My Complaints About Equipped Powerlifting

[John Beatty]

I did my first PL meet in 1991. Just a DL meet, I was a non-dieted 198 (bwt 187). Back then I didn't have a suit, and opened with a 465 DL (and almost fell off the platform backwards when pulled it so fast - lots of first timer adrenaline). One of the experienced lifters let me borrow a Z-suit. He was a 242. I didn't notice any change, but maybe a little more adrenaline, they got me my first ammonia cap, too. My PR prior to that meet was 495, I pulled 535. I bought a Marathon Supersuit & an Inzer Blast shirt, both were too big. The Marathon suit was perfect when I was about 215. The shirt never gave me more than 10-20 lbs, and I think that was more contest adrenaline. I never put the gear on in training.

The most I got out of gear was an Inzer HD shirt (the first level above the basic Blast Shirt). I got 445 in a comp when I'd never finished a 405 in the gym. I have a wide flat chest & very long arms, so I get a lot out of the shirt, usually if I can get it moving, my tri's will finish it. The shirt gets it moving. I have no doubt at all that I could get 600+ if I got a Fury or Rage type shirt, and I still suck at raw benching, 415 double & 375 for 5 are my best sets. All I need is a good spring at the start & I can lock a LOT.

The top benchers are getting 300+ out of shirts, which is a joke. Same with squats. I think Kirk K & maybe Eddie are of the few approaching 1000 raw, I'm not up to date, though, on PL. I bet there's not a handful of 900 plus raw guys, but there's dozens of 1000, 1100, 1200 squatters geared. Again, crap.

I liked Eddie (definitely a hero of mine) before I ever met him, as most of his DL's were in a singlet, not a suit. 900+ in a singlet & belt, at 220. That's a pull. His favorite wraps were Marathon Double Goldlines (which are nothing compared to today's wraps), I gave him his last new pair. He wore single ply suits, and his best (according to him, it was actually his second best, but he felt it was his best) ever squat was in a ratty, four year old suit that was full of runs. Eddie never got the hang of shirts, though, he'd only get 20 lbs or so out of them, he hated shirts.

When you get down to it, the strongest guys out will be the strongest in, but in the middle, stronger ungeared or lightly geared guys will many times be beaten by weaker heavily geared guys. I was almost beaten by a guy at a meet many years ago that hit an 830 squat on a pair of briefs, half suit, and double ply canvas (watched him get shoehorned into it), then he benched 385, and pulled low 500 range, I think 530. He couldn't get into the hole with 800.

Josh-

If you want to do some fun, just throw a decent shirt on, make sure you have experienced guys to help you into it, I'll bet with a mid level shirt you'll throw on 50-75 lbs over your max. We should have tried one on you after the BBB, I've got a couple that would fit you I bet.

[Bill Piche]

So here I am about to return another deadlift suit because it doesn't fit. Restocking fee, and it's going to cost me too much for comfort. And I got to thinking about all of the reasons why I have had it with equipped powerlifting:

1) The suits and shirts are overpriced.

2) It takes a long time to find equipment that fits. Even more time to adjust to the equipment.

3) It allows weak people to compete with strong people. I know a guy who can't bench 225 raw, and he gets 360 in competition with a shirt. Sad.

4) Related to 3), it gives people with a loser-mentality an excuse for missing a lift. "My shirt wasn't tight enough". "My suit straps were too far in". Yada yada. A lifter should risk more and give himself as few excuses to lose as possible. That means lifting raw, where there is no equipment excuse available.

Anyway, fed up with it. I'm lifting raw in the WABDL meet. Tired of playing the silly equipment game.

-Rex

Bravo!

[mobsterone]

Just to add to the mix... I helped (spotting and loading) at a drug free event earlier this year and was amazed to see the light weight guys with bench shirts on barely making 100-kilos/220lbs. More addled brain was 'why bother'. The shirt alone will have cost more than the entry fee and value of whatever trophy they won. I'm hoping to hit 418lbs with the same wrist wraps and knee sleeves (cos the elbow ones are too damn small), brought from Boots the chemist so no ATP etc I've worn the last 3 years. Neither sleeve is the same brand and the right is tighter than the left. They just help support me and keep my elbows nice n warm.

