Bill Piche Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Do em. They are deadlift builders too. My deadlift always followed my squat and not vice versa. Because they are so effective they can also be destructive when abused or done improperly. Always keep that in mind with the big effective exercises. If they are big mass builders and stimulators of the body, then they can also destroy the body and break it down. Back lifting and hip tuck with max weights are two ways to turn a productive squat exercise to the dark side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Knees were getting sore (probably due to some inadvertent poor form?) with regular suats and I switched to pause squats. Knee pain disappeared but the hamstrings are torched for about 3 days aftewards now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul valpreda Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I think that regardless of what sport or activity a person participates in, squats will make him or her better. I squat three times a week religiously. They must be performed correctly to be of benefit though, and that's why I do mine like the Bulgarians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 Knee pain can be due to excessive forward lean and not sitting back. I've also seen this due to bouncing in the bottom or twisting during descent or ascent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Knee pain can be due to excessive forward lean and not sitting back. I've also seen this due to bouncing in the bottom or twisting during descent or ascent. I was probably bouncing on some of the higher reps on the 20 reppers if I had to guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsipes Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Knees were getting sore (probably due to some inadvertent poor form?) with regular suats and I switched to pause squats. Knee pain disappeared but the hamstrings are torched for about 3 days aftewards now I think about spreading the floor apart with my feet when I squat. It really helps engage the hips and also keeps my knees in a good spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 A large majority of people who don't know what they are doing usually squat to parallel or, more often, well above it. Squatting to WPO parallel and higher puts massive stresses on the knees. MASSIVE STRESSES. Your knees end up taking the full brunt of the weight with high squats. As you can imagine, that's not good. Squatting to AT LEAST IPF Parallel transfers the stress safely from the knees to the hamstrings and glutes which can handle the stress. Your knees do not get destroyed doing full squats or OLY squats. I'm willing to bet my knees on it. I used to squat high before I knew what I was doing and my knees started aching late in the days following. I figured it would go away but it didn't. Long story short, I found a few things on the internet that made sense and pointed to full squats or IPF parallel squats and I haven't had a knee pain since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickr104 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 The back squat has always been the foundtion to my Strength training. When done right It is awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 A large majority of people who don't know what they are doing usually squat to parallel or, more often, well above it. Squatting to WPO parallel and higher puts massive stresses on the knees. MASSIVE STRESSES. Your knees end up taking the full brunt of the weight with high squats. As you can imagine, that's not good. Squatting to AT LEAST IPF Parallel transfers the stress safely from the knees to the hamstrings and glutes which can handle the stress. Your knees do not get destroyed doing full squats or OLY squats. I'm willing to bet my knees on it. I used to squat high before I knew what I was doing and my knees started aching late in the days following. I figured it would go away but it didn't. Long story short, I found a few things on the internet that made sense and pointed to full squats or IPF parallel squats and I haven't had a knee pain since. How does going lower save your knees? Don't you have to go through WPO to get to IPF/OLY? Thanks in advance. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 A large majority of people who don't know what they are doing usually squat to parallel or, more often, well above it. Squatting to WPO parallel and higher puts massive stresses on the knees. MASSIVE STRESSES. Your knees end up taking the full brunt of the weight with high squats. As you can imagine, that's not good. Squatting to AT LEAST IPF Parallel transfers the stress safely from the knees to the hamstrings and glutes which can handle the stress. Your knees do not get destroyed doing full squats or OLY squats. I'm willing to bet my knees on it. I used to squat high before I knew what I was doing and my knees started aching late in the days following. I figured it would go away but it didn't. Long story short, I found a few things on the internet that made sense and pointed to full squats or IPF parallel squats and I haven't had a knee pain since. How does going lower save your knees? Don't you have to go through WPO to get to IPF/OLY? Thanks in advance. Josh Yes, you have to pull through that but it's better than stopping right there. Your forcing the musculature around the knee to stop the weight when you stop at WPO height. When you move through it, your not putting as much stress on the joint and instead making your glutes and hams stop the weight. At least that's my understanding. It really has helped my knees get better and I don't even feel the aching I did when I was 16-17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 A large majority of people who don't know what they are doing usually squat to parallel or, more often, well above it. Squatting to WPO parallel and higher puts massive stresses on the knees. MASSIVE STRESSES. Your knees end up taking the full brunt of the weight with high squats. As you can imagine, that's not good. Squatting to AT LEAST IPF Parallel transfers the stress safely from the knees to the hamstrings and glutes which can handle the stress. Your knees do not get destroyed doing full squats or OLY squats. I'm willing to bet my knees on it. I used to squat high before I knew what I was doing and my knees started aching late in the days following. I figured it would go away but it didn't. Long story short, I found a few things on the internet that made sense and pointed to full squats or IPF parallel squats and I haven't had a knee pain since. How does going lower save your knees? Don't you have to go through WPO to get to IPF/OLY? Thanks in advance. Josh Yes, you have to pull through that but it's better than stopping right there. Your forcing the musculature around the knee to stop the weight when you stop at WPO height. When you move through it, your not putting as much stress on the joint and instead making your glutes and hams stop the weight. At least that's my understanding. It really has helped my knees get better and I don't even feel the aching I did when I was 16-17. That makes sense. Thanks Zach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 A large majority of people who don't know what they are doing usually squat to parallel or, more often, well above it. Squatting to WPO parallel and higher puts massive stresses on the knees. MASSIVE STRESSES. Your knees end up taking the