My Complaints About Equipped Powerlifting

[The Natural]

So here I am about to return another deadlift suit because it doesn't fit. Restocking fee, and it's going to cost me too much for comfort. And I got to thinking about all of the reasons why I have had it with equipped powerlifting:

1) The suits and shirts are overpriced.

2) It takes a long time to find equipment that fits. Even more time to adjust to the equipment.

3) It allows weak people to compete with strong people. I know a guy who can't bench 225 raw, and he gets 360 in competition with a shirt. Sad.

4) Related to 3), it gives people with a loser-mentality an excuse for missing a lift. "My shirt wasn't tight enough". "My suit straps were too far in". Yada yada. A lifter should risk more and give himself as few excuses to lose as possible. That means lifting raw, where there is no equipment excuse available.

Anyway, fed up with it. I'm lifting raw in the WABDL meet. Tired of playing the silly equipment game.

-Rex

[MalachiMcMullen]

But REX! Equipment is for safety! Equipment is your friend! Equipment lets you lift more weight! Equipment this! Equipment that! EQUIPMENT EQUIPMENT EQUIPMENT!!!!!

It has gotten to the point where guys aren't lifting the weight anymore. For a lot of guys who learn how to use equipment better and better, instead of getting stronger, they newer, tighter equipment. Too much time and effort is put into those damned things anyway in both training and learning them.

That being said, if I were going to go into powerlifting, I'd learn to use equipment for bigger meets(single ply at most), and still lift in the occasional raw meets since the competition is usually poor.

Edited November 3, 2008 by MalachiMcMullen

[The Natural]

But REX! Equipment is for safety! Equipment is your friend! Equipment lets you lift more weight! Equipment this! Equipment that! EQUIPMENT EQUIPMENT EQUIPMENT!!!!!

It has gotten to the point where guys aren't lifting the weight anymore. For a lot of guys who learn how to use equipment better and better, instead of getting stronger, they newer, tighter equipment. Too much time and effort is put into those damned things anyway in both training and learning them.

That being said, if I were going to go into powerlifting, I'd learn to use equipment for bigger meets(single ply at most), and still lift in the occasional raw meets since the competition is usually poor.

Yeah. I had two powerlifters call me yesterday--each conversation lasting over 20 minutes--to talk about which kind of suit I was going to use, etc. I told them I wasn't going to use one. They seemed disheartened.

As for your last point, that's a valid strategy, but I don't care what my competitors are lifting really. I'm always shooting for a personal goal. When I lift 650 raw in two weeks, that someone might beat me with a 680 equipped lift wouldn't take away from my joy in the least.

-Rex

[climber511]

The good thing about the gear is that the manufacturers do put a lot of their money back into promoting meets - it's one of the reasons the sport has grown the way it has. I remember when PL meets were about like grip is today - mostly in garages and HS gymnasiums - the crowds like to watch the freak shows with the huge weights and huge people - just visit the Arnold. I had a talk with Louie Simmons about this - his response - just be honest about what you do - if someone says "what do you bench" - tell them but include that you wore a shirt etc. Both sides know you can't compare a raw, clean lifter to a juiced, geared lifter (or some combination of those). Make your choice and go enjoy yourself - the gear - no gear argument has been done to death on every PL site I have visited and it's one nobody can win. The one time I tried a buddies bench shirt - by the time I (we - three of us) got it on - I was too tired to bench and my wife thought I'd been in a fight with wolves when I got home from all the hickies.

All that said, training in a loose pair of briefs etc can help with long term hip health especially if you are a wide stance sit way back style squatter.

[menace3000]

Majority of feds are to the point of rediculous:

#1 monolifts so no need for walking out squats anymore. For anyone who has done a walkout, they know this is almost as hard as the actual squats.

#2 judging is often affected by the weight attempted rather than the merit of the actual lift or the agreed upon rules

#3 people rely on their gear rather than their own physical strength

#4 new mentality of if you're not strong enough to match a feat than you're not worthy of criticizing something you perceive as rediculous or unfair

I believe the only geared organization that still has any credibility left is IPF. Though tested raw fed would be my choice.