If I ever got a shirt if would have to be an open back kind cos I doubt I'd get my giant noggin through the head hole on most.

[The Mac]

Steve, you'd certainly have to take your glasses off.

Generally, I don't see the point in moaning about geared vs raw lifting anymore - if enough people cared about it more money would go into raw events (like the NERB) and geared lifting would be left out in the cold. That people wish to fork out money to lift a weight (even if it's 100 kilos) is absolutely up to them.

[gazza]

I personally think any gear even a belt or knee raps is cheating you should be able to do whatever it is with the tools god gave you people say oh i need knee raps cause my knees hurt when i squat tough shit strengthen em by squatting properly etc.

I feel hypercritical saying the above statement when alot of us are bending with all sorts of wrapping etc like someone said egos take over and the public want to see freakish lifts and bends etc i would be quite happy if we were all bending useing just ironmind wraps it would still take the biggest or shortest bend to win shure there would be alot less bigger bends being knocked out but the best benders would should still be were they are now the same with geared meets etc the strongest should still be the strongest if everyone was useing no gear or equipment.

If you go back far enough long before the roids and equipment took over there must have been real men somewhere doing lifts unassisted you might have to go back a good ways but i bet there was a time when real men lifted and performed with just what god gave them.

[The Mac]

So people lifting today, with gear/wraps, are not real men?

[mobsterone]

That was my first thought. Doesn't matter if they are good fathers etc just the use of a suit... and so on. A better turn of phrase is real lifters.

That said Gazza admits to some foot in mouth when he says as much by using pads. At an OHF do a few years back I was told 'my dad used to bend nails bare handed', as I used my usual torn, thin and crappy towel. I replied 'is he here?', the said 'no', I say 'phew otherwise it'd be embarrassing'. Crowd laughs, nails bend, success ensured.

[jad]

I did my first PL meet in 1991. Just a DL meet, I was a non-dieted 198 (bwt 187). Back then I didn't have a suit, and opened with a 465 DL (and almost fell off the platform backwards when pulled it so fast - lots of first timer adrenaline). One of the experienced lifters let me borrow a Z-suit. He was a 242. I didn't notice any change, but maybe a little more adrenaline, they got me my first ammonia cap, too. My PR prior to that meet was 495, I pulled 535. I bought a Marathon Supersuit & an Inzer Blast shirt, both were too big. The Marathon suit was perfect when I was about 215. The shirt never gave me more than 10-20 lbs, and I think that was more contest adrenaline. I never put the gear on in training.

The most I got out of gear was an Inzer HD shirt (the first level above the basic Blast Shirt). I got 445 in a comp when I'd never finished a 405 in the gym. I have a wide flat chest & very long arms, so I get a lot out of the shirt, usually if I can get it moving, my tri's will finish it. The shirt gets it moving. I have no doubt at all that I could get 600+ if I got a Fury or Rage type shirt, and I still suck at raw benching, 415 double & 375 for 5 are my best sets. All I need is a good spring at the start & I can lock a LOT.

The top benchers are getting 300+ out of shirts, which is a joke. Same with squats. I think Kirk K & maybe Eddie are of the few approaching 1000 raw, I'm not up to date, though, on PL. I bet there's not a handful of 900 plus raw guys, but there's dozens of 1000, 1100, 1200 squatters geared. Again, crap.

I liked Eddie (definitely a hero of mine) before I ever met him, as most of his DL's were in a singlet, not a suit. 900+ in a singlet & belt, at 220. That's a pull. His favorite wraps were Marathon Double Goldlines (which are nothing compared to today's wraps), I gave him his last new pair. He wore single ply suits, and his best (according to him, it was actually his second best, but he felt it was his best) ever squat was in a ratty, four year old suit that was full of runs. Eddie never got the hang of shirts, though, he'd only get 20 lbs or so out of them, he hated shirts.

