Top 50 Apollons Axle Do Dl List

[Incindium]

In strongman you use whatever random equipment the promoter can make, get his hands on or get for free from sponsors or whatever. Its not like there is a standard for axle stuff unless you are talking IFSA in which case they have their own custom equipment.

[Matt Brouse]

In strongman you use whatever random equipment the promoter can make, get his hands on or get for free from sponsors or whatever. Its not like there is a standard for axle stuff unless you are talking IFSA in which case they have their own custom equipment.

Yes, let me clarify. Few people get to train on the exact equipment in a particular contest. So you train with what you've got and everyone shows up and uses the same stuff on contest day. So maybe they have an axle event and use the Ironmind bar. I train with my schedule 80 pipe or whatever and deal with the fact that it might not be the same as the AA.

The point I am making is equipment is equipment. Sure, using the actual apparatus is helpfull but so is just plain being strong. Be strong enough to make the equipment a non-issue. As it should be.

[andurniat]

The point I am making is equipment is equipment. Sure, using the actual apparatus is helpfull but so is just plain being strong. Be strong enough to make the equipment a non-issue. As it should be.

:rock :rock Truth

[Hubgeezer]

Hmmm. Sounds like comparing apples to oranges here. So, I think I would compile a list of CONTEST ONLY (got to have some type of standard) lifts, and then designate the contraption that it was (Chris Rice Homemade solid bar, AA, smooth, etc).

I would tend not to worry about calibration if different devices were used.

Why is this the second mention of mine re "no calibration"? Because the current number one lift on Bob's list is Odd Haugen in 2006, I was there, and I'd just like to see it on the list. Nothing was calibrated that day.

I think to start, I would just start putting 350 or over that was done in contests. That would be a good start. I think there were a few others the day of Odd's deal, one for certain. I would be curious how many there would be at 350 or over.

[Bob Lipinski]

Mike, I just went up to a certain number for the list. I stopped the list where it started getting crowded. At 350 or less you'd get a big list. Nothing against you or that contest. I will expand my american list soon, and if you still have questions just let me know.

I've have not made calibration a requirement on my list yet; I liken it to state powerlifting records, where the weights are rarely calibrated. Any questions, comments, or concerns on the American list let me know.

On IM axle as official equipment, I will go with the flow here. Again, we need some more big promoters to enter in the discussion. My initial thought is that any bar within certain tolerances will be good enough, but I can go with the flow.

[climber511]

Axle record list thoughts

Mike’s (Hubgeezers) thoughts on something “loose” is something I’m going to have to disagree with. Records without strict rules are just gym lifts. Sorry buddy! There’s no question though that the Strongman guys could probably “be” the big league on this lift. But we’re not claiming to be anything but the Gripboard records list – to be on our records list, you would have to follow our rules just like any other organization – well if we had any! All kinds of organizations have record lists, and I believe ours are valid for what we do – but only in those cases where we have laid down a set of rules to follow. And those rules are always going to change over time.

Equipment used – the IM Axle is a piece of DOM tubing with an actual 2” outside diameter with stops welded on and the ends turned down to 1.95” so the better plates will fit. It is the same length as a standard Oly bar – making an exact copy of it is pretty easy to do if you have access to a machine shop – at least here in the states but IMs price is close enough that it’s not a big deal to just buy the real thing. Most homemade bars are normally 1 ½” pipe and have a 1.9” OD which can and does vary a few hundreds at times. It does make a big difference! One thing I feel we should address here is that the Euros will not have easy access to this size steel and also that while IM will certainly sell and send them one – it will cost a bunch. They (the Euros) have metric steel - 1.968” for 50mm – perhaps that could also be recognized as well. Technically it would be easier I guess but at this stage of the game, I think it would not matter – when this issue came up back in the days of the V-Bar wars things quickly got out of hand and I hope not to start something like that again even if it comes down to 2 separate lists. I have not tried a solid bar versus a hollow one so can’t comment on any differences – a hollow bar is easy enough to obtain that I think we should just stick with that. For the US I’d certainly just go with the IM Axle. Some discussion for the Euros would be good here. We will be seeing the use soon of the Americanized version of David’s metric Euro Pinch setup in contests I think – some concessions back and forth across the pond while not “necessary” are certainly practical and we should try to work together where possible – over time, the records themselves will tell us of any differences – it would be easy enough to keep track of records set with each size. If they are willing to allow records to be set on an “inch” measurement 2 HP, then I would be willing to accept records on the “Metric Axle” - at least in these beginning stages until we see what differences may or may not exist on all of them.