Belts: They help compensate for weak core however they are fairly basic equipment that is acceptable at most lifting comps(powerlifting/strongman/highland/etc).

Knee Sleeves/Wraps: I think light sleeves or wraps are fine for keeping knees warm and stable but I am against the ones that are so thick and wrapped so tight that the person can hardly walk in order to add another 50-100lb to the squat...

Singlets: I dont think they are necessary but a light singlet that doesnt add more than a little bit to a total are fine if it helps the lifter feel safer.

The double, triple, canvas, briefs, suits, etc...are imho are a joke that add hundreds of pounds to a total that a lifter has no business lifting.

[MalachiMcMullen]

The double, triple, canvas, briefs, suits, etc...are imho are a joke that add hundreds of pounds to a total that a lifter has no business lifting.

And as a result, safety is compromised. Kind of ironic when you take into account shirts came about as a safety measure. People use more weight than they can properly control and end up snapping their arms off. I've seen a few videos to that effect on YouTube and IronScene.

[The Natural]

I had a talk with Louie Simmons about this - his response - just be honest about what you do - if someone says "what do you bench" - tell them but include that you wore a shirt etc.

The honesty is appreciated, but most lifters fail to reveal enough information. E.g.

Lifter #1: He uses IPF approved equipment only, takes low dosages of drugs mainly for recovery, and has an "enhanced"/equipped max that is only 250 pounds higher than his raw/natural max.

Lifter #2: He uses double ply everything, extremely long wraps, etc., and takes as many drugs as the average IFBB pro. In fact, though he won't ever reveal this, his "enhanced"/equipped max is 500 pounds higher than his raw/natural max.

Both lifters, when asked about what they use, could truthfully say "Oh, yeah. I use equipment and drugs". But it's lifter #2, in my opinion, who has the burden of revealing just HOW MUCH he's using.

So saying that you use equipment and so forth is nice as far as honesty goes, but most of the time it's less than perfect honesty. This is one of the reasons I have always admired Ed Coan. In interviews, he'll just spell out everything he used. It's not just honesty; it's complete honesty. Big difference.

If those Westside guys were really honest, they'd reveal just how many pounds the stuff helps them on the total. But they don't. Like most lifters, they reveal so little that you can't tell whether they are like Lifter #1 or Lifter #2.

-Rex

[The Natural]

#4 new mentality of if you're not strong enough to match a feat than you're not worthy of criticizing something you perceive as rediculous or unfair

Yeah. This sort of thing has always been very interesting to me. At root, it's a confusion between truth conditions and assertability conditions.

E.g. a smoker tells another smoker "You shouldn't smoke. It's bad for you."

As far as truth and evidence goes, he gets a +. He is right and justified in saying that.

But as far as assertability, many think that he fails. There's a 'hypocrisy condition' that most people believe exists, and the smoker violates it. So he has no right to assert the truth.

The emergence of this new norm on powerlifting forums etc.--the weakness condition, let's call it--is similar.

Weakling: "His form is horrible."

And it's true. The guy's form is horrible.

But because he's weak, he can't speak the truth.

Sometimes I'm inclined to think that assertability conditions are completely unjustified, and that hypocrites are fully in the clear (as well as weaklings) in speaking the truth. Other times it does seem inappropriate for e.g. someone who can't squat his bodyweight to criticize WPO lifters for not going parallel. Just haven't made up my mind.

Like an old coach of mine said,

"Don't do as I do! Do I say do!"

-Rex

Edited November 3, 2008 by The Natural

[climber511]

If those Westside guys were really honest, they'd reveal just how many pounds the stuff helps them on the total. But they don't. Like most lifters, they reveal so little that you can't tell whether they are like Lifter #1 or Lifter #2.

