Squats - One Of The King Exercises

[nickr104]

I would say that everyone should learn to do OHS. One of the best core movements you can do. I do a rotation of all 3 squats in my workouts.

[matthcarl]

Zach's comments sound good. I forget where I saw it, but I read an article called "Third World Squats" advocating going rock bottom, and based it on physiology...where in many third world countries people squat for long periods of time comfortably. It was interesting, and was when I started doing ATG squats as opposed to parallel. I did have to use less weight at first, and I think that saved me from any injury or knee pain.

[MalachiMcMullen]

If you did 20 rep front squats do you think you'd still get the test boost/recovery?

I seem to be posting a lot in this thread It would stimulate you the same way, especially since it forces you to go lower, but the bar would slip and slide around in the racked position and it might compromise the back. That being said, I've done them and I like them. My vastus medialis didn't like them though. But they adjusted

Amen Nick!!! OHS RULE!!!

[nickr104]

I would stick to back squats for 20 rep work. This is just me , but I think it is easier for your front squat form to barke down when trying to push high reps.

[climber511]

For what it’s worth

Back Squat

Front Squat

OH Squat

Jump Squat

Rotate the styles for complete development

Even sissy squat once in a while maybe

Don't forget lunges and especially side lunges for complete development

Single side work is important - especially for sports

Squat Deep

Deep is relative depending on leg size – don’t allow calf and hamstring contact to “pry” open the knee joint if you cannot relax those posterior muscle groups

Don’t relax in the rock bottom Position – same as above

20 is not high reps – depends on the weight used and the purpose of the workout – 20 reppers can be brutal or a cake walk

For a change of pace try back squatting 100# for 100 straight reps clear to the bottom – great DOMS and cardio

High rep front squats can cause shoulder, elbow and wrist problems for some – be careful

If you get tired and your squat form breaks down into a good morning – STOP

Anytime it breaks down into a good morning – stop unless that is the object of that workout – figure out why it’s happening and what can be done about it

If you don’t feel anything at all in your glutes doing full squats – assess your movement patterns and firing order – your butt should be working when you squat

There is nothing wrong with Oly style – athletic style – or sit back style squats – a lot depends on what fits you and your goals best. Your personal lever lengths etc will determine how you squat to a large degree. Everyone is not capable of the classic upright back etc

Don’t forget your body has hamstrings and calves – give them some direct work too

[MalachiMcMullen]

For what it’s worth

Back Squat

Front Squat

OH Squat

Jump Squat

Rotate the styles for complete development

Even sissy squat once in a while maybe

Don't forget lunges and especially side lunges for complete development

Single side work is important - especially for sports

Squat Deep

Deep is relative depending on leg size – don’t allow calf and hamstring contact to “pry” open the knee joint if you cannot relax those posterior muscle groups

Don’t relax in the rock bottom Position – same as above

20 is not high reps – depends on the weight used and the purpose of the workout – 20 reppers can be brutal or a cake walk

For a change of pace try back squatting 100# for 100 straight reps clear to the bottom – great DOMS and cardio

High rep front squats can cause shoulder, elbow and wrist problems for some – be careful

If you get tired and your squat form breaks down into a good morning – STOP

Anytime it breaks down into a good morning – stop unless that is the object of that workout – figure out why it’s happening and what can be done about it

If you don’t feel anything at all in your glutes doing full squats – assess your movement patterns and firing order – your butt should be working when you squat

There is nothing wrong with Oly style – athletic style – or sit back style squats – a lot depends on what fits you and your goals best. Your personal lever lengths etc will determine how you squat to a large degree. Everyone is not capable of the classic upright back etc

Don’t forget your body has hamstrings and calves – give them some direct work too

^^^Knowledge gained from experience=WISDOM^^^

I might also add, STRETCH EVERYDAY AFTER YOUR WORKOUTS. So many people end up with tight backs and hips because they never stretch. How many times have you heard someone say something like "Ah my back hurts. The joys of getting older I guess."? I'll bet you that same person can't sit down on the floor, legs straight out in front of them and their back against a wall without feeling a stretch.

[Chris Mathison]

If your looking for a program there are alot of good 3-lift and squat worksheets on this site http://www.joeskopec.com/programs.html. Try Smolov. Put your squat max in the Smolov program and check out what it expects of you in the next few weeks.

[carlsipes]

High rep front squats can cause shoulder, elbow and wrist problems for some – be careful

Front squats with kettlebells can be a good answer to these problems.

[timiacobucci]

High rep front squats can cause shoulder, elbow and wrist problems for some – be careful

Front squats with kettlebells can be a good answer to these problems.

I don't have much access to 150+ lbs kbs. I haven't even seen dumbells that big in a long time. Not to mention I think my shoulder might rip out trying to clean 1 kb that heavy let alone 2.