When you get down to it, the strongest guys out will be the strongest in, but in the middle, stronger ungeared or lightly geared guys will many times be beaten by weaker heavily geared guys. I was almost beaten by a guy at a meet many years ago that hit an 830 squat on a pair of briefs, half suit, and double ply canvas (watched him get shoehorned into it), then he benched 385, and pulled low 500 range, I think 530. He couldn't get into the hole with 800.

Josh-

If you want to do some fun, just throw a decent shirt on, make sure you have experienced guys to help you into it, I'll bet with a mid level shirt you'll throw on 50-75 lbs over your max. We should have tried one on you after the BBB, I've got a couple that would fit you I bet.

Sounds like a hoot! Maybe next year

[EricMilfeld]

I agree, Rex. I only wish there were raw meets in my area. The idea of raw lifting just doesn't seem to be catching on.

I talked to a 300 pound guy yesterday who competes in strongman and powerlifting who claims to get at leat 50 pounds out of his deadlift suit. I've tried several and always get a consistent 15 pounds. I wear it only to be more competitive relative to the other guys. But the fact that others might be getting triple or more what I get from a suit is a little disturbing. I think it might have to do with the fact that I'm very strong off the floor to begin with, which is the portion of the lift most affected by the suit.

[The Natural]

I liked Eddie (definitely a hero of mine) before I ever met him, as most of his DL's were in a singlet, not a suit. 900+ in a singlet & belt, at 220. That's a pull. His favorite wraps were Marathon Double Goldlines (which are nothing compared to today's wraps), I gave him his last new pair. He wore single ply suits, and his best (according to him, it was actually his second best, but he felt it was his best) ever squat was in a ratty, four year old suit that was full of runs. Eddie never got the hang of shirts, though, he'd only get 20 lbs or so out of them, he hated shirts.

Yeah man. Coan is a hero to just about everyone. Definitely one of the few powerlifters who will be remembered forever.

I love Coan's insistence on powerlifters walking out the weight on the squat. It's always struck me as strange how powerlifters will whine about having to walk out an 800 pound squat, but strongmen will walk 100 feet with an 800 pound yoke. I told that to the last powerlifter who complained about having to walk out the weight, and he just gave me a thoughtful stare.

-Rex

Edited November 5, 2008 by The Natural

[thearm95]

In light of all this Paul Anderson's truly raw (not even wraps or belt) 1175-1200 squats are surely the best ever and may never be equalled - even if they were high they were no higher than the monolifted + fully geared 1100 - 1200 lifts on youtube. The 'silver dollar' squat pic in Randall's bio of Anderson shows him at the low position where the depth looks pretty good.

[mobsterone]

He didn't do that weight. Read Joe Roark's Iron History site. The best weight they might have been was 900 and that's about the right side of the best raw.

[shizen]

I personally think any gear even a belt or knee raps is cheating you should be able to do whatever it is with the tools god gave you people say oh i need knee raps cause my knees hurt when i squat tough shit strengthen em by squatting properly etc.

I feel hypercritical saying the above statement when alot of us are bending with all sorts of wrapping etc like someone said egos take over and the public want to see freakish lifts and bends etc i would be quite happy if we were all bending useing just ironmind wraps it would still take the biggest or shortest bend to win shure there would be alot less bigger bends being knocked out but the best benders would should still be were they are now the same with geared meets etc the strongest should still be the strongest if everyone was useing no gear or equipment.

If you go back far enough long before the roids and equipment took over there must have been real men somewhere doing lifts unassisted you might have to go back a good ways but i bet there was a time when real men lifted and performed with just what god gave them.

I agree but this 'sport' of powerlifting has evolved now and with it gear has been implemented. You can choose to be apart of it, but then you have to follow the rules or you can be like most people and just lift for yourself and be strong for yourself.

