minutes into the vid with dumbells, and it has helped me a great deal. also pull ups have been really adding mass to my back quickly

You don't need a machine for t-bar rows, just shove one end of the barbell in the corner and row to your heart's content!

[Pancake Sprawl]

what kind of exercises are you doing for your rear shoulder and rotator cuff? i've had some problems with my shoulders because i had and still have somewhat a big muscle imbalance from when i was young and stupid and used to bench press a lot. so the front of my shoulders are big and the back of them were somewhat atrophied, now that i've been doing a lot of rowing it has helped a great deal, i just wondered if you had any new exercises i could try, thanks.

Chris, have you tried neutral-grip T-bar rows? Hits my back and rear/medial delts completely different than BB/DB rows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muc63HSmqCQ

i would but i train at my house and i don't have that machine, but i do the ones he does at 4 minutes into the vid with dumbells, and it has helped me a great deal. also pull ups have been really adding mass to my back quickly

You don't need a machine for t-bar rows, just shove one end of the barbell in the corner and row to your heart's content!

LOL ...i didn't think of that thanks!

[Magnus]

what kind of exercises are you doing for your rear shoulder and rotator cuff? i've had some problems with my shoulders because i had and still have somewhat a big muscle imbalance from when i was young and stupid and used to bench press a lot. so the front of my shoulders are big and the back of them were somewhat atrophied, now that i've been doing a lot of rowing it has helped a great deal, i just wondered if you had any new exercises i could try, thanks.

Chris, have you tried neutral-grip T-bar rows? Hits my back and rear/medial delts completely different than BB/DB rows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muc63HSmqCQ

i would but i train at my house and i don't have that machine, but i do the ones he does at 4 minutes into the vid with dumbells, and it has helped me a great deal. also pull ups have been really adding mass to my back quickly

You don't need a machine for t-bar rows, just shove one end of the barbell in the corner and row to your heart's content!

LOL ...i didn't think of that thanks!

Yep, he's righth. But, put a dumbbell on the other end, too, cuz in the case that the other end does slip...well, you get the picture

I made a little setup for mine that I attached to the wall. I welded a hinge together, welded a piece of pipe to that, and then just slip the bar into the

end. Works nice. I'll throw a pic on.

[ginroth]

what kind of exercises are you doing for your rear shoulder and rotator cuff? i've had some problems with my shoulders because i had and still have somewhat a big muscle imbalance from when i was young and stupid and used to bench press a lot. so the front of my shoulders are big and the back of them were somewhat atrophied, now that i've been doing a lot of rowing it has helped a great deal, i just wondered if you had any new exercises i could try, thanks.

Chris, have you tried neutral-grip T-bar rows? Hits my back and rear/medial delts completely different than BB/DB rows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muc63HSmqCQ

i would but i train at my house and i don't have that machine, but i do the ones he does at 4 minutes into the vid with dumbells, and it has helped me a great deal. also pull ups have been really adding mass to my back quickly

You don't need a machine for t-bar rows, just shove one end of the barbell in the corner and row to your heart's content!

LOL ...i didn't think of that thanks!

Yep, he's righth. But, put a dumbbell on the other end, too, cuz in the case that the other end does slip...well, you get the picture

I made a little setup for mine that I attached to the wall. I welded a hinge together, welded a piece of pipe to that, and then just slip the bar into the

end. Works nice. I'll throw a pic on.

There's a lot of quoting going on in this thread.

[maidenfan]

Heres a drill from Chris Rice (hope you dont mind me sharing Chris) to develop bar speed - pretty cool idea.

"When I was missing all my jerks I came up with banded front squat jumps. I'd load up the bar to just around my goal weight - add a moderate to heavy amount of bands - then dip and explode. I called them jumps but it was way to heavy to leave the ground - it was necessary to hold the perfect jerk position and keep the bar exactly in place to get the drive transmitted plus the weight and heavy eccentric loading and explosion that seems to do it - I never missed a competition jerks after including them. The bar of course never left my shoulders - it taught me proper drive then I used other movements to work the rest of the motion."

[timiacobucci]

Heres a drill from Chris Rice (hope you dont mind me sharing Chris) to develop bar speed - pretty cool idea.

"When I was missing all my jerks I came up with banded front squat jumps. I'd load up the bar to just around my goal weight - add a moderate to heavy amount of bands - then dip and explode. I called them jumps but it was way to heavy to leave the ground - it was necessary to hold the perfect jerk position and keep the bar exactly in place to get the drive transmitted plus the weight and heavy eccentric loading and explosion that seems to do it - I never missed a competition jerks after including them. The bar of course never left my shoulders - it taught me proper drive then I used other movements to work the rest of the motion."

So let me see if I am understanding this right, you take a pretty heavy jerk weight and load bands on it. Then holding the bar in the top of a front squat you dip and drive like you are trying to jerk it. But it never actually goes anywhere because of the bands? It just works the initial drive into the jerk, correct?

[dageda]

Wow, there are lots of very helpful suggestions here! Thanks everyone for your feedback!