Height – use standard (45# or metric equivalent) size plates for record purposes – with my glass back – I really like the bar a couple inches higher but that introduces a variable that is too great I think for record purposes. Of course contest promoters would be free to use what they wish – just no records could be set is all.

The rule set that has been put together seems good to me so far and the sumo versus conventional doesn’t seem to have been any problem at those contests I have been to that allowed both. The use of a down signal – while no big deal is not really that different than good judgment being used by the referee in judging the lift anyway so either way is fine with me. A judge that is too fast or slow on the signal just introduces one more variable to deal with is all – kind of like having to wait for a down signal in 2 HP I guess.

A records list I think is a great idea – anything that encourages people to train hard, enter legitimate competitions, get stronger and be able to compare ourselves to others is a good thing. Any way that’s my 2 cents.

[burkhardmacht]

Axle record list thoughts

Mike’s (Hubgeezers) thoughts on something “loose” is something I’m going to have to disagree with. Records without strict rules are just gym lifts. Sorry buddy! There’s no question though that the Strongman guys could probably “be” the big league on this lift. But we’re not claiming to be anything but the Gripboard records list – to be on our records list, you would have to follow our rules just like any other organization – well if we had any! All kinds of organizations have record lists, and I believe ours are valid for what we do – but only in those cases where we have laid down a set of rules to follow. And those rules are always going to change over time.

Equipment used – the IM Axle is a piece of DOM tubing with an actual 2” outside diameter with stops welded on and the ends turned down to 1.95” so the better plates will fit. It is the same length as a standard Oly bar – making an exact copy of it is pretty easy to do if you have access to a machine shop – at least here in the states but IMs price is close enough that it’s not a big deal to just buy the real thing. Most homemade bars are normally 1 ½” pipe and have a 1.9” OD which can and does vary a few hundreds at times. It does make a big difference! One thing I feel we should address here is that the Euros will not have easy access to this size steel and also that while IM will certainly sell and send them one – it will cost a bunch. They (the Euros) have metric steel - 1.968” for 50mm – perhaps that could also be recognized as well. Technically it would be easier I guess but at this stage of the game, I think it would not matter – when this issue came up back in the days of the V-Bar wars things quickly got out of hand and I hope not to start something like that again even if it comes down to 2 separate lists. I have not tried a solid bar versus a hollow one so can’t comment on any differences – a hollow bar is easy enough to obtain that I think we should just stick with that. For the US I’d certainly just go with the IM Axle. Some discussion for the Euros would be good here. We will be seeing the use soon of the Americanized version of David’s metric Euro Pinch setup in contests I think – some concessions back and forth across the pond while not “necessary” are certainly practical and we should try to work together where possible – over time, the records themselves will tell us of any differences – it would be easy enough to keep track of records set with each size. If they are willing to allow records to be set on an “inch” measurement 2 HP, then I would be willing to accept records on the “Metric Axle” - at least in these beginning stages until we see what differences may or may not exist on all of them.

Height – use standard (45# or metric equivalent) size plates for record purposes – with my glass back – I really like the bar a couple inches higher but that introduces a variable that is too great I think for record purposes. Of course contest promoters would be free to use what they wish – just no records could be set is all.

The rule set that has been put together seems good to me so far and the sumo versus conventional doesn’t seem to have been any problem at those contests I have been to that allowed both. The use of a down signal – while no big deal is not really that different than good judgment being used by the referee in judging the lift anyway so either way is fine with me. A judge that is too fast or slow on the signal just introduces one more variable to deal with is all – kind of like having to wait for a down signal in 2 HP I guess.

A records list I think is a great idea – anything that encourages people to train hard, enter legitimate competitions, get stronger and be able to compare ourselves to others is a good thing. Any way that’s my 2 cents.

Good post! Thanks Chris! The use of an IM AA in Europe should not be the biggest problem. In Germany we have three IM AA minimum. We use an IM AA for the Euros - so no problem here. It would be cool if we start a list before the Euros and the GGC this year. Never thought that there would be so much to discuss!

[Hubgeezer]

Mike, I just went up to a certain number for the list. I stopped the list where it started getting crowded. At 350 or less you'd get a big list. Nothing against you or that contest. I will expand my american list soon, and if you still have questions just let me know.