Overhead squats really make you see how far off from physiologically "correct" squat movement you are, because the bar will fall if you lean either way or round your back. But I personally can't go heavy enough on those to work my legs and hips well because the weight is too light or my arms give out.

That is weird about your knee doing that Rex. Why did you use a narrow stance? I have always felt very wrong squatting with my feet close together. Even full depth front squats I still have my feet as wide as some people's power squats.

One thing I don't think that has been mentioned is heavy partial squats. How do you guys feel about these? Would only going 1/4 squat still load up your knees like stopping at parallel? Or how about very heavy lockouts? I don't have enough weight or a rack or other equipment to try it but I would like to sometime.

Also on the high rep squat thing, I tried doing as many full depth bodyweight squats one time and got to 250. I was messed up for a few weeks and I think I gave myself Rhabdo from it. I was pissing brown for a while. This was a few weeks after coming off the 20 rep program, which I pushed very hard on and threw up often so I didn't puss out on it like you might think. So yes 20 rep is not high rep, and work up to very high rep range if you are going to try that because even if you think you have enough squatting experience like I did, it is a different ballgame.

[MalachiMcMullen]

One thing I don't think that has been mentioned is heavy partial squats. How do you guys feel about these? Would only going 1/4 squat still load up your knees like stopping at parallel? Or how about very heavy lockouts? I don't have enough weight or a rack or other equipment to try it but I would like to sometime.

I haven't read anything about this but I think there is a cut-off point where a certain depth will still transfer the weight through the knees safely, but any further and the musculature of the knees take over. That depth might be somewhere just north of parallel for most guys and probably depends upon the individual's proportions. That could be completely wrong but it makes sense to me.

[The Natural]

That is weird about your knee doing that Rex. Why did you use a narrow stance? I have always felt very wrong squatting with my feet close together. Even full depth front squats I still have my feet as wide as some people's power squats.

Yeah. After reading this thread, I decided to try narrow stance, rock-bottom squats on my squat day.

The results were not good. There was some severe pronation of my right foot towards the bottom of the squat. The outer edge of my foot was coming off the ground nearly an inch.

So that's the end of my time with narrow stance squatting. Fun while it lasted, I guess.

And yes, my front squats are wide too, a little wider than shoulder width apart. I don't go narrower than that.

-Rex

[nickr104]

High rep front squats can cause shoulder, elbow and wrist problems for some – be careful

Front squats with kettlebells can be a good answer to these problems.

I don't have much access to 150+ lbs kbs. I haven't even seen dumbells that big in a long time. Not to mention I think my shoulder might rip out trying to clean 1 kb that heavy let alone 2.

Overhead squats really make you see how far off from physiologically "correct" squat movement you are, because the bar will fall if you lean either way or round your back. But I personally can't go heavy enough on those to work my legs and hips well because the weight is too light or my arms give out.

That is weird about your knee doing that Rex. Why did you use a narrow stance? I have always felt very wrong squatting with my feet close together. Even full depth front squats I still have my feet as wide as some people's power squats.

One thing I don't think that has been mentioned is heavy partial squats. How do you guys feel about these? Would only going 1/4 squat still load up your knees like stopping at parallel? Or how about very heavy lockouts? I don't have enough weight or a rack or other equipment to try it but I would like to sometime.

Also on the high rep squat thing, I tried doing as many full depth bodyweight squats one time and got to 250. I was messed up for a few weeks and I think I gave myself Rhabdo from it. I was pissing brown for a while. This was a few weeks after coming off the 20 rep program, which I pushed very hard on and threw up often so I didn't puss out on it like you might think. So yes 20 rep is not high rep, and work up to very high rep range if you are going to try that because even if you think you have enough squatting experience like I did, it is a different ballgame.

I think Lockouts and partials can be good in moderation. If you do them to much I think you would be asking for problems.

[shizen]

If your looking for a program there are alot of good 3-lift and squat worksheets on this site http://www.joeskopec.com/programs.html. Try Smolov. Put your squat max in the Smolov program and check out what it expects of you in the next few weeks.

just want to say that I did the WHOLE 13 week program-intro, base, switching, intense- of smolov for the olympic front squat in summer, and it was the most brutal thing I have ever done. I started to get severe mental exhaustion near the end of it-feeling very lethargic, irritable, ext- as well as body starting to give up on me. During the program had one long red line across my shoulders where bar was held. My knees did start to get a little sore, but it was more for grinding out really hard reps as my body started to give up and my knees would go little inward still nothing serious.

The results from that program were unbelievable though-partly due to the fact I had to eat so much just to finish workouts so I gained some weight, yet not much fat- To give you an idea, at start my olympic front squat was 320lb, at the end I hit 385 fairly easily-all beltless- I didn't eat super well before my max out day, so I felt I probably have gone heavier. Not to mention didn't try anything above 385 since that was my goal.