[MalachiMcMullen]

I personally think any gear even a belt or knee raps is cheating you should be able to do whatever it is with the tools god gave you people say oh i need knee raps cause my knees hurt when i squat tough shit strengthen em by squatting properly etc.

I feel hypercritical saying the above statement when alot of us are bending with all sorts of wrapping etc like someone said egos take over and the public want to see freakish lifts and bends etc i would be quite happy if we were all bending useing just ironmind wraps it would still take the biggest or shortest bend to win shure there would be alot less bigger bends being knocked out but the best benders would should still be were they are now the same with geared meets etc the strongest should still be the strongest if everyone was useing no gear or equipment.

If you go back far enough long before the roids and equipment took over there must have been real men somewhere doing lifts unassisted you might have to go back a good ways but i bet there was a time when real men lifted and performed with just what god gave them.

Exactly why I bend with single leathers on occasion(when my fingers aren't split open : ).

Ed Coan was the man, and always will be in my book. I honestly don't think raw lifting will be the most popular part of powerlifting. As Gaz pointed out, it's similar to bending with the wraps. I was a stubborn single pad bender for months until I tried some doubles... I never looked back. A RED nail cert is certainly in my future, but I will always be using double pads more often I think. I greatly respect those who are strongest with gear, because they are the strongest without in most cases, but I just can't watch them anymore. I can only shake my head, look at the # and look away. It's just sad the state of powerlifting anymore.

[thearm95]

He didn't do that weight. Read Joe Roark's Iron History site. The best weight they might have been was 900 and that's about the right side of the best raw.

Thanks Steve I'll have to join up on that site when I get home - looks interesting. A Joe Roark article I found elsewhere states the silver dollar barbell was weighed publicly at 1000lb and that Anderson squatted it on three separate lifts on performance nights.

But yes I (and Randy and Anderson's contemporaries quoted in the biography - they say 1175 - 1200) may be wrong - even the Roark article may be apocryphal as regards the 1000lbs and with the weightlifting game being as open to gross exaggeration as anecdotes relating to any other human pursuit we'll never really know. But true or not - based on those legs alone I can still believe 1200

Randall's bio is still worth a read though - great pics and descriptions of Anderson's lifts - it was so interesting I read it all in one sitting!

[mobsterone]

As an aside. Back when I was at school (aged 15) a mate there had a dad who worked in a press cuttings library. I nagged him to get his dad to get me every cutting (or copies natch) of Paul. In my youthful stupidity I lost them all but I, when I still had them, had LOADS! As you say he was built to squat.

[The Mac]

I liked Eddie (definitely a hero of mine) before I ever met him, as most of his DL's were in a singlet, not a suit. 900+ in a singlet & belt, at 220. That's a pull. His favorite wraps were Marathon Double Goldlines (which are nothing compared to today's wraps), I gave him his last new pair. He wore single ply suits, and his best (according to him, it was actually his second best, but he felt it was his best) ever squat was in a ratty, four year old suit that was full of runs. Eddie never got the hang of shirts, though, he'd only get 20 lbs or so out of them, he hated shirts.

Yeah man. Coan is a hero to just about everyone. Definitely one of the few powerlifters who will be remembered forever.

I love Coan's insistence on powerlifters walking out the weight on the squat. It's always struck me as strange how powerlifters will whine about having to walk out an 800 pound squat, but strongmen will walk 100 feet with an 800 pound yoke. I told that to the last powerlifter who complained about having to walk out the weight, and he just gave me a thoughtful stare.

-Rex

Centre of Gravity would explain much of that I think. I'd love to see Strongmen do a walk with 800lb barbell.

Anderson was a great squatter, and the fact that he won an Olympic Gold on so little training speaks massive amounts for him, far more so than the lies and hyperbole that surround him.

[The Natural]

Centre of Gravity would explain much of that I think. I'd love to see Strongmen do a walk with 800lb barbell.