On IM axle as official equipment, I will go with the flow here.

My mention of that contest is because I think there were a few "over 350s", including a guy who was not a strongman, grip guy, or power lifter (!!!) in that contest. Odd was #1 on your current list. The weights in that contest were not calibrated.

Now, to disagree with some others, I say why bother to calibrate if the equipment is going to vary so much? If you are going to calibrate, control all the variables ala Mikael with Two Hand Pinch or One Inch Vertical. If there are going to be mulitple variables, why are you bothering to "calibrate" when the whole thing is loosey goosey to begin with?

Bob is starting a list. That's great! I think if you use a cutoff of 350, with the limited number of grip contests that there have been, I don't think you will get to 50, including international. If you limit it to "grip contests", then that takes care of the whole "strongman" intrusion that would otherwise occur. I am sure there are hundreds of amateur strongman who can pull 350 on the AA.

I hate to admit this, but I have never deadlifted 350. I don't think I have ever tried. I did 324 on the AA in a contest once. This will not be a list that I will ever be on, so I don't have a dog in the fight...

Miguel

[barbe705]

how many strongman comps have DO axle? I thought that was pretty odd for them. I thought they did mixed grip by and large. I think if you take that into account there wouldn't be any need for a grip only list. I think it might be a bit harder to keep track of with all of the strongman comps that take place, if they do use DO.

calibrated plates: it seems like there's a trend towards calibrated plates for grip comps. At least the ones I've been to. So, I think that would mean that the bulk would be calibrated to begin with.

different axles. powerlifting uses different bars from meet to meet. As long as it's an axle of the proper dimensions I think it should be included. The same with highland games. we use many different brands of weights, and some homemade. As long as they fit the right length and weight they're legit. I don't think any companies equipment should be excluded. It's not an ironmind cert list, it's an axle record list.

brent

[bencrush]

Doesn't Beatty make a 2" bar too? Surely his would be allowed on such a list. I'm not stirring the pot, I actually don't remember if he sells one or not... and right now I'd rather type than go look it up on his website, lol.

[Scott Styles]

I have a 2" barbell from FBBC. It is solid, painted, and was cheaper than the Ironmind Axle delivered.

My understanding is the Ironmind axle is bare steel that can oxidize and has no finish. In my mind, that opens the same spector of seasoning that exists with v-bar. Given that, I do not think the variation found with other axles is significant enough to standardize on a single brand.

I think a metric allowance of 50mm is also a good idea, allthough it does not really impact me.

I still think tires are cool, but understand the resistance.

[Bob Lipinski]

Like strongman, I think grip records are going to be rather organic- As certain events gain or recede in popularity, different record lists will be kept. I think this is a good thing, a draw to both grip and strongman.

I would be in favor of setting specs rather than a certain brand.

Also, to respond to Mike, I have resisted calibrated weights for american records for some of the reasons you quote. In our stage of the sport, I liken American records to state records for powerlifting- Good fun, but nothing huge on the line.

I am all in favor of continuing the trend Mikael started for our top 50 lists, however.

[burkhardmacht]

I am all in favor of continuing the trend Mikael started for our top 50 lists, however.

That would be great! I can live with different brands of axles (no knurling) and even with non calibrated weights (when it's marked). Go for the list, Bob!

[Bob Lipinski]

Allright, give me a few days on this one and I will make a list.

So everyone is on the same page, my first list is with 45's and a down signal? I know how my comps were run, I think the gripmas ones did not use a down signal, I know Beatty's had tires. I do not know how Fulton's Super Grip, the old minnesota comps, or the arizona cactus grip were contested.

[burkhardmacht]

Allright, give me a few days on this one and I will make a list.

So everyone is on the same page, my first list is with 45's and a down signal? I know how my comps were run, I think the gripmas ones did not use a down signal, I know Beatty's had tires. I do not know how Fulton's Super Grip, the old minnesota comps, or the arizona cactus grip were contested.

Great, Bob! Thanks in advance!

So You include the old results too? I think that is cool! I can let You know about the German comps!

At the Euros we will have a down signal.

[The Mac]

Look forward to seeing the list Bob.

[climber511]

Bob Gripmas used my over sized 100# plates so it was elevated a couple inches I would guess without measuring it. Also no down signal was used. I'm glad to see things getting worked out now before this years event so all our lifts can be counted officially.