Actually Rex - when I talked to them in person at the gym - they were extremely forthcoming with their personal information - brutally honest in fact. Perhaps because I was vouched for by a member - I don't know - at Westside I don't think there are any lifter #1s. Of course they have to be careful when talking to just anyone out there on the streets. Call Louie, make a visit - you might be surprised.

[The Natural]

If those Westside guys were really honest, they'd reveal just how many pounds the stuff helps them on the total. But they don't. Like most lifters, they reveal so little that you can't tell whether they are like Lifter #1 or Lifter #2.

Actually Rex - when I talked to them in person at the gym - they were extremely forthcoming with their personal information - brutally honest in fact. Perhaps because I was vouched for by a member - I don't know - at Westside I don't think there are any lifter #1s. Of course they have to be careful when talking to just anyone out there on the streets. Call Louie, make a visit - you might be surprised.

I train with two guys who make annual visits to Westside, one of them a top USAPL lifter. They regaled me with several stories about the # of "plys" involved in the workouts.

"So you're wearing a double?"

"Yeah."

"Briefs?"

"Yeah, briefs always."

"Just normal ones or?"

"Double ply."

An comfortable feeling settles over the monolift. You can tell the Westside guys all want to scream "But the lifter is doing the work!" Had to pry it out of them. Just say "Yes, I use FOUR--that's right--FOUR plys." Tell all. Right up front.

-Rex

[TKtheGreek]

i cant stand bench shirts i think they are total bullshit, the raw record is like 715 and the bench shirted record is like 1050, i mean comon gimme a break. I dont see the purpose in them, why were they created to boost egos?

[The Natural]

i cant stand bench shirts i think they are total bullshit, the raw record is like 715 and the bench shirted record is like 1050, i mean comon gimme a break. I dont see the purpose in them, why were they created to boost egos?

Originally for safety, but eventually for the typical American way of doing things: bigger is better no matter how you do it.

-Rex

[shizen]

So here I am about to return another deadlift suit because it doesn't fit. Restocking fee, and it's going to cost me too much for comfort. And I got to thinking about all of the reasons why I have had it with equipped powerlifting:

1) The suits and shirts are overpriced.

2) It takes a long time to find equipment that fits. Even more time to adjust to the equipment.

3) It allows weak people to compete with strong people. I know a guy who can't bench 225 raw, and he gets 360 in competition with a shirt. Sad.

4) Related to 3), it gives people with a loser-mentality an excuse for missing a lift. "My shirt wasn't tight enough". "My suit straps were too far in". Yada yada. A lifter should risk more and give himself as few excuses to lose as possible. That means lifting raw, where there is no equipment excuse available.

Anyway, fed up with it. I'm lifting raw in the WABDL meet. Tired of playing the silly equipment game.

-Rex

1. The suits are a bit overpriced but the amount of carryover they can give is worth it-most only 100 bucks though-

2. It helps a lot if you train with other powerlifters so they can give you a good idea of what type of suit to get ext and help you out with it. Also to post measurements on powerlifting forums to get suggestions on what to buy before hand.

3. The strongest people in gear still are the strongest people without. Its a sport it evolves with the times.

4. Some people will always find an excuse why they did not do well, you need to be one of those who says 'I messed up and I will do better next time'

Again its your choice not to lift with equipment they have federations for that.

I find USAPL/IPF to be the two best federations out there. Very strict judging, not that much equipment, and best athletes. Its a sport and RAW has never existed in powerlifting. Back in day they would have 2 pairs of jean shorts too tight and some tennis balls wrapped behind there knees. The idea of RAW lifting is relatively new to the sport. I mean even gear is coming into strongman, its inevitable progress. You can either choose to get better with it, or stay behind. They do help a lot in safety also-like wraps, belt ext-

[The Natural]

Its a sport and RAW has never existed in powerlifting. Back in day they would have 2 pairs of jean shorts too tight and some tennis balls wrapped behind there knees.