full brunt of the weight with high squats. As you can imagine, that's not good. Squatting to AT LEAST IPF Parallel transfers the stress safely from the knees to the hamstrings and glutes which can handle the stress. Your knees do not get destroyed doing full squats or OLY squats. I'm willing to bet my knees on it. I used to squat high before I knew what I was doing and my knees started aching late in the days following. I figured it would go away but it didn't. Long story short, I found a few things on the internet that made sense and pointed to full squats or IPF parallel squats and I haven't had a knee pain since. How does going lower save your knees? Don't you have to go through WPO to get to IPF/OLY? Thanks in advance. Josh Yes, you have to pull through that but it's better than stopping right there. Your forcing the musculature around the knee to stop the weight when you stop at WPO height. When you move through it, your not putting as much stress on the joint and instead making your glutes and hams stop the weight. At least that's my understanding. It really has helped my knees get better and I don't even feel the aching I did when I was 16-17. That makes sense. Thanks Zach. It also promotes flexiblity For a lot of guys, like myself, they have more than enough flexibility to go as low as low goes. Why not strengthen yourself through the full ROM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 depth preferences aside, I like how after a good set of 20 reppers, even my upper back is sore the next day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 depth preferences aside, I like how after a good set of 20 reppers, even my upper back is sore the next day Amen. High rep squats rule!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymo Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 depth preferences aside, I like how after a good set of 20 reppers, even my upper back is sore the next day Amen. High rep squats rule!!!!! All this is so true and I have always squated atg style and my knees have never given me any problems at all of couse I am not a big squatter anyway but I keep getting stronger at 50 also. Just don't try to convince a gym owner about it or as Bill Starr said when I wrote and asked him about it don't waste your time arguing about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 depth preferences aside, I like how after a good set of 20 reppers, even my upper back is sore the next day Amen. High rep squats rule!!!!! All this is so true and I have always squated atg style and my knees have never given me any problems at all of couse I am not a big squatter anyway but I keep getting stronger at 50 also. Just don't try to convince a gym owner about it or as Bill Starr said when I wrote and asked him about it don't waste your time arguing about it. Haha, indeed. Very few people actually think going as low as possible is better for the knees. I've gotten into arguments with a few guys at the gym I used to squat at. They weren't having any of it. Durniat has a fantastic printout on his gym wall that explains the benefits in a quick and concise way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Knight Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 A large majority of people who don't know what they are doing usually squat to parallel or, more often, well above it. Squatting to WPO parallel and higher puts massive stresses on the knees. MASSIVE STRESSES. Your knees end up taking the full brunt of the weight with high squats. As you can imagine, that's not good. Squatting to AT LEAST IPF Parallel transfers the stress safely from the knees to the hamstrings and glutes which can handle the stress. Your knees do not get destroyed doing full squats or OLY squats. I'm willing to bet my knees on it. I used to squat high before I knew what I was doing and my knees started aching late in the days following. I figured it would go away but it didn't. Long story short, I found a few things on the internet that made sense and pointed to full squats or IPF parallel squats and I haven't had a knee pain since. How does going lower save your knees? Don't you have to go through WPO to get to IPF/OLY? Thanks in advance. Josh Josh - do you know your TLA's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 A large majority of people who don't know what they are doing usually squat to parallel or, more often, well above it. Squatting to WPO parallel and higher puts massive stresses on the knees. MASSIVE STRESSES. Your knees end up taking the full brunt of the weight with high squats. As you can imagine, that's not good. Squatting to AT LEAST IPF Parallel transfers the stress safely from the knees to the hamstrings and glutes which can handle the stress. Your knees do not get destroyed doing full squats or OLY squats. I'm willing to bet my knees on it. I used to squat high before I knew what I was doing and my knees started aching late in the days following. I figured it would go away but it didn't. Long story short, I found a few things on the internet that made sense and pointed to full squats or IPF parallel squats and I haven't had a knee pain since. How does going lower save your knees? Don't you have to go through WPO to get to IPF/OLY? Thanks in advance. Josh Josh - do you know your TLA's? Haha, gets me every time!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Zach, If you are able to find the articles that convinced you to switch to the full squat, I would be interested in reading them. Thanks, Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I just tried a no-weight full squat (narrow stance) in my hallway, holding door knobs for support. My left knee let out something akin to the firing of a .22 Short Rifle. -Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKtheGreek Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 what are the benfits of front squat vs back squats??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickr104 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Front squats use way more quads and core strength . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andurniat Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Squats are king. Front like nick said will hit the quads more and I feel it is easier to go to full depth in the front squat. I'll copy the Bill Starr print out for everyone about going deep. One thing about going deep though, make SURE you have the flexibility to go deep BEFORE you try going deep with weight. As Zach says, 'Train hard, but train SMART Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 (edited) Zach,If you are able to find the articles that convinced you to switch to the full squat, I would be interested in reading them. Thanks, Rex I'll see if I can dig them up. Ironically, most of them were on Bodybuilding.com The printout on Durniat's wall is a great motivator towards the full squat too. I'd much appreciate it Andrew!!! EDIT: You know what Rex? My older brother experiences the same exact thing when he squats as low as he can. I'm not sure what causes his or if it's the same thing but for him, it's purely a matter of flexibility. He can't do the Asian squat without falling down either Edited September 8, 2008 by MalachiMcMullen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 If you did 20 rep front squats do you think you'd still get the test boost/recovery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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