[Hubgeezer]

I know how my comps were run, I think the gripmas ones did not use a down signal, I know Beatty's had tires. I do not know how Fulton's Super Grip, the old minnesota comps, or the arizona cactus grip were contested.

The November 2006 comp in LA (Haugen's lift) had a down signal

[bencrush]

Allright, give me a few days on this one and I will make a list.

So everyone is on the same page, my first list is with 45's and a down signal? I know how my comps were run, I think the gripmas ones did not use a down signal, I know Beatty's had tires. I do not know how Fulton's Super Grip, the old minnesota comps, or the arizona cactus grip were contested.

I can't remember if the Super Grip had a down signal...I think it did but I'll have to ask Alan (AnimalCage) about that. I am saying I think it did because I remember pulling and then pausing at the top. But I don't know if I did that just because or because of the judge's call. I think the only Axle pulls that day that were hook gripped were Matt Graham's.

[mike landrich]

I'm telling you from experience Burkhard, solid bars loaded with plates are harder to lift than hollow bars.

I made other experiences 3 months ago when I did OHDL with a solid Axle. It rotated less than my IM Axle so I was a lot stronger. But for me it's ok when we use solid and hollow bars - it's just not optimal because it's simply not the same - The IM Axle seems to be more logical because it's accepted in Strongman comps.

I'm with Zach on this one for C+P, but for DL, I don't really think it makes a difference. If anyone thinks it makes a difference, come train with me. I have 1.9" hollow axles made from pipe, 2" hollow axles made from tubing and the 2" solid axle Zach mentioned. We'll do a side by side comparison. Same day, same plates, how more precise can an experiment get?

As for the axle being accepted in Strongman comps, NAS's rule for axles simply states "Axle diameters from 1.9” to 2.5” may be used", so IM is far from the only axle accepted.

[climber511]

I'm telling you from experience Burkhard, solid bars loaded with plates are harder to lift than hollow bars.

I made other experiences 3 months ago when I did OHDL with a solid Axle. It rotated less than my IM Axle so I was a lot stronger. But for me it's ok when we use solid and hollow bars - it's just not optimal because it's simply not the same - The IM Axle seems to be more logical because it's accepted in Strongman comps.

I'm with Zach on this one for C+P, but for DL, I don't really think it makes a difference. If anyone thinks it makes a difference, come train with me. I have 1.9" hollow axles made from pipe, 2" hollow axles made from tubing and the 2" solid axle Zach mentioned. We'll do a side by side comparison. Same day, same plates, how more precise can an experiment get?

As for the axle being accepted in Strongman comps, NAS's rule for axles simply states "Axle diameters from 1.9” to 2.5” may be used", so IM is far from the only axle accepted.

Mike Ive done the 1.9 pipe and 2" IM Axle side by side a bunch of times - it's between 5 and 10# every time for me - I can lift a bit more on the smaller diameter of the pipe bars. I've never had the chance to try a solid bar so can't comment on it - let us know what you find when you do your experiment please.

[mike landrich]

I'm telling you from experience Burkhard, solid bars loaded with plates are harder to lift than hollow bars.

I made other experiences 3 months ago when I did OHDL with a solid Axle. It rotated less than my IM Axle so I was a lot stronger. But for me it's ok when we use solid and hollow bars - it's just not optimal because it's simply not the same - The IM Axle seems to be more logical because it's accepted in Strongman comps.

I'm with Zach on this one for C+P, but for DL, I don't really think it makes a difference. If anyone thinks it makes a difference, come train with me. I have 1.9" hollow axles made from pipe, 2" hollow axles made from tubing and the 2" solid axle Zach mentioned. We'll do a side by side comparison. Same day, same plates, how more precise can an experiment get?

As for the axle being accepted in Strongman comps, NAS's rule for axles simply states "Axle diameters from 1.9” to 2.5” may be used", so IM is far from the only axle accepted.

Mike Ive done the 1.9 pipe and 2" IM Axle side by side a bunch of times - it's between 5 and 10# every time for me - I can lift a bit more on the smaller diameter of the pipe bars. I've never had the chance to try a solid bar so can't comment on it - let us know what you find when you do your experiment please.

Certainly I'll let you know, but another member of the board doing the same thing would be interesting, just to see if the results are the same.