Can anyone else back this up? I see a lot of YouTube videos that suggest otherwise. Did Pat Casey use tennis balls?

-Rex

[climber511]

Rex - like every sport under the sun - Power Lifting is no different - people were and are always looking for the advantage. People tried some strange things over the years to try and lift more weight. Tennis balls, tight blue jeans, then 2 pairs of stiff Carhart shorts. There was "equipment" being used long before it had a name. Guy finds a loophole in the rules, tries new thing - they make a new rule - guys try something else, another new rule - pretty soon it's a lot harder to beat the rules - so then we start a new federation with rules we like - and so on and on we go. Yes, tennis balls were tried - or so I remember reading anyway way back when. But early on there was some incredible lifting done in good style as shown in some of the old videos and pictures that are out there still.

Edited November 3, 2008 by climber511

[barbe705]

I got the cheapest squat suit from inzer when my back started to bother me. I didn't notice an improvement in my lifts but, my back/core did seem to get some extra support out of it. It was single ply and I bet most guys would consider it loose. I guess if I was interested in really getting the most out of equipment I'd try to find several guys and see if I could try the stuff on? find a store that stocks it? It's weird kind of thing. I can understand that once you start using it full time why it would be hard to get away from.

just out of curiosity, howl long do the west side guys spend in the gym. It seems like the stuff they use would be a lot harder to get into than the stuff I wore. Also, I might actually wear my suit for the one hand dead lift at gripmas. I really want to take care of my back these days.

brent

[The Natural]

I got the cheapest squat suit from inzer when my back started to bother me. I didn't notice an improvement in my lifts but, my back/core did seem to get some extra support out of it. It was single ply and I bet most guys would consider it loose. I guess if I was interested in really getting the most out of equipment I'd try to find several guys and see if I could try the stuff on? find a store that stocks it? It's weird kind of thing. I can understand that once you start using it full time why it would be hard to get away from.

just out of curiosity, howl long do the west side guys spend in the gym. It seems like the stuff they use would be a lot harder to get into than the stuff I wore. Also, I might actually wear my suit for the one hand dead lift at gripmas. I really want to take care of my back these days.

brent

Yeah, with each piece of equipment added, the less the stabilizers need to be developed. I wish they'd just start doing competitions with a Smith Machine. It would be more honest.

-Rex

[jad]

I don't really understand the equipped thing but I think the strongest guys still win. It's not like I could put on a triple-ply whatever and add 200# to my bench. I'm sure it still takes a lot work.

[menace3000]

Strongest guys in gear are among the strongest guys without gear but it all depends.

Honestly anything but the thinnest of knee sleeves to keep knees warm are gear. Belts like inzer add like 50 lb to a squat because they can compensate for weak cores that many powerlifters have.

Bench shirts compensate for the weak off the chest strength that powerlifters have in bench press.

Briefs and Suits compensate for the bottom of the squat that's the toughest part of the ROM in the exercise.

The only exercise that's still semi-legit is the deadlift because the gear companies have not found a way to get gear to increase the geared deadlift by a huge amount as with other two lifts. Deadlift suits add 50-100 lb? relatively speaking that's nothing compared to 300-400 lb with squat and bench.

Edited November 4, 2008 by menace3000

[The Natural]

I don't really understand the equipped thing but I think the strongest guys still win. It's not like I could put on a triple-ply whatever and add 200# to my bench. I'm sure it still takes a lot work.

You'd be surprised, Josh. The guy I mentioned earlier--who can't do two plates on bench raw but can do 360 with a shirt--spends an inordinate amount of time "tweaking" his gear etc. Now compare him to some guy who doesn't spend much time on gear, but rather (and as it should be) spends most of his time LIFTING. Well, he might have a 300 raw bench, and his shirt only adds 40 pounds.

In this case, the weaker lifter wins out over the stronger lifter. This happens all the time in powerlifting, but especially so for the bench event. There are some lifters who spend more time tweaking their gear than they spend actually moving iron.