You miss the point. Strongmen walk out all of their squats in training. Going one foot with an 800 barbell is child's play after you do lots of yoke work. Their bodies are conditioned to do it. They don't whine and bitch like a powerlifter.

-Rex

[The Mac]

But, as you would say, what's the point in risking an injury by doing one thing (yoke walk) when there's no need to do it for another (equipped squatting)?

Personally I agree that squats should be walked out - but then I also think that the barbell should be taken out of the rack by the lifter during the Bench Press. I can, however, appreciate that not everyone would feel the same, and that the squat should be about squatting not walking out and that the bench should be about pressing not unracking.

[thearm95]

As an aside. Back when I was at school (aged 15) a mate there had a dad who worked in a press cuttings library. I nagged him to get his dad to get me every cutting (or copies natch) of Paul. In my youthful stupidity I lost them all but I, when I still had them, had LOADS! As you say he was built to squat.

Bummer - ages ago I lost a decent pile of old 'Strength Athlete' mags in a similar way - they had heaps of good articles on Capes, JPS, Kaz + historical stuff - me just being completely disorganised when moving house

[MRabich]

December 6th I'm doing my first meet, it's the eastern barbell on Long Island and I'm going raw. I did buy a single ply suit (top quality suit from a sponsored lifter) cause I got it very cheaply, and I intend to buy more and double ply. Bottom line it's very hard to find decent competition in the raw lifting divisions. In the SSA Asylum Power meet conducted about 3 weeks ago the winner in 198 lb class raw only totaled 1060 lbs. It's not that nobody can do a better total it's that good lifters compete with gear.

[raymo]

The ADFPF which is mostly around the Midwest has raw and assisted division the good thing about there assisted division is only single ply shirts and singlets and no groove briefs, they are also drug free and very strict on there judging, almost to much so. I don't mind assisted lifting as long as the lifter who gets 250 pounds out of his $250 opened back grid stitch shirt who his two week fling single mother girlfriend bought for him doesn't have a big ego about it. When I first started powerlifting I was in the 242 weight class and I had an Inzer Z suit singlet which worked good. Last year I used it for a competition at 265 and boy was it tight. It worked good for squats but boy did it give me a head rush when I would get down to deadlift I maybe got 20 pounds on deadlift and 30 on squats. Benching I only had an Inzer heavy duty extra performance shirt and I only got 35 pounds out of it. After going to a meet in April and getting blown away by all open back lifters I decided to go raw for quite a while. I might break out the deadlift suit again but not the tight one I have one a little bit bigger now.

[the swiss]

So here I am about to return another deadlift suit because it doesn't fit. Restocking fee, and it's going to cost me too much for comfort. And I got to thinking about all of the reasons why I have had it with equipped powerlifting:

1) The suits and shirts are overpriced.

2) It takes a long time to find equipment that fits. Even more time to adjust to the equipment.

3) It allows weak people to compete with strong people. I know a guy who can't bench 225 raw, and he gets 360 in competition with a shirt. Sad.

4) Related to 3), it gives people with a loser-mentality an excuse for missing a lift. "My shirt wasn't tight enough". "My suit straps were too far in". Yada yada. A lifter should risk more and give himself as few excuses to lose as possible. That means lifting raw, where there is no equipment excuse available.

Anyway, fed up with it. I'm lifting raw in the WABDL meet. Tired of playing the silly equipment game.

-Rex

I understand completely, and would personally do the same.

But, isn't this slightly incoherent with your general attitude and opinions about winning, gamesmanship, etc...?

Isn't saying "I don't care what others lift, I only compete to break PRs" a "loser's excuse" as you'd maybe put it?

[The Natural]

So here I am about to return another deadlift suit because it doesn't fit. Restocking fee, and it's going to cost me too much for comfort. And I got to thinking about all of the reasons why I have had it with equipped powerlifting:

1) The suits and shirts are overpriced.