It was a great program to build mental toughness, It also helped with my form a lot as well as getting me much stronger. I probably wont do the whole thing again, but I might do the first 3 week program-base meso- again later.

Edited September 20, 2008 by shizen

[Jacobs86]

Zach's comments sound good. I forget where I saw it, but I read an article called "Third World Squats" advocating going rock bottom, and based it on physiology...where in many third world countries people squat for long periods of time comfortably. It was interesting, and was when I started doing ATG squats as opposed to parallel. I did have to use less weight at first, and I think that saved me from any injury or knee pain.

same here. I prefer front squats though - long body, long legs, doesn't make for good back squattin'

[shizen]

Zach's comments sound good. I forget where I saw it, but I read an article called "Third World Squats" advocating going rock bottom, and based it on physiology...where in many third world countries people squat for long periods of time comfortably. It was interesting, and was when I started doing ATG squats as opposed to parallel. I did have to use less weight at first, and I think that saved me from any injury or knee pain.

same here. I prefer front squats though - long body, long legs, doesn't make for good back squattin'

That shouldn't be an excuse not to back squat though, I also have very long legs and torso yet I can back squat well and can asian squat without a bar. It took me longer then some people but you have to find a way, improving hip flexibility is the best way. Though I understand where your coming from also, I like front squats better because of the less strain it puts on my lower back. Magnus samulson also someone with very long legs and torso prefers front squats also. I wish I had his strength in front squat though repping over 500lbs easily in it.

[The Natural]

Zach's comments sound good. I forget where I saw it, but I read an article called "Third World Squats" advocating going rock bottom, and based it on physiology...where in many third world countries people squat for long periods of time comfortably. It was interesting, and was when I started doing ATG squats as opposed to parallel. I did have to use less weight at first, and I think that saved me from any injury or knee pain.

same here. I prefer front squats though - long body, long legs, doesn't make for good back squattin'

That shouldn't be an excuse not to back squat though, I also have very long legs and torso yet I can back squat well and can asian squat without a bar. It took me longer then some people but you have to find a way, improving hip flexibility is the best way. Though I understand where your coming from also, I like front squats better because of the less strain it puts on my lower back. Magnus samulson also someone with very long legs and torso prefers front squats also. I wish I had his strength in front squat though repping over 500lbs easily in it.

For a long time I had a problem with the back squats and depth. The depth would not be consistent, I didn't feel I would go deep enough every time. But I knew I needed to do them. So I tried pause back squats in the rack. I set the supports so that I knew I was hitting parallel EVERY rep. I also was able to drop the weight (because of the pause making it harder) while still getting lots of strength from the training. This helped me not get so run down week after week.

I recommend them highly. Pro-strongman Bryan Neese is a big fan of them too (I started doing them after reading an article he wrote). It can be found here:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mdlabs11.htm

-Rex

[MalachiMcMullen]

Zach's comments sound good. I forget where I saw it, but I read an article called "Third World Squats" advocating going rock bottom, and based it on physiology...where in many third world countries people squat for long periods of time comfortably. It was interesting, and was when I started doing ATG squats as opposed to parallel. I did have to use less weight at first, and I think that saved me from any injury or knee pain.

same here. I prefer front squats though - long body, long legs, doesn't make for good back squattin'

That shouldn't be an excuse not to back squat though, I also have very long legs and torso yet I can back squat well and can asian squat without a bar. It took me longer then some people but you have to find a way, improving hip flexibility is the best way. Though I understand where your coming from also, I like front squats better because of the less strain it puts on my lower back. Magnus samulson also someone with very long legs and torso prefers front squats also. I wish I had his strength in front squat though repping over 500lbs easily in it.

For a long time I had a problem with the back squats and depth. The depth would not be consistent, I didn't feel I would go deep enough every time. But I knew I needed to do them. So I tried pause back squats in the rack. I set the supports so that I knew I was hitting parallel EVERY rep. I also was able to drop the weight (because of the pause making it harder) while still getting lots of strength from the training. This helped me not get so run down week after week.

I recommend them highly. Pro-strongman Bryan Neese is a big fan of them too (I started doing them after reading an article he wrote). It can be found here:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mdlabs11.htm

-Rex

It's funny you mention that Rex! Chris Rice pointed out a video of Dan John to me awhile back for RDL form and in it, Dan explains how to increase anyone's flexibility(and as a result, depth) in the rock bottom squat position immensely in seconds. He also talks about doing bottom position front squats and how they are one of the best things for explosive strength, not just for OLY lifters either. He said his OLY #'s went up shortly after he got the bottom position front squat #'s into the mid-high 200's(bear in mind Dan has done over 310 in the snatch and 385 in the C&J). I might start doing those in a few weeks alongside my high rep sets.