-Rex

P.S. Let me add that Ken Anderson, who is the #1 distributor for Titan, is a friend of mine, and talking to him has given me an idea of just how RIDICULOUS the top powerlifters are when it comes to "tweaking" their gear. I had dinner with Ken in Alabama back in April, and that man could not finish his steak without getting 3 or 4 calls from powerlifters who wanted to "tweak" their shirts/suits a bit more, get a new shirt/suit, etc. It is truly amazing.

Edited November 4, 2008 by The Natural

[jad]

I don't really understand the equipped thing but I think the strongest guys still win. It's not like I could put on a triple-ply whatever and add 200# to my bench. I'm sure it still takes a lot work.

You'd be surprised, Josh. The guy I mentioned earlier--who can't do two plates on bench raw but can do 360 with a shirt--spends an inordinate amount of time "tweaking" his gear etc. Now compare him to some guy who doesn't spend much time on gear, but rather (and as it should be) spends most of his time LIFTING. Well, he might have a 300 raw bench, and his shirt only adds 40 pounds.

In this case, the weaker lifter wins out over the stronger lifter. This happens all the time in powerlifting, but especially so for the bench event. There are some lifters who spend more time tweaking their gear than they spend actually moving iron.

-Rex

P.S. Let me add that Ken Anderson, who is the #1 distributor for Titan, is a friend of mine, and talking to him has given me an idea of just how RIDICULOUS the top powerlifters are when it comes to "tweaking" their gear. I had dinner with Ken in Alabama back in April, and that man could not finish his steak without getting 3 or 4 calls from powerlifters who wanted to "tweak" their shirts/suits a bit more, get a new shirt/suit, etc. It is truly amazing.

That's pretty interesting. Maybe I'll get to try a bench shirt at one of these comps some day. Thanks for the info.

Josh

[John4cars]

In another post regarding the best raw or assisted bench I ready all of the posts and had come to the impression that a basic denim or single ply bench shirt might help me be able to start benching again and to help with injury prevention. I haven't benched in about 14 years because of 5 shoulder surgeries etc. I just started benching a few weeks ago with very light weight. It sounds like maybe I shouldn't by a bench shirt after all but just use lighter weight and slowly rebuild a base.

[barbe705]

My understanding is that most bench shirts take a couple of people to put on. That would stop me from getting into it right there. I think it took about 5 minutes to get into my squat suit. that includes taking off my shoes and putting them back on.

[The Natural]

My understanding is that most bench shirts take a couple of people to put on. That would stop me from getting into it right there. I think it took about 5 minutes to get into my squat suit. that includes taking off my shoes and putting them back on.

Oh yes. Equipped lifting is not for a proud man. You will have to humiliate yourself in the act of putting on the damn things. I've seen the darndest things happen behind the scenes of powerlifting meets as it regards putting on or taking off equipment. Skin shaving, wrapping your arms in trash bags, hanging from any available ledge, branch, bar, or whatever you can find. Grown men kicking their legs wildly as they attempt to get deeper into the suit, screaming of the pain that comes from the skin around he groin behind torn. It is not a pretty sight. I was fortunate in being able to put on my suits by myself.

-Rex

[jad]

My understanding is that most bench shirts take a couple of people to put on. That would stop me from getting into it right there. I think it took about 5 minutes to get into my squat suit. that includes taking off my shoes and putting them back on.

Oh yes. Equipped lifting is not for a proud man. You will have to humiliate yourself in the act of putting on the damn things. I've seen the darndest things happen behind the scenes of powerlifting meets as it regards putting on or taking off equipment. Skin shaving, wrapping your arms in trash bags, hanging from any available ledge, branch, bar, or whatever you can find. Grown men kicking their legs wildly as they attempt to get deeper into the suit, screaming of the pain that comes from the skin around he groin behind torn. It is not a pretty sight. I was fortunate in being able to put on my suits by myself.

-Rex

Oh the hell with that!