2) It takes a long time to find equipment that fits. Even more time to adjust to the equipment.

3) It allows weak people to compete with strong people. I know a guy who can't bench 225 raw, and he gets 360 in competition with a shirt. Sad.

4) Related to 3), it gives people with a loser-mentality an excuse for missing a lift. "My shirt wasn't tight enough". "My suit straps were too far in". Yada yada. A lifter should risk more and give himself as few excuses to lose as possible. That means lifting raw, where there is no equipment excuse available.

Anyway, fed up with it. I'm lifting raw in the WABDL meet. Tired of playing the silly equipment game.

-Rex

I understand completely, and would personally do the same.

But, isn't this slightly incoherent with your general attitude and opinions about winning, gamesmanship, etc...?

Isn't saying "I don't care what others lift, I only compete to break PRs" a "loser's excuse" as you'd maybe put it?

I think it would be for sure if the person were lying to himself. E.g. he doubts his ability to beat Joe Schmoe (who has just finished his last attempt and is ahead by ten pounds), and so instead of going for the win, he tells people "Oh, I'm just going for a personal record." That is some serious loser-dom. He knows damn well he just doesn't have the guts to risk going for the win.

But suppose I happen to end up competing against a bunch of guys who all pull over 800. I know I'm not going to get that at the Worlds. In this case, I don't think it's being a loser to just go for a PR.

Also, the sword cuts both ways. I may have been training for a big PR, but instead of going for it on my third attempt, I do a little less than the PR, but still enough to win the competition. Even though you win, and you are focusing on your competition first and foremost, it still is doubt and a loser mentality that your mindset embodies.

It boils down to who you are wanting to compete against the most--yourself or your competition. You can be a doubter and/or a coward in either case.

-Rex

[John Beatty]

I liked Eddie (definitely a hero of mine) before I ever met him, as most of his DL's were in a singlet, not a suit. 900+ in a singlet & belt, at 220. That's a pull. His favorite wraps were Marathon Double Goldlines (which are nothing compared to today's wraps), I gave him his last new pair. He wore single ply suits, and his best (according to him, it was actually his second best, but he felt it was his best) ever squat was in a ratty, four year old suit that was full of runs. Eddie never got the hang of shirts, though, he'd only get 20 lbs or so out of them, he hated shirts.

Yeah man. Coan is a hero to just about everyone. Definitely one of the few powerlifters who will be remembered forever.

I love Coan's insistence on powerlifters walking out the weight on the squat. It's always struck me as strange how powerlifters will whine about having to walk out an 800 pound squat, but strongmen will walk 100 feet with an 800 pound yoke. I told that to the last powerlifter who complained about having to walk out the weight, and he just gave me a thoughtful stare.

-Rex

Centre of Gravity would explain much of that I think. I'd love to see Strongmen do a walk with 800lb barbell.

Anderson was a great squatter, and the fact that he won an Olympic Gold on so little training speaks massive amounts for him, far more so than the lies and hyperbole that surround him.

The first Yoke walk I ever did had a bar with all the weights at shoulder level, and basically it was just a bar with a tripod on each side to hold it up. It was at one of the Back Alley Challenges at Chad Coy's gym. I went a whopping 25 feet (I think I weighed a massive 230 then), a couple of guys finished, and Chad did the run in about 20 sec. I'd never tried Yoke before that day, but the next time I did yoke with that same apparatus, I finished the course. It's very doable. Strongmen walk with 1200lb yokes in Odd's meets, as the 4th leg of a yoke medley, 900 for 25 feet, 1000 for 25, 1100 for 25, 1200 for 25. 800 isn't bad to walk with on the yoke, I generally don't even wear a belt for 800. I've been at meets that more than one competitor took 800lbs 100 feet in under 10 seconds. Chad Smith did it once in 7.9 sec, I think, I know Schoonveld had done it in under 10 sec a number of times. Now 10-12 sec is commonplace in am meets.

Edited November 6, 2008 by John Beatty